Muggle Mail: Rowling's Documentary

Laura: All right, the next one comes from Kim, 19, of Houston, Texas. She says:

"Hey guys! I really enjoyed your discussion of JKR's documentary in Episode 127. Actually, I thought the episode as a whole was brilliant! But, in regard to the documentary, I just wanted to add that I wish they had filmed Jo signing the bust inside the hotel upon finishing Book 7. It would have been interesting to witness or at least hear from Jo herself why she did it. I imagine it was rather spontaneous. Also, I'd like to comment on something y'all mentioned in the Chapter 9 discussion. I think Micah was right in saying Snape got in before Moody set the spell in Grimmauld Place. I'm not sure where I read or heard it, but I'm pretty sure that's how it happened. You might want to check me on that! Thanks for reading, I love the show and I'm looking forward to anything y'all do in the future, HP-related or not! Pickles, Kim."

Eric: Awww, pickles.

Andrew: It would've been nice to see her do this.

Laura: Yeah, I agree.

Matt: Yeah.

Andrew: Maybe there were some concerns with showing vandalism on T.V.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: It raises some ethical concerns. It really truly does.

[Andrew, Laura and Micah laugh]

Eric: I remember the additional shock...

[Matt laughs]

Eric: ...you know, when we all found out that our favorite J.K. - our favorite author, J.K. Rowling, was a vandalist, or a graffiti-er.

Laura: [laughs] I'm sure the hotel does not view it that way.

Eric: Well...

Andrew: No, that's just extra money for them now.

Eric: That's only because of how much more their hotel is worth...

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: ...now that J.K. Rowling signed the bust there.

Laura: Because, you know, if we went there and signed a bust we'd probably...

Eric: I'm pretty sure they'd kick us out.

Andrew: We'd get fined.

[Andrew, Laura and Matt laugh]

Eric: Yeah, with a fine, with a fine, but since J.K. Rowling did it - I mean, it raises some questions, you're right, if this documentary did follow J.K.R. as she was writing the book as it should have, pretty much, included that.

Laura: Maybe she did that by herself. Maybe she wanted her own private thing to do when the cameras weren't rolling, you know?

Andrew: Maybe, yeah. Yeah.

Eric: I think it was because it was illegal, and they couldn't legally tape it.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Eric: You know?

Andrew: It's weird, because when she always wrote that - when she wrote that story about how she finished the book, and then how she wrote in the Balmoral on the bust, I always picture it as being a dark night, and you know, it was...

Matt: Alone?

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: She was alone, and it was dark. It was a small, little room. It was candlelight...

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: But now that we've seen the documentary, it's broad daylight, there's a crow in the air. Jo's listening to - what's the song she's listening to when she finished?

Matt: Something by an artist?

Eric: No, really?

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: I really need to see this documentary.

Laura: I can't remember who it was.

Andrew: Yeah, but I can't remember the song right now, but you know, that's cool that she listened to music afterwards. But, yeah, whatever. I think there were just some concerns. Maybe Jo was doing that when she had some private time.

Eric: Oh! Can I read the next mail, can I read the next mail?

Andrew: Yeah.

Muggle Mail: Voldemort Name Taboo

Eric: This one's from Ruth H., age 27, of Rapid City, South Dakota. She says:

"Dear MuggleCasters, love the show. I'm a stay at home mom to a one year old and every time I put on MuggleCast as an alternative to Dora, or The Wiggles, my daughter dances to your opening music."

Laura: Awww.

Eric: [laughs] Anyway.

Andrew: That's so cute. Get a video.

Eric: It is cute.

Andrew: Take a video and put it on YouTube.

Eric: Take a video. Yes, please, and MuggleCast is a good alternative to Dora, or the Wiggles.

"Anyway my comment is regarding your discussion last week of the Voldemort name taboo, and maybe this should wait till your Chapter-by-Chapter for 20, but whatever."

Oh, maybe it should.

"The trio does say the V word pretty quickly upon arriving at Grimmauld Place (Pg. 173) but nothing seems to happen and Ron does tell Harry later that the name 'breaks protective enchantments, causes some kind of magical disturbance.'(Pg. 389) Doesn't it seem like even if the Death Eaters in the square couldn't see Number 12, they would still sense the magical disturbance. Do you think this is just a Jo boo-boo? Thanks a lot, keep up the good work, and Laura, you keep those boys in line!"

Laura: I'll do that. For sure.

Andrew: Oooh.

Micah: [laughs] It seems like a lot of boo-boos are surfacing.

Laura: Yeah, I know. The only thing I can think of, and, I mean, we obviously all just read this chapter, so it's all pretty fresh in our minds, but Remus says that the Death Eaters are all stationed outside of anywhere associated with Harry.

Matt: Yeah.

Laura: But I was also thinking, maybe that has something to do with it. Maybe there's some reason they can't get in, but they can still sense it, so that's why they're there.

Eric: Yeah, because they're confused. They're like, well...

Matt: I still think - I still recall that there was a scene where, didn't, like, either Harry or Ron went outside to get the paper, or something and they saw that there were Death Eaters outside the place, but they couldn't see them?

Laura: I don't remember. I don't think it was in this chapter.

Eric: It's definitely to come, though. It's definitely to come when they see somebody in the square.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Mhm.

Laura: And then Remus even said that he has to Apparate to the very first step so they couldn't see him.

Eric: Which is what they tried to do, unsuccessfully, when they're escaping the Ministry, yeah. Which is cool, kind of.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: It would be really interesting to ask, you know, some more specific questions about how these couple of subjects we're kind of confused about work.

Eric: Yeah. J.K.R....

Laura: And they all center on Grimauld Place.

Eric: J.K.R. we're not done with you, Jo. We're not done. We have questions. We need answers. We're Harry Potter fans. Come on. Yeah.

Andrew: Okay!

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Chapter-by-Chapter: Kreacher's Tale

Andrew: So, let's jump right into Chapter-by-Chapter. This week we're just going to cover Chapter 10 - doing this one a week thing, the show is slowly living longer and longer. [laughs]

Eric: Hooray!

Andrew: Chapter 10, Kreacher's Tale. So, short summary: In this chapter, Kreacher tells a tale.

Laura: [laughs] That was very enlightening!

Andrew: So...

Eric: That was a very brief summary.

Andrew: Well, it's very emotional...

Laura: I can totally tell you read it.

Andrew: It's a very emotional chapter, especially towards the end, focusing around House-Elves. I mean, you really - you really see the other side of House-Elves, the side that you just actually feel kind of bad for. So the first point that we wanted to bring up - and somebody put this in here, but I actually had it as my favorite quote, but I guess if it's a discussion point, we could just talk about it first. Right there on the first page.

Harry Feels Lonely

Eric: Harry wakes up.

Andrew: It says, "Harry wondered if they had fallen asleep holding hands," speaking about Ron and Hermione, "The idea made him feel strangely lonely."

Eric: Yes.

Andrew: Now, this was nice because, sort of, you know, Harry feels a bit alone if Ron and Hermione are together. You sort of - he's sort of the odd ball out in terms of relationships, love life in this situation. Obviously, he's...

Matt: He does feel like the third wheel.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, he's the go-to-guy, but on the other hand, he doesn't have his life partner with him.

Matt: No.

Eric: He...

Andrew: So, I thought that was kind of sweet.

Eric: Had to leave her behind.

Laura: Yeah, I think it kind of highlights that separation, too. You know how Dumbledore told him...

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: He could really only trust Ron and Hermione with this and so it's like he leaves behind Ginny, who he loves so much, you know, but he can't tell her anything.

Eric: Yeah, it's kind of interesting that for there to be a trio, Harry has - Ron and Hermione are both his friends, but yet they're also sort of becoming boyfriend and girlfriend right in front of him. And the fact...

Andrew: Right.

Eric: That he wakes up, looks over, and sees that they could've been holding hands is a - is a really good, sort of, portrait of Harry and his feeling.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: This opens up, gives you some really good insight on to sort of how Harry views everything and same with later on. This whole chapter, I think, is very keen on Harry and describing sort of how he feels about things.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: Well, I have a question for Laura regarding this. Do you think that the holding hands was a result of Ron's book or do you think it was a genuine holding hands thing?

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: [sighs] Okay, thank you for bringing this up, Matt. Because I've actually gotten a lot of emails from people who are, like, "You don't know what you're talking about. At least he's trying..." And, you know, I'm not refuting that point. Yes, I acknowledge that he was trying. But I also...

Micah: Well, first of all, he's a fictional character so people should calm down just a little bit and back off Laura.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: Thank you! Thank you for that. And also, yeah, he was trying, but as a girl who has - hmmmm, what's the best way to put this?

Eric: Just think about how you would say this before.

Laura: As a girl who has known men like this and you're just, like, "Don't - don't do that." Because you look at it and it gets very frustrating because you realize that they don't completely get it even though they're trying to, you know? And it's kind of frustrating as a reader. It's not like I'm saying that Jo shouldn't have written it that way or that I didn't enjoy it. I quite did. And frankly, there was really nothing to say that they had fallen asleep holding hands. Harry just thought it looked like they might have. And I think that's what was really interesting about the quote because that type - romance seems to be really high on his mind at that moment because that's the first thing he thinks when he looks over. He doesn't think about anything else about the journeys they have ahead, even the fact that they could all die. He looks over and thinks, "Oh, I wonder if they could have fallen asleep holding hands." And I think it shows that he's kind of – I mean, it shows that loneliness and it shows that he's kind of depressed about leaving Ginny behind. So...

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Eric: Well, it said earlier Ron had a fit of gallantry and insisted that Hermione get the cushions or whatever.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: What was that about? Did it say that Ron was just asserting that Hermione be the most comfortable or?

Laura: Well, yeah! It's kind of like the whole – it's kind of like a lot of the old fashioned beliefs like guys are supposed to hold open doors for girls – just, you know, those kind of things.

Eric: Are they? I mean, am I a loser for not doing that?

Laura: No, no, no, no.

Micah: Have you ever commuted in New York City?

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: No, I'm just saying, like, it tends to be that when a guy is trying to impress a girl, he likes her to be the most comfortable, he doesn't like her to have to do things for herself.

Eric: But after a year or two of marriage or a few months of dating, whatever the case is...

Laura: Yeah. It's like, "You can sleep on the floor!"

[Eric laughs]

Laura: "You cow!"

Eric: Yeah, anyway. So, sorry to hear about your relationships, Laura. [laughs]

Laura: [laughs] Yeah. Me too.

[Everyone laughs]

Snape Parallels

Andrew: Who put the next point in there?

Laura: Oh, I did. I was kind of bringing that up because I thought it was an interesting parallel and you guys have heard me harp on and on about parallels...

Eric: I'm tired of it. I'm sick of it, actually. You discuss parallel once more...

Laura: Shut up, Eric.

Eric: I'm going to hit you.

Laura: I don't care.

Eric: I'm gonna mail a thing that hits you to the P.O. Box.

Andrew: I like parallels. I think they're good.

Laura: Yeah, I think parallels are awesome.

Eric: I know, I know. They're cool. I agree.

Laura: See, you fail, Eric.

Matt: They never meet.

Laura: [laughs] Thank you, Matt.

Micah: Ohhh. So funny.

Laura: Yeah. So, what I thought was really interesting about Harry wondering, you know, if Snape has searched the house, and he thinks about him with scorn. You know, anytime Snape is mentioned throughout this book, no one likes him. They all think he's bad. And I just thought it was a really interesting parallel to the first book where throughout the whole thing we think he's this bad guy and then in the end we find out he's good.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: So that's all I really had to say about that.

Eric: Well, it's a valid point too. It's interesting that you say Harry wonders correctly if Snape has searched the house. It's interesting that Snape has been there and Harry can kinda detect that. I think that's pretty cool. But clearly, clearly, you know, with books being overturned and shelves and everything being searched through, you know, someone has been there in the house.

Laura: Right.

Sirius' Bedroom

Eric: So, what, Harry wakes up and he goes up a few steps and finds himself inside Sirius's bedroom? Or what was formerly Sirius's bedroom?

Laura: Yeah.

Matt: Mhm.

Andrew: Yes.

Eric: And inside Sirius's bedroom – there's a contrast in this chapter that exists between Sirius's bedroom and Regulus's bedroom. And, as J.K. Rowling says, they couldn't sort have been further apart. They're quit the opposite of each other as far as – Sirius has all these Gryffindor banners, there are pictures of Muggle motorcycles, and even bikini-clad Muggle girls. [chuckles] Which I thought was funny.

The Letter

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: In Sirius's room, so he wanted to emphasize his difference from his parents, etc. etc. and when they go into Regulus's room, there's all sorts of Slytherin pride, and obviously a bunch of old newspaper clippings about the Dark Lord. So, I thought that was cool, and I wanted to bring that up. But, what do you think about the letter that Harry reads?

Micah: It's depressing, I think.

Laura: It was.

Andrew: The letter was sweet, it was a little...

Micah: Not the letter itself, just the scene, I think, it was pretty depressing when you have him just sitting there reading it and it seems like, you know, you kind of get a feeling of everything that he's gone through over the past sixteen or seventeen years of his life and how lonely its really been. It goes back to what Laura was saying, you know, at the beginning of the chapter, you know, with Harry looking over at Ron and Hermione. It's just reemphasizing how lonely he has been, not just in recent years, but pretty much his whole life.

Matt: Well, this is the first time really Harry notices that his mother really lived.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: She really wrote – that her hand really wrote these words.

Matt: Yeah. This is the first time Harry actually touches something that his mother touched or created or something besides himself.

Micah: Right.

Andrew: Yeah, and also... Go ahead.

Laura: Sorry, I was going to say, and also, that was a first for readers too. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but when I was first reading this book and we had the letter from Lily, I was like, "Whoa, it's really weird to see something from her perspective."

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: Because this whole time we've just known her as someone's who's just dead. And then suddenly we have this letter from her. Whicah was weird.

Eric: She's his mum.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: You know. She died saving Harry etc, etc. We've heard all this stuff about her, but actually hear – reading her writing, it's actually quite cool. And I mean, couldn't you guys just see the baby Harry on the broom? On the toy broom? [laughs]

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Speeding around on everything, that was so cool.

Andrew: I really hope that that's one of the things that makes the movie.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I would love to see that picture and I think Dan Radcliffe could pull that off really well, making the realization that...

Matt: What, being a one-year-old baby?

Andrew: Huh?

[Micah laughs]

Eric: Yeah! They'd cast Dan Radcliffe as his toddler self.

Andrew: Being a one-year old... No, no, no. Just looking at the picture, looking at the letter.

Micah: Talk about pre-production.

Eric: Yeah. No, I agree.

Andrew: I agree. That was a very special momemnt.

Eric: Dan Radcliffe is really striking me as a really good actor. I've just liked him recently. I've just really noticed how intense he can be. It's really cool.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: That's all he can be.

Micah: Talking about the letter, I think probably my best quote for this chapter is when they were talking about the G's that she made.

Laura: Awww, yeah.

Micah: It said, "Each felt like a friendly little wave glimpsed from behind a veil." I thought that was Jo just at her best, referencing the veil.

Andrew: I love when Jo writes...

Eric: Mym mom wrote here G's...

Andrew: I love when Jo describes that kind of thing and makes things really – personify things, like even the letter "G." [laughs]

Laura: Well, and also the reference to the veil too. I thought that was really great.

Micah: Right.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: And she used the veil several times throughout the book. I remember reading and she would describe something as it was beyond some kind of veil, or something along those lines.

Eric: And yet we didn't hear from Sirius in this book.

Laura: It's because he's dead!

Eric: I know, I know, I know. I accept that. I do.

Matt: He's DEAD!

Eric: But yeah, you're right, there was a lot of veil references, and I was like, "We're totally going to see that room again aren't we?" And then we didn't. But that's okay.

Laura: I know! And I really wanted to, and I was so upset. But anyway...

Eric: Next time, next time. In Book 8. Book 8, Laura.

Laura: Yeah, sure. [laughs]

Micah: And what about Dumbledore in this letter? I mean, it just kind of reinforces Harry's...

Eric: See, this is one of those...

Micah: ...mistrust in him.

Eric: This is one of those letters that really make the plot, you know? It's these letters Harry happens to find in this book - not any previous book - but this book. And it's so important and amazing and lovely. Just one of those things that spurs the plot into action. And you're right, it totally reaffirms that there are some questionable things about Dumbledore.

Matt: Yeah. But she said it lightly like it's not something very, I wouldn't say, negative.

Laura: No.

Matt: It's probably one of those secrets.

Eric: Just questionable, like, "Huh. What's Dumbledore up to?"

Matt: Just like, "Dumbledore did this?!?"

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Yeah, but Harry's reaction was more anger, I think, than we've seen him previously. I think it's slowly building up.

Andrew: I think it's partially because Harry doesn't know what exactly Lily was talking about. "Could you believe Dumbledore donated so much to charity?" We don't know what it actually was.

Eric: Yeah, the second page is missing.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Harry finds it later after the fact, doesn't he?

Andrew: Yeah, we don't know what it actually is about, which is a shame.

Eric: Yeah. So Harry is determined now to find Bathilda Bagshot.

Andrew: Wait, hold up real quick. Do you think Snape took it?

Laura: He did.

Eric: He did.

Micah: He did.

Andrew: I was being sarcastic.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: He took - oh, okay.

Andrew: Come on you guys!

Laura: I thought – well, you didn't sound very sarcastic, Andrew.

Andrew: Never mind, never mind, nevermind.

[Eric and Andrew laugh]

Andrew: Never mind.

Bathilda and Horcruxes

Eric: At one point in this chapter, they mention the tedious task of the Horcruxes - the difficult task Dumbledore had laid out for them. I guess it's when Harry has just woken up. I'm thinking in retrospect - was it really terribly difficult to locate the Horcruxes? I think they were very successful in doing so once they did and I thought it was all right, I felt it wasn't that big of a deal, necessarily. Hermione asks him if going to see Bathilda would really help search for the Horcruxes and I think it did.

Micah: I think it's ironic how it almost gets them killed when they go visit with her.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah.

Eric: That part is just weird. That part is just weird. I'm sorry, it's just weird.

Laura: No, that part is awesome and they better do it justice in the movie or I'll be so mad.

Eric: I sure they will. I'm sure they will though.

The Fidelius Charm

Micah: Well who brought up this point about the Secret-Keeper and Fidelius Charm though?

Laura: That was me.

Micah: Okay.

Laura: What kind of throws me off is Lily in her letter talks about how Bathilda Bagshot is dropping by their house every day and I'm thinking they're under the Fidelius charm right now, Peter Pettigrew is their Secret-Keeper, isn't it kind of weird that people can just drop by their house even if it's people they trust? Isn't the whole point that it's only one person that knows where they are?

Eric: Hmmm.

Matt: Hmmm.

Micah: These questions just keep coming up. I don't know...

[Eric laughs]

Micah: It's kind of hard to answer all of them.

Eric: It's draining.

Laura: And then later on she's like, "Oh Sirius, if you could just drop by, I'm sure it would make James so much happier!"

Eric: Yeah, because James is freaking out. Jame is like Sirius in Book 5. He's feeling lonely and secluded.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: He wants to go out.

Micah: Cabin fever.

Andrew: They didn't leave the house, right?

Laura: No.

Eric: Yeah, it's cabin fever. You're right, Micah.

Laura: She even says in the letter that Dumbledore has James's cloak so it's not like he can even sneak out. So you know they're under the charm at that point.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: That's true. And Harry also says - when she mentions Pettigrew being down - Harry says, "Did Pettigrew know that would be the last time he would be seeing them alive?" It's really intense, you know they're under the charm and hiding, why is Bathilda dropping by every second and why couldn't they just torture Bathilda and find out the whereabouts of Jamess and Lily since she had been there?

Matt: Well, maybe...

Andrew: The only thing I could think of is that they could be meeting somewhere in the house that Bathilda could get to. I mean, because realistically, they couldn't possibly - it couldn't just be them three the whole time they're in hiding. Realistically, they would have to be meeting with other people.

Laura: How so?

Andrew: I don't know. To stay sane? I don't know.

Eric: Well, they have a family to raise plenty of people raise families without any friends nearby.

Andrew: I'm trying to think. If there was a logical answer to this, what would it be?

Eric: Well, the question is would Pettigrew have to tell Bathilda where the Potters were for her to go visit them? Or what?

Matt: Well, she's a neighbor so she already knows where they are.

Laura: And what else I don't get - we know they were located in their home and Sirius clearly knew that's where they were so why would it be any less safe to have Sirius not to be their Secret-Keeper if he knew where they were anyway?

Eric: Yeah, yeah, that's awkward because the way this letter is written - you're right, because of the way this letter is written. Anyone who intercepted this letter could figure out where they were. And was the charm destroyed once Pettigrew told Bathilda where they were or what? What happens when somebody - when somebody you confide in - when the Secret-Keeper tells where something is? Does that make it still closed off to the outside world or what? Or does it break the charm?

Matt: Well, it's not a though secret anymore.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: It's no a secret. So does the charm break or what?

Laura: I don't know. There are too many questions.

Matt: Was it already - do you think when Peter Pettigrew told Voldemort do you think Voldemort automatically left as soon as he knew or do you think he waited a few days?

Micah: Oh this is interesting. I'm just kind of reading this on the Harry Potter Lexicon. It says, "Even if one of the Potters had been captured, force fed Veritaserum, or placed under the Imperius Curse, they would not have been able to give away the whereabouts of the other two. The only people who ever knew their precise location were those who Wormtail had told directly but none of them would have been able to pass on the information."

Laura: Huh.

Micah: So, it's possible that Sirius and Bathilda knew where they were but they would never be able to divulge the information if they were captured.

Eric: Interesting.

Laura: That is interesting.

Eric: Though, didn't Jo also change the outcome of how the – on her website there was an old question, one of the original FAQs, regarding the Fidelius Charm and she later, you know, midway into Book 7, said, "Okay, I've changed my mind. This is what's happening."

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: This was from her official site though because the Lexicon has a note as to where the quote came from. So...

Eric: Okay. Because I...

Micah: ...that was from Jo, herself.

Eric: Yeah. Because I think how it happens with everyone – because what happened with Grimmauld Place was, everyone who knew was then, in turn, a Secret-Keeper.

Micah: Right.

Eric: Isn't that what she said? But that seems in contradiction with what she had previously said. So, I think she changed her mind, didn't she? She told everyone about it. I recall that happening. I don't know.

Andrew: Yeah. I don't know.

Matt: Hmmm.

R.A.B. Revealed

Micah: Well, this is a big chapter and kind of how I wanted to start talking about this is – I mentioned this to Andrew, I think – is how predictable was this? When you guys were reading this, and I know...

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: ...there's so much theory that was out there about it.

Eric: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah.

Micah: Were you kind of disappointed a little bit that it – and I mean, everything was not as I thought it was as far as how it all played out – but the general things. Who R.A.B. was, who, you know, went with him to cross the lake, you know?

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: Was it all a little bit too, you know, easily figured out?

Eric: Well, see everyone knew because of how, you know, we had harped on it for so long, you know, and when Lexicon came out with their Arcturus, I think it was. Wasn't it Lexicon who spoiled that, basically?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: That Regulus had a... Everybody pretty much knew.

Laura: Even before that, a lot of people thought it was going to be Regulus Black.

Eric: Regulus Black.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: Right.

Andrew: Right. But the thing was, the Lexicon got some sort of confirmation by somebody and then at that point they posted it on their site. They posted the whole name.

Micah: Right.

Andrew: And we even talked about this on the podcast and then it was knocked down and apparently Bloomsbury or whoever said, "Okay, take it off."

Eric: But Micah's right. There were – and it struck me as well, reading this, that there were actually two moments in this chapter that we already pretty much could have predicted long before Book 7. And so, are you asking basically what do we think about how Jo handled the fact that we all knew? So kind of, coming out to telling us wasn't really that revolutionary, but yet she still kind of had to right it through so that it made sense?

Micah: Well, I think that there's a couple of things here. The first being that with this story coming to an end, there had to be certain things that people could guess and guess right.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: I mean, you know. Jo is very good at what she does in terms of hiding little clues along the way. But I think that there are certain things that, you know, you just get to that point and what you guess is going to be right. And this just happened to be one of those things. I know - I'm not saying that I was disappointed in the chapter, but I just thought maybe it was a little bit too predictable.

Eric: Well, I kind of like how she gives Regulus quite a bit of humanity. He is not the coward that Sirius kind of portrayed him to be. You know, Sirius didn't like his brother. But you see that human flaw in Sirius then of disliking pretty much anything that has to do with his family. Because that's the sort of character Sirius was. For him to underestimate that his brother actually penetrated Voldemort's defenses so much so and the reasoning why - I mean, I don't think it discredits anything because when Kreacher tells the story of what exactly happened, I was so enthralled by it that I – to be honest, I thought it was really cool. And I thought it was fine that Sirius had already made a point to tell Harry that his brother was crap or a coward.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah. I mean, I don't really - I know that a lot of people - I think this was before, when the whole thing with the Lexicon came out. But at one point, Jo said on her website, "I'm sure that a few of you will figure out what one of them is if you've read closely enough." Then everybody, of course, gravitated to that locket which was a lot like the locket in Half-blood Prince.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Oh, right!

Laura: And of course the initials are "R" and "B." So everyone thinks Regulus Black, regardless of the middle initial.

Eric: Of course, because people had already caught that little mid-sentence reference to a locket because she does mention a locket in book five. Then Harry, Ron, and Hermione in this book, in this chapter, say, "Wait, there was a locket!" "What?" "Remember, we saw a locket!" And everybody is like, "Oh my god, yeah!" And J.K. Rowling had referenced that like, in the middle of a sentence once before. So, I thought that...

Laura: Well, and also, everybody pretty much predicted that Mundungus took it and he ended up being the one who took it, which I just find funny. Just bringing up Micah saying that a lot of this was somewhat predictable.

Eric: Yeah, you're right. Mundungus having it.

Matt: Yeah.

Micah: But it's almost predictable in a sense that you're just waiting for them to find out, to put the pieces together.

Laura: It was more like vindication, you know, for us. We were like, "Yes! We knew it all along!"

[Eric sings]

Micah: But I will give Jo the credit for completely taking it in different direction at the end of the chapter because I did not see that coming at all. And I guess we'll talk about it in a little bit.

Eric: Didn't see come what come along?

Micah: Where the locket went.

Eric: Well, we don't know that yet at the end of the chapter.

Laura: Oh!

Eric: We don't who it went to.

Micah: Oh, that's the end of next chapter. Forget it.

Laura: Yeah. That's the end of next chapter. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, we don't know who it went to yet.

Micah: See, this is what happens when you prepare with two chapters and you only go over one.

Eric: Oh, see, I didn't know you did that, man. Sorry about that.

Laura: Yeah, yeah.

Eric: I'm sorry.

Andrew: I started reading the next one but then I was like, "Better not, I'm just going to get confused with everything."

Micah: All right, my fault. Anyway.

Eric: But you're right, you're right, Micah. When we find out who actually has it, that's - that's messed up. That's really messed up.

Matt: Mhm.

Eric: There's an interesting point here I wanted to bring up where it says even though Regulus changed his mind about Voldemort, he didn't satisfactorily attempt to explain that to Kreacher or his family before he died. Because it says they were safer sticking to the pure-blood line anyway, because there was a prejudice and discrimination against pure-bloods - or non-pure-bloods. So basically J.K. Rowling's created this situation where Regulus Black disenchanted from Voldemort, didn't really tell anybody, except set out to destroy it and ends up sacrificing himself so that he could destroy the locket. And he didn't tell his family that Voldemort didn't have the right idea because presumably - I mean, that's what Hermione suggests - that it was just safer to be a pure-blood, and not sort of change your ideas if you were a Muggle-hater at that time. Because, for the reasons that we see later on in Book 7, which is all the - even the Ministry officials who are getting taken to court and put on trial for having Muggle husbands or wives or whatever.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: So, I thought that was a really interesting sort of no-win situation of war and hard times.

Laura: Yeah. I wonder what it was that made Regulus change his mind.

Eric: Well, wasn't it when he suggested about the elf? Wasn't it when he said, "I need an elf," and he was horrified after Kreacher told him what he made Kreacher do.

Laura: Yeah, I mean I thought that was kind of - well, yeah.

Eric: Oh you're right though.

Laura: I guess that's right.

Eric: Because it said - because Kreacher says Regulus came to him a few months later then, after he had...

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: And I guess that's sort of after he had figured a little bit more out about what the cave was all about to begin with.

Micah: Right. Maybe he just got a better understanding of what was going on and realized, you know what...

Matt: Yeah.

Micah: ...maybe this isn't the right...

Eric: Thing.

Micah: ...thing for me to be doing, and maybe...

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: ...in the end, it's not the best thing for the wizarding community as a whole. But I wanted to talk...

Matt: I mean he obviously shows compassion.

Eric: He does.

Micah: Yeah.

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