Question: Would Snape's Portrait be hung at Hogwarts?

Andrew: We will thank those who let us in. All right so the next question, the last question of the night besides the Dumbledore question, referred to Snape's portraits and Rowling answered that Harry would have insisted that it would be hung in the Headmaster's office at Hogwarts but that he would probably have not visited it to converse with Snape. And Jo still surprised when she said that fans are torn about Snape, who is a complicated character and stated that Snape was bitter, vindictive and mean and everyone, once Jo revealed that Harry would have insisted that Snape's portrait be hung in the office I think there was a collective, "Awww!"

Question: What did James, Lily, Sirius and Lupin do for work?

Micah: Did we answer these two questions?

Eric: Yeah, okay Donna, the one who, and I can not make fun of her because I have not seen her and I would not make fun of her so, she just says "What were the occupations of James, Lily, Sirius, and Lupin, after they graduated Hogwarts?" and actually I can make fun of Jo's response because she just basically says, Lupin was unemployable, because he is a werewolf, which does not leave any hope for any fan fiction. You know, werewolves, they never get jobs so them as a class they are just diminished. And also everyone else was a bit of a slacker. They never had to be employed because James was rich. They also worked full time for the Order. Which I suppose is a respectable job in the after fact because there was a war going on at the time. So, I will not make fun, but I do think it would have been fun to see them suitable for other jobs. Like, ask any of them...

Micah: But, is that a sufficient answer though? I mean...

Eric: Yeah, it is, it is sufficient. Well, I mean are you saying it might not be? Because, like they work for the Order?

Micah: Well, yeah like wasn't there a lot of talk about Lily's job being important?

Laura: Yeah. There was.

Eric: Oh, oh, right.

Micah: She's just a bum.

Laura: I was convinced that she was either a Seer or she worked in the Department of Mysteries or something crazy like that. And then we find out that she didn't. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, people thought about that.

Micah: So basically James was her sugar daddy?

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Well, love, money, [sighs] yeah. [sings] "I ain't saying she's a gold digger." [laughs] Okay.

Andrew: [laughs unenthusiastically] Yeah.

Laura: Eric, no. [laughs] Andrew and

Eric: [singing] "I ain't saying she's a gold digger."

Eric: [continues singing] "She aint messing with no broke, broke..."

Ben: How about [sings] "Soulja Boy..."

Laura: Is it me or is everybody's school is doing that dance? Everyone is doing that dance.

Ben: Ummm, actually the only person I have seen do it is Emerson and I didn't think it was funny at all.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: It is ridiculous everyone I know is doing that dance and I just stand there and watch them like "why?" I would never in my life, but anyway.

Andrew: I do not even know what that is. All I know is the moves in Hairspray.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Anyway, I...

Laura: Speaking of which... [laughs]

Dumbledore's Sexuality

Andrew: And now for a complete change in subject Dumbledore is [high pitch] gay! You see my voice...

Ben: Wow.

Andrew: I still have my high voice back. Did you guys hear about this? Dumbledore, it was revealed by J.K. Rowling at this Carnegie Hall book reading, Dumbledore is gay. This girl came up and said "What about Dumbledore's love life? Where has it been? What girl was he hooking up with?' and she revealed "Well, I always pictured Dumbledore as being gay. And that, it did not sink in for me at first because it did not feel like a definitive answer because she said "I always pictured as Dumbledore as being gay" like, that is what she said right?

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Is that all she said?

Andrew: "I always saw as Dumbledore being gay"

Laura: Yeah, but then she said that he was in love with Grindelwald. So...

Micah: Yeah. Well, when I first heard this I thought it was going along the lines of, "Well, I always saw Dumbledore," and then I thought I was going to hear a "with professor so and so", like "with Professor McGonagall" you know? And, I do not know, I was really shocked. I did not expect to hear that.

Ben: I do not know. But see, I woke up I was not - the news did not change much.

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: You know what I mean? I did not really care because; okay for example, I got this e-mail here from someone who sent it in. It was a 45-year old from Lake Whiley, South Carolina, I'll leave the name out of this, it said:

"I know I have no way of relaying this message to the author herself but maybe you can. I know you often have opportunities to discuss certain issues with her. I am a reasonably tolerant person with the tenant of live and let live, but with her announcement with Dumbledore "coming out of the closet," that just ruined the whole thing for me. Yuck. That was a really stupid move on her part."

[Everyone laughs sarcastically]

Ben: "It would have been better if he had an unrequited love for Minerva or Bethilda, or someone we had not have met yet."

Eric: Better for your agenda.

Ben: "I will never read the books in the same light ever again and I have probably never have been so disappointed in anyone in my whole life."

[sigh] That is pretty sad.

Eric: All right.

Ben: "I will have to try and have to put this out of my mind and pretend she never said this in order for me to read the books again. If you can, please relay my comments I am definitely sure that I am not the only one who feels this way and I am sure that it is going to jump up and slap her in the face at some time."

Andrew: Oh, my god.

Eric: Oh, it won't slap her in the face.

Ben: "Most sincerely yours."

Eric: Okay you would get ignorant fans sending this in, e-mails okay?

Ben: Okay, but see, what I am saying is that I just do not understand how anyone can actually react this way.

Laura: No.

Ben: It is an issue that, is is really deep in our society and I think it has gotten better over the years.

Andrew: Definitely.

Ben: Gay, homosexuality in America has become a lot more tolerated, but at the same time you still have those people who have the mentality of a jock, in high school who thinks "Oh my gosh, someone is gay, you know?" You know, "Loser."

Eric: Yeah.

Ben: ...you know, that is the first thing that comes to my mind. How could they ever be like that you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: And I still don't see how anyone can really criticize, because they weren't Dumbledore. They didn't grow up in the same circumstances he did. They didn't have the infatuation with Grindelwald. They just didn't know, you know? And they didn't - I don't know. I just think...

Eric: And being 150 years old, nobody could have sort of grown up with him.

Ben: No, you know what I mean though.

Laura: It's not even that. Does him being gay, does it change anything?

Andrew: No.

Laura: Does it change his wisdom and all the good things he did? No! It doesn't.

Eric: No. Okay, the whole thing is, and my initial problem when I heard it, my initial fear was oh great, because the previous Mugglecast Episode, 116, "Pig for Slaughter," we were thinking well, I tried to raise some issues against Dumbledore. I tried to say maybe he is not so great. I tried to say that maybe he is not the greatest hero of all time.

Andrew: Yeah...

Eric: So, I kind of made a case type thing and then all of the sudden he is gay, and that is such a big issue in history and in current culture and society, I thought, oh great! Whereas I wanted to point him out as a flawed character, now that he actually is gay, anything that I might have said is now heald for the case against Dumbledore, which certain homophobic people might turn against and say, "Oh you know he is weak and he is stupid and he's gay." So...

Micah: Right.

Eric: So, we shouldn't read the Harry Potter books. Also, I know several people who come from fundamentally Christian families who that upset and whose parents gave them another reason to hate Harry, and I'm not saying that Jo shouldn't have mentioned it, but I am saying that it was quite sensitive that she did mention it. Maybe it should have been treated a little bit more sensitively, I think, because of the uproar.

Laura: I don't think so. I completely disagree.

Eric: Because of how much, how large the fan base is.

Ben: Okay, but do you think, do you really think, do you honestly think that Jo has always seen Dumbledore as being gay, or do you think that she saw after the fact, that "Hey, now that I have sold all my books..."

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: "...now that I have done all these things, I can come out with a statement for something that I believe in?" You know, obvoiusly, I bet she's a supporter of gay rights.

Eric: Oh, of course.

Ben: Yeah, and maybe she is coming out and saying this, becuase she wants to take someone in a powerful position, someone who is regarded as "the greatest wizard of all time," you know, and he is gay. You know what I mean?

Andrew: Yeah, It's a great thing to - I agree with what you are saying.

Laura: I don't know. I don't think that...

Ben: I support her in what she has done.

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: I give her the thumbs up.

Andrew: I am glad that you brought this email up, because I was trying to find a e-mail that was a negative response - was this sent to your personal e-mail address?

Ben: Yeah. I was.

Andrew: Oh, okay. I was looking through the mugglecast at staff, and I couldn't find anyone giving a negative opinion, which was good.

Ben: And someone else sent me an e-mail saying "a Christian response to homosexuality."

Laura: Oh, yeah. I saw that.

Andrew: Yes, we all got that

Ben: Really? Okay.

Laura: Ohhhh...

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: And there was just line after line of quoting the Bible...

Laura: Of crap!

Ben: ...and quoting all these things, and it's just...

Eric: Yeah, look...

Ben: I am not saying Christians are right, Christians are wrong.

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: I am not saying anything like that, but what I am saying is, you have got to face the facts. Not everybody is a Christian, and for a Christian to say that you should have to, or that everyone should have to follow what I believe, and that because I say homosexuality is wrong, then it is wrong, that's just even more closed minded.

Eric: And religions are that way, but I just wanted to draw a distinction. You asked, "How does that effect how he taught Harry?" That is the real question and the real answer is, I don't think it does.

Andrew: No, of course not.

Eric: And the whole, the whole thing behind it - and there is a clinical reason behind it too. There is quite a differece. There is quite a difference between homosexuality, being a gay man, and liking or corrupting little boys.

Andrew: Oh yeah. [laughs] And come on, Eric. You are pushing it now. We know that.

Laura: No, no, no. That is a little... Yeah.

Ben: But Eric is right though, when he is saying that is what the reaction has been from people. They say things like, "I can never see his relationship with Harry the same."

Andrew: Yeah, which is "BS".

Ben: That is the equivalent of saying that if in the books, Dumbledore had a really close relationship with Hermione, that that is a bad thing, because if he was straight. If he was straight and he had a relationship with a younger female, where he taught Hermione a lot, that it was a bad thing. Just because someone is gay, doesn't automatically mean they are a pedophile. If someone is straight, it doesn't mean - you know what I mean?

Eric: No. Pedophilia and homosexuality, yeah.

Ben: People just try to make that association, and it is just stigmatised in our society is all it is, and to be honest with you, it annoyes me that it was a big deal, because the morning - day after J.K. ROwling announced this, the next morning, Emerson, I'm living at his house now. He gets a phone call from Fox News, Geraldo wants Emerson to be on to talk about this.

[Eric sighs]

Laura: Of course.

Ben: I am all for publicity for MuggleNet, but at the same time the first thought that came to my mind was, "Why is everyone making such a big deal out of this?"

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: Why does this change anything? Why does this a big deal, but I guess some people out there aren't as tolerant.

Andrew: Yeah, I'll tell you what...

Laura: Well, to be perfectly honest, what really annoys me - I am sorry to cut you off Andrew, but...

Andrew: It's okay.

Laura: If you will remember, when we were in the City after that reading, every time we got in a cab and you put the radio on...

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Laura: All you could hear was, "Author J.K. Rowling says Albus Dumbledore is gay."

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Okay. Nevermind that there are fires in California and people dying all over the world...

Andrew: Ugh.

Laura: ... but who cares, because Dumbledore is gay.

Micah: Right.

Laura: And that really bothered me alot.

Micah: The thing was, I told Andrew that this too, I had three people come up to me on Monday morning...

Laura: Oh my god.

Micah: ...and ask me what is up with this? What is going on? Is this ligitimate? Is she serious? And...

Laura: Everyone here is saying the same thing.

Micah: What I want to say about this though is that it is a perfectly legitimate answer to the question that was asked by this girl.

Andrew: Right, exactly.

Micah: People are thinking that she just stood up and made this proclamation to the audience, which she didn't do!

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

[Eric laughs]

Micah: She asked a perfectly legitimate question, and she gave a perfectly legitimate answer, and she explained that answer to.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: I don't understand what the big deal is about that.

Andrew: And it was a very direct question too, and she wasn't trying to - at the beginning of the day she wasn't thinking, okay somehow today I have got to get into the question and answer that Dumbledore is gay. It was a very straight, direct question, "What about Dumbledore's love life?" What is she going to do? Lie? Just be like, "Eh, it was all right."

Laura: That is what she said.

Andrew: The fans want this information.

Eric: There was another further clarification that she made in the news a few days later, and she said that she thinks that kids will see that relationship in Book 7 with the writing letter between Dumbledore and Grindelwald, that kids will see it as a friendship and more sensitive adults will see it as an infatuation.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: And that is what she said. So, I don't know how she clarified it in the event I thought maybe you guys could...

Andrew: I mean, but no - I mean, all she said after our reaction, the audience reaction, was, "Oh, if I knew that you were going to take it that tremendously I would have told you sooner." So, I mean, I think she has - going back to what Ben said a little bit ago, I think she has had this in her head from the beginning. I think she said in an interview. She was like, she was getting mad at the press in Canada because that's all they wanted to talk about, and I think she said, "Well, if I revealed it back during Book 1, there would have been no mystery to it." She said, "I couldn't reveal it any earlier. I had to wait for all the books to come out."

Eric: It is - in a way, I can see how it relates to Dumbledore's story as told in Book 7, you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Dumbledore and Grindelwald

Eric: And really not much the rest of it. Though I mean, she calls him - on one hand, she does call him gay, like, immediately. She says, "I always saw him as gay." On the other hand, she draws close attention to his relationship with Grindelwald as having sort of a, I mean, he had a - I wouldn't call it a man-crush. It was an infatuation, but Dumbledore was...

Ben: [laughs] A man-crush.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: I'm just saying, Dumbledore was 16 at the time, and Grindelwald was very powerfully minded, and they sort of tried to - I mean, now I'm just hearing all these jokes about Grindelwald being in his jail cell and Dumbledore going to visit him, and there's all sorts of- you know? But I just - I'm tired of hearing that stuff. But it's really a question of did that relationship continue, and some of the questions in the show notes, was Grindelwald gay, too, or what was the deal with that? And sort of, Grindelwald really hurt Albus' sister, and did he kill Kendra? So, how exactly did that go down? I just think people want a little more clarification, as well as to what exactly that means because people were asking, "What does that mean?" And then everybody in the room...

Micah: But who cares?

Andrew: That's the thing.

Eric: Prejudice gets all into...

Andrew: It's not that big of a deal. It's a fun fact.

Eric: And I said jokingly after this event when we were walking back to the hotel, I said, "You know what? The fandom is dying down, news was slow. I think Jo just did this to just get the fandom rolling again." But I was kidding.

[Laura laughs]

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: No, but it definitely, all of a sudden, Harry Potter, you know, the books and the hype is starting to die down, and then "Oh my god, the old white-haired dude is gay!"

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, it explodes. Yeah, I mean, I knew this was more press than Book 7 coming out, almost.

Eric: I think so, too, actually

Andrew: It's up there. It was the number one story on Digg last week. The top story in all topics for one day.

Laura: That's ridiculous.

Eric: Still, I don't think it's publicity. She has to consider like...

Andrew: It's not publicity.

Eric: I just think, is it? Yeah. It can't be publicity. Like Micah said, it was a legitimate question. I'm just wondering if it hurt more people than it saved.

Andrew: Well, it didn't hurt...

Laura: It doesn't hurt anybody. It's ridiculous.

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: Anyone who hurt from that was taking it the wrong way.

Andrew: Yeah, and needs to get a life.

Eric: I'm not talking about the people you heard from, Ben. I'm talking about the people who - like the children, whose parents are banning them from the books or some [omitted]. I mean, I agree that that's ignorant.

Banning Books From Children

Andrew: Okay, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. Hold on, wait. First of all, we have no evidence parents are banning the children from the books, just because of that. I mean, there's no storyline in the actual books themselves.

Ben: But I can see that though.

Laura: And the thing is, there are a lot of...

Andrew: Could you?

Laura: People I've heard from, even here at school, that have come up to me and say, I'm not upset that Dumbledore's gay, but I'm upset she took that ambiguity out of the books. And my first response is, well, you've already finished reading the books, so what does it matter to you, and my second response is even though she said he's gay, it's still open in the books. You can read that so many different ways. It could have been simply down to the fact that Dumbledore and Grindelwald had a deep intellectual relationship. It didn't necessarily have to be sexual. If you want to read it that way, that's your perogative, but she's the author, and she has a right to sit there and call out the facts when she's asked questions.

Andrew: And it's her characters.

Eric: Yeah. But that makes it a fact in the book. That - if she always believed he is gay, is he even without it being canon, words in the books? That's the question of what becomes - who's the author of a text, who determines meaning, if it's not written in the book, does it still mean something? And I mean, just like any question she'll answer that's post after the fact would you consider it as canon, or - I mean, she's giving canon answers, so yes, it is canon, in a way. But, again, I mean, what you said the person said, they take the ambiguity out of the books, and I'm just worried that it will work sort of against the series.

Laura: There is plenty of ambiguity still there in the books.

Eric: I mean, I'm not saying it should. It shouldn't.

Ben: I agree with where Eric is coming from here. I thought about the same thing. Isn't this going to give more fire to the religious fanatics who are saying - the Laura Mallory camp?

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Who cares though?

Ben: Isn't it going to give a lot more fire to them?

Laura: You're never going to change the minds of those people, so why does it matter?

Ben: I'm just saying that there are some people who would like Harry Potter and ignore the religious objections, but when something like homosexuality comes into play, even though it's not actually in the books, the fact that the author said that, everyone is talking about it, everyone knows that Dumbledore is gay now, would definitely add - fuel the fire of the people who want to ban the book.

Eric: Hey, look, Ben, I mean, I just don't want to think of Dumbledore as sexual, let alone homosexual, or heterosexual. I thought of Dumbledore in the books as - he's the role model.

Laura: He's asexual. [laughs]

Eric: He's the wise old wizard, but he's so much more intelligent. There are so many allegories that Dumbledore makes about - and so many things he tells Harry about "the high and lonely path," about "being cleverer than more men, your mistakes are bigger, but it's lonely." And if all that was just sort of talk because he was having some kind of difficulties in a relationship in his current situation, I just think I would view Dumbledore as non-sexual, or asexual, let alone...

Laura: I don't know. I don't think so because...

Ben: Wouldn't have been awesome if Jo would have come out and announced that Dumbledore as metrosexual?

[Everybody laughs]

Ben: That would have really shaken up the fandom right there.

Laura: The idea of Dumbledore as somebody - I mean it's a very Kantian idea that, you know? I live my life without any sort of sexual - you know, any sort of sexual relationship, whether that relationship is purely mental, or whether it's actually physical. And I don't think Dumbledore would operate that way because...

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: ...he continually emphasizes the importance of love.

Andrew: Right, yep.

Laura: So, him to you know - no. He's not a Emmaneul Kant, thank god.

Ben: Regardless of which set of genitals Dumbledore prefers...

[Laura laughs]

Ben: It doesn't change the fact that he was an absolute pimp.

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely.

Ben: The things he did! You know what I mean, who else could blast a room full or aurors? I don't care - I don't care if he likes other guys, you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Little guys?

Eric: Not little guys, he's not a pedophile.

Laura: He said other guys.

Ben: Other guys, not little guys.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Then Flitwick would be in trouble.

[Andrew laughs]

The Fandom's Acceptance

Laura: And what it comes down to is, I'm sorry, there is nothing wrong with being gay, so just get over it. Like, that's what I have to say. Chill out. Please.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Well put, Laura.

Ben: I don't have a problem with putting my opinion about that out there. I mean...

Laura: No, me neither.

Ben: Someone - I can argue with someone all day about that so if you have a problem with it...

Andrew: Well, here's...

Ben: ...take me on.

Andrew: Here's one very good thing...

Ben: You know what, guys? I need a whole keg of butterbeer for this one.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: You know what I mean? This issue just gets me so fired up.

Andrew: I know. Well, here's one good thing about the Harry Potter fandom. The fandom is very...

Laura: [laughing] Diverse?

Andrew: ...accepting of gay people.

Eric: Didn't you say, Laura, before the show that 75% of the fandom...

Laura: Eric, we can't say that.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: We'll leave that out.

Andrew: We will - we will say there's a large...

Laura: There is a gay community within the Harry Potter fandom.

Andrew: Well, yes.

Ben: I'm not going to lie. Yeah, that's totally true. I grew up in Kansas, you know, and Kansas has - is not very tolerant of homosexuals and I didn't meet a person who was gay until - it was - it was through Harry Potter! It was through the Harry Potter fandom that I met a lot of gay people, and it - I'm not saying - of course, I just preached about gay rights and how I support gay rights so, obviously, I'm not saying it's a bad thing that I've met those people because they're wonderful people. There's a lot of homosexuals I've met that are absolutely great people.

Eric: Same.

Andrew: Mhm. And I'll say right now and - there's more than one, at the least, bisexual person producing MuggleCast. And everyone's accepting of it. Everyone is very embraceful of it, we'll say. And there are even more people - I'm not trying to out anyone - there are even more people on MuggleNet who are. And it's amazing just because even the people on staff are, you know, very accepting of it and it helps them get through it.

Laura: And the thing is, like, no one even gives it a second thought. That's the thing. We just don't care.

Eric: No, it's true.

Andrew: Right, right.

Eric: Harry Potter spoke to all of us, you know what I saying? I mean, these books have been so amazing. They get people of all different types and everything into the fandom. That's what makes our fandom, sort of - I don't want to say the best, but, you know, our fandom is really cool like that. And, you know, Harry Potter speaks to such mass amounts of people. Not just girls, not just guys, that sort of thing. It speaks to everyone.

Tangent: Aberforth and The Goats

Micah: Then, what does it speak to if it doesn't speak to men and women?

Andrew: Dude, Micah, you got to get closer to the mic.

Eric: It speaks to goat lovers!

Micah: Sorry.

Eric: Yeah, you do.

Andrew: Yeah. It speaks to goat lovers.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Goat lovers. [laughs]

Andrew: We are very accepting of goat lovers.

Laura: Uh...well.

Andrew: If there are any of you in the closet, so to speak, please e-mail in.

Ben: See, I mean,I mean, come on, if anything, if anything is disgusting - I mean, you know what I mean?

Andrew: Yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Ben: People think that...

Laura: A goat.

Ben: Homosexuals are disgusting, but come on, there's a dude in the series who loves the goat.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: Why is everyone freaking out about that, you know what I mean?

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, I mean...

Andrew: That's a great point.

Ben: You see, not only was Dumbledore gay, but his brother was in love with goats, you know? It's gross.

Andrew: Yeah. What was his sister into, you got to wonder?

Eric: You know, some people...

Ben: What a weird family.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: You know what, I have my own interpretation about what happened with his sister, actually, but that's probably for another show.

Eric: Some people feel bad for the mother, because your son's into goats - your one son's into goats, your other son's into guys and your daughter gets killed, so you won't have any grandkids, you know?

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Fair point.

Eric: Someone said that. That shouldn't even be funny. Somebody said that.

Micah: That's horrible.

Ben: What did he say?

Andrew: No, that's very...

Eric: You should feel bad for Dumbledore's mother, you know, just because the parental thing is to always, sort of, want grandkids. And Dumbledore would adopt...

Ben: But he could adopt.

Eric: He'd have to find a mate, and he's so intelligent that...

Andrew: He can adopt, he can adopt. It's true.

Eric: See, I didn't think Dumbledore was compatible with anyone because of how intelligent he was.

Ben: Actually, I heard men can get pregnant in the wizarding world.

Andrew: That could happen, you know?

Eric: Yeah, or they could turn themselves...

Andrew: Men have holes, too.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Into - they could use Polyjuice. Whoa, Andrew! That's uncalled for.

Ben: I'd take that part out. You would know.

[Everyone laughs]

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