Muggle Mail: Amycus Carrow

Micah: The next one comes from Julia, 13, of California, and this one is my mistake from last week:

"Hi there, on Episode 121 you were talking about an untrained Death Eater with a wheezy giggle. I was under the impression that this death eater was Amycus Carrow. This is just what I assumed from the CD's, because I'm pretty sure this Death Eater had the same voice as Amycus. Love the show. Bye."

So, that clears up the mystery character...

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: I think, Andy, didn't you say that, though, last week, too?

Andy: Yeah. I said that. So, one to me?

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Oh? Good work. [laughs] Good work, Julia - er, Andy.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Are you saying Julia just copied off of you?

Andrew: Maybe.

Andy: No. I - I think I read it somewhere so I can't really take credit for it.

[Andy laughs]

Micah: Oh.

Andrew: I think Andy already discussed it on the Harry Potter FanZoneCast.

Micah: Oh.

Andy: Sure did.

Muggle Mail: The Source

Andrew: And the last email today comes from Matthew, 17, of Biloxi, Mississippi, about our Chapter-by-Chapter segment talking about Chapter 1:

"I was listening to Episode 121 and when ya'll were doing the Chapter by Chapter there was a detail that ya'll did not address, on top of page four U.S. edition. After Snape gives Voldemort the information on moving Harry and Voldemort using Legilimency on Snape, Voldemort begins the question, 'Good. Very good. And this information comes--' but Snape interrupts with '--from the source we discussed.' I was wondering who this source could possibly be. No way it could be Dumbledore's portrait because he would have no way of knowing the plans of the Order and it most likely would not go too well with Voldie if Snape was conversing with Dumbledore's portrait. Just wondering what you guys think. Thanks. Matthew."

Laura: What I'm wondering is why Andrew doesn't know how to say "ya'll."

Andrew: How do you say it?

Laura: You were sitting there going "ya all." It's "ya'll."

Andrew: Ya'll.

Laura: Ya'll. You're going to Texas next summer! You need to learn how to say these things!

Matt: Geez. You need to brush up on your colloquialism.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: Well, I think I'm - I definitely agree that it's not Dumbledore's portrait.

Micah: Well, I thought it was Mundungus. I thought that was the whole point of Harry...

Laura: Yeah...

Micah: Seeing that scene in the end.

Andrew: Oh.

Laura: I - yeah, I agree with Micah. I think that's what it would have to be. I can't think of anything else.

Micah: I think the source should be almost in quotation marks because it's not a real source. It was just Snape sort of taking advantage of Mundungus.

Laura: Yeah. He was using him as a scapegoat.

Matt: Well, didn't Dumbledore and Snape discuss about this before they - before he died, too? Like, they were going to move him on his birthday? Or something?

Laura: Mhm. Yeah.

Matt: So, so, maybe Snape just interrupted him before he could read his mind and said this before Voldemort found out the truth or something.

Micah: Right.

Matt: Do you...

Micah: But I would still think there would have to be somebody, like, between Snape and Voldemort. The source would have to be an actual person. And I don't think he would trust Dumbledore. You know?

Laura: Yeah.

Matt: Oh, okay.

Chapter-by-Chapter: In Memoriam

Andrew: Yeah. It's time to move on now to Chapter-by-Chapter. We're going on to take on Chapter 2 this week, which once you read it, it's - it's a very basic chapter. I mean, really all that's happening here is Harry's still at the Dursley's house and he picks up these two newspaper articles with, of course, differing opinions on Dumbledore. So are you guys ready to go?

Laura: Yeahhh.

Micah: Yeah!

Andrew: Let's do it! Let's go and do it. Here we go! A few things I want to talk about this week, and we're going to go by the U.S. page numbers this week. I guess, maybe Andy can translate them if he wants to.

Andy: Yeah, I'll try and find 'em.

Doge's Mutual Attraction

Andrew: Okay. First one. Page 16. I'm sorry, but I have to do it.

Laura: Oh boy.

Andrew: In the beginning of the first article, titled "Albus Dumbledore Remembered," I quote . . .

Andy: 21 in the U.K. edition.

Andrew: Oh, thank you. "I met Albus Dumbledore at the age of 11 on our first day at Hogwarts. [shouts] OUR MUTUAL ATTRACTION was undoubtedly due to the fact that we both felt ourselves to be outsiders."

Matt: Well, didn't he have pimples all over his face? Isn't that why he sees himself as an outsider?

Laura: That's right, he had dragon pox. Yeah.

Andy: Dragon pox.

Matt: Yeah! Dragon pox!

Andrew: Well, okay, yes. You could say the mutual attraction is not relationship-able – to create a new word, but [laughs] doesn't this suggest that, that Elph – how do you pronounce her name?

Laura: Elphias? El-fee-us? I don't know.

Matt: Elf-phias?

Andrew: Elphias. Just call her Elephant.

Laura: You mean him.

Andrew: That Elephant Dog was attracted to Dumbledore in a romantic sort of way?

Laura: Mmmm. I mean, I guess it's . . .

Matt: Not everybody's gay.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Yeah, I guess it's possible. Not to mention, just because you have a mutual attraction to somebody doesn't mean that it's sexual. Like...

Andrew: But Laura, because of recent events I've been forced to assume things when I read the word attraction with someone else and Dumbledore.

Matt: [laughs] Geez.

Micah: I thought that Doge was a guy.

Andrew: So, what I'm trying to say here is, we knew all along that Dumbledore was gay. Right from the start of Chapter 2!

Laura: No. We didn't...

Matt: No we didn't.

Andrew: Mutual attraction.

Laura: Okay! Friends have mutual attractions.

Andrew: I cannot name one person I've had a mutual attraction to.

Matt: God. You find out one character is gay and then the entire wizarding world...

Laura: You have mutual attractions to all of your friends.

Andrew: If I go up to a straight guy right now and I say, "Dude, I'm attracted to you." He's going to be like, "Dude, you're gay."

Laura: But you wouldn't say it that way because people like you take it wrong!

Dumbledore and The Mirror of Erised

Andrew: Here's something we never really discussed after Deathly Hallows came out. Page 21, Harry thinks back to when he asked Dumbledore what did he see when he looked into the mirror. And I thought it would be fun to discuss it now, especially since we know that Dumbledore's gay.

[Matt laughs]

Andrew: Matt had something when this revelation was first revealed.

Matt: Well, no. That was just the first question I had when you guys told me that Dumbledore was gay. After the two hours of you guys screaming at us in the hotel room. "Oh my god, he's gay!"

Laura: Well, it took it a while to convince you.

Matt: Well, we didn't believe you at first. Well, come on, the first thing... Seriously, you were banging on the door, we opened it and you screamed in my face, "HE'S GAY!"

Andrew: Because it was big news! But actually, come to think of it - did we discuss this on the show afterwards?

Laura: I feel like we've discussed it.

Micah: I think it came up a little bit.

Laura: Yeah, a little bit but not a lot.

Micah: In Eric's whole "pig for slaughter" thing.

Laura: "I hate Deathly Hallows" discussion.

Andrew: I mean, now that we've seen the back story, I would in all seriousness think he would actually see his family.

Laura: Oh yeah, definitely.

Andrew: Like Harry.

Laura: I think that he would see his family before they were broken. You know, it's not just seeing them, but it's seeing them as they were before all this terrible stuff befell them.

Micah: Right.

Andrew: Right.

Micah: I think Jo actually said that, I'm not sure where though.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. I'm sure she said something along those lines. It only makes sense.

Dumbledore's Lies

Micah: Yeah, and this kind of comes after Harry learns everything about Dumbledore's family in the first article that was written and he realizes that this is really the only personal question that he has ever asked Dumbledore throughout the entire six years that he knew him, and what's interesting about it is that he knew Dumbledore lied when he said that he saw socks. So, the only personal question that Harry ever asked Dumbledore, Dumbledore answered with a lie. And, so I just thought that was kind of interesting given Eric's whole take about Harry being raised this sort of "pig for slaughter" and him never knowing really what Dumbledore's true intentions were throughout the course of the series.

Andrew: Not just that, but he didn't know Dumbledore at all.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: He just knew him as the Headmaster. He...

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: He couldn't see into him. He couldn't understand anything from him.

Laura: But I mean, you think about other people who in your life are authority figures and other people that you seek for advice. How often do you actually ask them about their personal lives? Because if you start getting into personal lives with these people it makes them so much more human and I think that it wasn't necessarily just something that Dumbledore was keeping from Harry. I think that on a subconscious level, it was a way in which Harry could keep Dumbledore up on a pedestal. You know? Higher above everyone else.

Micah: Yeah. But at the same time, it started the process of lies, and it started the process of Dumbledore not being truthful with Harry just from that point. You know? Already in Sorcerer's Stone, he's lying to Harry and he's not telling the truth.

Laura: Yeah, but I think that's part of his humanity.

Andrew: Yeah, I think Laura brings up a good point though about how once you ask an elder or someone you look up to about their personal life, things do change.

Laura: I mean it's kind of like when you have that first dawning realization that your parents can't solve everything. You know, when you're a kid, you think that you can just run up to your parents and ask them and they know everything. When something really serious or terrible happens and there's nothing they can do, it's kind of a shock.

Andrew: Yeah.

Andy: But he's not really lying to Harry to be deceitful or anything. I suppose he's not telling him that because he doesn't really think it's relevant, then.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: At that point he was too young; I mean how could you possibly get into that? "I see my family to because..." It'd take him forever to explain everything.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: But also more on what Laura was saying - maybe Harry subconsciously just didn't want to know more, which is why he didn't ask any more personal questions. Because I'm just trying to put myself into his position. If I had a relationship with my principal, where he was guiding me, I don't know if I wanted to know more about his personal life. Like - it's just irrelevant.

Laura: No, I mean it just feels somewhat inappropriate. It's like walking up to your teacher and being like, "Hey what did you do last night?" It's weird. It's awkward to ask people about their personal lives, you stay very formal. We see Harry continue to stay formal with Dumbledore throughout the books. I mean he becomes angry with him but it's only about things that pertain to Harry's personal life. So, I don't know.

Rita Mentions Grindelwald

Andrew: Okay, moving along there's another thing I wanted to talk about on pg. 26. I'm sorry but I just had a dirty mind and I couldn't find anything else to bring up in here.

Matt: I think it's 29 in the U.K edition. I think I know what you're talking about.

Andrew: Rita says "‘Oh, now I'm glad you mentioned Grindelwald,' says Skeeter, with a tantalizing smile. 'I'm afraid those who go dewy-eyed over Dumbledore's spectacular victory must brace themselves for a bombshell - or perhaps a Dungbomb. Very dirty business indeed.'"

Now, if you stop right there you think "Wait, did Rita actually know about the relationship between Grindelwald and Dumbledore?" In all seriousness I read that back and stopped right there to write down the note - I didn't actually continue to read on. But, I really wish Jo included a couple more hints about him. [laughs] Because that would've been a good opportunity, like somehow if Rita Skeeter actually found out that he was gay.

Laura: How would she find out though, I don't think he told anyone.

Andy: Came into his room as a beetle?

Andrew: Yeah...

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Saw Dumbledore on the computer at a couple of things.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: I don't think she was alive, but that's okay.

Andrew: Well you don't - well I'm talking as of late.

Laura: I don't think Dumbledore got up too much in the last...

Micah: One hundred years.

Laura: Seven years.

Andrew: What do you mean, "Got up too much"?

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: What I was saying is I don't think he had time for a romantic life, during the time when he was raising Harry.

Andrew: Oh, I know that's why I said he went on the computer.

Laura: No, but...

[Matt sighs]

Andrew: But anyway, if you read on this paragraph it goes on to say, "All I'll say is, don't be so sure there was the spectacular duel of legend. After they've read my book, people may be forced to conclude that Grindelwald simply conjured a white handkerchief from the end of his wand and came quietly." [laughs]

Laura: You are so wrong! Oh my gosh, these dirty minds.

Micah: Oh boy.

Laura: So Andrew, why don't you enlighten us to the meaning of this passage since you highlighted it, instead of giggling?

Andrew: Well, I just told you! If you stop reading at "very dirty business indeed," one could assume after finding out Dumbledore was gay - one could assume that there was Jo dropping us a hint, and also Rita Skeeter somehow found out. And it could be fun to analyze exactly how she could have possibly found out. [laughs]

Matt: I'm surprised you didn't do this other passage either, the one right after it.

Andrew: What?

Matt: About Harry.

Andrew: Why?

Micah: Well, hold on. Can I just...

Laura: "It's been called unhealthy, even sinister."

Matt: Yeah.

Laura: About their relationship. She says, "the whole Potter Dumbledore relationship."

Matt: "There's no question that Dumbledore took an unnatural interest in Potter from the word 'go.'"

Andrew: So maybe she did know. And I'm not even kidding! What if Rita actually did find out?

Interpreting Rita's Words

Laura: I think if she did, it would have come out in the book. There would be no reason for her to keep that quiet. I think the angle she's trying to play up is Dumbledore has had connections to dark wizards in the past and I think that she's trying to lead people to assume he's guiding this boy who's supposed to defeat Voldemort, yet there was a time when he had a very Nazi-esque view of the way the world should work.

Micah: Right.

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: At the "very dirty business," I thought, had to do with his sister's death and them not really knowing how she died.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Mmm, yeah.

Micah: But, I can see how that could be interpreted a different way.

Matt: Probably, also the thing that... Oh! Well, probably the dirty business was also probably the things Dumbledore and Grindelwald did together too. Just the fact that no one knew how good of friends they were and how well they knew each other and all those other things.

Aberforth

Andrew: Mhm. Okay, so moving onto pg. 29, we get to the part where Harry he sees Aberforth in the mirror. For a flash of a second by that time Harry assumes it's Dumbledore. Did anyone think it actually was Dumbledore in the mirror? I did.

Andy: I really hoped it was but I don't think I ever believed it. Andrew Yeah. Because like...

Laura: I didn't buy that it was Dumbledore but I wasn't sure who it was. Because...

Andrew: Because we had discussed – sorry.

Laura: Sorry, I just trusted Jo when she said that he was dead. You know? The only real way that - I mean, we even saw that she was true to her word. You know, you can't bring the dead back. We had the portrait and then we had Harry's dream/epiphany at King's Cross. So, he never really came back.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: And, she does it right in the last sentence of the chapter, when she says that "if anything it was certain that the bright blue eyes of Albus Dumbledore would never pierce him again."

Andrew: Okay, well...

Micah: So... Well, no. I'm just saying as far as Dumbledore returning, that's kind of what did it for me - when she said that.

Matt: Mhm.

Andrew: Yeah. But, how could Harry be certain? Why would he be so certain? I mean...

Laura: Because he watched him die.

Andrew: But, he thought he had just seen his eye. So, what? Because remember on the show when we were even talking about what if there were a special connection with the two-way mirror? What if we're going to see it again and it's going to be Dumbledore helping Harry via the mirror? Didn't we discuss that on the show?

Laura: We discussed Sirius helping Harry via the mirror.

Andrew: Oh, right.

Laura: Because there was that big theory going around for a long time that Sirius took the mirror through the Veil with him.

Andrew: Right, yeah.

Laura: But he clearly did not. I didn't think it was Dumbledore because we knew that there was really no way for the dead to use that mirror. Like, you're dead. You know?

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Laura: It's not a state in which you can readily communicate with people in that fashion, I don't think.

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