MuggleCast | The #1 Most-Listened to Harry Potter Podcast

MuggleCast 116 Transcript

Show Intro

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Andrew: Today's MuggleNet podcast is brought to you by Borders. In May, thousands of Harry Potter fans descended upon New Orleans for the Phoenix Rising Conference. Borders was there to take in the sites and share a lively discussion of the series that has bewitched the world with some of Harry's most dedicated fans. Listen in and watch the action yourself. Check our The Phoenix Rising, Borders Book Club discussion at, or click on the Borders banner at the top of the MuggleNet page. [Intro music starts]

Micah: Because sometimes pigs are made for slaughter, this is MuggleCast Episode 116 for October 8th, 2007.

[Intro music keeps playing a little louder]

Andrew: Well, we're back for another week of Harry Potter podcasting here. Or should I say, I'm back. Hehehe..

Laura: Wooo.

Andrew: Thanks, Laura.

[Laura and Eric laugh]

Andrew: And also Jerry's here again and joining us this week.

Jerry: Hello.

Andrew: Because nobody else wants to talk to you guys anymore.

[Eric laughs]

Eric: It's just the 4 of us. It's just...

Andrew: Yeah, I'll tell you what, the news has been so slow lately.

Laura: It really has.

Andrew: There's nothing to talk about anymore.

Laura: I feel really depressed, like, I think about the times before the book came out and just how much news we had and now I just look at the main page and it's dead.

Andrew: Yeah, we would have spent an entire episode just on the news.

Laura: [laughs] Yeah.

Andrew: Now it's like an entire minutes just on the news.

Eric: Actually, just last week it took us 40 minutes to get through the news. That could have been me, but... [laughs]

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Well, oh yeah, and there's that whole thing with the tickets.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: But...

Jerry: Yeah.

Andrew: So, we're going to get through some news this week and then we're going to have some Muggle Mail and apparently nobody like the name change.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: You guys were like, making fun of me. We don't have to call it Muggle Mail. We can keep calling it rebuttals. I just thought...

Jerry: I like it.

Laura: Muggle Mail's fine. I just like to make...

Jerry: Because they email it...

Laura: Fun of you. I'm sorry.

Andrew: Last week you're like [blows raspberry]

[Laura laughs]

Eric: I think it's because some of our listeners posts their e-mail?I mean... No mail is posts...

Andrew: What? Posts are e-mail? That's an oxymoron.

Eric: No...

Andrew: Mail as in e-mail?

Eric: Well, Muggle Mail. You know most of the wide world calls it post, therefore...

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Just the fact that you're using Muggle Mail is strict Americanism that should be stopped dead, but...

Andrew: Oooh, I get it.

Jerry: Muggle groups!

Laura: Oh no! Americanisms on an American show.

Eric: You can't call it Muggle Post because that's copyright.

Andrew: It doesn't roll off the tongue as well.

Eric: And it doesn't roll off the tongue.

Andrew: Muggle Post. Muggle Mail. Muggle Mail, Muggle, Mail, Muggle Mail.

Laura: I like Muggle Mail better.

Andrew: Yeah, basically.

Jerry: Me, as well.

Andrew: I'm Andrew Sims.

Eric: I'm Eric Scull.

Laura: I'm Laura Thompson.

Jerry: And I'm Jerry Cook.

[Intro music continues louder]


Andrew: Micah Tannenbaum is in the MuggleCast News Center with this weeks past Harry Potter news stories. Hey, Micah.

Micah: Another set of JK Rowling's autographed Harry Potter books has been put up for auction by the National Braille Press last week for the Hands On! Books for Blind Children charity. This organization "strive[s] to eliminate the literacy gap that separates blind children from the mainstream." The auction will continue until October 25, 2007, at 9:00 PM EDT and on the next day it will be featured live at the gala hosted by The Tonight Show's Jay Leno.

The Order of the Phoenix movie is not the world's 6th highest earning film accumulating a staggering $933.9 million worldwide. Sorcerer's Stone is at number 4 with 976.5 million. On top of that the 5th film has surpassed Goblet of Fire's US sales of $290,013,036 earning its self $290,189,393.

In a new interview with Variety, Harry Potter producer David Heyman discusses what lies ahead for him after the last two films as well as what it has been like to work with actors both young and old. Heyman takes little credit for the development of the young stars citing their relationships with actors such as Gary Oldman and Maggie Smith:

"It's because of their commitment and curiosity to develop their craft. We've given them the platform, but they're here because they're good."

Finally, The Daily Mail is reporting that the 11-year old nephew of Voldemort actor Ralph Fiennes is set to be cast as young Tom Riddle in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. Director David Yates says he has found someone to play the part, but couldn't comment on who it is:

"I've found a really interesting kid to play Riddle. I can't tell you who it is yet-- it's early days."

That's all the news for this October 8th, 2007 edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.

News Discussion: Harry Potter is Wizard of the Month

Andrew: All right, thank you Micah. We have, as I said in the intro, as you can tell by Micah's news, there was some news, there wasn't a lot. Not as much to discuss, either. One thing I did want to point out. J.K. Rowling Wizard of the Month for October is Harry Potter.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: It's sort of been building up. It started with the Four Founders, and Godric Gryffindor was last. Then it went to Dumbledore?

Laura: Yeah, he was a Wizard of the Month. I just don't remember when.

Andrew: And then it was to Voldemort. I know Voldemort was last month and now it's Harry Potter, and I'm just thinking, she keeps building up to the greatest Wizard of the Month sort of seems like what she's trying to get across. Now, I'm wondering who's next. Who could be greater than Harry Potter?

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Or do you think she's going to go back to normal wizards? Know what I'm saying?

Eric: Ginny Weasley, his...

Andrew: Ginny Weasley?

Eric: This is what the thing will read: "Wife of Harry Potter puts up with all his crap, and his angsty moods." No, I really don't know.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I don't know. I just thought it was some Food for Thought because...

Laura: Yeah, it's interesting.

Andrew: seems like it keeps building up.

Eric: Yeah...

Andrew: The wizard. They're getting bigger and bigger.

Laura: I just wonder how much longer she's going to keep doing that.

Andrew: The Wizard of the Month?

Laura: She's going to run out of Wizards eventually.

Andrew: Yeah. That's true. Can't have a Wizard of the Month...

Jerry: There is a paragraph of work. I mean, come on.

Andrew: Yeah, that's true.

Jerry: She can manage it.

Eric: It's not like she's writing books.

[Eric and Andrew laugh]

Eric: But, I mean, it can be done automatically. I mean, it is just the first of every month. If it isn't already...

Andrew: I'm sure Jo's not sitting there...

Andrew: Oh, I'm sure Jo's not sitting there, "Oops, 7:00! Publish." Like, you know.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Sorry, not 7:00, but...

Eric: Why not? Why couldn't J.K. Rowling have a direct hand in her website? That's how I imagine it.

Jerry: I'd like to think she does.

Andrew: Jo's not sitting up at midnight every...

Eric: When I go to - Hey, Andrew, I've sat up at midnight and hit publish before on that little section of MuggleNet I do. And...

Andrew: Well, you're insane like that.

Laura: Ok, so yeah you're not a best selling author, either.

Eric: I just imagine... That's true. Not yet. Not yet, that's true. Not yet. But, it's - I just imagine that it's Jo to us, you know what I'm saying?

Andrew: I would love to see...

Eric: That he updates

Jerry: Her hand presses that button.

Eric: Like, when the door locks, for instance. I imagine it's her on the other side of the door, not letting us through. [laughs] It's just me.

Laura: Well, it is, but she doesn't - it's all automatically done. It's timed.

Andrew: Yeah.

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: I would love to see the admin panel for that site.

Laura: Oh, that would be cool.

Andrew: [weird voice]I would love to see the Administration Panel.

Jerry: Or is it all just kind of flash programming?

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, I think that - I wonder if Jo has like, you know how like we have MuggleNet Accio. I named it that, MuggleNet Accio.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I'm meaning like all-encompassing. I wonder if she has one where like she clicks the tabs and updates the site herself or...

Laura: J.K. Rowling Accio.

Andrew: If she just - yeah. [laughs] She just e-mails like Lightmaker.

Jerry: Mhm.

Andrew: Like, you know, "Here's my latest blog post. Post it, please."

Eric: Well I wonder, because it begs the question, how many other people do we know...

Jerry: Hmmm.

Eric: Because Lightmaker makes a lot of other sites too. We know a few people who they've made sites for, don't we?

Andrew: Well, Emma Watson's official site is created by Lightmaker.

Jerry: Yeah.

Eric: Oh, yes, of course.

Andrew: That's the most recent one. There are some other ones. Let me just go on their website real quick.

Jerry: The official website design company for Harry Potter movies.

Andrew: Right. Well, not the Harry Potter movies, are they?

Jerry: No, no. Harry Potter actors.

Andrew: Okay. Kid's Choice Awards, they designed the Kid's Choice Awards site for Nickelodean. Dominion Chick. Whatever that is. The FA Girls United, which is "a microsite supporting the England Women's Football Team."

Eric: Oooh, interesting.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: How are they doing, Jerry? Have you ever seen that?

Jerry: [laughs] Didn't know they existed? Shows how much attention I pay to sports.

Andrew: Oh, wait, looks like they also do a lot of video games, sports pages.

Jerry: I wonder if Jo's site was their big break in mainstream sites. Big mainstream sites.

Andrew: I would think so.

Laura: Mhm.

Eric: I wonder if she found them.

Andrew: I'm looking at their portfolio now and there's a lot of more recent, like, video games and stuff like that. Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire and also Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix website, I think I remember was created by Lightmaker too.

Jerry: Hmmm.

Andrew: So, they get around. They definitely get around.

Jerry: Hmmm.

Andrew: Moving on. A new actor...

Eric: Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait!

Andrew: What?

Eric: Quick speculation on Harry being the Wizard of the Month in October.

Andrew: Go for it.

Eric: As opposed to July, where July's when he and, obviously, J.K. Rowling are born. Now, October was - I mean, Halloween night, October 31st was the night that Voldemort attacked Harry. Do you think that has any significance here? Like...

Jerry: Yeah, could be.

Andrew: Well, maybe.

Laura: Well, yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Eric: Because, like, October's when Harry first brought hope to the world. Though, arguably that was in November. Because the beginning of the first book is either November 1st or 2nd dependingif you subscribe to the Lost Day theory or Missing Day. But it's - McGonagall says, I wouldn't be surprised if this was Harry Potter Day in the future. And it was because like it's the day that everyone is running around with cloaks and stuff and was all happy? So, do you guys - like I would have thought it would be kind of November or something. Or, at any rate...

Laura: Well...

Eric: I think people should kind of pick that up and have celebrations on November 1st or 2nd as opposed to just, like, July 31st for Harry parties.

Laura: I think the point is that Voldemort actually attacked them on October 31st. And, of course, people were celebrating the next day. So, I think that's...

Eric: The next day's a whole other month, though.

Laura: Okay. But, I think that if there's any significance to her making Harry Wizard of the Month of October, it's because October was the month in which his family was attacked.

Eric: Yeah, okay.

Andrew: But then begs the question, why would Voldemort be Wizard of the Month for August?

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Sorry, September, September.

Eric: I mean, just looking at it. If you think about it, if he attacked them late at night on October 31st British time, it was already November 1st in New Zealand.

[Andrew laughs and coughts]

Laura: Okay. And she clearly cares what time it was in New Zealand.

Jerry: She has a huge dice that she rolls

Eric: But it puts a kink in the Missing Day theory, because technically anything happened on two days. So, I don't know, but - Just my thoughts.

Andrew: You know, speaking of, like, a big Harry Potter Day, a lot of people are trying to organize a big event. I'm trying to find e-mails now, because I know I've been e-mailed about it. Have you guys heard about this? It's, like a big Harry Potter day - oh, what year is it? It's the day in the Epilogue.

Jerry: King's Cross, yeah.

Andrew: And everyone wants to gather...

Laura: Oh, at King's Cross Station.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jerry: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. Have you guys heard about that? I'm trying to get the exact day.

Laura: Yeah, I did.

Andrew: But it's so far off from now, that I just think everyone's going to forget about it.

Eric: It's like 2026. Andrew, when you do that, the other thing is still on Harry Potter in the text-only site, or actually anywhere. For Wizard of the Month, it says, "Potter joined the reshuffled Auror Department under Kingsley Shacklebolt at age 17, rising to become Head of said department in 2007." So, she's actually made it so that in the storyline, which she now subscribes to, surprisingly. The storyline is that Harry just became Head of Auror Department this year. So, if he were living...

Andrew: Oh, Okay.

Jerry: Perhaps it was this month this year.

Laura: Hmmm.

Eric: Well, it just says in 2007. So, she made him Head of the Department this year so I bet everyone's really happy. I bet Severus is really happy for his daddy.

News Discussion: Tom Riddle Actor

Andrew: Yeah, that's cool. So,I guess moving along now. New actor to play Tom Riddle. Previously in Chamber of Secrets it was Christian Coulson. But this is a young Tom Riddle so he had to be recast. And I don't think Christian Coulson was up for it, anyway.

Eric: You don't know that.

Andrew: I thought we heard he wasn't up for it.

Eric: Oh, did you?

Laura: Yeah, I heard he wasn't interested.

Eric: That's a shame.

Andrew: But then I was just looking at his IMDB profile - well, first let's get to the story and then we'll talk about it. Titan Tiffin is supposed to be cast as the young Tom Riddle. This comes from a recent article in the Daily Mail, so it's not the most reliable source, but it seems to be picking up some steam here. And David Yates was quoted as saying, "I've found a really interesting kid to play Riddle. I can't tell you who it is yet. It's early days." Meaning early days in the filming process. However, it seems like with Goblet of Fire and Order of the Phoenix with my experience, even before they started filming we would get these casting confirmations. But it seems now that Warner Brothers is trying to hide all of it until later. Which seems kind of strange.

Eric: Well, what kind of cards do they have to play? They can't hide a book. So... [laughs]

Jerry: Hmmm.

Andrew: Yeah, I know. I know. So, this guy has a little connection to Ralph Fiennes. He is the eldest son of Ralph's younger sister Martha, an award-winning film director, and Old Etonian George Tiffin, a novelist and film producer. Martha's the award-winning film director and George Tiffin, his father is a novelist and film producer. But a quick search on IMDB will reveal that Titan Tiffin has never been in a movie or anything before. So, he's going to be a brand new actor.

Jerry: But he has an amazing name.

Andrew: It is a cool name. Ttitan Tiffin.

Jerry: Very cool name.

Andrew: Yeah. So, we're still waiting on confirmation on that from Warner Brothers. We have no idea how old this kid is or anything, so I guess we'll just have to wait.

Eric: I'm pretty sure there will be, as soon as it's confirmed. There will be all sorts of information on him. And the thing that I have with IMDB is that great actors like Ian McKellen often do a lot of stage plays, and there's no - that stuff just doesn't show up on IMDB anyway. There's just no place for it if they do stuff on stage in acting.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jerry: Hmmm.

Eric: So, it's possible he does have acting experience.

Andrew: He could. Yeah, that's true.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: There was just nothing listed - movies, TV shows. He doesn't even have a profile on there.

Eric: Oh, yeah. Not even commercials are listed on IMDB, which is a shame. Or music videos. Well, maybe music videos. I'm not sure.

Andrew: He's a nobody.

Laura: Yeah, I do wonder how old he is because in the book we see Tom Riddle as an 11-year old and then as a young adult.

Eric: Yeah. We see him through various stages of life.

Laura: So, yeah.

Eric: I don't want Christian Coulson to play 11-old Tom Riddle, but I wouldn't have minded--I was actually supporting him being the 25-year old one, or something like that. I mean, if it can't be done, or whatever--but they've got to cast several Riddles, is the thing, don't they?

Andrew: Right.

Laura: Yeah, that's what I would think.

Andrew: Well, I was looking at Christian Coulson's IMDB and he's not doing anything right now, at least when it comes to movies or TV shows. He has been doing things like this year and last year, but they're all complete. He has no films in pre-production or currently filming, so I guess some people just aren't interested in coming back, or maybe they didn't even approach him. Who knows. But they do need him.

Eric: Yeah, well, it could help. Some little continuity between the films. We've been talking about that before on the show.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Just some general kind of principles that would help it move along a little bit easier.

Andrew: Right. Okay, moving along, unless anyone had any other news they want to discuss?

Eric: I don't - news, let's take a look at the schedule.

Andrew: Professor McGonagall's birthday, but other than that, there really isn't much going on.

Jerry: Book auction? I don't think any of our listeners are in the market for 40,000 pounds.

Announcements: Vote on Podcast Alley

Andrew: Yeah. There's book auctions all the time, too, so we really never talk about those. All right, I guess that's it. Moving on to announcements now, don't forget to vote for us on Podcast Alley. It is a new month, as the co-hosts mentioned last week. And by looking at the top ten list, we're number five right now.

Eric: Hooray.

Andrew: That's okay, I guess. We used to be number one.

Laura: Who are we under?

Andrew: Nobody Likes Onions. We're under the Super Secret Backstage Show, whatever the heck that is. Keith and the Girl is number two, Free Talk Live is number one.

Laura: Okay.

Andrew: So, we encourage everyone to please place their vote over at Podcast Alley. We like being in the top ten list because Podcast Alley is one of the sites that a lot of press go to to check out what's hot in podcasting, and we like to be featured in news articles because we're always referred to as those Harry Potter kids, those Harry Potter podcasters. So, be sure to vote for us - hmmm?

Eric: [laughs] I still remember your acceptance speech at the Podcast Awards, Andrew.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Laura: Oh, that was so good.

Andrew: Why the hell did those Harry Potter kids?

Eric: I know what you're thinking. How did Harry Potter - yeah. It was great.

Andrew: How the hell - yeah. I should have been like how the heck did those Harry - because I'm sure that was what they were all really thinking.

Eric: Well, I think you shocked the wine-tasting guys. The wine-tasting guys were all really shocked that you said that.

Andrew: Really? Why? They taste wine. And they're shocked at Harry - whatever.

Announcements: MuggleCast Down Under

Eric: Okay, next announcement. Mugglecast Down Under, guys. Listen, everybody. Mugglecast Down Under. Mugglecast in Australia. T-shirts now available for pre-order. Yes, I'm reading this from a script. Listen, guys, t-shirts for the event are now available. What we're doing is we're pre-ordering them because actually we're giving away these t-shirts--well, not giving them away, but we are selling them. They're twenty Australian dollars each. What they're doing is they're actually funding the shows. So just quick information, we have about three hundred people we're expecting to attend, but the problem with that is venues are quite tricky to find. We're still looking for places to accommodate our rising numbers, and pretty much the only way we can do any of this is through pre-ordering t-shirts. Otherwise we have to charge at the door, or something like that. So basically, we have these cool t-shirts ready for you, and they're actually quite awesome. You can choose from two different colors, and if you would like a t-shirt, please, please, please pre-order ASAP through, and you will get one. You can choose what event you'll be at. It will be amazing. These shows are going to be great. We have lots of cool stuff planned, and I think the official dates are the 19th of October in Sydney, after school for those people who were worried, the school kids, and the 21st of October in Melbourne, mid-afternoon.

Andrew: Awesome.

Eric: And that's pretty much it. Mugglecast Down Under in a box.

Andrew: Laura... Thank you, Eric. Laura and I were talking about this earlier, and we realized you really have your act together for this. This is pretty impressive.

Laura: Yeah. It's really well-organized. I was very impressed.

Andrew: You got quite a good event going on here. Not to say that we didn't think you could do it, but you got quite the event going on here.

Eric: No, no, no, not at all. And I will ask you guys, as soon as we have a venue, I'm going to ask you guys to try and contribute content. Because depending on what kind of multimedia stuff we can get, I want - if you could record a bit of video or something for the Sydney fans.

Andrew: Yeah, that'd be fun. Just for the Sydney fans.

Laura: Yeah, that's cool.

Eric: Well, and the Melbourne fans as well. But the Australians are going to want you there, so it's just natural that you have a hand in the show.

Andrew: Yeah. I'm going to have Steve Erwin in mine.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Well, I might have to edit it.

Andrew: Why?

Eric: Because we're looking to have a projector screen and stuff at some of the venues, and we're actually looking in lecture theaters and stuff like that, sort of around the unis is our current status. So...

Jerry: That's cool.

Andrew: Cool.

Laura: Andrew, you just reminded me of being at the aquarium.

Andrew: Why?

Laura: Do you remember that? When we were at the manta ray tank.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Wait, what? Oh, god. I already know what happened, without knowing the story. It's horrible.

Announcements: Ringtones and Jamie

Andrew: Hey, don't forget, Mugglecast ring tones are also available over on I really need to add a link. I'm going to add a link on the Mugglecast website. I just realized that there is no link, so that's probably why nobody's getting them right now. So there are Mugglecast ringtones for sale, right now my wizard rock single is - I'm going to get the Mugglecast theme song up there sometime this week as well, so be sure to check them out. They're only a few dollars, and we only get about half of that, so it goes to supporting the show. So thank you very much if you do purchase one. Another more depressing announcement.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Jamie is going to be off the show for awhile because he is back in school, so he won't be on for a few weeks. And I'm just saying it because otherwise we're going to start getting emails once he starts disappearing for a couple weeks. So, just so everyone knows now, he will be off the show until his winter break because internet does not work there at Durham University. Well, his internet connection is not fast.

Jerry: And winter break is about the first week of December.

Eric: You hear that, Durham? You're slow.

Andrew: However, Pickle Pack members are still getting a dose of Jamie every week because that still works for him.

Eric: Yeah that we can't exactly...

Laura: When do they go on winter break there?

Andrew: Ummm, early.

Laura: Is it the beginning of December?

Jerry: Yeah about, first week.

Andrew: I'm guessing it's the beginning...

Jerry: The first week.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Oh, okay. That's not bad.

Andrew: Yeah, okay. And also just one thing I wanted to touch on quick because we do have all this new studio equipment, well I do here in my room, I just wanted to mention we are starting to consider taking, doing more regular live shows. We actually did a test live show just for Pickle Pack members via Ustream on Friday, and that went over pretty well. We had some technical glitches but it was a test to show, it was a test show to make sure everything is working okay which it seems like it. We're still ironing out a couple of glitches but once we get through those we should be able to put together some seriously good live broadcasts. And we want to know what everyone thinks about that, maybe like once a month doing a live show. And one of the things we started considering as of lately was having Eric and Laura and even Micah come over to my house to record together, because if we're all together to record, not only would we interact a lot better but it would also sound a lot better. I mean these sounds these episodes do sound pretty good edited but just the interaction you would notice better chemistry, better quality, just overall a better show.

[Everyone laughs]

Muggle Mail: Refilling Basin

Andrew: Okay, yeah, let's move on to some Muggle Mail now...

Eric: Ooo.

Andrew: ...because you guys don't want to call them rebuttals, I don't know. I guess this first email is a rebuttal.

Eric: From Kevin, age 19, location Germany. Subject is the refilling basin, not an inconsistency. Heard about us from the MuggleNet main page.

"In episode 115, Laura, Kevin, and Eric were talking about the Horcrux in the cave and how Voldemort had to refill the basin when he'd made Kreacher drink the poison. You said it was a small inconsistency but it doesn't necessarily have to be one. You have to realize that the locket wasn't in the basin before Kreacher had emptied it. Voldemort only dropped it there afterwards (see chapter 10). This leads me to the thought that whatever potion was in the basin in the first place was probably not exactly the same one Regulus and Dumbledore drank later. It might not have even been made by Voldemort because why would he fill the basin without putting his Horcrux in first. So, I think he used a potion which would refill itself after someone drank it and he filled the basin with it for the first time at his trip with Kreacher. I know I might be nitpicking, but it's fun."

And then there's a little emoticon.

"Hear you all, love the show, Kevin."

Laura: Hmmm...

Jerry: I would have thought that Voldemort would've put potion in first so to make Kreacher drink it just to test the potions efficiency.

Laura: Yeah, that's what I thought.

Eric: Does he test his own work? Does he have faith in his own kind of thing by now? Is he suave in his step?

Jerry: Depends on how egotistical he was then, doesn't it?

Eric: Yeah, it does.

Muggle Mail: Micah Not Seeing Order of the Phoenix Early

Andrew: Yeah. The next rebuttal comes from Laurel, 22, of New York. She writes:

"Just wanted to send a note in defense of Micah not having seen the most recent movie right when it came out."

Because as most people know we were ragging on Micah a couple days ago or a couple weeks ago for not seeing the show. Well, you guys were. Sorry, not seeing the movie yet.

Laura: Yeah, it was me and Jamie.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

"A person's love of a book, any book, cannot be measured by their excitement, or lack thereof, to see the movie. That would sort of be like saying that a person doesn't legitimately enjoy Charles Dickens writing if they weren't first in line to see 'Great Expectations.' I consider myself a very devoted fan of the 'Harry Potter' series and read all of the books many times, but I have not yet felt any need to see all of the movies. I did see the first movie and was rather disappointed and so I skipped the next few and only saw the most recent because a rather attractive guy asked me to go with him."


Laura: Oooh.

Andrew: "Anyway, the point is, give him a break guys. The movie doesn't even compare to the books. Apples and Oranges, folks." Ummm, I like to stick up for...

Laura: Okay...

Andrew: ...Laura and Jamie right off the bat and say that they were just playing.

Laura: Yeah, we really weren't being serious. And also, we do run a Harry Potter talk show, so...

Andrew: Yeah, so it is important...

Eric: We are expected to see this kind of stuff. But at the same time I mean I guess apples and oranges. But yeah, wow, that's interesting seeing the first movie and being so disappointed that you wait until the fifth. Huh.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: And only because an attractive guy asked you out.

Eric: Yeah, well clearly there's other things...

Laura: That's a good reason to go.

Eric: ...on your mind, which is great you're a more well rounded human being than us geeks, but...

[Eric and Andrew laugh]

Eric: ...that's sad. Ummm, anyway...

Andrew: I mean so it was just something I wanted to point out, that we're not most of the time we joke on here and I don't know if you guys know Jamie very well but when he tends to run into like a good joke or something he likes to run with it and keep going with it, for the duration of an episode. Say like the Prison Break thing, or this. There's other examples, I can't just...

Laura: Yeah, and we all like to give each other a hard time like...

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Because we're all friends here so...

Andrew: Yeah and it was funny because once, while I was editing that show Micah saw it, he wanted to see it before I actually released the show because he was afraid that he would get too much crap about that, so...

[Laura and Eric laugh]

Andrew: So, there's also a second part of this email that Laura and I guess the rest and I sort of wanted to address too.

Laura: Yeah.

Muggle Mail: Harry's Fate

Andrew: "There's one other little thing that I thought I'd mention since I am writing in and it has been bugging me for quite a while. I can't remember which host said this but before Deathly Hallows came out, and you all were debating whether or not Harry would die, it was mentioned several times that basically once he killed Voldemort, Harry wouldn't have anything to live for since Dumbledore, Sirius, and his parents were dead. So he might as well kick it. That sentiment struck me as unbelievably heartless and really disgustingly insensitive. Millions of people grow up without parents or family, but God willing, they have to move on. Hopefully, putting the worst of it behind them and get through it. I would like to think that a character, about whom seven books have been written, countless website devoted to, and who is the subject of your very own podcast, would have the strength of will to overcome such a misfortune and go on to lead a healthy life. I just hate to think of any people or children out there who have suffered the loss of their family and loved ones hearing you guys saying that they don't have anything to live for. Maybe an apology would be in order. Anyway, sorry for the overall critical tone of this e-mail. I really do like your podcast and have enjoyed your debates and speculations on the books. Keep on keeping on. Cheers, Laurel."

Eric: Okay, whereas I was thinking whereas we weren't really joking about Micah, we were really serious he's a loser for not seeing the movies, we were actually joking about this whole Harry should kick the bucket thing. I don't know who said it, I don't think it was me, but we are not condoning that people with no parents and no family should die and that's...

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: ...that's just the bottom line. That actually was a joke. I'm sure, I'm sure it was a joke. Without knowing who said it, I know that it was a joke.

Andrew: It sounds like something I would say. I don't know.

Laura: Well, and also remember during the lead up to Book 7, we had the debate segment a lot and a lot of what the debate segment was surrounded around was stuff like should Harry live or should Harry die. So, and what I think listeners should know is that we would randomly be assigned sides to these issues and we had to argue them even if we didn't agree with them. So it wasn't necessarily a matter of I do think Harry should die, it's a matter of oh we're having this debate to bring forth different viewpoints so I'm going to argue that Harry has to die. It's not actually that we thought he should. You know?

Andrew: Right.

Eric: And I assure the world that we're all glad that he didn't.

Laura: He... uh yeah, okay. Again I bawled through the whole chapter where I thought he was going to. I was very upset.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Laura: I was relieved when he didn't and I really don't think that even if anybody on the show did say that Harry, who is a fictional character, should die because they feel like most of his loved ones are dead and that I don't know if they would think that he would be reunited with them in the after world, that's the only way I could think of anybody actually justifying that, I really don't think that can actually be linked to us saying that real people have nothing to live for if their family's dead.

Eric: That is well, yeah. That's true. That's an inappropriate connection.

Laura: I don't think anybody on this show would ever say that.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, so we'll move on from that, but every once in a while we like to clear things up.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Okay.

Andrew: That was one thing.

Muggle Mail: Pettigrew in Gryffindor?

Eric: From Zarah, age 14, location West Plains Montana. Right, MO?

Andrew: Missouri! Missouri!

Eric: Oh, what?

Andrew: Oh come on. You've been out of this country way too long.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Time to come back buddy.

Eric: What's Montana then? MA?

Jerry: Oooh.

Andrew: MN.

Eric: MN? That's Minnesota dude.

Andrew: Is it?

Eric: Yes, it's Minnesota.

Andrew: I'm pretty sure.

Eric: Jerry, Jerry, resident Brit, look it up. Find out what MO is. In the mean time...

Laura: MO is Missouri.

Eric: [laughs] "Why was Pettigrew in Gryffindor? On Episode 115 I really liked Micah's explanation of why Pettigrew was a Gryffindor."

Me too.

"However, as I was listening to the voicemail I immediately thought of Dumbledore's quote in 'Deathly Hallows.' Sometimes I think we sort too early. I'm not saying Dumbledore was referring to Pettigrew as well as Snape, but it is possible" - or rather - "is it possible that Pettigrew was braver when he was 11, and that he grew to be a coward as he aged. I'd love to hear what you think, and Laura you're my favorite. Pickles, Zarah."

Laura: Awww, thank you.

[Jerry laughs]

Andrew: I just want to clear up real quick, Minnesota is MN, Missouri is MO, Montana is MT.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: So does that mean I was right the entire time? [laughs] Ha! Oh yeah!

Andrew: No.

Eric: 10 years in a foreign country, American-ness still intact!

Andrew: What are you talking about?

Laura: What?

Andrew: What are you - you said Montana.

Laura: [laughs] Montana.

Eric: Yeah, was MO.

Andrew: No!

Laura: No.

Andrew: MO is Missouri.

Laura: It's Missouri. [laughs]

Eric: You said MT was...

Jerry: I'm having fun.

Andrew: No, MT is Montana.

[Laura laughs]

Jerry: Listeneres will judge.

Andrew: I'm looking at the United States Postal Service website.

Eric: It's your neck if it's MA.

Andrew: It's not MA. Laura did I say that? Jerry?

Laura: No, you said it right.

Andrew: Yeah, I had it right.

Eric: Sorry. Sorry, Missouri is - well I was right about Minnesota though. Minnesota is MN.

Andrew: I said Minnesota is.

[Laura laughs]

Whatever. No. Okay maybe you were right about that I thought Montana was MN.

Eric: But we're both wrong. We're both wrong, and that's okay.

Andrew: Well, ut you were wrong first. So, I beat someone.

Eric: I was, yes, I was. I concede.

Andrew: Okay. Next rebuttal, Lisa, 27 of Charlotte - oh, was there anything else to talk about, about that other e-mail?

Laura: Ummm.

Eric: Just Dumbledore and asking whether or not that related to Pettigrew, if he was born a coward or if he was raised a coward.

Andrew: Oh right, right, right. I think we've talked about this on the show, people can change.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I mean, especially in the beginning of their magical career 'til the end. Like...

Eric: So do you think...

Andrew: I think that's why we're saying the Sorting Hat is almost flawed because, you know?

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: It sorts you - but, then again, is it smart enough to really put you in the right house through your entire seven-year career?

Laura: Yeah, I mean it can't really tell what you're going to grow up to be necessarily. I mean, there's no proof that Pettigrew was going to grow up and end up betraying his friends to their deaths. So....

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Hmmm. Then again, he could have chose...

Jerry: Hmmm.

Eric: As we talked about last week, there was a pretty good point raised about how he could choose to go to Gryffindor because you know, he didn't want to be with the scary Slytherins, but at the same time you know, he ended up in the house of their mortal enemies, so. Yeah.

Muggle Mail: Expelliarmus

Andrew: Right. Next rebuttal comes from Lisa, 27, from Charlotte, North Carolina.

Eric: What was that Andrew? Next rebuttal?

Andrew: Next MuggleMail. Whatever. I'm going to say rebuttals forever when I do that transition.

Eric: Fair enough.

Andrew: Next MuggleMail,Lisa, 27 from Charlotte, NC, that's North Carolina for those of us living in New Zealand and completely lost touch with the United States.

[Eric laughs]

"There was an argument about whether Harry defeating Voldemort with the Expelliarmus spell was not a good ending. Well, JKR set us up to know how very important that spell was in one single line. Please remember when the DA first got together in 'Order of the Phoenix' and Harry wanted to teach them to disarm, and one of them thought it was a waste of time. Harry said that the spell had saved his life. There's your connection, the spell saves his life and therefore it is important. I guess I kind of look at it as foreshadowing, what do you think? Next I agree with Laura, Voldemort was too smart for his own good. It's like Einstein, he was a genius but couldn't write a grocery list. Also, Eric have a Coke and smile man, you seem uptight!"

[Laura and Eric laugh]

I don't think so.

Eric: Well, thank you Andrew, no no I - I'm still not convinced though.

Andrew: Bad week?

Eric: I'm still not convinced.

Andrew: Oh.

Eric: I mean, I love the scene in Order of the Phoenix when, it was when Zacharias Smith was in the DA and he was talking about, oh you know we're going to learn how to use Expelliarmus and that's going to save our life, and Harry just with that snappy retort like, it saved mine last year. That was good, but I didn't expect Jo to pull that card for the next two books. I mean, I thought it was a good sort of, you know, realization, but just the fact that the final battle ended in Expelliarmus is still and may always be just disappointing for me. I'm sorry I feel that way. I'm really sorry Lisa from NC, North Carolina, now that I'm knowing the postal things again. I'm sorry, but I think I'll always feel that Expelliarmus was a rip off, and I'll always feel like it was used too many times, just like Polyjuice Potion and stuff. I just wish it were different, that's all.

Andrew: But I think Lisa provides a good argument, I mean.

Laura: Yeah, I think so too.

Eric: What, that it saved his life there, therefore it should be used every single time Harry has to escape a battle?

Andrew: I don't... I don't...

Laura: No, but it is a nice little bit of foreshadowing.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Like Harry specifically said "it saved me from him last summer" so I mean it saved him from Voldemort who had just gotten his body back, and was somewhat at the height of his newly-restored power because Harry didn't really know anything about Horcruxes at that time.

Andrew: Right, right.

Eric: Well...

Laura: He didn't have the knowledge that he did in Book 7, so...

Eric: Can you call it foreshadowing, or just a reoccurring plot theme, or plot device, or something. You know, plot device. Harry needs to defeat a wizard that's over competent for him, Expelliarmus!

Laura: Well it could be, yeah, it can be a recurring plot device that's also used for foreshadowing.

Eric: Yeah, I'm just trying to - see, I'm trying to strip everything that I thought would be foreshadowed as opposed to everything that turned out wasn't, so for instance we can't really talk about certain things about the chamber. There were certain references people picked out to the Chamber of Secrets in Book 5 and 6 thinking that it was going to be a really big thing in Book 7 and it wasn't, and so a lot of people I just know were disappointed. I mean, I guess this rebuttal is pretty - this rebuttal is alright. Sorry, I seem so uptight! I should sing and dance a little bit more. If you guys watch my Blickles, I sing and dance all the time. But you know, whatever.

Muggle Mail: Attendance in Book 7

Andrew: One final e-mail this week, comes from Rebecca, 20 of Boone, North Carolina. She writes:

"Hey guys, love the show! I'm listening to Episode 115 right now, and you brought up the point that why would parents of any normal, ie non DA or kid of a Death Eater student, allow them to remain at Hogwarts while it was obviously overrun by dark magic. I'm currently rereading Book 7 and on page 210, Lupin tells the trio, attendance to Hogwarts is now compulsory for every young witch and wizard. It's a change, because it was never obligatory before. Thanks a lot for the awesome podcast, y'all."

Okay, well thanks for clearing that up.

Eric: Yeah, that was intelligent.

Laura: Yup.

Andrew: A little sarcasm, what?

Eric: No, I was not being sarcastic.

Andrew: Okay.

Eric: Why do people think I'm being sarcastic? That's why a lot of people really - no no, that was really intelligent, that was...

Jerry: Maybe you're picking up a New Zealand tinge in your voice, and it's making you come off a bit sarcastic.

Eric: You know, I hear Australians are the most sarcastic people in the world. I don't know if that's true.

Jerry: Mhm.

Eric: They also talk about goats a lot, but that's a side reference.

[Jerry and Eric laugh]

Just the Australians I've met working for this event. But apparently sarcasm - no, but I really liked that. That was - and that quote, I don't know how they would make people go to Hogwarts. That's cool that they are, but that's just, yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. So, that's good.

Main Discussion: The Morality of Dumbledore

Andrew: Yeah, so this week, our main discussion, quit a lengthy and sure to be interesting discussion written up by Eric.

Eric: Woot!

Andrew: The Morality of Dumbledore a.k.a. the Magical Pig. Am I missing something here?

[Eric laughs]

Laura: Yeah, I don't...

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: No, it is like Harry Plopper from The Simspons Movie. But that is what I thought of when I wrote "The Magical Pig" which was the original title of this discussion.

Andrew: Oh okay.

Eric: You guys it will make sense in a while I will tell you.

Jerry: Okay.

Eric: It is time to reach a conclusion here as we have seen seven books of happenings to guide us. Few episodes - okay, blah. few episodes ago we were asked if it was "Moral" the Dumbledore may have been and I quote "Raising Harry like a pig for slaughter," do you guys get it now. And are you familiar with the term?

Laura: Yeah.

Jerry: Mhm, vaguely.

Eric: "The Magical Pig."

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Dumbledore is raising Harry for slaughter, okay. It is true that in seven books Harry has Dumbledore guiding him subtly and not so subtly until finally becoming the one that maps out his entire fate. Therefore, was it morally correct encouraging Harry psyching him into battling Voldemort when the outcome was likely to be Harry's own death or is Harry was the only one who could defeat Voldemort, is it good that Dumbledore bestowed so much care and guidance, love that Dumbledore showed in raising Harry to fight that it overrules anything bad or was Dumbledore just saving his own skin or putting the Wizarding World before a boy? What do you guys think, just generally on the side?

Andrew: But was it likely? Was the outcome likely to be Harry's own death?

Eric: Well, I think it was. Wasn't it?

Andrew: When we go back to point one?

Eric: Well, ever since the day...

Laura: Well, yeah.

Eric: ...of the prophecy "No one can live while the other survives."

Andrew: Well, I don't see how it is likely if he would end up living throughout the story anyway.

Eric: He died. You remember.

Laura: Well, I think...

Eric: He did die.

Laura: he did not die.

Andrew: He didn't die. He was in Limbo. He came close I guess you can say.

Laura: Yeah he was between worlds, but I think a lot of the point was that Dumbledore had to be very, I guess, categorical in his raising of Harry. Like, instilling in him the unconditional moral obligation that was binding in every circumstance. And it was not dependent at all upon Harry's purpose. So like, Harry could not know that he had to die or else that might have changed his perception of how he should fight up until that point. Because, but Dumbledore not telling - by Dumbledore not allowing Harry to have that knowledge until the last possible minute, it really made all the difference. Because Harry really was not looking toward to the final battle as "I have to die" in Book 4. He was looking towards, as "I have to defeat Voldemort." So, he does not have the whole idea of his death looming over him. Which I think was a big crucial part of this.

Eric: Well...

Jerry: It definitely is a case of knowing something about yourself affecting the way you see the situation. I mean, I have just been reading - not to make a tangent here - His Dark Materials and that's also got permissive about the main character having a destiny to fulfill that is they knew for themselves it would change the entire course of the experience.

Eric: Well, that's is the thing. So much of Harry's destiny wasn't certain it just seems that Dumbledore is a manipulating old man. Maybe we were meant to think that in light of Book 7 but it just seems that Dumbledore manipulated Harry quite a bit and it does not even matter not telling him his destiny that he could face his destiny because from what Dumbledore said a lot of the prophecy was, you know, kind of set in store only if Voldemort acted on it and Voldemort would always choose to act on it and sort of other stuff would happen and it was not entirely clear. So what I have done is I have mapped out some examples of times in the book when Harry looked up to Dumbledore. So, all you guys have this so I would not mind if you guys take turns reading so it is not all me talking. So, Laura?

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