MuggleCast | The #1 Most-Listened to Harry Potter Podcast

MuggleCast 125 Transcript (continued)

Muggle Mail: Chapter Title

Matt: Our next email comes from Kenneth Logan Jr., 20, from Hampton, Virginia. He writes:

"I don't know about ya'll, but when I first saw the chapter title I immediately thought of the Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End scene hallucinates on a ship in Davey Jones' Locker and see's multiple Jacks. I thought Harry was going crazy, or something."

[Andrew and Jamie laugh]

Andrew: I put that e-mail in there for you Jamie.

Jamie: Well, I was oing to say. It's like, yeah, in the eighth book, Harry becomes an alcoholic and starts drinking rum like there's no tomorrow and...

[Andrew, Laura, and Matt laugh]

Jamie: Then he starts hallucinating. But no, no, that's very interesting. I - it was a very clever plan, but I just think, it's magic, there has to be some other way of transporting people. Without magic you can, like, you know, there are ways to get people to places, and this is turning into some kind of conspiracy theory, but there are ways to, you know, to sort of bring people to different places secretly. But then I thought...

Laura: Like what?

Jamie: Well, Laura, it's a secret. That's why, you know, no one knows.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: But, like, Delta Force and the Navy Seals SAS, I'm sure, have ways.

Matt: Yeah.

Jamie: But, like, I just mean - but then magic cancels that out because if one side can do it, than the other side can do it as well. So, it just becomes hard still. But it was a good plan, but I just don't know - surely they could have mixed everything up, like - it's like everyone puts their wands into, like, a pot and then they pull out wands and each person turns into that person, so everyone's different. So, they can't possibly tell who's who. So, you have, like...

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: ...two Moodys, four Kingsleys, eight Harrys, you know? So...

Matt: Yeah, did they have to do - did they even have to multiply Harry? Couldn't just...

Jamie: Well, yeah.

Matt: ...Harry just takes someone else's Polyjuice Potion and then they just...

Jamie: Exactly, yeah, he could've been anyone, absolutely anyone.

Matt: Yeah.

Jamie: Or they could've - see what I don't understand is why they don't teach him to be an Animagus.

Matt: Animagus, yeah.

Jamie: And then he could be a single-celled organism.

[Andrew, Jamie and Laura laugh]

Jamie: So no one can see him unless Voldemort carries around a microscope.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: They could lose him that way.

Matt: I was questioning about that chapter - oh, sorry.

Laura: No, I was just saying they could lose him very easily.

Jamie: [laughs] Yeah, they could!

Laura: You get back to the Burrow and it's like he doesn't change back and they're like...

Jamie: Yeah. [laughs]

Laura: Oh. Whoops.

Jamie: That would suck.

Andrew: That's funny.

Matt: Mhm.

The Eighth Book

Andrew: That's very funny. You know, there's one more story I forgot to put in the news here and I think it's worth noting. Well, we did talk about it. J.K. is TIME's second runner-up Person of the Year, but she - there was a new little interview with her in this article and let me quote what she said.

"There have been times since finishing - weak moments - when I've said 'Yeah, all right,' to the eighth novel. If, and it's a big if, I ever write an eighth book about the wizarding world, I doubt that Harry would be the central character. I feel like I've already told his story. But these are big ifs. Let's give it ten years and see how we feel then."

Jamie: Hmmm.

Andrew: To me, it seems like Jo is leaving it a lot more open...

Jamie: She is. Hinting, isn't she?

Andrew: ...than she has in the past.

Laura: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah.

Jamie: There's so much more she can write, though. There really is.

Matt: I know.

Jamie: I wouldn't be surprised if she did write something else.

Laura: Well, yeah. Why doesn't she write about James Potter and Elder's Crossing?

Matt: Yeah.

Laura: Isn't that the new one?

Andrew: Right. [laughs]

Jamie: Yeah.

Matt: Or, like, Snape's story.

Jamie: Yeah!

Matt: Or something.

Jamie: There's so much. There really is.

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely.

Matt: Or even Dumbledore and Grindelwald.

Jamie: That would be so cool!

Matt: A tale of lost lovers or something.

Jamie: That would be the NC-17 book, Matt, but...

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: That would be a romance novel.

Jamie: That would be the romance novel.

Andrew: I would love...

[Matt laughs]

Andrew: Seriously!

Matt: I was just seeing two very muscular wizards in one of those romantic novel covers...

[Everyone laughs]

Matt: Just as a joke...

Jamie: That would be, oh yeah.

Matt: And their hair.

Jamie: Grindelwald looked at Albus. And Albus looked at Grindelwald. Albus and Grindelwald looked at each other. Wow. I might write it.

Andrew: [laughs] I - it just seems like, you know, it was left open more than we've heard her say in the past.

Jamie: It was. Yeah.

Chapter-by-Chapter: Fallen Warrior

Andrew: We'll see. We'll see. Alright, let's move on to Chapter-by-Chapter now. This week we have Chapter 5: Fallen Warrior, and also Chapter 6: Ghoul in Pajamas. We're going to start doing two chapters a week now to wrap things up by April. So we're going to make one minor change. We're just going to highlight the top three events in each chapter, rather than the top five. Other than that, everything else is still the same. So we'll start off - we'll start off withFallen Warrior, and this is the chapter where everyone arrives at the Burrow and Harry and the rest of them all anxiously await each new pair to arrive at the Burrow. So first of all, when you're reading this chapter, it's set up very well because it begins - the chapter title is called Fallen Warrior, so the readers know that somebody is going to die.

Matt: Yes.

Andrew: But at the same time, what's great about this chapter is that you are waiting along with everyone else. And although they don't know who is going to die, they feel like someone may because it was a dangerous journey and they seem to be set on believing that something is going to happen. So the whole time we're waiting and we're following we are with the characters.

Matt: We are also left at the end of the chapter thinking that probably Hagrid died anyway.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: And I - I thought it was either Hagrid or even Hedwig because...

Andrew: Huh?

Laura: Hedwig was devastating.

Andrew: Hedwig was - well, he was already dead.

Laura: I know, but...

Matt: It's a she, for one.

Andrew: She. I'm sorry.

Matt: There you go.

Laura: I was mortified when I read that. I couldn't believe it.

Jamie: What?

Laura: I was so upset. That Hedwig was dead!

Jamie: That Hedwig died?

Laura: Oh my god.

Jamie: Laura, you've got to see the bigger picture. She's just an owl. I know, you know, obviously, she's...

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: She is an important character and, obviously, the symbolism of the pureness and the whiteness is very important and it shows something dear to Harry, but, you know?

Laura: But then he, like...

Matt: She's just an owl.

Jamie: Well, yeah.

Laura: Didn't he kind of like, blow her up on accident after she died too?

Jamie: [laughs] Yeah, he did.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: [laughs] Wow. That's got to suck.

Matt: Well, if it makes you feel better, Laura, she didn't feel a thing.

[Jamie laughs]

Laura: Yeah, but can you imagine blowing up your pet?

Jamie: It was closure, though. It was closure. He could still see her and he was like, "She's got to go, she's got to go."

Matt: Some kind of closure, though.

Jamie: Yeah, it is.

How did the Death Eaters Know Who Harry Was?

Andrew: That's that for that first point, I guess. Next point Harry and Lupin discuss how the Death Eaters find out that he was the real Harry and we were talking about this briefly last week. Lupin even describes Expelliarmus as his signature move and it's funny because Ben's always been calling it his signature move, but I guess Ben read it out of one of the chapters, I don't think he remembers.

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: I don't think he remembers that it was an actual chapter. And then, even after Lupin yells at Harry to stop doing it, Harry continues to use the spell through the rest of the book. Would it be fair to say that, even though, you know, we may have thought that this was Jo's - a fault in Jo's writing, maybe Harry kept using it just to because he was so confident in the spell, and he felt that this would get him through until the end. Because obviously it did, but why do you think he kept using it? Do you guys have any input on this?

Jamie: Wasn't it more of his defiance and stubbornness rather than, his sort of confidence in it? He won't and it's altruism as well he won't kill people that are just there, you know? He's it does show something about his character. It also shows, perhaps, he doesn't... I mean he obviously does appreciate the implications of where he is and the war he's in, but perhaps he doesn't, sort of, you know, like the adults are supposed to be more sensible, obviously, and they see that there's a need for killing in that. And obviously, you know, the Order of the Phoenix has to be against killing because it's Dumbledore's thing and he hated Horcruxes and that kind of thing, but for Harry to only use Expelliarmus and not Avada Kedavra and things like that, is both defiant and it shows him as a good character, but it also shows him as a bit stubborn and perhaps immature depending on how you look at it, because the time there was over for, you know, disarming. If you read that chapter, it's a family torn apart, because people argue about stuff they wouldn't normally argue about in the heat of the moment and, you know, people are dying all over the place. So, I mean like, I like to think if I was there with a wand, had magical powers inside a book, I would Avada Kedavra people, but then, you know, it's a lot harder to do.

Matt: But he also has to mean it.

Jamie: He has to mean it as well, exactly.

Matt: I think he believes that he can never do an Unforgivable Curse because he knows that he'll never actually mean to kill someone.

Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. I agree completely. Like, when he does the Imperius Curse is completely different to Avada Kedavra because, you know, he obviously thinks there is never any need to kill someone, whereas the Imperius Curse had to be done in Gringotts when he was...

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah, I can - yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. The thing that go me about this was that even Lupin was berating him for this and I thought that was sort of that should've been a wake up call to Harry. The Death Eaters know that this is your spell and they're prepared for it. They're prepared to fight it off.

Matt: I think he was really upset with Lupin though, only due to the fact that, you know, he's seen Lupin as his uncle...

Andrew: Mhm.

Matt: ...sort of, and this is the first time he's actually defiant to Harry.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: He's kind of upset with Harry because he's not really I don't really know. Why do you think he's a little upset with Harry in this chapter?

Andrew: Just because I think he set himself up for possible death.

Matt: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: And, I mean, he gave his cover away. That was the most important thing. He blew his cover.

Jamie: It was also because Lupin, even though he was the best of friends with James, knew that he was a flawed character and he's seen those flaws in Harry. And he knows those flaws. Some of them aren't good, although James was altogether a nice guy. He wasn't always nice and he's seeing the defiance in Harry and he likes it. He wants him to improve for father's sake and his parents' sake and for Sirius' sake, I gues.

Andrew: Yeah. He even said that in this chapter. Lupin said, "You remind me of your father, James."

Matt: Yeah.

Jamie: You're father, yeah.

Matt: I don't want to entirely think that the I don't want to say "anger," but the feelings he had towards Harry after he heard about Harry and his Expelliarmus spell, how I don't think it's directed mostly to Harry. It's also to himself, too. He's putting a lot of blame on him for not informing Harry...

Jamie: Yeah, that's very true. Yeah.

Matt: And helping him out.

The Death of Mad-Eye Moody

Andrew: All right, so Mad-Eye Moody is the one who dies in this chapter, we find out. What were you guys' initial reactions to his death? Were you surprised? Did you care?

Laura: I mean...

Matt: I didn't even...

Laura: Oh, sorry Matt...

Matt: Sorry Laura, your turn.

Laura: I was surprised. I wasn't terribly upset by it, I guess. I mean, I always thought Mad-Eye was cool.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: But he wasn't the kind of character I'd cry over.

Andrew: Yeah, I think he was the kind of character we never I never really had a connection to. It was sad and while you're reading their reactions, the characters reactions, to his death, you feel for them but it just doesn't seem like all that of an important death to me.

Laura: I think it was just getting us ready for the bloodbath at the end of the book.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah, I always envisioned him dying in a huge battle or something because that's the kind of person that he's known for - fighting in huge amounts, battling a lot of Death Eaters. I just thought it was kind of a cheap shot for him to die.

Andrew: Yeah, that's what I thought too. It wasn't his right time. Do you guys think he was is it a stupid question to ask if he was the right character to go?

Laura: I don't know, I think at this point in the series a lot of it was about showing that random deaths happen in war, there's not necessarily a reason for it.

Matt: Exactly.

Laura: It just happens.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: Unexpectedly.

Mundungus' Reliability

Andrew: Yeah and also in this chapter they discuss whether or not Mundungus gave up their cover or was he really just panicking. Do you think he was just panicking? Because I mean, I think for anyone saw Voldemort and he was ready to attack them as Harry he would panic, legitimately.

Laura: Yeah, I don't know. I think Mundungus was a weak person to begin with.

Jamie: I don't think he was an evil-minded character. I think it takes a lot and you can see straight away if a character is mentally evil. But he was just out for what he could get. Very, very self-indulgent. Very, very self-specific. He only really cared for himself. Not to say he doesn't care for other people, but I think seeing Voldemort, you have got to appreciate the circumstances. Seeing him is basically instant death, you know?

Andrew: Right.

Jamie: You can't fight Voldemort, it's futile.

Matt: Yeah.

Jamie: It's like even though it's anyone who goes against Voldemort will basically die. It's like if you watch The Matrix - when you fight an Agent, unless you're Neo, you will die.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Jamie: You know? So, it's kind of like that. I don't think he gave up their cover. I think it was literally spur of the moment flight of fight. His adrenaline didn't want to come out and he disappeared. Like, I think a lot more people...

Matt: Well, we know he's loyal too.

Jamie: Exactly, yeah.

Matt: Because he was in the Hog's Head looking over Harry in Book 5.

Jamie: Exactly, yeah.

Jamie: He isn't a bad person...

Matt: He's not stupid.

Jamie: Exactly. I think more people would get into street fights if they knew they could disappear in a blink in of an eye.

Andrew: Right. [laughs]

Jamie: They could just swear at someone and once they came over they just "pop!" and they'd appear in Siberia.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: Yep.

Jamie: So... Go on, sorry.

Matt: Maybe when he Apparated it was an instinct or something.

Jamie: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Matt: Like if I saw Voldemort my first instinct would be to get the hell out of there.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, I really don't think magic would hold up in the real world. If you think about bringing magic into our society today, I think our world would just be a mess.

Jamie: Oh it would be completely.

Matt: It would be gone. It wouldn't even be there.

Andrew: The reason I say that is Jamie's point about people just Apparating after they've picked a fight. This world would be so bad.

Laura: Yeah.

Tribute to Moody

Andrew: Let's move onto Chapter 6 now, The Ghoul in Pajamas. Laura, do you want to handle this one?

Laura: Yeah sure, this is the chapter in which the Weasleys are busy...

Andrew: Oh wait, wait, wait, oh - sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

Laura: Are you trying to interrupt me?

Andrew: No, no, no, I forgot Song Memory and Favorite Lines.

Laura: Fine, fine.

Andrew: Okay before we go onto our next chapter, we're going to start a new thing now. Every time there is a death in the book we're going to play a clip of a song in their memory.

Matt: Really? [laughs]

Andrew: And the song will relate to the character. This was actually Micah's idea, so props to him. So, now we take a moment to remember Mad-Eye Moody.

[Eye of the Tiger plays]

Jamie: Godspeed, Mad-Eye.

Andrew: I'm crying a bit, it's kind of sad.

Jamie: I think that's a nice word, "Godspeed." It's so under used these days.

Favorite Lines

Andrew: It is. Anyway. Also, favorite lines from this chapter! I just put in one, "What was the last thing Albus Dumbledore spoke to the pair of us?" Was that Weasley to Kingsley or was it vice-versa?

Jamie: It was Kingsley to Luna.

Andrew: Yeah, my bad. "Harry's the best hope we have. Trust him."

[Everyone "awwws"]

Jamie: That is nice. That is nice.

Jamie: You think he'd say good-bye, last of all though.

[Everyone laughs]

Matt: Yeah. [laughs]

Jamie: "Harry's the best hope we have. Trust him." Right. "I'm off to die! See you all later."

Matt: [impersonating Dumbledore] "Harry's the best choice we have."

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: [laughs] Oh man, that was just a shame. And too bad Molly didn't listen to that quote.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, really.

Andrew: I would think Molly was in the room because then Molly raises the fuss about - which leads us into Chapter 6, The Ghoul in Pajamas.

Matt: I keep hearing "The Golden Pajamas."

Laura: The Gold...

Jamie: The Golden Pajamas.

Jamie: Matt, Matt, that's the sequel to The Golden Compass.

Laura: The Golden Compass.

[Everyone laughs]

Tangent: The Golden Compass

Andrew: Hey, good thing you brought that up! Jamie can we just do a quick Golden Compass review before we get to the next chapter?

Jamie: Okay, but don't spoil it please.

Andrew: No, we won't, it was okay.

Matt: Oh my god! Did you see this one part of the film? It was so good.

[Andrew and Jamie laugh]

Laura: I heard it was awful like, in terms of being an adaption.

Andrew: Yeah, it was. It was not...

Laura: I haven't seen it yet but I've read the book and the book is fantastic.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: The movie, I heard they took out every bit of religious symbolism or any...

Andrew: Yes...

Laura: Oh gosh.

Matt: Yeah they did.

Laura: That's ridiculous.

Andrew: They did. And...

Matt: It is.

Andrew: I got an e-mail saying that they took out the last ten chapters of the book.

Laura: What?

Matt: Yeah!

Jamie: That's bad.

Matt: Yeah they - they took out like a huge - they filmed it and everything but what they're going to do is, kind of like with the Two Towers in Lord of the Rings, they're going to - they took the ending from the first movie and they're going to put it in the beginning of the second one.

Laura: Where did the first where did The Golden Compass end?

Matt: If there's a second one. It's a toss-up right now if there's even going to be a second film. So pretty much they just took out the ending and then just threw it away.

Laura: Where did the film end?

Matt: The film ended with well, I don't want to spoil it because Jamie's going to watch it.

Andrew: It ended with a long speech.

Matt: It ended with the blimp.

Laura: What?

Matt: Right after the big fight.

Laura: Oh my god.

Matt: Yeah.

Laura: Oh okay, yeah, no. That's all I have to say, no.

Matt: Yeah.

Andrew: Yes.

Matt: Yeah. That was pretty much everyone's reaction to when they saw it.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: I went, "Are you serious?"

Andrew: Yeah, it was a bit of a letdown. But, I do have to say the polar bear fights were very cool though. The polar bears in general were very cool.

Matt: Well I liked my favorites are just the daemons in general. I just thought that whole concept was perfect.

Laura: Okay and can...

Matt: I want a daemon.

Laura: Can some listeners please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was almost positive that in the book it's pronounced like "day-mon." Not "demon."

Andrew: They say "demons" in the movie.

Laura: Why would you call them demons? They're so worried about all of the...

Matt: Yeah, so... Because they say it in the movie.

Laura: No, no, no. I don't think that's how it's said in the book. But...

Andrew: I don't know.

Matt: Well the "a" and the "e" are connected, so isn't it its own letter too?

Laura: I thought it was "day-mon," but I know that...

Matt: It's like "day-e-mons."

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Well, they're so concerned about fundamentalists, you know, boycotting this film and yet they call these extensions of people's souls daemons.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Yeah, it's funny.

Matt: Maybe it's just the American version of daemon.

Andrew: Maybe. That could be it.

Jamie: Damon! [laughs] Isn't he a Senior Staff Member?

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Oh!

Matt: Matt Damon.

Andrew: I wonder what Damon's daemon is?

Jamie: It's a small version of himself.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Damon daemon.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Encyclopaedia. That's what it should be.

Chapter-by-Chapter: The Ghoul in Pajamas

Andrew: Well, let's move on now to Chapter 6, Laura. Sorry, I won't to interrupt you this time.

Laura: Yeah ok.

Andrew: That was the Matt and Andrew Movie Review! Ho! Back to you.

Laura: Yay. Okay so, this is Chapter 6, The Ghoul in Pajamas. It's the chapter where the Weasleys are busy with wedding preparations for Bill and Fleur and throughout the entire chapter, Mrs. Weasley is completely annoying with her attempts to distract Harry, Ron, and Hermione...

Jamie: She is.

Laura: ...from doing their mission. We also begin learning some of the basics about Horcruxes.

Matt: Mhm.

Is Mrs. Weasley Too Overprotecting?

Laura: So, let's see. The first thing we have here is: Mrs. Weasley's motherly concern with what she's throughout the entire chapter she barges in on them during the few moments the trio have together to try and discuss what they're going to do. There's one point where they're in Ron's room and she comes in and tells them to go sort presents or something. They're also outside at one point and she interrupts them. So, my question is - is Mrs. Weasley right to let her motherly concern get in the way of what they need to do?

Andrew: Yes!

Matt: She doesn't know what they need to do.

Andrew: Well that's the other thing.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: But, I don't know. I think a lot of this kind of relates to and I don't want to get too opinionated here, but when there's a war going on, people who are for the war tend to say, "Well, it's something that is worth dying for." But people who are against the war...

Jamie: Isn't that worth fighting for?

Laura: People who are against it say, "It's not worth dying for," and I think it's I think it's, I don't know. I see you...

Matt: Well she's also in a state of shock over her son, too. She doesn't want anything else to happen.

Jamie: Yeah.

Matt: Pretty much her adrenaline is running and her motherly instinct is just taking over...

Laura: Oh, I think so too.

Matt: ...pretty much all of her actions too.

Jamie: I think it's quite I mean, like, when we were Andrew do you remember this? We were I can't remember where we were but, we were sitting after a podcast on the live tour and this lady came up to us and just said, "Never underestimate the power of a mother's love."

Andrew: Yes!

Jamie: So, I'd say it's quite, you know, tough for us to say should she let this go in the way or shouldn't she. I think it's probably not possible for her to stop it getting in the way. You know, a parent's concern for their children often overrides any instinct or anything like that.

Matt: Yes.

Jamie: So, saying that, it's probably a hindrance for Harry, Ron, and Hermione to do it; but it's something that has to be dealt with and dealt with accordingly.

Andrew: Right.

Laura: Mhm.

Matt: Right.

Andrew: And Mrs. Weasley is nothing but concerned. I mean, when you think about it, they are going out to fight Voldemort. I mean - that's - she knows that's what they're doing, or at least...

Jamie: Exactly, yeah!

Andrew: What their mission relates to. So, it's very scary for a mother. And yeah, what it comes down to is - it's the mother's protection. But there's nothing she can do about it, you know?

Laura: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah. But, I mean - still, I think, we can all pretty much figure that our parents, our mother, would do the same thing.

Laura: Oh, for sure!

Jamie: Yeha.

Matt: So...

Andrew: Well, let me give you a sort of example.

Matt: Okay.

Andrew: I've said on this show maybe, or maybe at least on Pickle Pack, that - I think it was just on Pickle Pack - that I plan on moving to California. My mom hates this idea. However, she knows that I'm going to do it no matter what. And one time she even said to me, "I don't really want you to do it but I know I can't stop you." So... [laughs] That's basically the same way....

Jamie: Awww! Don't laugh, Andrew! That's lovely!

Andrew: I'm not laughing, that's very nice, I know.

Matt: My mother would never do that.

[Jamie and Andrew laughs]

Andrew: What's that, Laura?

Laura: My Mom kind of did the same thing when I moved to Maryland.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: It's sad for Mom because she's losing her child. When you think about it, if I was in her position or, even say, if my brother or my sister decided to leave, at first I'd be like, "Good riddance!" But then after a while, I'd realize that I probably do miss them a bit. [laughs]

Matt: But, you know, I think your mother will see the whole gist of it. I mean, she's not really loosing a son, she's gaining a bedroom!

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: And a recording studio as well! [laughs]

Andrew: [laughs] A recording studio. I'm bringing all the stuff with me.

Jamie: She can start her own podcast.

Andrew: Oh god! Anyway. So, yeah. I think that sums up that point. And I think that woman said it to us best on that tour - "Never underestimate the power mother's love."

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: Yep.

The Trio are Growing Up

Laura: And I think that kind of ties into the next point, about how a lot of the time, parents kind of struggle with the idea of their kids growing up. You know? In Order of the Phoenix, she continually insists that Harry is too young to be told any of what the Order is doing. Even in this chapter, she says about Dumbledore that: "Probably he was telling you to do something he wanted done, and you took it to mean he wanted you to do it."

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: So we see, even though she has a great deal of love for him, she still treats him like a kid. Like he couldn't possibly understand the concept.

Matt: Yeah.

Jamie: But isn't she more trying to get any excuse to get them to not do it?

Laura: Oh, I think so.

Jamie: It's like - logic gets completely out of the window when it comes to that. And although she can be annoying - and to me, she is one of the most annoying characters in the - I don't like how she interferes into everything. Like, there are things you have to do alone, there are things you don't do with your mother's guidance. And stuff like that. Although she is caring and means well, she is one of those characters that does only have good heart, you know?

Matt: But weren't you a little annoyed in Book 5 in that chapter when she says, "He is as good as my son?"

Jamie: That was just yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: I hated that. Seriously, I felt so sorry for Sirius then. I really did. I hated it. Matt, she needed a punch then. Between the eyes. Like the carol singers.

Matt: Yeah. Or at least a slap or something.

Laura: I think she needed...

Jamie: A slap, yeah. A punch is a bit much.

Matt: Just to let her know who's boss, you know?

Jamie: I - yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. Just a small one.

Matt: Just so she could pull her tail between her legs.

Laura: I mean...

Jamie: Exactly. Yeah. Not too mean.

Laura: I understand completely where she's coming from. Like, if I had a kid, I would never want them to go do that. But that one scene where she pulls Harry into a sort of side room, you know, under the pretense of getting him to identify a sock, and then she immediately...

Jamie: Yeah. Yeah.

Laura: ...starts hammering on him, "So why are you dropping out of school?" And it's like, "Ughhh!" Because you just know how much he has to do, and he doesn't need her to be...

Jamie: Yeah. Yeah.

Laura: Guilting him.

Matt: Yeah.

Jamie: Exactly. Yeah. And it's - but - she means well, but her methods are occasionally thrown into question, you know?

Matt: Well, she has to have an extreme emotion of something.

Jamie: Exactly. Yeah.

Matt: I mean every character has to have something. She can't be perfect.

Jamie: No, she can't. She can't.

Relationship Tensions

Laura: All right, well the next thing we see in this chapter (and I think a lot of shippers were really happy about this) was a lot of tension between Harry and Ginny and Ron and Hermione. One of the first things we see in the chapter is when Harry and Ginny are setting the table together. They have a moment of "unspoken understanding" where they both remember times when they were together.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: And it seems weird to me. And I'm like, reading these books, and it seems weird to me that Ron seems to be the only one in their entire family who knows or acknowledges that Harry and Ginny were together. Like - it just - you would think that other characters would mention it, but...

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: ...I feel like we never see that, and I wonder if the family knew.

Matt: Well, I'm pretty positive that Fred and George...

Jamie: Yeah.

Matt: ...may know a little something. And of course we know Hermione knows, but I think - I think Ron is one of those characters who can't really keep his feelings to himself...

Laura: Mhm.

Jamie: Yeah.

Matt: ...very much, especially when it comes to his little sister, because I think he's been the most protective of Ginny.

Laura: Oh, for sure.

Matt: ...then...

Laura: It just seemed weird to me because there's, you know, one point where they're all having dinner together and Harry says that he found himself scrunched beside Ginny, and I'm just thinking of Mrs. Weasley who is constantly the perfectionist when it comes to meal plans or any sort of party situation.

Andrew: Mhm.

Laura: And there Harry and Ginny are, sitting by each other, and you would think she would realize how incredibly awkward that would be.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Laura: So...

Matt: I don't think Mrs. Weasley knew...

Laura: You don't think she knew they were dating?

Matt: No.

Jamie: No, no, I...

Matt: Sometimes I think - sometimes parents are really oblivious to it.

Jamie: Oh...

Laura: Yeah, that's true.

[Everyone laughs]

Matt: Especially with all the things that are going on, I think she's pretty much - if she did have any assumption, I think that's being put on the back burner at this point.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: And also, Fred and George have a great deal of respect for Harry.

Matt: Definitely.

Jamie: I don't think they'd be the kind of people to joke about something as serious as that in front of - you know, because...

Matt: If anything, they'd be pushing for it.

Laura: Mhm.

Jamie: Exactly, yeah.

Laura: Yeah I just didn't know if maybe like, it was possible that Mrs. Weasley was trying to get them back together, or, you know, maybe?

Andrew: I think people knew it was sort of an awkward situation so nobody really wanted to bring it up.

Laura: Mhm.

Andrew: Does that make sense?

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Matt: Well I'm sure Mrs. Weasley knew...

Jamie: Yeah.

Matt: ...that Ginny had a crush - I mean she knew she had a crush on him in the beginning, so...

Andrew: Even when we look back to Chamber of Secrets, even the movie when they were - when they dropped in those little hints, which was nice.

Laura: Yeah.

Matt: Mhm.

Laura: Just like a side note, did you guys, like, when you were reading the beginning of the series, think that Harry and Ginny were going to get together?

Andrew: Beginning of the series?

Laura: Yeah, like in Books 2 and 3...

Jamie: I can't remember them.

Andrew: No.

Laura: I never thought of it at all, to be perfectly honest. Not until really the fifth book did I actually think, "Oh, that could happen." But...

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Matt: Yeah.

Laura: Earlier in the series I was just like - I thought she was just, like, this cute little girl who had a crush on Harry.

Jamie: A friend. Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, I didn't think of it that way at all.

Matt: Mhm, yep. If anything the thought would have been, really, just in and out really quickly whenever they mentioned that Ginny was dating this guy and this other guy.

Jamie: That's disgusting, Matthew!

Matt: What?!

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: In and out very quickly?! Harry's got more game than that!

Matt: I made no assumption...

Andrew: Jamie, you made it disgusting.

Matt: I am not judging. I know!

Jamie: Huh?

Andrew: You made it disgusting.

Jamie: No! Well, maybe, maybe.

Matt: He did catch the only time I didn't have anything behind it. That was like the only time.

[Jamie and Laura laugh]

Jamie: That's funny.

Andrew: That's terrible. I think it also depends on what age you're reading the book at.

Laura: Yeah, that's true.

Andrew: Because, like, at our age...

Jamie: Yeah, definitely.

Andrew: ...I don't think when we were reading Sorcerer's Stone through Goblet of Fire, Goblet of Fire came out in 2000. We were...

Laura: Eleven. [laughs]

Andrew: ...eleven. Yeah, we weren't thinking about relationships. At least I wasn't. Hell, I'm still not thinking about relationships.

[Laura laughs]

Matt: Mhm.

Andrew: I mean, you know, maybe once I hit puberty or something, but...

[Everyone laughs]

Matt: [laughs] When your voice cracks.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Why are we stopping this show? It's so much fun.

Jamie: It is fun!

Andrew: Let's continue. A thousand more shows!

Jamie: We will.

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