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[Intro music begins]
Andrew: Today's MuggleNet Podcast is brought to you by Borders. In May, thousands of Harry Potter fans descended upon New Orleans for a Phoenix Rising Conference. Borders was there to take in the sights, and share a lively disscussion of the series that has bewitched the world with some of Harry's most dedicated fans. Listen in or watch the action yourself. Check out the Phoenix Rising Borders Book Club Disscussion at BordersMedia.com/HarryPotter or click on the Borders Banner at the top of the Mugglenet page.
[Show music begins]
Jamie: Andrew's doing some technical stuff now. You ready?
Andrew: Yeah, sorry, sorry. We're ready to go. How's everyone doing today?
Andrew: Welcome to MuggleCast Live in Canton, Ohio.
Ben: What number is this?
Mikey: What number?
Andrew: It's not Cleveland. So it sounds like we hit a big town.
Mikey: No, it's Canton.
Andrew: How far away are we from Cleveland?
Audience Member: 60 miles.
Andrew: 60 miles? That's not too bad. It's the first outdoor podcast we've done.
Andrew: Ever. [laughs] And...
Emerson: Ben and I are veterans, Andrew. We...
Andrew: Oh, sorry, sorry, Spartz. I forgot.
Emerson: We did an event in Oak Park, Illinois, actually, where it was in front of four or five thousand people. It was outside; it was really cool. To be in front of a crowd that big is just one of those wonderful experiences that you don't forget.
Jamie: There's a picture of you on your Facebook where the camera's behind them and it's looking into the crowd, and he loves it because there's like a light on him and he looks like a rock star playing his guitar.
Emerson: Yeah, basically. I felt like one of the Remus Lupins for a second there.
Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]
Andrew: First of all, has anyone not finished reading Deathly Hallows?
Ben: Testing, testing.
Andrew: Because we are going to be discussing it today, so...
Jamie: You're going to be royally spoiled...
Andrew: As well as the people playing soccer back there; they're going to be royally spoiled if they...
Jamie: They look like Harry Potter fans to me, so they probably will be.
Andrew: I'm sure there's a few over there, Jamie. Anyway, there's been a lot of news lately. Of course there was a web-chat with J.K Rowling earlier today. So did anybody catch up on that? Yes? Okay, a couple of people. If you all went on MuggleNet before the show you would have caught up on the news. That's a good place to get the news.
Jamie: [microphone makes a strange noise] Oops.
Andrew: So there's been a few things Jamie, you found pretty interesting. You were really proud of some of the people in that web-chat because you were like, "Oh wow, these questions!"
Jamie: Oh, yeah. They asked some really good questions like...um...
[Andrew and Audience laugh]
Jamie: Can you pull it up, Andrew, and I'll...
Andrew: Oh, I'm pulling it up. I can't move far though.
Jamie: Okay. Um...
Emerson: We finally found that - Dudley's - what his worst memory was was when the...
Emerson: ...Dementor was on him, was that he was seeing himself who he really was for the first time, and it scared him.
Jamie: Yeah, and the one about Dumbledore's Boggart, as well, that it's his sister's corpse.
Andrew: His sister's.
Jamie: Arianna's corpse.
Emerson: And that Dumbledore's - when he looks into the Mirror of Erised, he sees his family, happy and together and alive.
Jamie: And you have to draw the Harry parallel there, because that's basically what Harry saw when he looked in. What other questions were there?
Andrew: Well, it was interesting that this was asked, because we had a little debate, "Is Snape a hero?" And someone directly posed that question to J.K. Rowling, basically said, "You think Snape was a hero?" and she said, "Yes, I do, though a very flawed hero. An anti-hero, perhaps." But he laid down his life for Harry, and J.K. Rowling says that's pretty heroic.
Jamie: He must be a hero then, yeah. We had this huge debate about whether Snape was a hero or not. Have you put it online?
Andrew: I can't remember what show that was.
Jamie: Yeah, well, if you heard it. Well, it was vicious at best, wasn't it?
Andrew: We also found out that the Dementors won't be at Azkaban anymore. They're going to use some new system to protect Azkaban. Or they are using it now.
Mikey: Yeah, the Dementors were part of the...
Andrew: Your mic's not working. Group?
Mikey: My mic's not working?
Andrew: Do you have an on switch?
Mikey: No, there's no on switch. Anyway, the Dementors were part of the corruption that the Ministry had, and so now that they're reforming the Ministry, the Dementors are leaving away.
Jamie: Where do they go?
Jamie: Where do you - huh? Where do you send a Dementor? And they don't listen to you either, so there's like a troublesome creature. Anyone have any ideas? [laughs]
Andrew: Nope, no ideas.
Jamie: What a very uninspired crowd.
Jamie: Come on!
Jamie: Come on.
Mikey: We'll all go to Kansas to hang out with Ben.
Andrew: Someone said to Jo, "Was Minerva in love with Albus?" and J.K Rowling said, "No, not everybody falls in love with everybody else." It's amazing how people just pair these people together.
Jamie: It is, it is, it is.
Ben: Yeah, everything's romance, for some reason.
Mikey: I was a little sad Hedwig and Fawkes didn't get together.
Jamie: Who? Who?
Mikey: Hedwig and Fawkes, you know.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew: Oh, she did explain that.
Jamie: It was the travesty of the book series.
Mikey: That's a joke, everybody.
Andrew: She did explain that, and we've been wondering this too, someone said to Jo, "Why did you feel that Hedwig's death was necessary?" And J.K Rowling replied, "The loss of Hedwig represented the loss of innocence and security. She has almost been like a cuddly toy to Harry at times. Voldemort killing her marked the end of childhood. I'm sorry, I know that death upset a lot of people." Anyone upset by the death here? It was just - were you upset upset or were you just like,"Aww, Hedwig"?
[Audience Member yells something and Audience laughs]
Jamie: Oh my God.
Andrew: Does that really exist? Hedwig's not...
Jamie: There's a slight flaw in that plan though, Ben, isn't it? On the website.
Andrew: I have a feeling that's not going to work out very well, though.
Jamie: Well, yeah, the slight flaw being that she is.
Andrew and Mikey: Yeah...
Emerson: They had theories, but Harry/Hermione shippers had theories for the last three books too, so...
Jamie: But, Andrew, I know exactly what you mean when you say that people just pair people together, because I'm surprised in the last book when Dudley's like, "Well, actually, Harry you're a really great people." I'm surprised...
Ben: Dudley/Harry shippers?
Jamie: Yeah, Dudley/Harry shippers. They're going to come at some point, they may as well come now.
Andrew: Yeah. [laughs] Someone asked, "Does Winky still drink a lot of Butterbeer?" J.K. Rowling replied, "She's dried out a bit now." I wonder if - like, she obviously doesn't have this all in her head. Before this web-chat she wasn't thinking...
Andrew: ..."Does Winky still drink a lot?" She makes this up on the fly!
Jamie: There are a couple like that, yeah. She makes them up. There are some more; there are loads like that.
Emerson: Yeah, you can definitely tell reading the book. I mean, but she can do that, though, because she's J.K. Rowling, and it's the last book, so...
Jamie: But then she has to write it down just to make sure she remembers that she's made something like that, or...
Andrew: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And she'll go - oh, she did explain who was the person who displayed magic later in life. She said, "I've changed my mind about that one. That one actually did not happen."
Ben: She's allowed to do that too.
Emerson: So, basically we wasted a lot of our lives...
Andrew: Yeah. Because we've been discussing that...
Emerson: ...thinking about something that was a complete waste of time...
Andrew: Yeah, we've been discussing that on tour if you've heard the shows. We were like, "Duh - who was it?" But now it's a...
Andrew: Yeah, we don't know it all.
Jamie: What other questions were there?
Andrew: Well, I was trying to find...
Mikey: We've found out who killed Remus and Tonks, which is kind of sad, but Bellatrix...
Ben: Why does Bellatrix kill everybody?
Mikey: I know! Bellatrix did Tonks in. It was really sad. Sirius. No, it's Remus, not Sirius. [laughs] I love that joke.
Andrew: About the person displaying magic later in life, Jo said, "My very earliest plan for the story involved somebody managing to get to Hogwarts when they had never done magic before, but I changed my mind by the time I'd read the third book." Which is pretty early on, so - someone here said it was Dudley?
Jamie: If she's changed her mind by the time she wrote the third book, not read it.
Andrew: I don't know.
Jamie: You'd think so.
Andrew: That's a good question.
Jamie: Though if she writes it and then reads it, she'll be like, "Oh no!"
Ben: Though she wouldn't read it until she had changed her mind.
Andrew: Who would it have been? Because she didn't say who it was. So she must of had this...
Jamie: Maybe it was a new character?
Ben: Not Hagrid, but Dudley?
Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]
Jamie: Dudley, yeah.
Andrew: I guess Dudley would make sense. But if he went into the school, how would he - what would that do? What would happen?
Ben: Perhaps she had a story line for that we didn't hear about.
Andrew: Exactly. How did Voldemort get his wand back after he was in exile? Wormtail, desperate to - Emerson, didn't you say you called this in the book or something?
Emerson: Yeah, in the book. If any of you have read MuggleNet.com's What Will Happen in Harry Potter Seven?, we did say Wormtail had to be at Godric's Hollow the night that Voldemort killed James and Lily, because he would have had to pick up his wand, and that's how Voldemort was able to kill Bertha Jorkins in Albania. And speaking of the book MuggleNet.com's What Will Happen in Harry Potter Seven?, you have to take a moment here, because, you see, Ben and I spent the entire summer traveling around the country, standing in front of bookstores - over thirty total, including one in Canton here. And was anybody at that event, by the way? Okay, a few hands, few hands. And we basically spent - we would say some of our theories about Harry living, and Snape loving Lily, and Snape being a good guy and all that, and then we'd get to the Harry a Horcrux theory. And we would proceed then to spend the rest of the event - probably about half an hour per event - just defending the theory from angry, angry people!
Ben: It wasn't very popular.
Emerson: It wasn't a popular theory at all! But we held firm in our convictions, and we were vindicated in the book, and I just...
Ben: We were proud. We were proud.
Emerson: We're very proud of that, actually.
Jamie: You're very proud of this, aren't you?
Emerson: We really are! We took so much heat this summer, you have no idea! Every bookstore, as soon as we tell the theory, everybody would start snarling at us.
Jamie: I can tell every time you tell that story, because your voice levels out and it becomes emotion-filled, and I just think that's very impressive.
Ben: Okay, guys, okay, who here's...
Emerson: Because there's one event, in particular, where there's a woman in the second row who, I swear to God, she was about to lunge at us at any minute.
Andrew: Hold on one second. Actually, yeah. Sorry, I had my mic up to my face, hold on. My bad. Anyway, one last thing we wanted to point out here. Someone said to Jo, "Why did Dumbledore want Ron to keep his Deluminator?" And J.K. Rowling said (I thought this was nice), "Because he knew that Ron might need a little more guidance than the other two. Dumbledore understood Ron's importance in the trio; he wasn't the most skilled or the most intelligent but he held them together. His humor and his good heart were central."
Andrew: Which leads to our main disscussion today. We wanted to talk about Ron. We've been covering a series of characters who played big roles in the book. We've gone through Snape, Voldemort...
Andrew and Jamie: Dumbledore...
Jamie: And we talked about Hermione yesterday. Yeah.
Andrew: Today we're going to talk about Ron.
Jamie: Talk about Harry tomorrow. Yeah, we'll talk about Ron today. I've always seen quite a bit of mixed opinion on Ron. Some people who like him, some people who thinks he's tagging along with Harry, and Harry's a real hero. Some people think it's him who's the real hero because he has to put up with Harry's outbursts at times and how he's always being overshadowed by his family, and in the seventh book there's a lot of changed things about Ron, how he runs away and then Harry and Ron really, really, really, really unite for the final time, and we know they're going to be friends forevermore. And he helps Harry a lot, like when he just turns up at the pool when Harry jumps in with the Horcrux and saves the day. So - go on.
Mikey: Oh, well, I was going to say, about Ron - what about his mom in Book 7?
Ben and Mikey: Give it up for Molly Weasley!
Andrew: [laughs] I can't even talk about it anymore!
Emerson: What'd you do, Mikey?
Mikey: Well, anyway!
Jamie: Should we explain why...
Mikey: Well, let's explain why...
Jamie: ...we just changed tangent?
Mikey: ...we're laughing real quick. Ever since the first podcast we did on this tour, I've been saying, "Molly Weasley," because that's just an awesome scene, really. But then - I think two days into it - Ben took that. He took that line twice from me and I was just like, "Dude! That's my line!"
Jamie: However, Mikey is...
Mikey: [unintelligible] ...the story. So then I proceeded to steal four of his jokes, just to get back at him.
Ben: Whoa, whoa, whoa, okay!
Jamie: That's Mikey's story...
Ben: Day one happens, then day two, Mikey stole everybody's jokes.
Ben: So day three, we decided to steal jokes back from Mikey to get him back.
Jamie: Mikey stole one of my jokes once and from...
Mikey: I'm sorry, I apologize, I apologize!
Jamie: ...there it was downhill. That's the way it was. No, it's all good, it's all good. And we tried to get...
Emerson: Oh yeah! Well, listen to this: one time, Mikey went to the bathroom and he didn't wash his hands!
Mikey: That's a lie, sir!
Emerson: Mikey, touche, bro! Don't call me out in public like that.
Ben: I saw it, I saw it.
Audience Member: I do that a lot!
Emerson: That's right. And you thought you heard enough about Mikey.
Mikey: [sighs] Anyway...
Andrew: We had a member of the audience say, "I do that a lot."
Emerson: Everybody has skeletons in their closet.
Jamie: The Life and Lies of Mikey Bouchereau. It's going to come out next.
Mikey: Wow. That's the next MuggleNet book right there?
Jamie: Yup. We're going to print it soon.
Andrew: Anyway, back...
Mikey: Anyway, back onto Ron Weasley.
Andrew: Was anyone surprised by how he sort of just left Harry and and Hermione? I mean...
Ben: Yeah, that was weird.
Andrew: ...they've been best friends for seven years now, so, why would...
Jamie: I always thought - sorry, go on.
Andrew: Sorry, my cup's falling over.
Ben: Honestly, I think it's good that he was ashamed of it. I mean, that was weird.
Emerson: The whole fight - even though I understand there was a lot going on in their lives and they had every reason to fight with each other - but it really was immaturity that kept Ron from leaving or that made Ron leave. Harry and Hermione would never get to a point where that would happen, because Hermione is so much more mature than both of them combined that she would just drop it and she'd realize that there was nothing to come out of that.
Ben: And Ron's kind of whiny.
Mikey: Yeah, he is. Really.
Ben: ...compared to Harry, I think.
Mikey: Well, I also thought that it was kind of lame that he forced Hermione to choose between him and Harry at that point.
Emerson: It's immaturity.
Andrew: That just shows his immaturity level. He's like...
Mikey: ..."Choose between me and him," and, of course, she chose Harry.
Ben: Of course. Because, you know, in that position you're usually - the person who makes you make the choice is the one you're not going to go with just because they're making you choose, so...
Emerson: That is something you'd see someone who has the "emotional range of a teaspoon" saying.
Jamie: You sure it wasn't just the Horcrux that was causing them to do that?
Emerson: I mean, the Horcrux probably exaggerated that, but he was still being a little whiny, immature baby.
Ben: Well, I think the Horcrux still had everything to do with it. I think the reason that...
Jamie: I agree.
Ben: ...he got so upset was because he had been emotionally dragged down by that thing, by that object. And it just got to the breaking point where that - he got so emotionally drained to where it was his affecting his behavior and his attitude towards Ron and Hermione.
Jamie: Yeah. But even though...
Ben: Harry and Hermione.
Jamie: But even though that was extremely immature, he grew up towards the end of the book when he was all about House-elves' rights and that kind of thing.
Ben: Jo answered that too. She said - she talked about writing that scene, how she loved writing the scene - the kissing scene between...
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Ben: ...Ron and Hermione.
Jamie: Yeah, she did.
Andrew: Ron finally earned his S.P.E.W., I think she said.
Jamie: Aww. That was a bad choice of words.
Ben: I don't think she put it that way, but...
Andrew: A little pun there. Yeah, she did.
Ben: Find it.
Mikey: I think she did. Anyway, going back to Ben and the Horcrux, I totally agree with you, Ben Schoen, on that one, simply because when Ron had to actually destroy the Locket-Horcrux, it was him that had given the Horcrux enough of his emotions, kind of like how Ginny had given the diary a lot of her own emotions and thoughts, and so it was him that saw the Harry/Hermione regurgitate and his worst fears, and it was him who had to destroy that Horcrux, rather than Harry. It was also him that grabbed the sword because Harry jumped into a lake naked...
Jamie: I agree.
Mikey: ...with the Horcrux on.
Emerson: See, that's just such a Harry Potter thing to do, though, isn't it?
Andrew: It's like...
Emerson: "I'm alone in the middle of the woods! I'm going to dive into this freezing ice-cold lake by myself, with no one watching, so I can go drag down this mysterious object."
Ben: Why did he leave the locket on?
Mikey: "With a piece of the Dark Lord's soul around my neck!"
Ben: Who knows this movie? [imitating Rose from Titanic] "I want you to draw me wearing this...only this."
[Andrew and Audience laugh]
Ben: Titanic? Have you seen Titanic? Yeah.
Andrew: No one here is going to want to see that film.
Emerson: That scene right there is - I mean, wouldn't any rational person just go, "Hey! Hey, Hermione! I found the sword! Come and help me; we're going to go to the lake and we're going to get it out together. We're going to think out a way to get down there." No, no. He just strips and jumps in.
Emerson: He's not that smart!
Jamie: He's not.
Emerson: Like, he's lucky! I love Harry and I'm glad that he won and he's alive and he's a good person, he's a great friend, but he's not that intelligent. He really isn't.
Ben: Now, Emerson. Emerson.
Emerson: Smart people don't dive, naked, into ice-freezing cold lakes...
Ben: Now, Emerson...
Emerson: ...by themselves, in the middle of the night after chasing a ghostly doe into the woods.
Ben: Emerson, Emerson, I have a question for you. Jo did happen to say - someone asked Jo the question specifically, "When Harry died where did he go?" She said he died, dude. How do you handle that?
Andrew: That was the question. That wasn't Jo's words.
Emerson: Yeah, that was the question. Jo said, in the transcript, that when he thought he was dead, he was in a limbo between life and death. And we've been saying for the past couple of podcasts now, there was a theory we heard that we thought was really good, that the train station at King's Cross, at Platform 9 and 3/4, was a sort of a purgatory, like you decide by getting on the train which way you're going to go; living or dying. Harry chose life. So he didn't die in the book. He didn't.
Andrew: No. And we said, Emerson, on another podcast, that if - you cannot come back after you die. And Jo's made that clear.
Jamie: He couldn't have died though.
Andrew: Even with magic. Yes.
Mikey: He was in limbo, like she said.
Andrew: There was something I was going to say, now I forget, but another thing Jo said in this chat - I just wanted to go back to, real quick...
Jamie: Can we continue about Ron?
Jamie: Does anybody have some points on Ron they want to make, about how he's changed throughout the books, or him in the seventh book, or anything like that.
Mikey: Anyone want to come up and comment about Ron Weasley?
Jamie: Anyone at all.
Mikey: Anyone in the Weasley family?
Andrew: Right here.
Mikey: Come on up.
Jamie: Come on up.
Mikey: You guys can be on MuggleCast.
Andrew: [imitating fangirl] Yay! I've always wanted to be on that show!
Mikey: Say who you are, where you're from.
Emerson: Your phone number.
Mikey: Social Security number.
Audience Member: My name's Meg. I'm fourteen, and I just wanted to say that my friend and I made predictions, and I totally called the Ron snapping thing, because I said someone in the trio was going to snap, and I think it was going to be Hermione, and my friend said, "Well, it's not going to be Harry, because he already snapped in the fifth book." And so I said, "It's going to be Ron," and I got so excited at that part, because even though he left...
Andrew: It was bound to happen. A snap was bound to happen at least, since one of the characters didn't actually die...
Audience Member: Yeah.
Andrew: ...which Jo said she's put a lot of thought into. Killing one of them.
Ben: Well, now that Emerson and I have had our chance to boast, she has, has anybody else? By all means, come on up. Do you have a thought?
Andrew: What's your name...
Jamie: We should ask them for proof on these boasts, Ben.
Andrew: What's your name and where are you from?
Audience Member: I'm Sarah, I'm from here in Canton. The thing about Ron that really gets me, is my friend's always like, Ron's such a bad person, but people don't give Ron enough credit, because it's so hard. You've got to think about it. He's got six brothers and sisters, and they're all so much cooler than he is, and...
Audience Member: ...and - well, except for Percy. But - and he has to share everything. He grew up having hand-me-downs, and I think people just don't give Ron enough credit. So that's pretty much all I had to say.
Emerson: See, I feel like Ron is just so incredibly normal.
Emerson: Like, I feel like he's just - there's nothing about him that just really stands out. He just seems like a really normal teenager who had been living a life with lots of brothers and sisters. Harry is normal in the sense that he's normal concerning what he's been through, but he's not had a normal upbringing.
Ben: He's like the Chosen One too.
Emerson: Well, I mean that makes him a little different.
Emerson: Other than that...
Jamie: Actually, he isn't different - so sorry - he's completely different, isn't he? Because everyone knows his name. I'd say that, and that's changed him.
Emerson: I mean, like his personality, though.
Jamie: Oh, you mean for a normal teenager. Yeah, that's true.
Jamie: That's a good point.
Mikey: Nothing to add.
Andrew: Any other questions?
Jamie: What about over there?
Andrew: They're starting to build up. See, it's - yeah, yeah, we're talking about Ron, so yeah, come on up. See, it's funny, because whenever we start asking for questions, there's nobody....
Jamie: Nope. Mhm.
Ben: Yep. And then at the end there's a flood of eighty people who all of a sudden have a question.
Andrew: Exactly. There's a flood. And then we can't get to everyone. So here, come on.
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