The Epilogue

Andrew: Jerry, that still doesn't really answer the question, why you like the epilogue. [laughs] I mean, you know...

Jerry: I think it brought me some sense of fulfillment, that everyone was just happy and that sort of thing.

Eric: I think it's like Jo's vision; something that stretches beyond. Like Micah said, she had to close it out for herself in her own way. It's kind of like this overtly, motherly kind of way to close the series with your characters, your children, naming their kids after themselves and stuff and just sending them off to school. I don't know.

Andrew: Makes sense.

Micah: It just - the one thing I was going to add was that it didn't seem very J.K. Rowling-ish. That was my problem with it. You go through the whole series and she has a specific way of writing. I just don't think the epilogue came across written the same way as the rest of the book.

Eric: Well, Micah, I would argue that Book 7 itself didn't seem J.K. Rowling-ish.

Andrew: Well...

Laura: I don't agree with that, but I really agree with what Micah's saying. Looking back on it, at first when I read the epilogue, I was like, "What's this?" It just didn't seem like it was on par with the rest of the book at all. And thinking about it, honestly, I'm glad that all the characters got what they wanted. I'm glad that they all grew up and got married and had babies. That's wonderful. But I think the main issue that I took with it upon my initial reading of it was that it really almost felt like that had been written a very long time ago and that it hadn't been edited very much. I guess it just seems like the writing style was different from the rest of the book. Not that it was bad, just that it was different.

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, then again, it was set nineteen years later, so it is telling a story in a different way. Like you're not really seeing it - it's...

Laura: Well, I mean, the difference was there was no conflict...

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: ...and that's what the Potter books have thrived off of, is just...

Andrew: That's true, that's true.

Laura: ...the amazing amount of conflict...

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: ...between, you know, Harry and Voldemort, Harry and Draco, so...

Eric: Also, I think it was...

Laura: ...that's why it was different.

Eric: ...weird to have had the chapter "King's Cross" just moments before and imagining this ethereal kind of King's Cross afterlife type foggy setting. And then to actually be in King's Cross, but in the distant future, I thought was a little bit weird, you know, that they were back there, like, you know what I'm saying? Like it was - we had just been reading about this kind of afterlife, King's Cross, and now we're in this epilogue where we're imagining, kind of foggily, the future.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: You know what I'm saying? Like it was just - like bringing it back again, and I'm like, "Wow."

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: You know, it was a little awkward...

Jerry: Yeah.

Eric: ...but not too unpleasant.

Andrew: Fair point. Fair point. I feel what you're saying. You want to move along to - anyone else have some thoughts before we get to some e-mails? Lots of e-mails.

Laura: No, I think we can move on to the e-mails...

Andrew: Okay.

Laura: ...if everyone else is ready.

Andrew: As you guys can imagine, we've been getting a ton of e-mails concerning the book; everyone's got their own little question. And we have a couple of those, and then we also - we had Jamie dig back into his e-mail - deep into his e-mail - back in July, from when we had everyone e-mail him questions when we were doing the live e-mail-in, so to speak, right when we had finished reading the book. So we have a few of those here and a couple more current e-mails.

Harry's Career

Andrew: First one comes from Drew Lauten, eighteen, of Orlando, Florida. He writes about the epilogue, actually. He says:

"Was I the only one who thought for sure that Harry was going to become the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher? I mean, an Auror's cool and all, but when he was teaching the DA I just thought it would be logical for him to fill the position that was available now that the curse was lifted and do something he's good at."

I was - we had discussed on the show that he - how confident were we that he was going to be the DADA teacher? [laughs]

Laura: Well, I never thought he would be, because Jo flat out said that none of the trio were going to teach at Hogwarts, so... [laughs]

Andrew: She said that?

Laura: Yeah, she did.

Jerry: And how he does state his own.

Andrew: When did she say that?

Laura: She said it in an interview. She said one of - see, my friend here, who is a Harry Potter fan, is nodding. She's telling me that I am right. But anyway...

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: ...back - I don't even remember when it was, but she said that someone - one of the characters that we know will become a professor, but it won't be Harry, Ron, or Hermione. And that's why everyone thought it would be Neville, because apparently his name means "absent-minded professor" in Latin or something...

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Laura: ...so...

Jerry: That's a detailed translation.

Eric: That's a spoiler. That's... [laughs]

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: It just seems so right for Harry, though. And Drew's right; after Order of the Phoenix when he's teaching the Dumbledore's Army, you know, all these defensive spells, it was almost like foreshadowing.

Micah: It also goes back to Order of the Phoenix, too, and McGonagall had said - not exact quote, but something along the lines of, "I'll make sure Potter's an Auror if it's the last thing I do." Do you guys remember that?

Eric and Jerry: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I forgot about that.

Laura: Also, I feel like - and not to degrade the position of a teacher or a professor - but I feel like Harry's purpose was something beyond that. Like, I feel like if he was the person who was going to defeat Voldemort, it seems somewhat anti-climactic, to me at least, to have him, after that, be teaching at Hogwarts. It seems like an Auror was far more of a fitting position just because it's the kind of thing that he was born to do, so...

Jerry: It's not just that he was an Auror; it's also that he caused all that reform in the Ministry and, therefore, inflicting such change.

Eric: Yeah, which I really like. Like facing that persecution from the Ministry. There's nobody better to reform the government...

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: ...as it needed to be done.

Mrs. Weasley Killed Bellatrix

Andrew: Okay, let's move on to another e-mail. This is from Sheila Salanick, fourteen, of Pennsylvania. She writes:

"Dear MuggleCast, in your most recent podcast, MuggleNet Episode 105..."

[laughs] Not most recent anymore.

"...you mentioned your theories that Mrs. Weasley did not kill Bellatrix Lestrange. You are completely and utterly wrong. My first piece of evidence that Mrs. Weasley killed Bellatrix is on page 736 on the U.S. edition..." and she quotes, "'Jets of light flew from both wands, the floor around the witches' feet became hot and cracked. Both women were fighting to kill.' Also..." she quotes another part of the book: "'Molly's curse soared beneath Bellatrix's outstretched arm and hit her squarely in the chest, directly over her heart.'" Sheila goes on to say, "As demonstrated quite a few times throughout 'Order of the Phoenix,' 'Half-Blood Prince,' and 'Deathly Hallows,' stunners lift the person off their feet. Bellatrix was not lifted off her feet; she just toppled over. Also, we all know that Voldemort does not get emotional about his supporters. Dumbledore said himself, over and over, that Voldemort has no friends. Thus, why would he scream and advance on Molly if Bellatrix was just stunned?"

Laura: I didn't know that there was any question about her death at all. Like...

Andrew: Well, on one - in one of the live shows, and I guess this is - this would have been Ohio, she says - we were talking about, was Bellatrix killed for sure? Because - whether - I'm pretty sure we said on the panel that she wasn't still alive, that she was killed. But at any rate, you guys all agree that Bellatrix is dead?

Laura: Oh, yeah.

Jerry: Yeah, definitely.

Andrew: Okay.

Laura: I didn't question it at all when I read it.

Andrew: All right. Because we did. I think it was because one of the people who were there was like, "Are you sure she's actually dead?" But all right. The one thing that got us - the one thing that we were discussing to begin with is that J.K. Rowling never says, "Bellatrix is dead."

Eric: Well, I'm just depressed that Neville didn't get to kill - well, Neville got to kill the snake, okay, fair enough, but I would have liked to see Neville and Bellatrix...

Micah: That's going to be an awesome movie scene. You know that.

Eric: Oh.

Laura: Oh, I know!

Eric: "Not my daughter you..."

Micah: No, no. Him slicing off the snake's head.

Nagini

Eric: No! That was poorly written, I thought.

Micah: Both of them will be. You did?

Eric: When I...

Laura: Why'd you think it was poorly written?

Eric: Just...

Andrew: [laughs] Just because it was poorly written.

Eric: No, no, no! I just thought there was so much happening in that scene, that when I first read it, I wasn't sure why Voldemort wasn't right in front of Neville as Neville cut the snake's head off. And if Voldemort would've seen that happen he would've killed Neville right then and there. Like, Voldemort is freaking out about his Horcruxes; does he not notice that this little boy just killed one of his Horcruxes? He's that much closer to mortality because of this kid. Was he right in front of them? I just didn't understand the placement. I thought that Nagini was wrapped around Voldemort's neck when Neville took its head off. That's what I thought, and then all of the sudden I was reading and Voldemort was heading into the Great Hall. So I was like, what is going on? Because Neville should actually be dead right now. And it's not that I want Neville to die, but if he took the snake's head off, I'm pretty sure Voldemort would be a little bit more upset than he was and instead focusing on whatever else he was. It was just - I'm sorry, didn't understand that scene.

Laura: I would have to reread it. I don't exactly remember the placement, but at the time...

Micah: I don't remember the sequence of events enough to...

Laura: Yeah. Just thinking about the reading of it at the time, it made sense to me, so I don't know.

Andrew: Yeah, maybe - Eric, I think Voldemort was just - main concern, all he cared about, was getting rid of Harry.

Eric: Well, I think it would be intelligent to have some kind of sub-objectives, like not losing more Horcruxes.

Andrew: [laughs] But...

Jerry: He did show earlier how much he was willing to protect Nagini in the box.

Andrew: Yeah.

Snape's Death

Eric: Yeah, in the box. What do you think of Snape's death? That's the question for me, because there are a few people who were actually upset about Snape's death even though it was such a noble death, and afterwards Harry just, you know, forgets about the battle and goes up to the Pensieve and learns all that stuff. Some people think maybe he should have dueled, maybe kind of done something else instead. You know, he just got bit in the neck by a snake...

Andrew: Well, yeah.

Eric: ...but it's an important snake! Maybe it's important that Snape's death was kind of - not anticlimactic, but kind of quick and easy, in ways.

Andrew: Well, that's the thing. It should have been more of a triumphant death, I think. [laughs]

Laura: I thought it was very tragic though, and I think it was fitting because...

Andrew: Oh, it was terrible!

Laura: Yeah, because Snape is a tragic character. I don't know. I think it would have seemed kind of weird for him to be like triumphantly - well, not triumphantly - but bravely leap out in front of Harry and stop a Killing Curse. That would've just seemed out of place to me.

Eric: Yeah. No, I think I agree. When I'm asking about that, as well, I just think, you know what? I actually do like how it was done. Voldemort and Snape had that conversation just moments - and Voldemort was getting tired of Snape, finally kind of seeing things less as equal and decided to kill him. I think that is actually cool, because it's all about the relationship that Snape has been upholding between himself and Voldemort to protect Harry and stuff. And when he grabbed him and said, "Look at me," that was actually very dramatic.

Laura: That was so sad. You know what? A lot of people - you know you've got a lot of people out there who are huge Snape fans, the ones that write all the fan fiction and apparently there's a podcast. These people were very unhappy that Snape did not get a funeral.

Eric: Oh, come on! If you're going to ask...

Laura: I was like...

Eric: ...her to write...

Laura: Here's my point: if we were going to show the funeral of a character that everyone cared about, then you would have had like seventy-five funerals at the end of that book. Honestly, I didn't feel like that was important to it. I felt like Dumbledore's funeral was important because at the time he was important to Harry. Harry didn't realize Snape's loyalty; he didn't realize anything like that about him until after his death. And I think that Snape really got - I think that we what Snape was made of and I think that we saw that Harry did come to appreciate him because he named his son after him. So...

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: ...I just don't see the big deal.

Eric: You're right about the funeral. Just - yeah.

Micah: There was something about his death that always puzzled me. I don't know if you guys thought about this at all. You know when Voldemort kills Snape because he thinks that it's going to give him the power that he needs to defeat Harry and the whole issue with the wands? He never kills Snape with the wand so, essentially, he never takes that - at the time he thought he was taking that power away. But how does that work, though, because he had the snake do it. He didn't actually use his wand. So isn't that a flaw in his plan?

Laura: Yeah, but that was the whole point. He was flawed in his assumptions. He didn't know what he was doing.

Micah: Yeah, he was flawed no matter what, though, because of the whole Draco situation, but...

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: ...he was flawed even more in the sense that even if Snape was the person, he didn't even kill him with the wand. He killed him with the snake. So he would never have had the power anyway, right? Do you understand?

Laura: Yeah. But that was...

Eric: Voldemort was...

Laura: That was the whole point. I think a lot of it was Snape also protecting the other people connected to the wand. He wasn't just protecting Harry; he was protecting Draco, too. Like, you're trying to basically - I think that Snape was acting on Dumbledore's orders to protect as many people as he possibly could, just like he acted on Dumbledore's orders to kill Dumbledore in order to protect Draco and in order to keep his position safe.

Eric: But while we're on the subject of Snape, just thinking about how cruel he would have had to have been as Headmaster of Hogwarts. He couldn't have been nice, because his under-teachers, the Death Eaters that were - I forget their two names - but they were teaching Unforgivable Curses to the students. I feel like we've had such a brief glimpse of Hogwarts from this book and what was actually going on that it's impossible to say that Snape was - he died a valiant death, but just thinking the beginning of the book, he was the one who took George's ear off and, I think, killed Mad Eye. Didn't he?

Jerry: But surely he was doing that in order to protect him, theoretically.

Laura: Yes, and he also killed that Muggle Studies teacher, but I think it was all in order to protect his position.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: I really think so.

Eric: No, but in the end it was just an end of means, I think, but...

Jerry: He had to be there; he didn't need to protect - protect the students.

Eric: It's just something else. And to take orders from Dumbledore's portrait all year and to really organize things based on that, which I thought was cool. The thing I liked most about it was the Dumbledore/Snape relations as viewed in the Pensieve. That was just cool.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Overall, though - well, first of all... [laughs] ...I was off for a second, but the Snape funeral thing, that's definitely pushing it.

Laura: Yeah, I think so as well.

Jerry: More people would want a Tonks/Remus funeral, wouldn't they?

Andrew: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. [laughs]

Eric: More people would have wanted them to live, actually.

Harry's Signature Spell

Andrew: Next e-mail is from Harlene Gambeer. She says:

"It was said earlier in DH that 'Expelliarmus!' was Harry's signature move, and he defends his choice by saying it saved him from Voldemort in Book 4. It's cool to note that this is the spell that he uses to finally destroy Voldemort and he needs nothing else."

As we were saying on the tour a lot, that seems to be Harry's spell for everything in Book 7.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Jerry: Yeah.

Eric: Oh, there's a giant snake coming out of an old lady's face and body, and just magically: "Expelliarmus!"

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Problem solved. It's like the whole Alohamora thing. I just can't...

Eric: It's the wizard's bread and butter, as Dan explains in the movie.

Andrew: Yeah. What's the point of locks in the wizarding world if everyone can just do a quick Alohamora and open the doors up?

Jerry: Well, they have magic locks, as been proven in the Department of Mysteries, haven't they?

Andrew: Yeah, but still. [laughs] But still, it's like - I don't know.

Jerry: Honesty, Andrew, honesty.

Eric: Well, the only thing they haven't - what?

Andrew: I guess it is honesty.

Eric: They haven't undone Permanent Sticking Charms, have they? Because there's apparently some kind of level of Sticking Charms that you can't undo; for instance, Mrs. Black's portrait. Because they said they must have tried everything on it. So there are apparently things you can do to lift Sticking Charms, but not Permanent Sticking Charms, depending on how strong they are. So I'm just thinking about locking doors, etc. You could just put a Sticking Charm on the door, maybe.

Jerry: You could, but you wouldn't really want to put a Permanent Sticking Charm on a door, would you?

Eric: Well, not unless you could walk through walls. [laughs]

Extent of Dumbledore's Knowledge

Andrew: In the second part of her e-mail she writes:

"To what extent did Dumbledore know that Harry would survive because of his blood which ran in Voldemort's veins? I'm also a bit sketchy on this idea since wasn't it Voldemort who was the withering child at King's Cross? Wouldn't they both be in limbo, sort of? Was Dumbledore really all right with raising Harry as a 'pig for slaughter' and making him sacrifice himself despite the love that we are assured he has? Is this the grand plan that he tells us about at the end of Book 5? The plan to equip Harry with the power to kill the other Horcruxes and then kill himself? This idea tarnishes Dumbledore's image for me."

Eric: Okay, quick answer: No, he did not know at all. Second thing: Yes. No, you're right. It's not cool.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: And third answer: Yes, you should be tarnished in your Dumbledore image because that's a crap cop-out!

Andrew: [laughs] Oh, man.

Laura: Okay, it's not a cop-out, though because...

Eric: It's a cop-out. Harry is a Horcrux?

Laura: Dumbledore's whole thing - it is not a cop-out.

Eric: What are you going to say? "Harry is a Horcrux"? Come on.

Jerry: Dumbledore was incredibly, incredibly intelligent.

Laura: He was!

Eric: Even if Harry was a Horcrux, he could not...

Laura: He was, Eric.

Jerry: He was a Horcrux, Eric.

Andrew: Don't tell me we're getting into this debate.

Eric: Listen, he could not have been a proper Horcrux because he was made accidentally, not with all the right charms, right?

Laura: It doesn't matter, Eric.

Eric: Even if Harry was a Horcrux, he could not have been a proper Horcrux. There should be...

Micah: He's a bastardized Horcrux.

Andrew: Eric, Eric, Eric...

Eric: Yes, he's a dastardized Horcrux, which has to be the title of this episode. [laughs] Dastardized Horcrux.

Andrew: A what?

Eric: Um...

Andrew: Dastardized?

Eric: Dastardized. D-A-S-T-A-R-D-E-L...

Micah: No, no. No, you said he was illegitimate, so - forget it.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs]

Eric: Illegitimate Horcrux.

Jerry: I like that better.

Eric: Not made properly. Harry is also his own private entity, and, not only that, but J.K.R. did not specify, or at all, what part of him is a Horcrux, or if he is a Horcrux, how's his scar intrinsically linked to that? Because she didn't remove his scar; she didn't...

Andrew: I really don't think that this is up for debate though.

Jerry: But she's not specified about...

Eric: No, I'm not...

Andrew: Dumbledore explicitly said, "Harry, you are the seventh Horcrux." And I laugh at people who still try to argue with it.

Eric: Oh, no, no, don't confuse me.

Andrew: I agree. There should be more details...

Eric: There should be more details; that's all I'm saying. I will accept that Harry is a Horcrux. I think it was a cop-out...

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: ...just because the prophecy - we were told ahead of time how strictly worded that was, and we were guessing and guessing on the prophecy for so long. That didn't come into play. Okay? It turns out Harry's this Horcrux. That was anticlimactic.

Laura: Yeah it did.

Eric: And - oh yeah? How'd the prophecy come into play?

Laura: One has to kill the other...

Jerry: One of them killed the other.

[Jerry and Laura laugh]

Eric: Oh, oh, but what about one...

Laura: ...for neither can live while the other survives.

Eric: Yeah, but they both died and one of them lived and it's like...

Jerry: And that's why...

Laura: But Harry didn't die.

Eric: But they were both surviving the whole time anyway.

Andrew: Yeah...

Laura: But here's the point, though: Harry never died. Voldemort died at the end. They weren't dead at that moment...

Eric: Okay, well...

Laura: ...because...

Eric: Okay.

Jerry: One of them died eventually.

Laura: ...because the point is - yeah.

Jerry: That's all that had to happen.

Laura: Yeah. Harry was anchored to the earth with the same protection that his mother gave him. That was the whole point, because as long as Voldemort survived with Harry's blood in his body, Harry couldn't die.

Eric: Mhm. So...

Laura: So since Voldemort cursed Harry with Avada Kedavra, it should have killed him, but it didn't because Harry didn't try to kill Voldemort.

Eric: Though, according to Dumbledore, Harry had the choice of whether or not he wanted to live or die at that moment, so...

Laura: Yes, and he chose to live because it wasn't easy. He could've died and gone and been with his family, but he didn't. He chose to go back and finish Voldemort off.

Eric: Okay. So you justified the prophecy; it does come into account. I might stand corrected. But what about the journey? What about the journey, how Harry thought that he had to do it on his own and yet every time in this book it's someone else who finishes off a Horcrux? I like the idea that all of Harry's friends get to get their own try at a piece of Voldemort's soul, but then why emphasize Harry's lone journey at all? Or the fact that it's Harry alone? Because he never embraced help, yet every single...

Laura: I don't think...

Eric: All of his friends got to try at the Horcruxes.

Andrew: He did it himself.

Eric: Why does it have to be Harry? Or why is Harry important at all if all of his friends get to go around and have the power to destroy Horcruxes? If all it takes - I mean, I realize...

Laura: The difference, though...

Micah: I don't understand what the argument is, though, because, I mean, Harry's only destroyed one, and the one he destroyed was by accident, really, and what does it matter who's destroying the Horcruxes? As long as they're being destroyed.

Jerry: They're being destroyed, yeah.

Laura: Yeah. See, the point is, Harry - the prophecy never said anything about Harry being the only one to destroy the Horcruxes. It said explicitly that Harry had to kill Voldemort. So I don't think that it matters that his - that Neville and Ron and Hermione all went after Horcruxes. I don't think that matters. I think the point is that Harry had to be the one to finish off the last piece of Voldemort's soul, which was the piece residing in his body.

Eric: Oh, well, then that kind of plays down the prophecy, I think, in my opinion, because the only thing...

Laura: I don't think so...

Eric: ...because...

Laura: ...because it was the active...

Eric: ...the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord, the one with the power to actually finish him.

Andrew: To actually do it, yeah.

Laura: But, you see, that was...

Eric: Okay...

Laura: Okay, Eric...

Eric: After seven other people...

Andrew: Eric...

Eric: ...take care of seven other bits of soul, Harry is the one - this kid at the seventh month, he's the one who can actually kill him after everyone else.

Andrew: But I think...

Laura: Yes, but see...

Andrew: I prefer to - I think I prefer to see all of his friends help him out.

Eric: I do! I do too, as well! I do, as well. It's just that...

Jerry: That's the moral of the story.

Andrew: So don't complain, sir, don't complain.

Eric: No, it's great. But why did Harry not accept that? Or why was it focused on him? For most of the book - and this is a paradox, this is where it pisses me off. This is where it upsets me. For most of the book it's the trio in the woods, all the way past Christmas, maybe even into - I think it's Easter by the time they actually do something. Okay?

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: They're just in the woods...

Andrew: Uh-huh.

Eric: ...for the longest bit of time, and they have their own kind of relation. It was all right to read, I guess, but there's just - among the many problems, it's just them alone. And they're secluded from the world. And it's big emphasis on maybe the trio. Harry, yes, but maybe his closest friends. But yet, at the end, it just never - it didn't seem to amount to anything. I'm sorry, it didn't.

Laura: I thought it did, though, because...

Andrew: That's your personal opinion.

Laura: ...you can argue that all of the pieces of Voldemort's soul all add up together to make the entire thing, but the point is those pieces of soul that Ron, Hermione, and Neville all destroyed, those were all dormant. The point is, Harry destroyed the piece of soul that was out wreaking all the havoc. Harry destroyed the piece of soul that was out killing everybody. He destroyed the big bad guy, in a sense. I mean...

Eric: They're all the big bad ones.

Laura: Everybody else sort of...

Jerry: I wouldn't say they're all dormant, though. I mean, look at Riddle's diary, the amount of harm that caused.

Laura: But, see, they were - it was - I don't know. They were dormant unless you started messing with them, in which case they could possess you. But the point was, you had - I really feel like the piece of soul that was inside of Voldemort's body was the primary. Like...

Andrew: Yes.

Laura: ...it was the one out directly...

Andrew: Harry was...

Laura: ...causing trouble.

Eric: There's seven...

Andrew: Harry was the only one who could do it.

Eric: Oh, no, no, Harry wasn't the only one.

Andrew: No, he - but...

Eric: Harry was the only one who could kill the one part of the soul that was in his body. But...

Andrew: Mentally, mentally...

Eric: But Dumbledore prepared Harry for the Horcruxes. He didn't - he didn't go out and invite Ron and Hermione into the classroom and tell them about Horcruxes. Yes, he told Harry that...

Laura: Ah, but, you know...

Eric: ...he could tell them...

Laura: But remember, Dumbledore explicitly told Harry that he needed to confide in Ron and Hermione. I don't think he would have told Harry to tell them what was going...

Eric: Okay...

Laura: ...on if he didn't want them involved.

Eric: ...fair enough. But what about Neville? What about - you know, anybody else that - did he - I mean, Dumbledore kind of wanted, or thought it had to be specifically Harry, but yet it was very vague and I - there's just a lot of problems I have with Book 7 I'm not coming to terms with. This show is a good way for me to...

Andrew: Well...

Eric: ...do that.

Andrew: ...let's...

Eric: Forgive me.

Andrew: [laughs] Okay. We should split it up over multiple shows, Eric, because I have a feeling this is going to be...

Eric: Okay. Yeah.

Andrew: ...a lot.

Eric: No, that's fine.

First Snitch Made in Godric's Hollow

Andrew: Let's move on though to another e-mail for now, and, Eric, you can do your thing later. Another one comes from Deborah Bailey. She says:

"Is there any significance that the first Golden Snitch was made in Godric's Hollow?"

Not really, I don't think.

Jerry: Just a coincidence.

Andrew: I think it's just a fun fact.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: I think it's just...

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: ...a cool fact.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Just like a plot thing.

Harry Going After the Hallows

Andrew: Another e-mail from Matthew Rulestone:

"Did you feel betrayed that we had built up too much to Harry going after the Horcruxes, then halfway through, he was choosing between the Horcruxes and the Hallows, which he didn't really know so much about?"

Eric: Yes.

Andrew: He didn't really know so much about. Yeah, but there had to be a new plot introduced in the book, I think. A new - a new - what's the word I'm looking for?

Eric: I know what you mean, Andrew, because I was feeling this...

Andrew: A new factor...

Eric: Yeah...

Andrew: ...or a new...

Eric: ...or a new - kind of like all the books have been separate in a way. Even if they've tied to Harry, the overall story they're separate books.

Andrew: Yeah. Like Book 6 focused on Horcruxes and...

Eric: Like the Philosopher's Stone, like the Chamber of Secrets, you know, that kind of thing.

Andrew: Right. Right. Right.

Eric: But yeah, the inter...

Andrew: And there had to...

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: What? Yeah.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: Yeah! I - no, Andrew. I agree with you. That's...

Micah: Well, I was going to say I thought it was...

Andrew: Micah?

Micah: ...important because it showed what Dumbledore was working towards for so long. You know, that was sort of his means of trying to combat Voldemort, I thought.

Andrew: Right.

Micah: And it was important, I think, to learn about that because it offered an alternate means. I'm not saying that it - I don't think it took anything away from the Horcruxes. It was just an alternate decision for Harry to make. "Which way do I go?" And it just turned out that the destruction of the Horcruxes was the easier way for him. I don't - I mean, I'm not upset that it was introduced but it was kind of the whole basis for the book.

Eric: It tied in what several things I think J.K.R. wanted to do to the Hallows story. It gave us a lot of Dumbledore's past, it presented Harry, as Micah said, with a chance, even at the last moment, to possibly do something different. Go an alternate route. Especially with all of his loved ones - his deceased loved ones showing up in the woods before he threw the stone down. That was - you know, that's pretty cool. Introducing the Hallows this late in the game was - I don't know that it was perhaps done the way I wanted it to be done. But at the same time, it was - it did present things to the novel that made it - made it kind of interesting in one of the ways. And you have to see this book as one of the books in the series, but also just a distinct book, I think. It was - it was an interesting plot line to add. I thought...

Micah: The thing was though...

Eric: ...that this...

Micah: ...the Hallows weren't introduced in this book. They were there pretty much the whole time with the exception of what was inside the Snitch, what Dumbledore put inside the Snitch. So, it's - with the Invisibility Cloak and the Elder Wand, they were always there; we just didn't know...

Eric: And...

Micah: ...they were there...

Laura: Mhm.

Eric: And the ring...

Micah: ...which...

Eric: ...even...

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: I mean in Book 6.

Micah: Yeah...

Eric: That's...

Micah: ...that's what I meant.

Eric: ...what I didn't like though. I mean - I mean I liked how intrinsically linked they were from the past. But Voldemort made a Horcrux out of something that was a Hallow without even knowing it was a Hallow, and I'm pretty sure nobody except Harry ever understood the rules of the Elder Wand. I still don't.

Laura: Well, that's probably a good thing.

Eric: Yeah...

Laura: I'm assuming that...

Eric: ...but the rules though.

Laura: ...not everybody knows about the Elder Wand.

Eric: No no, I mean the rules of the Elder Wand.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: The rules of the Elder Wand. The rules of the Elder Wand! When Voldemort was fighting with Harry, okay, and Harry's like, "Booyah! It's Draco Malfoy!"

Laura: Okay, but then that would have...

Eric: I did a double take.

Laura: ...been completely - that would have been completely pointless if Voldemort had understood the rules of the Elder Wand. They would have been in check basically.

Eric: Oh, it - if Voldemort had a - I mean, it's just - it's carelessness on Voldemort's part. I think Voldemort's pulling a Harry. He's taking some of Harry's traits now by not - by not knowing anything, really. I mean, that's a very offensive comment, I'm sure, but I...

Jerry: I think it's...

Eric: I was just disappointed.

Jerry: ...also all about how he's discovered it, isn't it? How he's taking the time to fully understand this has all happened because - because he's discovered all the stuff along the way. I mean, he's showing that Voldemort's losing his intelligence. Dum - Voldemort was, once this dominant character, has now slipped down. Harry has been learning all of what Voldemort hasn't been learning and that enables him to defeat him in the end.

Eric: With Expelliarmus.

The Chamber of Secrets

Andrew: Another question comes from Aria Hersh. Sorry if I got your name wrong.

"How did Ron and Hermione get out of the Chamber of Secrets?"

Eric: [laughs] Oh, well...

Jerry: Well...

Eric: ...here's a question.

Andrew: Fawkes saved the day.

Eric: Geez.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: I don't know! Can - it's like, can you speak Spanish without speaking Spanish? I mean, do you even get in? Like, you know, can you...

Andrew: Hmm?

Eric: ...say "amigo" without actually knowing...

Laura: You speak Spanish to get into the Chamber of Secrets, Eric?

[Jerry laughs]

Eric: No, I'm saying that another language such as Parseltongue - what did Ron say that...

Laura: [laughs] No, I'm just kidding.

Andrew: Le gusta...

Laura: Well, didn't...

Andrew: ...Secret...

Laura: ...Ron have...

Andrew: ...de Chamber.

Laura: Didn't Ron have a broomstick in his hand?

Andrew: Did he?

Jerry: Yeah.

Laura: After he came back? I thought he did.

Eric: There was a broomstick. There was a broomstick.

Jerry: Yeah.

Andrew: So he did.

Eric: You know, I wanted to see the Chamber of Secrets come back. I wondered - now obviously, after they discovered it in Year 2, for five years, did Dumbledore never go down there? Looking for traces of Voldemort?

Jerry: They could use it for something. They could convert it into useable space, surely.

Eric: They could have made it into useable space. Maybe...

Jerry: Painted the walls?

Eric: ...since there's only room for like five - four poster beds in the Gryffindor dormitory, they could have housed some more Gryffindors.

Jerry: Or a whole new House.

Andrew: That's a good point.

Jerry: That's an awesome point.

Eric: Or used it to house anyone really. But now, thinking about that, that was such an abscess. I can't believe - and thinking back I don't know why I never brought up the question before, but the Chamber of Secrets - I mean, even though it's been postulated what - or pondered - what has been happening down there, it seemed like very empty. She - I didn't even know if she ever answered the question and she still hasn't - if any of the teachers ever went down there. Because I mean, apparently, it had been looked for and actually searched for a long time.

Andrew: I think that's just irrelevant information though.

Eric: I don't think it's irrelevant. It's a big hole in the - in Hogwarts. Students could have been using it afterwards for secret things.

Andrew: Yeah. I think Jo's answer would just be, "Dumbledore sealed this."

Eric: Well, I would like that answer, just to clear it up.

Andrew: [laughs] Just to clear it up, yeah.

Eric: But yeah, Hermione and Ron going down there, I can understand why we didn't see it in the first person because it wasn't Harry, but I would have liked to kind of read about them in the Chamber a little bit more. Obviously, I mean, it was at the end of the book, everything else was happening. "Oh, by the way, we've been down in the Chamber." You know.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Nothing has happened there for five years but we pulled up some more Basilisk fangs; we're ready to kick some Horcrux ass.

Andrew: Yeah. Hey, hey!

Eric: We're ready to kick some Horcrux bum.

Micah: PG.

Andrew: What kind of language is that?

Eric: Sorry.

Laura: Hey, she used - she used "bitch" in the book, so...

Andrew: Oh!

Eric: Oh yeah, yeah...

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Gosh, you guys, stop, my ears are bleeding.

Jerry: Good enough for J.K....

Eric: Good enough for MuggleCast, yeah.

Andrew: Well, yeah, we can curse with limits. Well... [laughs] ...I hate to be like, "we can curse now," but whatever.

[Eric laughs]

Rules of Apparition

Andrew: I guess our listeners are growing up. Hey, another e-mail now, unless anyone had anything to add to Eric's thing. Jessica writes:

"I had always thought that in order for a witch or wizard to Apparate somewhere, they would need to have been at the place before in order to picture the place in their mind. But the trio was able to Apparate to Godric's Hollow and various forests. Hermione couldn't have camped at all of them when they've never been there before. How were they able to get there?"

Jerry: Well, they never say that you have had to have been somewhere to Apparate there, do they? It's never stated.

Andrew: Yeah, you just got to - I think they're just thinking of the location. At least I was...

Laura: Yeah, I mean, I guess you could also argue that Harry has been to Godric's Hollow. The only problem with that argument is of course he really doesn't remember it.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: His only recollection of it is the actual attack by Voldemort.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: But, I mean, I don't know, it sounds like - I mean didn't Hermione ever - it's like they went to the forest of Dean or something and Hermione said she'd been there camping. I mean...

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: ...I don't think it's entirely impossible.

Eric: Oh, that's true.

Jerry: That just means she could picture that place really quickly because it was a split second decision to go there, wasn't it? So...

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Hmm. And...

Eric: Read the e-mail...

Andrew: Let's see, where did I leave off here?

Eric: ...from Lexie. Well, you skipped Charlotte Hutchens.

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