MuggleCast 130 Transcript (continued)



Chapter-by-Chapter: Chapter 13 - The Muggleborn Registraion Commission


Andrew: Yeah. That's what we talked about. This week we're just going to try one chapter – Chapter 13 – The Muggleborn Registration Commission. We feel like there's a lot to talk about this chapter and the next week following it, so next week might be one chapter, too. I don't know. Heck! We could be going until summer! I hope not, but...

[Andrew, Eric, and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Not weekly, anyway.

Eric: Well, we'll see.

Andrew: All right, well let's just jump right into it. I mean, this is the chapter where Harry, Ron and Hermione infiltrate the Ministry and Harry goes into Umbridge's office and searches for the locket, of course to no avail and they actually do end up getting the locket in one of the coolest scenes so far in this book., and probably one of my favorite scenes in the book as a whole.

Matt: Mhm.

Eric: Totally agree. So they've actually infiltrated the Ministry in the previous chapter but they're just stepping off of the elevator in the beginning of the chapter when Umbridge recognizes Hermione who is Mafalda Hopkirk. So Harry steps off the elevator and Umbridge gets on the elevator and Harry is confronted with Pius – by Pius Thicknesse who is under the Imperius Curse. Do we know who Imperiused Pius? Is that Voldemort, like, directly Imperiused him because this is the Minister of Magic?

Andrew: Presumably it would be Voldemort.

Mikey: No, no, I believe in the beginning it was....

Matt: It was Draco, wasn't it?

Mikey: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah. They stated that someone was supposed to do that at the beginning. I don't remember who.

Mikey: Oh. I thought it was Yaxley because we were introduced to Yaxley in the very beginning of the book and I believe Voldemort talks to Yaxley about what's the progress with the Ministry.

Eric: Oh.

Mikey: Things like – "we have Thickness under our control."

Andrew: Oh, right. Yeah.

Mikey: So I believe it's Yaxley, especially considering, you know, that would be great to build this character up because he's kind of new in the seventh book and he's the one that did this.

Eric: Yeah. Yeah.

Mikey: I don't know. That's just what I remember from reading, guys.

Eric: Yaxley's making a bang. Yaxley's is making a bang. I was just thinking in that scene it would be funny if Harry turned to him and said, you know, "I'm Harry Potter" and just watch him flip out, but...

Mikey: [laughs] No, actually, actually - again, like honestly, I want to see, you know, who's Harry impersonating. Rancor – what's his name?

Matt: Runcorn?

Andrew: Runcorn, yeah.

Mikey: Runcorn? And he's like this high up Death Eater person...

Eric: Yeah.

Mikey: I would love for Harry – when Harry and Ron are in the elevator with Arthur – it'd just be like, "Arthur, it's me, Harry, and this is Ron!" and just be like totally see Arthur Weasley just flip out and be like, "What are you doing here?" It'd be amazing, because like, you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: Harry feels bad the entire time in that entire scene.

Eric: Yeah, I agree. That's what Jo's so good at writing, though, is these scenes, you know? Like you really have to admire Jo for writing this just how she did because it's like you almost want to reach out to the characters you're seeing in peril. You know? Like Arthur Weasley getting intimidated and stuff – it's just - I like how it all plays out.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: No, I agree with you. It's one of these – this book is, like I think I stated a long time ago – this book is one of those things where I was mad at it throughout the entire reading. Because it was like, I wanted them to do something and they weren't doing it, or they weren't – I was like talking to the book and obviously, you know, it's not going to respond because it's a book!

Eric: Did the book talk back?

Mikey: [laughs] I think it might've talked back at one point. It might've been a dream or no sleep or something.



The Pure-blood Pamphlets


Eric: Half asleep while reading it, yeah. That does it sometimes. Yeah, right before Harry goes into Umbridge's office there's that group of wizards and witches that are folding papers – the Ministry pamphlets with a flower strangling another flower on it.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: What'd you guys think of that pure-blood pamphlet maniac crap?

Andrew: I thought – it sort of reminded me of like – sort of a telemarketer's office or something where they're all just grouped together and doing the same thing over and over again.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I don't know if Jo's trying to draw another parallel to something within the government or – yeah, I don't know.

Eric: Just the idea that they were magicking pamphlets together – what would they use to magick pamphlets because pamphlets can be made quite easily by just folding paper. But they were like magically waving their wands and - I know it's a moot point, but...

Andrew: See, I don't see the point in doing that because they have paper folders. I used to use one in the job I used to work at. You put like a stack of papers in and then it like folds it three ways and it comes out like a toaster. You can just stick it in the envelope.

Eric: Oh, that's cool.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Where do you get one of those Andrew?

Mikey: Yeah, but see the problem is...

Andrew: OfficeMax? [hits the "Easy" button] Actually, Staples.

Mikey: I prefer Staples. That's what I was going to say.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: I prefer Staples, my friend.

Eric: Right.

Mikey: But - it's one of those things, though. Even if they do have paper-folders, Andrew, this is a wizarding world. We've seen them turn down jeans and t-shirts as daily wear to wear cloaks. So obviously going to Staples ("That was easy!") and getting a paper folder – they're probably just going to use their wand because it's free.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: So...

Eric: They can't be bothered. They can't be bothered, Andrew. Plus, the Ministry needs to create jobs.

Andrew: Yeah, it's true.

Mikey: Yeah. Economy – good for the economy.

Matt: About the picture with the red rose being strangled by a green weed, being mean and evil-like - do you guys see that as, kind of, propaganda?

Laura: Oh, yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, sort of.

Eric: It's propaganda. Oh, yeah.

Mikey: Yeah.

Eric: I think Umbridge drew it, too.

Laura: It's propaganda though.

Eric: Yeah and Umbridge drew it, too. Umbridge could have been responsible for that drawing, actually. That's what, I think, Jo hinted at. Because she said when Harry took a look at that, he didn't know who drew it, but the scars on the back of his hand tingled again as they had previously.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: I thought it was a good comparison, too, because you know, roses are represented as the most beautiful, most prestigious flowers of the group...

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: And that would represent like, Purebloods. I thought that was nice.

Andrew: Yeah, that's a really good point.

Mikey: Yeah, but I think it's also the fact that seeing a room of them folding it also lies in line with the pamphlet of what the Ministry has done previously about how to protect them and everything like that. I remember it was Half-Blood Prince and Harry was like, "I received a pamphlet form the Ministry," and Dumbledore asks, "What did you think of it?" and he says, "It was pretty useless."

[Eric laughs]

Mikey: That's kind of what I think we're seeing - that these are pretty useless because they're propaganda and we see them as propaganda because that's what the Ministry does because they're kind of useless already.



The Eye of Moody


Andrew: So, the eye...

Eric: The eye! Nailed to the door. Or, you know, attached to the door. Guys, this is – this is sick. This is sick.

Andrew: It's one of those classic Umbridge moments that I really was missing from Order of the Phoenix. Because like I've said so many times before, Order of the Phoenix gave me so much anger because of Umbridge. And that – you see Mad-Eye's eye just framed up there like a trophy prize. It's – I mean, it's being used, but it's still disgusting and wrong.

Matt: Well, it confirms that...

Laura: Yeah.

Matt: It confirms the fact that we know what happened – who got to Mad-Eye's body first, too.

Andrew: That's – oh yeah. Good point.

Mikey: But I think the – what the biggest question that came up to me when I read this was where did Mad-Eye get that magical eye, then? If it's so unique that they're taking it versus just creating their own...

Eric: Or getting their own, yeah.

Mikey: Where did he get this magical eye? Where did it come from?

Andrew: But I think Umbridge wanted it to just – I'm sure she was happy that Mad-Eye died, so – and I mean, they realized there was a use for it.

Matt: I'm sure she was there, too. She probably took it when they were examining his body.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: Yeah. Considering she takes the locket, too.

Matt: Yeah. She's just taking stuff.

Eric: Yeah, she gets out and about a lot. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Umbridge gets around.

Matt: She goes to yard sales and everything.

Andrew:

[laughs] Hey, for all you guys know, she could have gotten that eye at a yard sale. But realistically, yeah, that just confirms that the Ministry got to Mad-Eye's body. How unfortunate!



Umbridge's Ministry Office


Eric: Yeah. So, I don' know. If Harry walks in – when Harry walks in to her office and he sees that her office is pretty much the same as it was when it was at Hogwarts - I can't wait to see that in the movie...

Andrew: That's so funny, yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Because the whole time I was reading that scene, I was like, "Okay, time to bring the plates back out of the prop room."

Eric: [laughs] Yeah.

Andrew: Because that's...

Eric: Time to get another photo shoot of the cats and everything.

Andrew: Right. Well, hopefully – I mean, I'm sure they're happy about that because now they know what to do for her office at the Ministry: same exact thing.

Matt: It's easy, too, because it's almost exactly like it was in the fifth story, so they really don't have to change anything.

Andrew: Right. Exactly.

Eric: It's interesting...

Mikey: Yeah, I actually kind of freaked out re-reading it. Because after I had seen the movie with all those cats now, versus just like – when I was envisioning before when I read the fifth book, now when I read it, I was like, "Oh my gosh, there are all these cats on the walls." And I just started hearing the meows.

Matt: I know. It's so surreal.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Mikey: And it's so creepy! It's like "Meeeeow! Meow!"

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: Scratching. Ahhh, sorry, I'm freaking out!

[Eric makes "meow" noise]

Laura: I still just think of the cat plates they had in the bathrooms of the premiere party.

Andrew: I know.

Laura: And - oh my god.

Andrew: They would meow and stuff. That was really funny.

Eric: I wish I was there.

Matt: Yeah. So do I.

Andrew: Such a nice touch.

Mikey: Yeah, I didn't go so...

Andrew: Not to have some inside talk even more, but another amazing thing about that after party is that they had an indoor area and there were portraits on the walls, but they were like plasma T.V. screens with portrait borders around them.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: And it was moving wizards and stuff – it was so cool.

Laura: Yeah, that whole thing was pretty sweet. I have to say...

Andrew: Yeah, it was. Sucks you guys weren't there! [laughs]

Matt: Well, I'm glad you guys had fun.

Mikey: Yeah, I'm glad you guys had a lot of fun.

Matt: Yeah, jerk.

Andrew: Well, Laura's the one who took a picture with Rupert.

Laura: I did! It's on my Facebook.

Andrew: That was very exciting. I'm glad you did that. 

Eric: So, as if... 

Andrew: I was too afraid to do that. But anyway... 



Search in Office Reveals No Locket


Eric: So as if the shockingness - as if the chapter couldn't get any more shocking, Harry unsuccessfully searches for the locket unsucessfully in her office. And ell, actually guys, do you want to talk about that decoy detonator? Because my favorite line in the chapter comes just as Harry's exiting Umbridge's office. 

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Can we jump to the favorites segment here quickly? 

Andrew: I guess so, yeah.

Mikey: Yeah. 



Eric's Favorite Line and The Rain Cloud


Eric: Well, my favorite line in this chapter - they're discussing the diversion that Harry created with the decoy detonator and they say, "I bet it sneaked up here from Experimental Charms. They're so careless. Remember that poisonous duck?" [laughs].

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: You know, I agree. Because it's one of those things where it also shows how lax and ridiculous the...

Eric: The office life is.

Mikey: ...Ministry has gotten.

Eric: "Remember that poisonous duck that was up here?" "Yeah, those silly Experimental Charms people."

Mikey: Poisonous Duck. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, so the Ministry is sticking Dementors on the Muggle-borns.

Matt: They are?

Andrew: Which was very sad, but at the same time.

Mikey:

Andrew: It was definitely the coolest scene. Should we jump to that now? 

Matt: Yeah.

Mikey: Well actually, there's something I put in there that sort of goes along with what Eric was saying - before we get down to the bottom of the elevator, guys. 

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Okay. 

Mikey: Eric brought up the exploding decoy and we know that's from the twins. Then, Harry and Ron are in the elevator and Arthur Weasley shows up. And Arthur tells Ron, not knowing it's Ron, how to stop to the rain in Yaxley's office. 

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey:  My question is how does Arthur Weasley know exactly the spell? Do you think it's the Order of The Phoenix making rain clouds in the offices? 

Eric: Oh no, no, no...

Matt: I think, if anything, it's Fred and George's stuff. 

Eric: No, he said he knew that spell because it worked for the other guy that had rain in his office. 

Mikey: Yeah, but that just seems way too convenient - that seems way too convenient that he happens to know it off the top of his head. I think there is something along there, where they're tossing rain cloud frisbees or something and making rain clouds in all the offices of the Death Eaters. 

Matt: It's very Fred and George-ish though. 

Laura: Yeah. 

Mikey: Yeah, that's what - I agree. 

Matt: Like what they did in Movie 5 with the swamp in the Great Hall, or wherever it was. 

Eric: That's true... 

Mikey: Swamp in the hallway.

Eric: Just because how close they're watching Arthur Weasley, it just seems unlikely he'd be involved in it, but it is very pranksterish. 

Matt: I don't think he is involved. I think it's... 

Mikey: Yeah. I guess I can see it not being Arthur but I think Arthur knows exactly who's doing it and what's going on. I can really see it being a Fred and George thing where they snuck in and go, "Dad, just let these go," and him doing it nonchalantly and they just go to where they need to go. Because that's just amazing - come on, a rain cloud!  

Eric: What stuns me is that the raining offices floored Ron. I mean, he - when Hermione was mentioning suggestions, you know, Finite Incantatem or just Impervius and all that stuff - these are all spells that Ron had learned at Hogwarts for years and he was just completely unable to grasp the concept. He was fiddling in his pockets for a quill to write down the spells. And Ron is just completely stumped by this raining office when Hermione told him the spells to use and he just seems really incompetent.

Matt: Well, we know Ron's reaction time isn't as quick as the rest of them; he doesn't very quick reactions. 

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: No, he doesn't.

Mikey: Yeah, but it's also one of those things where – what was it? Who was it? Yaxley? Again Yaxley said, "Fix the office and I might go easier on your wife."

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: And again, Ron's like, "I need to do this because I don't want an innocent person to, you know, be killed."

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Right. He's getting freaked out.

Mikey: So one, Ron is under pressure and stuff like that. I think you guys picked on Ron a little too much, because I like him. [laughs]

Eric: [sings] "Under pressure..."

Mikey: No, it's one of those things - yeah. [sings] "Under pressure..." But no, it's one of things where Ron definitely is put under pressure and I think Harry, even Hermione, has problems under pressure. We see that coming up in a second and I'll bring it up again. But Harry is the only one who does really well under pressure.  

Eric: "Fire!" "But there's no wood!" "Are you a witch or not?" [laughs]

Mikey: [laughs] Well no, it's also the same thing as like – again, there are Dementors all around and Hermione can't cast a Patronus. It's the only spell she's ever had problems with.

Eric: Yeah.

Mikey: Still, it's like you're under pressure. I work better under pressure, but I don't know about you guys.



The Elevator and The Courtroom


Eric: Speaking of Nazi parallels, there's a really good line in here when Jo is illustrating that Umbridge's Patronus is keeping the Dementors' cold effects from reaching the prosecutors. And it's a line that says that "morbid feeling," that "dismal existence was for the accused not the accusers."

Matt: Right, well that's in the next chapter, isn't it?

Eric: No.

Mikey: No, that's in this chapter.

Matt: Are you sure?

Eric: That's in this chapter because they're in the chamber.

Andrew: So we're there now.

Mikey: Yeah. So, we're going, now we're moving down.

Eric: Right.

Mikey: Arthur Weasley just told Ron how to get - and we're going down into - Harry puts on the Invisibility Cloak.

Andrew: Oh.

Eric: And Percy Weasley is on the elevator, he gets off the elevator - oh, and Arthur tells off Harry.

Mikey: Yeah, Arthur tells off Harry and Harry puts on the Invisibility Cloak and boom! They're down in the courtrooms. That's where we're at.

Andrew: I was very surprised by Arthur Weasley's attitude there because I don't think that's – I think that's the first we've really seen him act like that. Of course, he's not – he doesn't know it's Harry but still, I was kind of surprised by how mean he was.

Eric: Pleasantly surprised though.

Mikey: I wasn't though. They're not pushovers. You know what I mean?

Andrew: Yeah, I know.



Undesirable Number One and Eric's Wizard Rock Band


Eric: Mikey.

Mikey: They're family and – what?

Eric: It's - he's been hanging around Undesirable Number One too much. You know?

Andrew: Ah, yes.

Mikey: Yeah. That's what it is.

Andrew: Those were cool names.

Matt: Now is that me or is that title just...

Eric: It's the coolest title in the world.

Matt: ...kind of, uncreative.

Andrew: I like it.

Matt: I don't like it at all.

Eric: Who has not – see, I want to start a Wizard Rock band. I've been thinking about it for a long time and I'm going to call it – before someone else does – I want to call myself Undesirable Number One because it means...

Andrew: Well...

Eric: Because it's just another nickname for Harry Potter but it's – I don't think it's taken. So...

Andrew: That is a really good name but I think you just blew it.

Matt: You just blew it, you've got to...

Laura: Yeah.

Mikey: But guys, guys! Didn't you know? Me and Eric started that band last week.

Matt: Oh.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Eric: Yeah, yeah.

Mikey: Undesirable Number One, that's me and Eric. That's me and you right?

Eric: Yeah, totally.

Mikey: Is that what it is?

Andrew: All you've got to do is – Paul and I discussed in the interview – all you've got to do is just create a new MySpace page and boom! You have a band. You're done. So, just create the band real quick putu p a MySpace before the episode comes out.

Mikey: Yes! We should. Let's do it right now. Guys, you're listening to history in the making. Undesirable Number One is getting an e-mail at Gmail right now and a MySpace page in the next five minutes.

Eric: Mikey, if you...

Andrew: Sweet.

Eric: Could do that I'd love you forever.

Mikey: Actually I would let you do it because I'm actually looking at my bills now. I'm sorry.

Eric: That's okay, it just won't get done.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Just get that done. Okay, giving that name up for the public...

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Eric: Undesirable Number One...

Mikey: Yes.

[Eric laughs]

Mikey: Make it and the just give Eric credit for the name because it's awesome.



Back to Umbrigde's Office: Rita's Book


Andrew: Okay, well let's...

Matt: Hey guys...

Andrew: Let's keep moving along here.

Matt: Can I say something?

Andrew: Sure.

Matt: About – because we kind of passed it and I really hate going back but, I think this is a pivotal – one of the pivotal points in the chapter, when Harry looks at the book by Rita Skeeter about "The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore."

Eric: Oh, you're right. We missed that.

Matt: It has a picture of Dumbledore holding who I believe – isn't it Dumbledore? He says it could be Armando Dippet, but...

Eric: No, Doge.

Matt: Doge. Doge. That's it.

Eric: Dumbledore is there and he says it could be Doge he's holding.

Matt: I kind of thought it was like, Grindelwald or something.

Eric: I think – it's either talked – I don't think it would be Grindelwald in that picture though. See, it depends on what picture. But, the one in the book...

Matt: Yeah.

Eric: I don't know. If it's...

Andrew: What made you think it was Grindelwald?

Eric: Yeah.

Matt: I don't know. Because he was just holding his arm around him looking really happy and Dumbledore and him used to be really good friends.

Andrew: Well, what are you trying to say?

Mikey: Wellm it couldn't have been – couldn't it have been his brother?

Andrew: They were lovers. I don't know.

Mikey: Were they lovers?

Andrew: No they weren't.

Laura: No, they weren't.

Andrew: But Dumbledore loved him.

Eric: You know what else is funny? Rita Skeeter – it said, from the same author as "Armando Dippet" – what was it? "Moron." [laughs] Or something.

Andrew: Yeah, something like that.

Eric: "Master or Moron." It was pretty funny.



Back to the Courtroom and The Locket


Andrew: So, let's get to the chamber now in the courtroom. Harry is there with his Invisibility Cloak, scares Hermione by saying, "I'm behind you." This – I love this scene. I think this is so cool.

Matt: Mhm.

Andrew: Umbridge is explaining that the locket belongs to her ancestors and that just sends Harry through the roof. I can't – I really cannot wait to see this scene.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: Laura – what did you think about it, Laura?

Laura: I thought it was just fabulous. I mean you just – it's just another one of those Umbridge moments that you talk about where it's like, she's just flat out lying, like... [makes frustrated noise]

Andrew: Right.

Laura: It's so annoying.

Andrew: So easily. So easily.

Matt: What's great about when she does these lies and stuff - she knows it's a blatant lie and she knows that she can say it and it's pretty much cannon when she says it, because no one can say anything.

Mikey: See, what I was going to say is like - this is great, you know, it's this blatant lie. But if she knew what it really was, it'd be even that much more because it was Salazar Slytherin's. It was one of the founders of Hogwarts. You know, she could say, "Oh, this is an old family heirloom but it was originally Salazar Slytherin's." That's so much more than it was like, "it's been in her family for generations" and I just find it very ironic that she's making up a story that's not even as good as the actual story behind it.

Laura: Yeah, that's true.

Matt: Well if she – if she blatantly tells everybody that it's from Slytherin, people are going to start to actually research it to see if she's a liar or not. If she goes "Selwyn"...

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Matt: ...it's not as prestigious.

Mikey: No, I know. Yeah, I know, but the whole thing is though - like, the actual story behind what the locket is and what it is, is way more interesting and way more important than her made up story of "it's been in my family for years."  

Andrew: Of course!  

Eric: Umbridge has the locket around her neck and she is proud to wear it. But if Pius Thicknesse, if the Minister of Magic saw the locket at any point, you know, when maybe she was walking in, she showed it to the Minister: "Do you like my new locket?" Pius should've told - if Pius was under the Imperius control of Voldemort, Voldemort would've seen that locket, and he would've recognized that the locket was out of its hiding place. That's a potential...  

Andrew: Yeah!  

Eric: ... big plot hole that I just – I just thought of that.  

Mikey: Well again we - I thought that we said that Pius wasn't Imperiused by Voldemort.

Eric: Wasn't under Voldemort. And I think that's...  

Laura: Yeah, I don't think he was.  

Mikey: And again, I think Voldemort was lying low still. He's basically in control because all his cronies are controlling the Ministry. But he doesn't actually need to be - I think they said, I think Arthur or...  

Eric: It was Remus. It was Remus who said, "Yeah, that he doesn't have to."  

Mikey: Yeah, it's Remus that says he doesn't need to because he has virtual control without having to make himself present. And if he did make himself present, then there would probably be more people that would stand against it because then it's obvious, but...  

Eric: But I just thought it was - yeah. Yeah.  

Mikey: But I'm pretty confident it wasn't Voldemort.  

Eric: No, you're right. It's no plot hole.



Harry Attacks Umbridge, Hermione Takes The Locket


 

Andrew: So, another thing we wanted to talk about here. So, Harry sends a curse at - what was it again?

Eric: He shuts her face.  

Matt: It was Stupify.  

Andrew: It was Stupify, right.  

Mikey: Was it Stupify, again? Oh, geez.

Andrew: It was.  

Eric: Yeah, it was Stupify.. It was Stupify.

Mikey: It's a good spell, isn't it?

Andrew: It was.

Mikey: Stupify again.  

Eric: Umbridge is boom - face desk, head desk.



Why Does Locket Have No Effect on Umbridge?


 

Andrew: Which is great, and then Hermione goes into it get the locket. One thing that Matt wanted to bring up was why does the locket not have an effect on Umbridge? Because as we know later on in the book - we'll talk about it now just because Umbridge is wearing it now - Ron felt the effects of it. It made him separate from the group. So, what was it about Umbridge that...  

Matt: Well, not only that, but when they put the locket on for the first time - in the next chapter though - you could feel it, an automatic heart beat. Like, wouldn't she feel that?  

Andrew: Yeah, well not just that. Harry said he felt the slightest heart beat...  

Mikey: Heart beat and stuff, yeah. We read both chapters in preparation for this but then we just realized that the chapter's too big.  

Andrew: Yeah.  

Mikey: For two chapters, but...  

Andrew: So...

Mikey: Oh...

Andrew: The question is why - does anyone have any high ideas or theories why Umbridge wouldn't feel anything? Does it matter if you're wearing certain amount of clothing that's protecting you from physically...  

Eric: Well she does have the ruffles, the foliage...  

Andrew: Touching skin?  

Eric: But...  

Andrew: Her dress. No, I'm just kidding.  

Eric: No, well, I think she did feel it. I don't think the locket had no effect on Umbridge. But I think, though, that Umbridge was so full of malice, generally - when she got the locket, she proceeded to - I mean that is when she proceeded to make those pamphlets and start crucifying and became the head of the Muggle-born Registration Committee. She was at a really crucial, really powerful, self-important time as part of her career at the Ministry. I just think the locket would have felt good - unusually good to wear. I think it attracted her to begin with.  

Matt: Yeah.  

Eric: And it just was one of those things that empowered her to do her job and have all that malice and evil. So, she might not have noticed that it was beating a heart beat, but I think it definitely affected her it made her - sort of brought out her evil and her cruelty.  

Laura: Yeah, I agree. Definitely  

Mikey: Yeah, I have to be with Eric, but I also think maybe - also kind of shows that - because it is part Voldemort. I know that Voldemort has a direct affect on the people that see him that are not his followers. It could also mean that she was a Death Eater and he had been in his presence before and did not seem any different. I personally think that just because how evil she was, she would definitely be one of the Death Eaters.  

Matt: Mhm.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: Well, yeah.  

Mikey: And this locket would not change anything. You know?

Laura: Well...

Mikey: It's what she's been used to.  

Matt: That's kind of the same as my theory, too. Although, I think since it is a Horcrux and it's part of Voldemort - I think Horcruxes kind of have soul of its own. So, I think it could actually sense if it's in danger or not. Maybe that's why it affected Ron so much because it knew what - it kind of felt that it was kind in danger in this group of peoples' hands.  

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.  

Matt: Whereas, if it was with Umbridge, it knew it was safe or it just could sense a comfortable...  

Andrew: Oh, that's true. Yeah.  

Matt: ...aura around her or something.  

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.  

Mikey: Yeah. I could believe that. That's a good one.  

Laura: Yeah, well I think the big point of the locket is that it brings out the worst in people. If you're a good person like Ron is and it starts to magnify all of your worst traits, you're clearly not going to be very happy.

Eric: You're very fearsome.

Laura: But if you thrive in being evil like Umbridge does, then just making her power-hungry nature that much more bad would make her happy.

Matt: That's true.

Laura: So, yeah.

Matt: That's a good theory, too.

Eric: Yeah. Well, you know what Hermione does, guys? This is - this shocked me.

Andrew: But wait a second - was there anything that showed Dumbledore - or, sorry - that Umbridge - her cruelness was exemplified?

Eric: Well, it's like...

Laura: Well, the way I think - I mean...

Eric: I'm not saying it's inhuman. I'm not saying Umbridge is being super powerful now that she has the locket. I'm just saying that the locket would have felt good to wear around - as a general vibe, like...

Matt: Mhm.

Eric: ...Umbridge would be - Umbridge would be getting this vibe to be cruel, and she's proud to have this locket that is from the Sed - or Selwyn family, or whatever, which is not true.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: Well granted, also...

Laura: Well, I think that it...

Matt: Oh, sorry.

Andrew: Yeah. Let Laura go.

Laura: It's okay. All right, I think that what it shows is it kind of took her whole pure - her obsession with pure-bloods to a whole new level, because in the fifth book, she didn't really say anything about Muggle-borns, did she?

Eric: No, she just hated half-breeds, like centaurs.

Andrew: No.

Laura: It was mostly about magical creatures...

Eric: Yeah, magical creatures.

Laura: And this just took it to a whole new level. And gave her the opportunity.

Eric: Totally.

Andrew: But don't you think that was Dumbledore's - or, sorry - Voldemort's doing?

Laura: Well I think that - I think that he allowed - I think he made that easier for her to do, but it also, I think, could become more acceptable for her if she had - you know, if the locket did bring out...

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: ...that kind of...

Eric: I'm with Laura.

Laura: Evil, power-hungry...

Eric: I'm with Laura.

Laura: Personality of hers.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: Yeah, I can go with that. I'll buy that.



Duplicating the Locket


Eric: You know what's so shocking that I read, guys, is that Hermione duplicated the locket so that Umbridge didn't know it was missing. Did you guys catch that?

Laura: Mhm.

Matt: Yeah. Mhm.

Andrew: Well, of course...

Eric: But I thought...

Andrew: That's pretty important.

Eric: That's so weird. So now, not only is there a locket around Kreacher's neck, which is the false locket that R.A.B. put in the basin to replace the locket he took, but now there's actually a duplicate locket that actually has an "S," so it's almost like an exact replica of the Slytherin artifact without Voldemort's soul in it.

Matt: Uh huh.

Andrew: But that's important because if Umbridge thought it was stolen, there would have been this huge search for that locket and...

Eric: Right, but...

Andrew: ...they would have had a...

Eric: What exactly does it...

Mikey: And I'm sure Voldemort would have found out.

Eric: Matter? But what exactly does it...?

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Oh. Well...

Andrew: It matters because they don't want another reason for Death Eaters and Voldemort to come after them. Or Umbridge – like, maybe Umbridge would have been really annoyed enough to go after...

Eric: Right. Okay.

Andrew: ...Harry, Ron and Hermione to get the locket.

Eric: But at first I didn't wonder, because, I mean, after they make the big escape from the Ministry, I think - I mean, there are several moments here - and this is another point too - there are several moments - see, Mary, the wife of Redge, who they're rescuing from this trial - she's really confused because Harry is, you know, personifying the man who put her there in the first place. But they shout each other's names quite a bit when they're escaping and throwing Patronuses at the Dementors, "Harry," "Hermione," "Ron this," "Ron that," and it seems pretty obvious that it's Harry Potter, Ron Weasley and Hermione Granger that have appeared at the Ministry. It seems like Mary would be able to piece it together, or that, you know, somebody would be able to piece it together. Wouldn't they just want to come after Harry Potter anyway for being at the Ministry? Wouldn't that just make them want to come after them anyway?

Mikey: Yeah. Well, they're already after Harry Potter anyway.

Eric: I guess. Yeah.

Mikey: But no, I think the big thing about the locket is, again, without her knowing the locket's gone and making a fuss about it, Voldemort won't get wind that his locket has been found and the people involved with taking it and stealing it was his one big enemy. You know what I mean? If Voldemort knew he was destroying his Horcruxes, I think he would have gone out and made more. You know? There are so many more things he could have done than to prevent himself from ever destroying all the Horcruxes. Do you know what I mean?

Eric: You're right. Dolores...

Mikey: And Harry is this 96-year-old man...

Eric: Umbridge...

Mikey: Trying to kill, you know, the last seventeen of them.

Eric: You're right, and Umbridge would have been making a big fuss if her locket was...

Matt: Well...

Eric: Stolen.

Matt: Back to what the original question was, though, about how come it didn't affect her as much, was - I just thought about it - she didn't wear the locket as long as Ron did either, so that's probably why it didn't affect her as much as it did Ron.

Laura: Fair point. Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: I guess. Yeah.

Matt: Because it didn't - weren't they like out there for months?

Mikey: Yeah...

Laura: Yeah.

Mikey: But also, how long did she have the locket from what's his name? From...

Eric: Mundungus. Dung.

Mikey: ...Mundungus? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? She could have had it for months too, because they didn't think about this locket until - remember when Dumbledore died? That's like the summer before. Let's say that's like June or - and now it's like, what? It's like...

Eric: Now it's September.

Mikey: ...September maybe. So she's had it on straight for months then if he got it right away. Do you know what I mean?

Matt: Did he say he sold it right away though?

Mikey: And actually, no. Mundungus stole it before Dumbledore's death even, after freaking what's his name's death? After Sirius's...

Laura: Oh, good old what's-his-name!

Mikey: Which was like, years ago.

Eric: So all we know is that Umbridge came up to Dung while he was selling in Diagon Alley and said, "Do you have a permit to sell it here?" And he said no, he's like, you know, whatever, and she's like, "Give me that nice necklace, I want it."

Mikey: Yeah, "give me that and I'll turn a blind eye."

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