[Intro music starts]
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Andrew: Today's MuggleNet podcast is brought to you by Borders. In May, thousands of Harry Potter fans descended upon New Orleans for the Phoenix Rising conference. Borders was there to take in the sights and share a lively discussion of the series that has bewitched the world with some of Harry's most dedicated fans. Listen and watch the action yourself, check out the Phoenix Rising Borders Bookclub Discussion at BordersMedia.com/HarryPotter, or click on the Borders banner at the top of the MuggleNet page.
[Show music starts]
Andrew: Because the spoiler warnings begin [gasps] right now, this is MuggleCast Episode 101 for July 22, 2007.
[Show music continues to play]
Andrew: Hi, everybody!
Andrew: Welcome to what's going to be our first of many, many, many episodes of MuggleCast where we are talking about the final Harry Potter book. We've all just finished. I was the last one to finish. I don't know where to start. First, we want to tell everyone - let's see, there's 130 people in here right now, the number is growing rapidly, so if you want to add your thoughts to this discussion, you can e-mail Jamie at staff dot MuggleNet dot com. He's got his e-mail open and he's raring to go with your thoughts and theories.
Jamie: Why don't we start off with a sort of simple, what did you think of the book? Since you just finished, Andrew, why don't you start us off?
Andrew: Okay. Well, I had to say... [laughs] ...I'm trying to think of it as my favorite book because there are so many twists and turns in this. I loved Dumbledore's explanation at the end about everything. The ending where Harry's pretending to be dead in Hagrid's arms was also very cool, and how he came back, and how he was addressing Voldemort as Tom Riddle. It was perfect.
Jamie: Yeah, especially because Dumbledore used to do that sort of [unintelligible], you know, growing up.
Andrew: Yeah, exactly.
Eric: That was very cool.
Laura: Well, it was sort of like the - I guess, with the transfer of the wand, I guess Harry - well, I'm not close enough to the computer, guys!
Laura: See, the problem here is that everybody's, like, keeping me away and I can't talk loud enough. Jamie, move your leg.
Eric: Yeah, we're keeping her away.
Andrew: There you go.
Laura: I can't sit down with your foot there, Jamie.
Laura: But I really - I sort of liked how the sort of the transfer of their - of Dumbledore's personality into Harry in the sense of not fearing Voldemort at all. In the sense of actually calling him Tom Riddle sort of came with the wand.
Laura: I thought it was fabulous.
Kevin: Well, you know what I loved? I loved when he was at King's Cross and there was the writhing child under the bench.
Kevin: And every time Harry would stick to it, and Dumbledore would go, "Don't worry about that, Harry, it's hopeless."
Jamie: That was a very weird scene.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Kevin: It was very strange, but when you...
Jamie: Going into the Lord of the Rings blinding light.
Kevin: When you realize that Harry gets - wakes up, and Voldemort is waking up at the same time, you know exactly who the writhing child...
Jamie: No, no, no, I completely agree, it's a very interesting scene, but it is a bit weird. It is extremely like Lord of the Rings, going to a different place where, you know...
Kevin: Oh, yeah.
Jamie: Going to a blinding light place where you don't know what's going on. It's very interesting.
Laura: But this whole book was like that. We saw so much stuff in this book that was completely unlike anything we've ever seen.
Jamie: Yeah, just like Grindelwald's prison. What was it called?
[Everyone tries to pronounce "Nurmengard"]
Andrew: But as soon as I said it aloud Jamie was like "Ah, they ripped it out of Lord of the Phoenix, Jo did."
Jamie: You mean Lord of the Rings.
Andrew: Lord of the Rings.
Jamie: Lord of the Phoenix. It's like a crossover thing they've planned, I can't wait.
Andrew: Order of the Rings, something like that.
Laura: I don't know, I don't think it sounds like that. I mean, Grindelwald, I mean, we're assuming he's of eastern European descent.
Andrew: I still have never read Lord of the Rings so I didn't get it.
Jamie: With a name like Gellert Grindelwald, probably, yeah.
Kevin: [laughs] Maybe.
Laura: Yeah, well, then that does sound like a very eastern European thing, so I'm not at all bugged by it.
Jamie: Oh no, no, I'm not bothered, I just think it does sound very Lord of the Rings-ish. It's a good thing.
Eric: The locket! The locket actually acted on Harry much like the ring would have acted on Frodo, at least if I recall correctly, for Lord of the Rings references anyway.
Kevin: Yeah, but I think it was more a parallel between the diary and the locket, not so much Lord of the Rings.
Kevin: In the same sense the diary acted on Ginny as the ring acted on Harry.
Eric: Well, I mean, the locket acted on everyone. They had to take turns wearing it, it was getting heavier, he could feel it tightening around his neck, that was just all - that reminded me of Lord of the Rings.
Kevin: Oh yeah, with the heavy and the...
Eric: Just in the way it behaved and everything. Of course once it was open, you know, then it was completely different then it was Jo's own thing, but yeah. So that was very interesting.
Jamie: We currently have 392 people in the room now, so thank you for those people you have just joined us recently.
Andrew: I was ready to be like, "Let's take a call live now!" But none of that.
Eric: Yeah, people...
Andrew: See, your Google notifier is saying there's quite a few e-mails coming in already.
Eric: Oh, wow.
Jamie: Let's have a look, let's have a look.
Andrew: Let's get to our first question now! I guess we'll talk about this later, but, like, Laura, you brought up none of the Department of Mysteries stuff was explained!
Eric: Yeah, and there's a lot of stuff that just didn't get in there.
Laura: Well, I mean, I was somewhat disappointed that we really didn't find out much about the Department of Mysteries at all, because that was supposed to be...
Andrew: That's like the Veil. We were counting on the Veil to really, like...
Kevin: And the room! Everyone was wondering about that room.
Laura: And it turned out to be the Great Hall.
Eric: What room?
Andrew: Oh, on the U.S. cover!
Andrew: I couldn't believe that was the... [laughs] ...that's not the Great Hall!
Kevin: That's not, yeah.
Laura: Am I the only one, though, that - I feel like the U.S. cover is slightly misleading?
Eric: Oh, incredibly.
Laura: It just made it like...
Eric: Well, we speculated for so long...
Eric: ...that they were using wandless magic...
Eric: ...and pulling things from the sky!
Andrew: Yes! It couldn't have been more misleading. Where was that?
Laura: Well, it was the point where the wand flew up in the air and they were both reaching for it.
Andrew: I thought - I had thought it might have been the scene when Harry first ran into Dumbledore, and then Voldemort was going to show up and break up their little discussion, and somehow that was going to look like that area. Because it didn't make sense otherwise.
Laura: Well, see, I figured that that whole scene was going to take place when Harry and Dumbledore were at the...
Andrew: Speak up. That's all I'm saying.
Laura: Okay, well, I figured that that, like you said, I think, we're kind of on the same wavelength here, that that whole scene on the front cover was actually going to take place whenever Harry and Dumbledore were speaking.
Andrew: Right, right, yeah, exactly.
Laura: So, it just, it - I think the U.S. cover is very misleading.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.
Kevin: It's a nice cover though.
Andrew: We based so much speculation off of that cover.
Laura: I know.
Eric: We did.
Andrew: The U.K. one, we were spot on, though, round of applause for us.
Kevin: Yeah, exactly.
Eric: Yeah, round of applause, spot on.
Jamie: Why don't we take a quick question now from Kayla, who wonders if any of us cried while reading the book.
Andrew: Oh, great question.
Jamie: And she says that she bawled like a baby when Fred died! Anyone else?
Laura: I didn't bawl, but a couple of tears did trickle down my face.
Andrew: It was funny because... [laughs] ...there were several moments this evening where Laura just bursted out, "What the - is going on!?" And I just had to die laughing 'cause I've been getting delirious, we haven't slept in so long. We've just been reading all day today. Seriously, that's all we've been doing today: reading, sleeping, and eating.
Laura: See, basically, here's my thing. I've been a long time supporter of the - again! Okay, I've been a long time supporter of the Harry-is-going-to-live thing, and whenever we thought Harry was going to die I got very upset, and I started crying, and I cried through the entire chapter. And Andrew sat there and laughed at me the whole time!
Andrew: Because it's so funny seeing you overreact - not overreact - react like this. [laughs] It was just hilarious! Like your voice was like: [makes high pitched crying noise]
Laura: [laughs] It was horrible.
Kevin: Well, you know what was funny? Eric, you got a little spoiled, and Eric knew that Harry was going to live. And what was happening was I had already read the book, so he was telling me on the street, you know, oh this is what's going to happen, and this was today, and I was trying to tell him that...
Eric: Because you already knew.
Kevin: Oh, I already knew, because I had read it last night, and the - what I was trying to tell him was, you know, it's a matter of perspective. So when he came to the part when Harry died, you should have seen the look he gave me.
Eric: I was like "what the...!"
Kevin: Because he was thinking, "Oh my God, I know someone told he me lived, but he just died!"
Kevin: And I'm like, "Yes!" I was victorious! [laughs]
Eric: Though I had noticed, though, that the chapter after that whole scene "The King's Cross" was like "The Flaw in the Plan," and lots of crap seemed to be going down. I mean, I wasn't reading ahead by any means, but every time a character bit the dust in the movie I - or in the book actually - I was just - I didn't know what to feel. I didn't cry necessarily, but there were some tearjerkers, I thought.
Andrew: I didn't feel much emotion either, not like...
Jamie: That, Andrew - that, Andrew, is because we are hard, hard, hard people.
Andrew: Well, like...
Laura: Really, Jamie?
Eric: We're hard people to break.
Eric: Podcasting has strengthened us.
Kevin: Yeah, but I think there was so much death.
Andrew: Yeah it was like eh...
Kevin: And you sort of removed yourself from it.
Andrew: ...another one bites the dust. [sings] And another one bites the dust.
Jamie: Although I have to say, last night at the release, emotion got the better of me, and I was bawling for quite a while.
Jamie: At the release I cried...
Laura: Yeah, Jamie and I both cried when we got the books in our hands.
Jamie: Yeah, I was like [makes fake crying voice.] "I can't believe it!"
Andrew: Yeah, it was building up for Jamie. It started like a slow "I can't believe this..."
Jamie: It did, it did.
Andrew: And then it went, "I can't believe this! I can't believe this!" and then [makes fake crying voice] "I can't believe this!" [Andrew laughs]
Laura: It was the same for me because I got it in my hands, and I got a little teary, but I was doing okay. And then I walk out and I see Jamie bawling, and I completely lost it.
Laura: I was just like, "okay, might as well let it all out."
Jamie: Yeah, I just couldn't take it, could not take it at all. 740 people in the room. Should we take another question?
Andrew: Yes! Blah!
Jamie: Shawn Quillman asked, "We were told in this book that someone would discover magic much later in life." Now two people have asked me this already, who was it?
Andrew: Now, I want to say - I don't want to say, but...
Laura: Say it.
Andrew: ...you have to think about Petunia because there's still that mystery shrouded around her. "Remember my last," and all that.
Eric: That's true.
Andrew: Petunia, as it turns out, wrote a letter to Albus, I guess it was...
Andrew: ...asking, can she be a part of the school? But I don't think she exhibited - that doesn't mean she exhibited magic...
Eric: But, like, apparently, like, did he tell her that she could or couldn't?
Laura: You know what, though? You know what, maybe? And this is just me. I almost think it was Dudley...
Andrew: Dudley changed.
Laura: ...because - but not in the literal sense - correct...
Laura: ...and Dudley viewed Harry saving his life from the Dementors as good magic, I guess, so...
Eric: Yeah, that was really interesting, in the beginning of the book.
Jamie: And are we all agreed that the thing that caused Dumbledore to trust Snape was his Patronus, right? The silver doe Patronus. It showed that he - because your Patronus can't lie, so it showed that he loved Lily, and, therefore, he was on the good side.
Laura: Yeah, that's the perspective I took.
Eric: Oh, that's interesting.
Kevin: Yeah, but he didn't show his Patronus until - you mean trusted him absolutely?
Kevin: Because I think he was already trusting him.
Jamie: Yeah, but don't forget we've heard throughout all the books that there was one thing specifically, which meant that Dumbledore trusted Snape completely. And we haven't - and she said it was going to come out in the seventh book.
Laura: But what was it? I'm trying to remember, because we really burned through this book.
Andrew: Love! Wasn't it love?
Laura: Yeah, it was love.
Jamie: No. No. No. No.
Kevin: I don't think it was the Patronus.
Jamie: No, but you can't just say it was love. There was something, one event, one thing that happened that caused them to do it.
Andrew: Because Snape gave Dumbledore his word...
Andrew: ...that he would protect Harry.
Laura: Yeah, you remember...
Andrew: To protect his love for Lily.
Eric: And Dumbledore gave Snape his word that he wasn't going to tell, no matter what, that he had made this arrangement with Snape. He said, "I'm hiding the best part of you. That you're committed to protecting the boy." And so that's why Dumbledore never answered any questions directly...
Eric: ...about why he, you know, trusted Snape.
Jamie: Here's an e-mail from Kelly who asked, "Talking about people who learn magically from life, what about Neville, who turned from someone who wasn't very competent in magic to somebody who was pretty clever?"
Kevin: I think that was awesome; Neville was awesome. And...
Kevin: What I liked about that, was Harry on a whim, on like a gut feeling, had told Neville to watch the snake...
Kevin: ...and Neville ended up being the one to pull the sword from the hat. He killed the snake, not Ron, or Hermione...
Jamie: It also shows how trustworthy he is that Harry told him what to do and to do it as soon as he could.
Kevin: And at great risk to his own life.
Jamie: Yeah. Absolutely great risks to his own life.
Kevin: Yeah, and...
Jamie: Go on.
Kevin: No, you.
Jamie: There are 914 people in the room now.
Andrew: Reminder, it's jamie at staff dot mugglenet dot com if you want to write in with your rebuttals, your theories that you have about this book, assuming you've all read it now. If you haven't read it now...
Jamie: Please turn off your iPods.
Andrew: Please proceed to hit Apple-W or Alt F4, whatever your nerdy [unintelligible] prompt requires.
Eric: Get out of the room.
Jamie: We're getting quite a few e-mails saying our camera is pointing at the ceiling.
Andrew: I didn't even know it was on.
Jamie: I don't think it is on. So perhaps...
Laura: Yes, it is. Apparently.
Kevin: Oh, yes, it is.
Andrew: You see "video: OFF" No, see this is a...
Jamie: "Show local video." Oh, yeah, server...
Eric: Oh yeah, there shouldn't be a video.
Kevin: Or maybe it's just showing this as the last image.
Andrew: Yeah, maybe it's just one print.
Jamie: ...can you see a light? Can you just see a light...
Eric: Is there a hand?
Jamie: Or a hand or something like that?
Eric: Is there now a hand?
Eric: I will keep this here until we get an e-mail.
Andrew: We're probably going to get 800 e-mails: "Yes."
Jamie: Yes, apparently people can see a light-bulb. Why...
Jamie: [unintelligible] say that...
Eric: What about a hand?
Eric: If they can...
Jamie: No, no, no.
Eric: ...just see a light-bulb, then it's just the still image of...
Andrew: Just wait a second.
Jamie: Just wait a second!
Andrew: But anyway...
Eric: Well, this is intriguing.
Andrew: Man. There's just so much to discuss!
Jamie: Can we talk about - can I talk about one thing?
Jamie: I just want to talk about Snape, very briefly, because I, unfortunately, got spoiled, and I read the epilogue, a part of the epilogue, which said that Snape was the bravest person that Harry had ever known, and I was expecting a lot more backstory on why he was the bravest person he had ever known. So, the flashback was very interesting, and it went part of the way to explaining it, but I was expecting a bit more.
Kevin: I think it was explained enough. And I think I said to you, Jamie, how much that epilogue really spoiled, because now that you've read it...
Kevin: ...you realize that Snape - you didn't know about Snape until the very last chapter.
Jamie: We didn't, no.
Laura: And I mean, I think everybody had a gut feeling that Snape was going to turn out to be good, but I had no idea all the backstory we were going to get on him.
Kevin: Oh, my God, yeah. And you know what was sickening? Realizing that he was looking in Harry's eyes because they looked like Lily's.
Laura: Lily's. Yeah.
Kevin: It was just gut wrenching. You're just sitting there...
Laura: It was awful. And it really spoke volumes to me whenever, you know, Snape was sort of talking about all the people he didn't want to know about his betrayal.
Jamie: Can I interrupt very quickly and say, thank you very much for all the hand e-mails.
Jamie: I've just refreshed the e-mail and there are about fifteen saying "Yes, we can see a hand." Please, please don't e-mail anymore.
Andrew: We can't fit everybody in the frame so it's kind of useless to tilt it down. I mean, Laura, you don't mind. Because Laura's sitting right in the view.
Laura: It's okay. We can rotate it, though.
Andrew: Tilt down. No, because then we're throwing out the placement of the mic, it's very awkward.
Jamie: Okay, there are now 1045 people in the room, and Michael...
Andrew: Good, now we're going to get another e-mail from Ustream shortly saying we're crashing their servers.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Jamie: Michael in Greenberg wants to know what Aberforth did to that goat, because that wasn't explained.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Jamie: Any ideas?
Andrew: What goat? I'm forgetting.
Laura: You know, I think it was left open for a reason. I think... [laughs] ...open for interpretation.
Jamie: There are some things...
Eric: I think so, too.
Jamie: ...that are left open for a reason.
Andrew: Oh hey, hold on.
Eric: Something the goat did in the Harry Potter books.
Jamie: What - Casey asked what was the significance in Lily's eyes in the end?
Kevin: Well, I think the significance was to Snape.
Laura: Yeah, Snape's love for Lily.
Kevin: Because that's what Snape yearned for.
Jamie: I was expecting that to be a bit more explicit, though. Absolutely right out, but I don't know.
Eric: Yeah, I completely agree.
Laura: You know, I was - go ahead, Eric.
Eric: What do you think of Harry's turned out family connections there? As we speculated back to...
Kevin: Oh yeah, that was interesting.
Andrew: What do you mean?
Eric: Well, people thought he was possibly the heir of Gryffindor or Dumbledore might end up being the heir of Gryffindor, or something else might happen. Well, Harry's lineage, he was related to the Peverells.
Jamie: What it just goes to show is that it is our choices, as Dumbledore said, because, you know, coming from the same bloodline, and Harry and Voldemort, two different people, very interesting.
Kevin: That is also something that I noticed she was contrasting, because Snape had the choice to go into Gryffindor, just as Harry did, but he chose Slytherin, even though the woman he loved went into Gryffindor. And he said, I think Dumbledore said, you know, I really think we should sort later.
Laura: Yeah, I love that.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eric: That was really interesting to speculate.
Kevin: Because if you think about it, if Snape hadn't become friends with Malfoy...
Kevin: Yeah, all of them. He probably would've been Harry's father.
Jamie: Here's a very, very, very interesting e-mail from Tilting Windward, who says, "One observation that may not be accurate is each of the Horcruxes is destroyed by a different person. Voldemort does Harry, Neville does Nagini, Hermione does the cup, Ron does the locket, Dumbledore does the ring, and deus ex machina does the diadem", which you know, which is like that fire that came from nowhere, just happened to destroy it, which is a lucky plot.
Kevin: Yeah, that is true.
Jamie: And they asked if this is relevant to the magic of the thing, and that Harry can't accomplish the task Dumbledore set him on his own and needs the help of people around him.
Eric: If that were true...
Kevin: Yes, I think so too.
Eric: I like that idea, especially because it is so cool that different people destroy everything, but the book for so long just focuses on the trio, and Kevin was telling me quite often that it was the trio's mission to do this, trio's mission - and then that alone, and so for most of the book I was just upset that there was, you know, this focus on Harry, Ron, and Hermione, which wasn't bad, but I wanted to see the other characters, I wanted to see Hogwarts, and there are so many brilliant characters in this world, I was a little upset that we didn't see most of, like - well, we did, because they all got killed. They all got killed. J.K. Rowling and her death stick just killed fifty-five to seventy people.
Kevin: Well, back to the Horcruxes, I think that it shows that Ron - or not Ron - Harry is the leader amongst everyone. No one would've destroyed the Horcruxes if it wasn't for Harry, but he rallied them together to accomplish the overall goal.
Eric: That was so cool.
Andrew: I was very surprised, though, how they ended up executing it all, going in a tent, living in all these places, I did not see that happening at all.
Laura: I didn't expect that at all, either.
Andrew: I was just expecting them to go into the deepest darkest places in the world and, like, uncover these Horcruxes, but it was like they were just chilling in a tent like tonight. Which was still - I mean, it was still a great read, but yeah.
Jamie: What I thought was absolutely awesome was the scene in "Godric's Hollow" when Dumbledore said, you know, you see a different kind of magic. Magic isn't only pointing your wand and allowing sparks to come out. So the Nagini acting as...
Andrew: Bathilda Bagshot.
Kevin: Oh. Yeah.
Jamie: ...Bathilda Bagshot was just brilliant.
Kevin: It was.
Jamie: We have had a couple of e-mails regarding the sword of Godric Gryffindor asking: how did Neville randomly have the sword if Griphook had taken it? How could he get it out of the hat?
Kevin: Because I think the hat had a magical link to the sword.
Laura: Yeah, and also remember...
Jamie: But then...
Laura: ...the ones who truly need it get it, remember? Just like Harry and the Chamber.
Jamie: Yeah, but it can't duplicate itself. So how did Griphook...
Kevin: Right. Right, but I think it would act like some link...
Eric: If the hat...
Kevin: ...for Gryffindors in need. Then, yeah.
Laura: And remember, Gryffindor was the one who enchanted the hat in the first place, so...
Kevin: And had possession of the sword for a long time.
Eric: And it's quite possible that the sword, as they said, was originally owned or, you know, was Godric Gryffindor's, wasn't stolen from the goblins.
Kevin: Oh, yeah.
Eric: They speculated that so like...
Laura: I think it probably was.
Eric: It could be rightfully Gryffindor's.
Andrew: Now the hat's gone though, isn't it? It's burned.
Jamie: Yeah, there will be no more sorting at Hogwarts.
Andrew: Well, no.
Eric and Kevin: No.
Kevin: Well, I don't think they really explained it, did they?
Andrew: They didn't. No, I'm just wondering now.
Laura: Well, that was Voldemort's thing, though. He said there would be no more sorting at Hogwarts. Everyone would be Slytherin...
Andrew: No, but I'm just saying, what are they going to do? Can they repair the hat? Can they get a new one?
Laura: But, you know, I think it was somewhat explained because Dumbledore, you know, we saw in that scene, he said, "I sometimes wonder if we should start sorting later."
Andrew: Well, who's going to tell that - is - you think Harry - okay, sorry.
Laura: Well, but remember in the epilogue, Harry told his son that it was his choice.
Laura: So I think that the...
Eric: The Sorting Hat takes into account...
Andrew: But he said he had never told one of his kids that before.
Andrew: So I mean, in his head it's his own choice, but even if the Sorting Hat has decided.
Eric: Right, but...
Laura: Oh! Connection lost, guys.
Eric: Standby while I attempt to reconnect. Just pause?
Jamie: We have a lot of questions to get through.
Andrew: Okay. I think we're...
Laura: Are we back?
Andrew: [announcer voice] And we're back!
Laura: Sorry, everybody.
Andrew: [announcer voice] Z-105!
Jamie: We have a lot - loads of e-mails coming in. Daniel wants to know, he thinks the "King's Cross/Harry's Head" chapter was a cop-out to fill in undesirable gaps in the story. You think that or not?
Eric: I kind of felt that way.
Jamie: I did a bit, as well.
Eric: Just a kind of way.
Andrew: Wait. What?
Eric: That's actually...
Jamie: Well, they didn't explain the - she didn't really explain the sort of theory behind it. Like, how could he talk to Dumbledore?
Jamie: Was he in a gap between the dead and the living? Or...
Kevin: Yeah. Well, I think they did because in my mind, it was exactly like what Voldemort experienced when he got separated from his own body, with the exception that Harry was good, had a false soul, and it wasn't complete agony for him.
Andrew: But at the end...
Kevin: He went in willingly.
Andrew: It almost made me feel like Jo realized, "Oh crap! I shouldn't have killed in Half-Blood Price, how am I going to get him back in to explain all this to Harry? How's Harry going to find all this information?" It felt that way because it was so random. Like out of the blue, he's talking to Dumbledore again. Then at the end of the chapter, Harry says, "Is this..."
Kevin: "Is this real?" Yeah.
Eric: "Or is it in my head?"
Eric: And it was so weird that Voldemort and Harry were both feeling - were both experiencing that, because Dumbledore replied, you know, it is in your head, but that doesn't mean it isn't real.
Eric: Or whatever. So...
Kevin: But that's the thing that I was thinking to myself. If Voldemort was the thing, you know...
Eric: Writhing on the floor.
Kevin: ...writhing on the floor. So, you have to wonder, is that where Voldemort went when he got separated from his body?
Eric: Into Harry's head?
Kevin: Not necessarily in his head or - because you don't know where he went. Perhaps Harry's head, but all I think is that maybe that's where Voldemort went and that's why it was so painful for him.
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