Main Topic - Sirius Black

Andrew: Now, let's get on to the main topic of the week. Continuing our regular series on a specific Harry Potter character, because you know what, guys? There are so many characters that if we just do one for every show, we'll be good for about three years. So, this is a safe topic.

[Laura laughs]

Kevin: It is.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: And, of course we will be switching it up.

Eric: And immediately after that, we will be so screwed.

Andrew: Yeah. So, we will be doing this, we will be doing quite a few of these and I think these are turning out really well because it gives everyone a great look at one specific character, and we can just focus on one steady topic. So, this week's character is Sirius Black.

Kevin: Are you serious?

Andrew: That is right. Ah ha ha!

Laura: [Laughs] You know what, Kevin? That was worse than my Avada Kedavra joke.

Kevin: Hey! I try.

[Laura and Cristin laugh]

Andrew: No, Laura. Your Avada Kedavra joke is taking the world by storm. Mark my words!

Kevin: Oh, okay.

Laura: I saw that. I saw that. People in the comments were quite amused by that.

Kevin: Yeah. So, let's get on to the main topic. Do you think that Sirius is dead?

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, I really do.

Kevin: I do, too.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: I think he's a goner.

Cristin: I held out hope, but then after this last book, I have kind of let that fall by the wayside.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: Well, I mean it's, they had that interview with JK Rowling saying that she was crying.

Eric: Right.

Kevin: Over the death.

Eric: Yeah. In the kitchen to Neil.

Kevin: I don't think that she would be crying if he was still alive. You know? She doesn't seem like the author to kill someone off and not mean it.

Laura: Yeah.

Cristin: Yeah. And, didn't she say...

Eric: Yeah, and like misleading the fans.

Cristin: Yeah, I know.

Kevin: Exactly. Same thing goes for Dumbledore. I don't think Sirius or Dumbledore are still alive.

Laura: Yeah. Same.

Eric: But, once again, I can't really emphasize it enough. Does that mean they're gone even though they're dead? They don't have to be gone. We might see them again, but as I think as far as...

Laura: Well, no, it's a constant.

Kevin: I think the most we'll see is a tidbit left behind by them, but not anything larger than that.

Eric: Yeah. I have to...

Kevin: Although I do feel like there is going to be something very personal for Harry to discover that Sirius or Dumbledore left behind.

Eric: Yeah, I have to agree with you on that.

Laura: I also think it is more of a symbolic thing, like what Dumbledore was saying, "that he would never truly be gone as long as those at Hogwarts were still faithful to him." So, I think that is how characters like Sirius and Dumbledore do live on in a way, in the series. It's because people they left behind still love about them and care about them.

Eric: Well, those we love never truly leave us.

Laura: Exactly.

Cristin: And, it affects the way they behave too because with Harry, thinking back about what's happened to Sirius and what's happened to Dumbledore, it is just going to give him more fire to go on.

Laura: Exactly.

Kevin: Yeah. I was just going to say that. She always mentions Sirius throughout the books even though he's gone.

Eric: Yeah, he was, Sirius was mentioned in the beginning of the first book. He was there. Hagrid said that he borrowed his bike from him. He told McGonagall and Dumbledore.

Kevin: Yep.

Eric: So, he's been there. I mean I thought that was particularly cool. He's always in the background or he existed there. He was one of the first few characters she introduced. And, next to Dumbledore, Dumbledore was the first character, I guess, next to McGonagall.

Kevin: Yep.

Laura: Right.

Eric: So, that's all I think he could have possibly hoped for.

Kevin: Now, what do you guys think about Sirius' purpose in the books? Do you think he had a purpose, and if so, what was it? And, did he fulfill it, like as a character I mean?

Eric: Hmmm.

Kevin: In the sense of a character, I mean.

Laura: I think he... Go ahead. Sorry.

Eric: Oh, no. Oh, okay. I think he existed because if you look in the third Book, it was mainly devoted to the love of Harry for his family, and for his past, and for his father and for his father's friends. I think that is a tremendous part of the third book, obviously not the movie, but the third book had a lot, with the Marauders and everything. The whole book is really about Harry's friends, Harry's parents' friends and what they did at Hogwarts. Sirius really existed, especially at the end to kind of give Harry a sense of family and closure. You know? The whole going to live with Sirius thing. It's really a shame that it all goes to hell because you really get this tremendous sense of what a great guy and what a great father Sirius could be, and the love that he had for James Potter, and the one that is passed on now to Harry.

Kevin: Now, do you think he would have been a good father? Because that I have a seen quite a bit of debate about because of his tendency of being reckless.

Cristin: His immaturity?

Eric: Well, you're right. That's... That's, I think you're...

Kevin: He was, he seemed like a good friend.

Eric: Right. Exactly.

Kevin: But, as a father figure, I don't think he was the best.

Eric: I know, Kevin. And that's exactly what she then later developed in Book 5.

Kevin: Yep.

Eric: With him treating Harry like James and that he's not James. You know, all that stuff with Molly and things. So, I think, my favorite thing about Sirius, I would have to say, is that he is flawed, and that he's...

Cristin: Human.

Eric: He's human, he's flawed, and he's tragically misunderstood. Throughout the whole third book, we're going through and thinking that he's this demented murderer, when in fact it is completely the opposite.

Laura: Right.

Eric: Well, he still is demented.

[All laugh]

Cristin: I love his loyalty.

Kevin: That's true. Yeah.

Cristin: Because I started going through the books and looking at things. If you look at his actions, if you don't understand the underlying meaning behind the actions, the reasons he was doing those things, you could see him as a horrible person.

Eric: You can.

Cristin: But, when you start looking into it, you can interpret almost every thing that he did as loyalty.

Eric: And love.

Cristin: You know? Even... Yeah, and love.

Eric: Yeah, Cristin, even when he admitted, remember when he admitted to Harry that "I as good as killed them."

Cristin: Yeah.

Eric: He told Harry, but before he clarified himself it was like "Yes, I killed them, Harry." And, Harry was able to beat him up or whatever. But, he was so truthful and he felt so guilty over what had happened that he just...

Kevin: And, I think that, that is one of the flaws in his personality that made him so reckless. He tended to blame himself for things.

Cristin: Right.

Eric: Yeah.

Kevin: And felt responsible to address them and to fix them.

Eric: But, that's the thing. That's where I saw a parallel between myself or possibly people in general, Sirius because I think a lot of people do dabble in measures they shouldn't and have good intentions going in.

Cristin: Well, you can look back to when he went after Wormtail. I kind of looked at that and went "Hmmm. Is that just revenge or what's going on here?" With someone who is as loyal as Sirius, he could have even seen it as something he had to do for James and Lily, not just for him.

Kevin: Yeah, that's true. Definitely.

Laura: I...

Eric: Well, I have a question.

Kevin: Sure.

Eric: Laura, sorry, you can talk. I just have one quick question.

[All laugh]

Laura: It's totally cool.

Eric: Do you guys think that the wizarding community had a double jeopardy law?

[All laugh]

Eric: Could he kill Pettigrew again and get away with it?

Kevin: I highly doubt it.

Eric: That's kind of stupid.

Kevin: I find it highly doubtful. Yeah.

Eric: It's probably stupid anyway because he needed Pettigrew alive to prove his innocence, but okay. Laura, what were you going to say?

Laura: All right. I like what you guys had to say about him. I think you guys raised several good points. First, on to Sirius' purpose in the series, I think he really did fulfill his purpose, which I think was to serve as a driving force for Harry, to motivate him to defeat Voldemort. Because as you can see in the series, up until the point until Sirius dies, his focus is Voldemort, strictly Voldemort. After Sirius' death, as it wasn't Voldemort that killed Sirius, it was Bellatrix, you see more of a broadened view. Voldemort is not the only evil person here. There are people willing, waiting to step up and take his place. People who would love to stand in his shoes if he would go away. So, I think Harry sees it as more of a general goal now that he needs to get rid of Voldemort and that he needs to get rid of these followers because they are just as dangerous.

Kevin: See, I think that that is exactly what his purpose was: bringing the battle to Harry on a personal level.

Laura: Right.

Kevin: When Harry's parents died, he didn't know his parents, he just knew that his parents died. And although that might seem like a personal thing to someone, if you're an infant, and your parents die, and you grow up, you really never knew your parents.

Cristin: You don't know what you're missing.

Kevin: If you know who killed them, you'd be mad at them, but you never truly knew them as people. And the difference was with Sirius was that he got to know this man and the man was taken from him.

Laura: Really...

Kevin: And it made that battle with Voldemort that much more personal.

Laura: Exactly.

Kevin: It made it so that it came into focus for him and he had to say to himself, "Wow! This is really what my life is." You know?

Laura: Exactly. It made him more focused, I think.

Eric: Yeah.

Kevin: Most definitely.

Eric: I agree with you. That's definitely...

Kevin: Not only against Voldemort as you said, but the Death Eaters as well.

Eric: Yeah. I think Bellatrix is probably going to be Neville's to take care of, which is cool. I want him to finish her off.

Laura: Oh, I'd love that.

Cristin: Yeah.

Eric: Or do something with.

Laura: I'd love to watch him finish her off.

Eric: I want him to confront her.

Laura: Oh, I hate her.

Eric: Yeah, I want him to confront her, but...

Kevin: I also, I don't think he's going to confront her. I think he's going to kill her. [Laughs] To be honest.

Eric: I don't know. Neville...

Laura: I'll be rejoicing when that happens.

Eric: We'd like to see Neville take her down, because she's clearly, clearly an evil person, but this isn't the Bellatrix cast. So, back to Sirius.

[All laugh]

Kevin: Yeah. That's true.

Eric: I agree with her purpose.

Cristin: Do you guys have a problem with the way Sirius died? It was just so harsh to me, him falling through the veil, no closure at all.

Kevin: See, yeah, but I think that is why she did it. Because it wasn't only no closure for us, it was no closure for Harry.

Eric: Yeah. Uh huh.

Kevin: Because in an instant, he was gone.

Cristin: Yep.

Eric: Exactly.

Kevin: He had no time for Sirius to be wounded and dying or Sirius to have last words. He just died. And I think she did that for a purpose to make it so that he was torn from Harry and made Harry realize what was going on.

Laura: Something that JKR has always, has always stressed is that she thinks that children are greatly underestimated, and a lot of the time when you see death in something that is considered a children's book, you see people trying to create closure so that they don't disturb children. But, I really think that she is trying to put across the fact that life is short, life can be taken away very easily in the space of a second, and she's trying to put across that kids can take this, kids and adults alike. I think that was a big part of it.

Eric: Yeah, definitely.

Cristin: And kids don't get closure. They don't always get to say goodbye.

Kevin: Exactly.

Laura: Just like adults.

Kevin: Most times they don't.

Eric: Yeah, which is...

Kevin: And I think that she was trying to tune the audience into the harsh sense of reality.

Laura: Well, it's not all a fantasy world. It's not all spells and magic.

Cristin: Magic.

Laura: Exactly.

Eric: No, I don't like it. I don't like it when people say, when people treat Harry as some silly fantasy novel because it's not. Its allegories and its parallels are tremendous. You know? Corruption in government. And what you were talking about the whole death and having no time, that is a complete moment of dramatic irony when there is no time for Harry to say goodbye to Sirius. When right next door is the Time Room with all the Time Turners.

Laura: Exactly!

Eric: You know? I mean, how, that's a slap in the face.

Laura: Definitely. Definitely.

Kevin: Yeah. Not to mention that he didn't even know what the veil was.

Eric: Yeah.

Kevin: It is sort of like exactly what goes on when a family loses someone close and they have to explain it to the child.

Eric: Yeah. It's a child.

Kevin: Because a child doesn't understand.

Cristin: Right. Harry wanted him to come back.

Kevin: Harry had no clue about the veil. Exactly. Harry had no idea how the veil worked. All he was told was that he was dead.

Laura: Yeah. And he's not coming back.

Kevin: Even to this day, we still don't know what the veil is and what its purpose is, and I think that is very important in the series because I think we're going to find out what its purpose is.

Laura: Right.

Eric: Yeah. That surprised me in Book 6, that he didn't, that JKR didn't really focus at all on the Ministry of Magic, like actually the place or the Department of Mysteries.

Kevin: I think she did that purposefully, though.

Cristin: Mhm. Yeah.

Eric: I think she did too and I agree with you.

Kevin: Because it makes it so that, there was one thing about that whole scene that was very important and that was the fact that she mentioned that room that Harry could not get into.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: Mhm.

Kevin: And, what happens is if she brought it up in Book 6, we all know that something in the Department of...you know, the Ministry of Magic.

Eric: Mhm.

Kevin: We know that something is going to happen there. Something has to happen there.

Eric: That's true.

Kevin: And, the fact that she didn't bring attention to it this time, shows that she is trying to divert your attention from it so that you don't have any suspicions about it for next book. You know what I mean?

Cristin: I also think, I mean this book is really the reason I stopped wanting Sirius to come back. I mean I still want him to, but I stopped holding out that hope.

Eric: Pretty much. Yeah.

Cristin: Because if he was going to, it would have been mentioned.

Eric: You think he might have... Yeah.

Cristin: Something would have happened with him.

Kevin: Definitely. Although she does continue to bring up his name throughout the book as sort of a...you know, a....

Cristin: Inspiration?

Kevin: Inspiration for Harry. Exactly.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Which was cool. And last week, well, last week I said about the whole Tonks thing how I didn't really get it. Just the fact that she was upset about Sirius really did just bring more, bring Sirius up again.

Cristin: Right.

Eric: That was the purpose. That helped.

Cristin: The question I was left at after Book 5 finished was, "What is going to happen with Sirius with Luna talking about hearing the voices and things like that?" It really was something that gave me something to hold on to, and with it not being addressed in this book...

Laura: I always thought of that as being when you die, you have the choice to come back in ghost form, as Nearly Headless Nick said, or you have the choice to go on. And, I think that was more meant to show that when Harry goes on he's going to be reunited with these people, but not until it is time.

Kevin: Yep. Well, it also showed that because Sirius didn't come back as a ghost, he had nothing to hold him to the Earth. He had no regrets. You know what I mean?

Cristin: Yeah.

Eric: He was... Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, and I could see him potentially staying for Harry, but I think Sirius would look at that and realize that, that is not what Harry would need because when you look at Sirius, you see a lot of erratic behavior, and you see a lot of leaping before he looks. And, it has caused some very serious and damaging effects because as we have seen he shouldn't have gone to the Department of Mysteries.

Eric: Actually, he didn't.

Laura: However, I think that something as serious as Harry having to fight Voldemort on his own, I think Sirius would realize he needed to go on and be with Harry later.

Kevin: I also think that he recognized Harry's maturity.

Laura: Exactly.

Kevin: He knew Harry, I mean Harry acts well above his age because he has been forced to.

Eric: Right.

Kevin: The events in his life have forced him to...

Cristin: Mature quickly.

Kevin: Jump out of that teenage stage very early and into maturity. I mean, look at what he is facing now.

Eric: Oh god! It's crazy!

Kevin: But, at the same time I think that the main purpose of Sirius and even Dumbledore was to make it so that Harry had a drive. Harry has every purpose in the world and every reason in the world to kill Voldemort. Every reason. And, I think it just makes it so that when he gets there, he's going to be faced with a choice. You know what I mean?

Cristin: Yeah.

Kevin: To be honest, I don't see Harry killing Voldemort flat out like in cold blood, even if Voldemort was defenseless. I doubt he would as a person.

Laura: I think it is going to be more personal than that. I really do.

Kevin: Exactly. Yep.

Cristin: Well, with what Luna said, after finally reading this book, what I kind of thought was, she started talking about how she loses things, but they always come back, and I think Sirius really did come back in this book that way. Harry still had him. He hadn't lost him.

Eric: And you know what's cool? Sirius put Harry in his will and gave him Grimmauld Place and Kreacher, which Kreacher to an extent, I guess is arguable, whether or not he helped Harry in Book 6, but I think it is very mature for Sirius to have done that. Because if he prepared a will, he kind of figured that the end might be near for him and when Sirius was sitting, rotting in Grimmauld Place, bitter about everything, bitter about life, bitter about not being able to be with Harry, I think he finally realized that Harry would have to go it alone and that he would have to... Sirius kind of took a responsibility role and thought things ahead and really prepared Harry, he prepared to give Harry, Grimmauld Place and Kreacher and all that stuff. I really think it is a kind of redeeming quality because yes, he does act before he thinks, but this clearly was something he planned ahead and was very good about.

Kevin: Now, were you surprised by the lack of personal letter or something left behind by Sirius to talk to Harry? You know what I mean?

Eric: No. The two-way mirror. That ticked me off. Harry just smashed it, didn't he?

[Laura and Cristin laugh]

Laura: Oh yes!

Kevin: Yeah, but that ticked a lot of people off.

Laura: I was so mad.

Eric: It should have ticked a lot of people off. I mean there's that... That's more irony. The answer was right there and Harry didn't use it and Harry didn't think about it.

Cristin: Imagine how mad...

Laura: I slammed the book shut I was so mad.

[Kevin and Cristin laugh]

Cristin: Imagine how mad Harry had to be. People get angry whenever they don't understand things like death. You know? That's one of the things that people do. They'll get angry at the universe for whatever happened because they don't understand it, and I think that's what Harry was doing.

Kevin: And, it was a way of forcing Harry to see that everything isn't perfect and he doesn't think about everything. You know? He can't always be the person who saves the day.

Eric: Even though he was...

Kevin: There are some times he's forced to accept reality and realize that he can't do everything. You know?

Cristin: Yeah. He can't save everyone.

Kevin: Exactly.

Eric: Even though he was ticked off.

Kevin: And I think that mirror was representing that.

Eric: He was ticked off with the world. I think he was ticked off with the world long before he discovered that death wasn't happy. You know?

[All laugh]

Kevin: That's true.

Eric: But, yeah. So, the purpose of, I mean I like, I agree with you the purpose of Sirius going back to that was to empower Harry. I think that was more the purpose of his death. As I was trying to say earlier, he does also serve as a connection to Harry's past, which did not previously exist, and I mean it is important I think to mention Lupin as well right here because Sirius and Lupin really did bring the perspective thing to Harry. In Book 5, after the Snape-Pensieve scene, he confronts Sirius and Lupin about his father, and they say, "Yes, Harry. He did make mistakes. He was an arrogant person." And so, he's able to converse with them and find out all these things about his past through Sirius and Lupin. And, I think that's important because he's really worried about his father there and I think Lupin being alive for now is going to be, I think is going to help with more stuff about his past in the future.

Kevin: Okay. So, do you think that covers every aspect of Sirius we can think about?

Eric: No. We should talk about more I think.

Cristin: [Laughs] Oh no!

Laura: Actually, I did have a question for you guys.

Eric: Sure.

Laura: We've seen several death clues, especially throughout Book 5, that Sirius was going to die, but I think that there was more to do it then that. I think that JKR was beginning to show us that Sirius was going to die from the end of Book 3. I really think that his erratic behavior, examples being Harry not wanting to tell him that he had been entered into the Triwizard Tournament because he knew that Sirius came back to England over his scar. And, I believe that exact quote was, "He'll come bursting through the doors of the Great Hall if he finds out about this!" Do you think that it has been there, we haven't really seen it, but it's been there that Sirius was going to do something that was going that would end up resulting in his death because he wasn't thinking clearly, or thinking far enough ahead?

Eric: Yes and no. Well, I think yes and no because, because of Dumbledore's death. We've seen that Sirius, yes, his erratic behavior did get him killed arguably, but Dumbledore is the one person who thinks everything out and can get a way out of everything, and even he died.

Laura: Right. Right.

Eric: So, I don't think it's, you know? In a way, yes, Sirius was, again, arguably bound to die because of his erratic behavior and bound to get into trouble, but Dumbledore also died and that is really a shame.

Laura: I know.

Kevin: Yeah.

Cristin: Yeah.

Laura: It's hard not to get upset about that.

Eric: It's like no one is safe. Whether you are organized or unorganized or...

Cristin: Whatever skills you have.

Laura: Right.

Eric: No one is safe. What about the Animagi and the history of that whole thing at Hogwarts? The Marauders as children and Sirius, you know?

Kevin: I was very surprised that Harry didn't investigate that more in Book 6.

Cristin: Yeah.

Kevin: I was very, very surprised. Because I would think that, like, Harry really looked up to Sirius and I think he would learn that skill and how to morph like that just to mirror his mentor. You know? His fallen mentor. And, I was very, very surprised that he didn't. I was sort of disappointed.

Laura: I would at least think that he would want to research it.

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: Maybe not necessarily pursue it, but definitely look into it a little bit. He might.

Eric: Well, one of the things with the deaths in the Harry Potter books, the trend I noticed between Dumbledore's death and Sirius' death was that in Book 5 we really got to know Sirius even more than we had before. We did have him a lot more in Goblet of Fire then he will be in the movie, unfortunately, but they have to make cuts that is understandable, but we found out all about his family and all about the whole Noble Ancient House of Black, the whole family tree, which was important pureblood information for the future. And, we got to spend time with Sirius, we got to understand that he wasn't really happy where he was alive, and we found out all this stuff about him and then he died. She took him away from us. Now, similarly with Dumbledore in Book 6, we had the meetings with Harry and Dumbledore where Dumbledore set Harry up for things he would need to know in the future about purebloods and Voldemort, and then she took him away from us. And, so I think it is an interesting concept, it is an interesting kind of pattern.

Laura: Well, I think...

Eric: At least, did you guys notice that?

Laura: I think again that Dumbledore served his purpose.

Eric: He did.

Laura: And, however sad it is to say it, we don't need him anymore.

Kevin: I still maintain that he is going to be...he must have left at least some clue for Harry to teach himself.

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: The whole thing that is bothering me about the whole Dumbledore situation is that he left Harry without a trace. You know? And I think that there must be something, just like I think in Sirius' case, I think that there is more to the death of the character then just their death. I think that maybe each of them left something behind for Harry.

Cristin: Right.

Kevin: And, I believe that they will serve their purpose in Book 7, in leading Harry on the right track.

Eric: And, I like that. I like it because it also says what I think JKR has tried to say, which is that even in death, people are still useful, and people can still help. Even the memory alone of people can help serve things.

Cristin: Right.

Eric: One other thing if everybody is done, before we move on. Sirius said he grew up practically under the Potters' roof, under James' roof, always hanging out with James and stuff.

Laura: Mhm.

Cristin: Mhm.

Eric: You guys have any thoughts on that? Comments?

Cristin: Kind of like Harry and Ron.

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: Definitely.

Eric: Yeah, it is definitely the idea of if you have an unsuitable family that you can find shelter in someone else's family.

Kevin: Well, I think it was also an attempt by JK Rowling to mirror Harry with Sirius.

Laura: Yeah.

Cristin: Mhm.

Kevin: She was making a connection because Sirius was over the Potters' house, but Harry was over the Weasleys' house.

Cristin: Yeah.

Kevin: It was sort of like a low-level connection to the two characters.

Laura: Yeah. The Potters basically adopted Sirius the same way the Weasleys have adopted Harry.

Kevin: Exactly, because of circumstance.

Cristin: And, not only that, but if you look at Sirius with his background, he would have been welcomed into Slytherin, into those circles. I mean I know not all Slytherins are bad, but the ones that were, he would have been welcomed into that. Just like Harry was welcomed by Draco. And they both made decisions that, that wasn't who they were.

Eric: And, I think that's one of the best things about him. That's why everybody actually ended up believing that he was truly a Voldemort supporter in the end, at least the people who knew that it was Sirius Black, who, well, I guess everybody knew that he attacked Peter Pettigrew, but what I am saying is that is what I think made it easier to believe for some people that he could have been working for Voldemort. Because he was a harsh. He was sporadic. He was...

Cristin: Reckless.

Eric: In Prisoner of Azkaban the movie, he said that once or twice they thought of making the Padfoot transformation permanent. He's a dog. He's a scavenger.

[Cristin laughs]

Eric: He's got that personality for bad stuff. He just chooses not to use it.

Cristin: And, see dogs remind me of loyalty anyway.

Eric: Yeah.

Cristin: You know?

Eric: Man's best friend.

Cristin: I mean isn't that the one quality you really think of when you think of a dog is loyalty?

Kevin: Yep.

Laura: Exactly.

Cristin: I have an interesting parallel and I want to know what y'all think, with Sirius and Snape. Most people who like one don't like the other one that much, which is understandable because they didn't like each other.

Laura: I love both of them.

Eric: Who? Wait, sorry, who?

Cristin: [Laughs] Well, I said most people, not all people.

Eric: Wait, who?

Cristin: Sirius and Snape.

Eric: Oh, I like both. I really do like both. I think it is very important because they are both, I see them similar. And, even though they are enemies I think Snape does care about Harry in a way. As much as he detests him, when they were going at it about Sirius', sorry, I mean Harry's Occlumency lessons and all that stuff, even though they hate each other I think there is completely like a, I don't know. It's like the hate-love thing. They hate each other as much as they depend on each other because Sirius had to depend on Dumbledore and Snape to teach Harry correctly and instruct him out at Hogwarts because Sirius had to stay behind at Grimmauld Place. I mean I think it is one of those situations.

Cristin: Yeah. So, what my thing is, is that everyone thought that Sirius was a spy, just like everyone now thinks that Snape is a spy, and the ones who trusted Sirius, they were the ones that were murdered. And it appeared that Sirius murdered them. Just like with Snape, the one who trusted him, Dumbledore, who convinced everyone else to trust him, was killed, and Snape was the one who did it.

Laura: That is interesting.

Cristin: And then they both seemed to run away and honestly...

Kevin: Yeah, but I still think there is something behind Snape that we haven't seen before.

Laura: Same.

Cristin: Yeah, I can...

Kevin: Or yet.

Cristin: I am not saying that. I mean even this is another clue that Snape doesn't necessarily have to be evil.

Eric: Well...

Cristin: Because like Sirius, everyone thought that he was, but he wasn't.

Eric: I know what you mean. One of the things, I guess since we are talking about Grimmauld Place, I can sneak this in. I know it is not SnapeCast, I apologize, but...

[All laugh]

Eric: ...Book 5 was another book, I said Book 6 was it, but Book 5 also, we don't get a lot of Snape at all. I mean I suppose there was a little bit more in Book 5 because Book 5 is a longer book, but between Book 5 and 6, we don't know it all yet even now in Book 6 or in Book 5 what Snape was doing. And, I think that just draws more suspicion or draws more... It give us less to use as conviction for him being evil.

Cristin: Mhm.

Eric: So...

Cristin: Especially at the end when he was still teaching him not to say spells out loud.

Eric: Exactly.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: And so Sirius...

Cristin: That struck me as really odd. You know? He was...

Eric: And, he really does come across as a Sirius-type character, Snape, I mean, because even though he does detest him he can still teach him and tell him what he needs to do.

Kevin: Yeah, but you sort of have to remember with the lack of Sirius, I think that some of the hatred went away from Snape. If you know what I mean.

Laura: Mhm.

Eric: I know what you mean.

Kevin: Because Sirius died. You know what I mean?

Eric: Yeah.

Kevin: Why continue hating somebody even when they're dead? Because they're dead.

Eric: Exactly.

Laura: Exactly.

Eric: Exactly.

Cristin: Right.

Eric: And, even when he hated...

Cristin: He's not still calling him names.

[All laugh]

Kevin: Exactly.

Eric: He's not calling him Snivelly all the time.

Cristin: Right.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: So, that's a plus. Yeah, James and Sirius, you know, if you realize in Book 3, McGonagall called them the "rag-tag duo." They would give the Weasley twins a run for their money, Sirius and James. And, those two, I guess they were the highest in power. I'm sure Lupin was in there, but I think Snape was probably picked on most by James and secondly Sirius. He's not afraid to call him Snivellus. With James dead, thanks to Snape in a way, and Sirius dead, thanks to Snape's inability to properly teach Harry Occlumency (which is actually Harry's fault), but with the two lead contenders dead, I don't think Snape really has much to go on to hate Harry anymore.

Cristin: Yeah.

Eric: He can't blame him for hanging around with Sirius because Sirius is dead.

Cristin: He has to look at him for himself and not for who his parents were and his godfather.

Laura: Right.

Eric: I'm sorry. Does anybody get the parallel of the Beatles when they think of the Marauders?

[All laugh]

Eric: Maybe it is just me. I'm thinking John and Paul, and then you've got Ringo who is Pettigrew because...

[All laugh]

Kevin: Okay.

Eric: And George Harrison is Lupin. Lupin is George. You ever get that?

[All laugh]

Eric: Anybody ever think that?

Cristin: I can honestly say I've never thought that before.

Laura: Yeah, me neither, but that is interesting.

Cristin: Yeah.

Eric: Just think of it.

Laura: I will never think of the Marauders the same when I listen to "Yellow Submarine" from now on. [Laughs]

Eric: Okay. [Starts singing] Hey, Harry (to the beat of "Hey, Jude").

Kevin: Okay, so...

[All laugh]

Kevin: Well, if we've covered all the topics on Sirius...

Eric: [Still singing] Ava-da Keda-vra (to the beat of "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da").

[All laugh]

Eric: Wait, I got it. Guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, Kevin.

[Still singing]

Ava-da Keda-vra

Kevin: Okay.

Eric: [Still singing]

Life stops here
Woo!
Da, da, da, da
Life stops here

Kevin: Okay. So, on to Voicemails.

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