MuggleCast 132 Transcript (continued)
Muggle Mail: Kreacher in Deathly Hallows
Andrew: Let's move on to Muggle Mail now. We've got quite a few e-mails this week we wanted to talk about.
Micah: All right, the first mail comes from Melanie from Australia. She says - oh, we need Andy to do this, man. [Australian accent] "G'day."
Andrew: [Australian accent] G'day!
Matt: [Australian accent] G'day!
Micah: "I was listening to Episode 131 where you discuss the Dursley scene being taken out of the 'Half-Blood Prince' movie. You all said that the most important things about that scene was Dumbledore's hand and his interaction and the humor of it with the Dursleys. I would've thought that the most important part of that scene would've been Kreacher. They seem to be cutting him out entirely, which would make his placement in 'Order of the Phoenix' pointless, which was pointless to begin with, and his storyline in "Deathly Hallows" obsolete. J.K. Rowling recommended that he be put in 'Order of the Phoenix' as he would play an important part later, but I get the feeling that they are not going to use it in anyway for the 'Deathly Hallows' movie. What do you think? Keep up the good work, Melanie."
Matt: I think they could actually put it in Deathly Hallows if they make it into two films, in fact.
Micah: Yeah. This all goes back to last episode and us talking about where the movie is going to begin and also how important we thought that this scene was going to be, and I think it really goes to the overall picture of a lot of stuff being left out of Half-Blood Prince. I know we mentioned before Fluer being left out, and what makes me wonder, you know, you see all these characters not being brought back for the sixth film, but that worries me in the sense of how they're going to do Dumbledore's funeral, if they're going to do it at all, because there are a lot of people there that we haven't seen yet been named for this film.
Matt: Yeah, we haven't even seen Scrimgeour been casted yet.
Matt: [sighs] Well, honestly, I think they will cut probably Kreacher from the sixth film, because basically, if you have Kreacher in the sixth film, you have to bring back Dobby as well, don't you? Because aren't they in the same scenes together?
Matt: Doesn't Dobby bring back Kreacher when Kreacher - when Harry has to tell him something? Or ask a favor or something?
Andrew: Ithink so. Yeah.
Matt: It's kind of - well - but - I don't know. It's...
Micah: Well, I think his role is bigger in Deathly Hallows and...
Matt: Oh, it's definitely bigger.
Micah: To leave him out of that - I mean, that's why J.K. Rowling said he at least needed to make an appearance in Order of the Phoenix. I think Dobby you can kind of dance around him a little bit because he's not as integral to the story until, of course, Deathly Hallows again. I mean, it's great that he's there and he makes his appearances, but I can see how they could leave him out.
Matt: I can see them actually leaving out Kreacher and Dobby out of the sixth film, also. I wish they didn't, but I don't know. What do you think, Andrew?
Andrew: I don't know. I just - I'm very skeptical of all of this because they have about four months left of filming and, you know, they've done six months.
Matt: How can they cut Scrimgeour out of this movie?
Andrew: I don't know. This is - I don't know. It's somewhat worrying, but...
Micah: It would be a great opening scene. I mean, we talked about this also last week and how the movie would open, and I can't remember, Andrew, if you cut this out of the show, when Eric had the realization that the movie would open with Spinner's End as opposed to this scene which we thought would end up being Harry and Dumbledore walking up the path to Slughorn's house. But then Eric realized that Spinner's End comes before that. But I think it would be a great opening to have that discussion between Scrimgeour and the Muggle Prime Minister, you know?
Andrew: It's important.
Micah: You sort of learn...
Andrew: I think it's a very ominous way to start. Although, it seems like...
Micah: I agree.
Matt: It's also one of the last times you see Fudge.
Micah: On her e-mail here, though - I mean, I know Kreacher is in this chapter that we were talking about, but, I mean, it can really just be overlooked by a conversation between Dumbledore and Harry, where Dumbledore says, you know, "Sirius left you Grimmauld Place, Kreacher, and Buckbeak." And that's it, you know? I don't really know that he needs to make an appearance.
Matt: Do you think they'll bring back Buckbeak in Half-Blood Prince, because it was a big project in Prisoner of Azkaban, and it seems like all the big projects - especially the characters that they CGI never returns unless it's the biggest - unless it has a huge part.
Andrew: They do keep them though.
Matt: They do - I'm saying like with Dobby and...
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
Micah: Which is disappointing to the sort of crazed fan, I guess, if you call them that, or the - kind of like you were just saying, I mean, we don't want all these things to be left out because we'd like to just have that being in there even if it's only there for 10, or 15 seconds, because it shows that they pay attention to the books.
Micah: And they're not going to neglect the fans, and like, you know, David Barron's quote, they cash in so, who cares? I don't really think the cost should be an issue about them including a Buckbeak, or a Dobby, or a Kreacher. They make it seem like it, but yet these movies rake in so much money it's a wonder why they use that as the excuse for not including them.
Matt: But also each film does get more expensive than the previous one does too. We're probably not really considering something that kind of makes a big deal.
Andrew: Yeah. It's hard to say, like - I don't even, like - okay, I'm not one to brag that I went to the set, but I went to the set and I don't even know these answers, so I think we just have to wait and see what they're going to do. Back to my original point though, it is worrying that they are six months into filming and we still don't have a full list of casting announcements. I mean that doesn't even make sense.
Matt: Yeah, and we haven't heard many castings either. We haven't heard any major casting since when? Since when? Since what? Would you count even...
Micah: Well, I think the last casting...
Matt: Would you count even Pansy?
Andrew: ...we heard about was young Tom Riddle.
Matt: No, I think it was Pansy Parkinson.
Andrew: Oh, oh it was. Yeah, that was really recently, actually. Yeah.
Micah: We're talking about big casting, I mean...
Micah: Not since Jim Broadbent, I think. Well, to be honest, you're talking about major characters? Not to belittle young Tom Riddle, or Pansy Parkinson, but I mean...
Matt: Lavender Brown, even.
Andrew: No, she was cast.
Matt: I know, that's what I'm saying. She's not really that big of a character.
Micah: You know, I'm not trying to diminish their roles, but we're talking - I'm thinking more along the lines of for Half-Blood Prince Slughorn, Scrimgeour, the Gaunts, which are another group of people who haven't been cast, and seemingly getting closer and closer to what looks like being cut from the film.
Matt: It does - it does - it does really kind of look like they're centering a lot around the students around Hogwarts this time.
Matt: Like they said, it's starting to be like a romantic comedy.
Matt: And I just hope they're not delving too much into that genre and kind go away from what actually the book is about.
Micah: Yeah, what about - which centaur is it that teaches Divination in this book?
Micah: Firenze? Yeah. I mean, are they bringing him back?
Matt: They didn't even bring him in in the fifth film.
Andrew: Let's move on to the next e-mail now, though, because, you know, we actually did get a lot of feedback about, you know, that discussion about how the Half-Blood Prince should open up, so we'll talk about it more next week, you know, maybe we'll just talk about this little by little as the movie gets closer.
Muggle Mail: Grindewald Dueling Gregorovitch, the Elder Wand, and Andrew's Fastest Show Close
Matt: Our next e-mail comes from Smee, 19, from flooded Australia. Is that really a name? Or is...
Andrew: No, I think she's saying that Australia is flooded right now.
"Hey guys and girl. Just wanted to correct you in on your discussion of Grindelwald acquiring the Elder Wand from Gregorovitch. You guys mentioned that the power of the Wand mustn't have transferred to Grindelwald because he didn't duel Gregorovitch. But that isn't true. Right before he jumped out the window, Grindelwald shot a stunning spell at Gregorovitch, effectively winning the Wand from him because he had outsmarted Gregorovitch, winning him the Elder Wand's allegiance. I had thought that you didn't need to fight the person in order to get the Wand from them. You just had to outsmart them in some way, though as Jo writes in later chapters, the Elder Wand has a bloody history because everyone believes you must kill the previous owner in order to win the Wand's power. Also, just a note to say that Jo described Grindelwald as having delight in his handsome face, and when he shot the stunning spell, he was described as handsome, not beautiful.
By the way, whatever happened to the - whatever happened to the outcome of Andrew's fastest show close? I was looking forward to finding out, but we never did hear anything on the next
episode. Anyway, look forward to next week's episode. Love, Smee."
Andrew: Well, about the fastest show close, I don't know. We never got an email comparing the times, so I don't know.
Matt: So what do you guys think?
Andrew: I don't know. Micah, you want to field this one, because I wasn't...
Micah: Because I was on last week's show.
Micah: Yeah. I - this all goes back to - we were having a debate or I guess Mikey and Eric were talking about how...
Matt: Mikey and Eric were talking?
Andrew: No! No!
Micah: Ohhh, yeah.
Matt: That's bad. Take that out, please.
Andrew: No, that was funny! No!
Micah: That was funny. That was funny. I think the point that she's trying to make is that last week we had mentioned that Grindelwald didn't actually acquire the Wand in a dueling fashion. He just took it and so he was never the true owner of it, if that makes sense. And I think what Smee is arguing is that - well, he shot a stunning spell so that is how he was able to take the Wand. But I mean, I guess it goes back to if you know really how the ownership side of it works, because if you - if you look at what Draco did, I mean, he only disarmed Dumbledore. That's how he became the new owner of the Elder Wand. And I guess that goes to her point about Jo saying that it had such a bloody history because the people thought that you needed to kill your opponent in order to acquire the Elder Wand, but in reality, if you look at it, I mean, with the Draco situation, he didn't kill Dumbledore. He just disarmed him and then the power was transferred. So I guess something as simple as a stunning spell can transfer the power as well. I mean...
Matt: Well, that also goes back to...
Micah: I don't know.
Matt: ...the first book, too. When everyone had the assumption that since Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald that he killed him, but...
Micah: Right. Right.
Matt: ...defeat doesn't technically mean you kill.
Matt: It just means you overcome them in a battle or something.
Micah: Yeah. And it's also why Jo was so quiet on the issue for so long, never really defining what she meant by the word "defeated." And I guess now we all know why in this book.
Matt: Now vanquish! That's kill. That's kill.
Muggle Mail: Ron's Abilities
Andrew: Let's move on to the next e-mail. It comes from Jordan, 16, of Roanoke, Virginia. He writes:
"Hey MuggleCasters. While listening to Episodes 130 and 131, I heard a lot of debate about Ron's magical ability. One incident in the books has made me sure of Ron's magical power throughout the series. In Chapter 7 of 'Chamber of Secrets' when Ron is puking up slugs after his wand backfires, Hermione says that the curse he used was difficult to work at the best of times. Ron cast the curse with a broken wand and, aside from it coming out the wrong end of the wand, it had the exact effect it was meant for. And he was only 12 at the time! Think of how much better his spellwork must have become over the years. I honestly think that Ron is the most powerful and useful to everyone, including himself, when he doesn't think about what he's doing. If he thinks, he second-guesses himself, which is the worst thing to do while under pressure. That's just my two cents worth. Love the show and keep up the great work."
I agree with that point. I think that's a very good point.
Matt: I think that he's the most powerful of himself. Let's not go overboard here. I don't think he's the most powerful of all of them.
Andrew: But I do agree about - and I think maybe this is what Jordan's getting at - when you overthink something, you can second guess yourself. And let me give you a real-world example and some people are going to relate and some people are going to think it's really stupid. When you play "Dance Dance Revolution," or "Guitar Hero," you can't think about what you're doing. You just have to stare at it and just not concentrate. If you just let it - if you just don't focus intently, you will play, or dance, much better than you would if you focus on it. And trust me on that because that happens to me all of the time and when I'm showing people how to play it, you know, that's what I tell them to do, and it makes a difference. You just can't focus on something or, like Jordan says, you'll over guess yourself. Second guess yourself. Second guess yourself.
Matt: Third guess yourself.
Andrew: Good point. Yeah? No?
Matt: Yeah sure, it's not that stupid.
Andrew: Okay, well, good.
Micah: Glad we agree.
Muggle Mail: Clear Sound
Andrew: Next e-mail I have to take from Christian Wagner, 17, of [imitating a southern accent] "Tennessee." I'm just kidding, you guys don't know all talk like that. He or she writes:
"Hey! How do you get such a clear sound from the conference call you use to record your podcasts?"
And my answer to that is that we're actually awesome. Who wants to read the next e-mail?
Muggle Mail: Harry Potter on T.V.
Micah: The last e-mail comes from Jean Gray. Interesting...
Matt: [gasps] Didn't she not die?
Micah: 39, from Lansing, Illinois. She says: "I've recently begun listening to your podcast..."
Andrew: Wait, wait, wait. For all of us at home, who's Jean Gray? I don't know.
Matt: She was in X-Men.
Andrew: Oh, I don't know, sorry.
Matt: You don't watch X-Men, Andrew?
Andrew: No, no...
Matt: And you're supposed to be a nerd?
Andrew: No! I'm not a nerd.
Matt: Oh. Are you a geek?
Andrew: No. I'm cool.
"I've recently begun listening to your podcast, so forgive me if you've already addressed this question. What do you think about turning the 'Harry Potter' series into a weekly television series, either in live action, or a cartoon format? Thanks. Love the show."
Andrew: I put this e-mail in here, because we get this question from time to time, actually, and I just think we should go on the record with our thoughts about that. I mean, at this point, Harry Potter has sold out so much. Theme park, merchandising such as t-shirts, cups, mugs, book bags, blankets - you know, everything is Harry Potter now. You know, I think a T.V. show - with everything Harry Potter that's out there today, nothing adds new plots or anything to the Harry Potter story, whereas a T.V. show would, unless you're actually turning the books into T.V. shows, but then that rules out the movies, so, you know, it overlaps on the movies, so I don't think this would ever happen. Ever.
Matt: Yeah. At least not with the already written Harry Potter series.
Matt: I mean - because you read it to me yesterday, and I mentioned, well, if anything, they would have to probably do it with like a prequel to it, like Hogwarts with the Marauders or, you know, just something like that, but I don't think that they would sell out Harry Potter that much to make it a television or cartoon series.
Micah: Live action, I think, is going a little bit too far. I could see cartoon if anything. This way they don't have to worry about cost of things like House-elves or things like that, which they seemed so concerned about.
Micah: I can see a cartoon format, possibly.
Andrew: Of the plot that already exists?
Micah: Yeah, see, that's - you could.
Matt: I can see like maybe an animated prequel. Honestly, I don't think they're going to remake anything that has already been done.
Micah: But to Matt's point, I think it would be a Marauders-type storyline. Maybe they could tell the story of when they're in school.
Micah: I think that's a possibility. I think maybe post-Deathly Hallows is a possibility. I don't think that like - Andrew, you were saying before, I don't think you can take the seven books and re-do them because you have the movies. Why do you need a T.V. series?
Matt: I wouldn't mind seeing an animated version of it, because it'd be a lot more easier to do. Won't have so much limits.
Matt: But yeah, I really don't see them re-making anything.
Micah: Yeah, I agree.
Andrew: Well, yeah, okay. I agree with you guys. I just thought it was worth mentioning really quickly.
Micah: Don't over do it.
Andrew: Yeah, we're not.
Chapter-by-Chapter: Chapter 15, "The Goblin's Revenge"
Andrew: Okay, so let's move onto Chapter-by-Chapter now. We were going to do two chapters this week but then we realized, "Ah, well, there's only three of us. We'll just play it on the safe side and do one chapter." And that chapter is Chapter 15, which is called...
Matt: "The Goblin's Revenge."
Andrew: To kick it off with a short summary, basically the trio are continuing their search for the Horcruxes, and they're spending more time in this chapter in the forest just camping out. And these scenes have been sort of criticized by a lot of people because it's like, "Oh, they're just hanging around camping, and it's kind of boring." So we'll get into talking about that a little bit later, but at the end of this chapter is a very cool scene that at least Matt and I, probably Micah too, are really looking forward to see in the movie. And that's the big fighting scene at the end between the trio. But first, Matt, you wanted to start off with Mad-Eye's eye.
Matt: Yeah, he chapter starts off with Harry waking up first before Hermione and Ron do, and he sets out looking for a place to bury Mad-Eye's swiveling, whirling blue eye. And in the book it says - it describes the tree that he's looking for - he's trying to find "the oldest, gnarled, resilient-looking tree." And I thought that that kind of described as what Mad-Eye Moody was as recognized by the Order. He was the older and more experienced one. He was kind of gnarled looking, and he was the most resilient of the Order, I would say. Would you say that?
Micah: Yeah, it's a good catch. Yeah.
Andrew: That's actually really cool.
Andrew: Because Jo doesn'teven really point that out, you just sort of have to read in between the lines there for that.
Matt: That's why I read really slowly, Andrew.
Andrew: I thought you were just dumb.
Is This Chapter Boring?
Andrew: Hmmm. Learn something new everyday. So the next thing I wanted to talk about was just [sighs] I'm sorry, but we talked about this on the road tour a bit, we've talked about this on other episodes too. I just did not like how this chapter progresses in the beginning. They're just spending time in the forest, going around to different locations, and nothing's really happening until, of course, the little group shows up right by their campsite. But... Is this...
Matt: Well, that's the whole point of this chapter...
Matt: ...is the fact that they're not doing anything, and Ron and Hermione are starting to get doubtful of Harry's ability to do this task.
Andrew: I know, but shouldn't the trio had - shouldn't they have had researched it a bit more? I realize they couldn't have gone...
Matt: With what? They're in the woods.
Matt: They're in the woods.
Andrew: I realize they couldn't have gone to Grimmauld Place, but this just should've all been executed better. And obviously, everything worked out in the end, but I just - I don't like this part of the book, this specific area where they're just going through the forest. I just think it's too dull and typical.
Micah: I have to agree with Matt, though. I think it was put in here to show just exactly what was going on, and it's sort of there to build up the whole fight that takes place at the end of the chapter, and the fact that they're not getting information, that they're not learning anything new, that there isn't a plan and anything that - you know, Harry is just in a position now where Ron and Hermione are talking behind his back and they're scared because they don't really know if they can trust him in the sense of knowing what to do moving forward. They think that Dumbledore had this great plan that Harry is following, but it turns out that they were wrong. And I mean that's why it shows the fact that they're moving from place to place and the season is changing. It's just to build up all this angst between them. And, you know, I don't know, that's just my thought on it.
Matt: Yeah, I agree with that too. I mean this is basically one of those moments where they realize that how much influence of information they had when Dumbledore was alive. They always had someone to go to, but now they're realizing they have to do everything themselves. They have to be the clever, resilient ones and not rely on, at the last moment, someone coming in to help them with great information or something. They have to do it themselves. And I think this is one of those moments where Harry is the most alone out of everybody, because he's always had Ron and Hermione always having his back, but now that he is seeing Ron and Hermione talking behind him, obviously not hiding the fact that they're kind of doubting Harry a little bit. It makes Harry...
Micah: Yeah. For somebody who's always shared information, every piece of information with them, he feels kind of left out. And obviously, you can always make it out to be these "useless chapters" or "useless scenes" where they're just going from place to place to place. But I think it also shows you just the reality of the situation that they're in. The reality of the war that they're in - that they have to keep moving from place to place, that they have to cover their tracks. You know, make sure that nobody knows that they've been there. And every place they go, they have to put up new enchantments and it's kind of just a necessary...
Matt: You're constantly on the run.
Micah: Yeah, it had to be there.
Matt: It does take a toll on you.
Andrew: Okay, okay, okay. I guess you guys are right. I get it!
Matt: All right? [laughs]
Micah: [laughs] Nice.
Andrew: No, you bring up a good point. It's all a part of a setup in the chapter.
Micah: Hey, Matt. You owe me ten bucks for making Andrew convinced.
Andrew: Okay, this isn't going to be in the movie though.
Micah: On that bet we had.
Matt: All right.
Andrew: Well, maybe one scene where they're like in there, and you see Ron and Hermione talking behind Harry's back. Maybe we'll even get to hear what they're saying.
Matt: That's a huge slap in the face, too. I mean your friends - how can you talk behind their back? Although, it's definitely the locket doing most of the work because Hermione isn't really the one who's really angry at Harry. She's just kind of taking whatever Ron says. Because when someone rants to your friend, even if you don't agree with them, you just sit there and go, "Yeah, yeah, I know. Uh-huh."
Matt: "Yeah, pretty much. Yeah."
Conversation Between Goblins and Muggle-borns
Andrew: Yeah, so the next thing we wanted to talk about was the conversation between the Goblins and the Muggle-borns. Big surprise here, Dean Martin makes a little cameo.
Micah: Dean Martin?
Andrew: Dean Thomas, sorry.
Andrew: Dean Martin?! That would be quite the cameo.
Matt: It's like, "Dean Martin, what are you doing here dude?" "I don't have any movies going on at the moment, so..."
Andrew: Yeah, that would be...
Andrew: Plus, I'm pretty sure he's dead. So, no Dean Martin. Dean Thomas, sorry, makes a cameo. And who else is there?
Matt: Two Goblins. One was Griphook and some other one.
Andrew: The other was an unnamed one, wasn't it?
Matt: Oh, oh...
Matt: Ted Tonks was in it.
Micah: Ted Tonks isn't a Goblin.
Matt: Oh, but he's there. [laughs] I don't know what the other guy's name is.
Andrew: I think he's unnamed. Isn't he, Micah?
Micah: Gornuk? Gornuk? Something like that.
Andrew: Oh, or not. He's unnamed in my mind.
Micah: Sure. Yeah, he...
Andrew: Go ahead.
Micah: No, I was just going to say, "Yeah sure, he's unnamed."
Ginny, Neville, and Luna Try to Steal Sword of Gryffindor
Andrew: So they we're talking about three things in particular that we wanted to discuss. First of all, the trio finds out that Ginny, Neville, and Luna all tried to steal the sword of Gryffindor. Why? [laughs]
Matt: Why do they steal it? Does it ever get explained at the end of the book?
Andrew: Yeah, I don't know. Micah, do you know?
Micah: You know, I'm afraid of saying something that's going to be wrong.
Micah: I don't know that it was ever explained. But this made me think, I mean, did Ginny...
Matt: Wait a minute! Wait a minute! I know.
Matt: Dumbledore left it for Harry. Ginny probably told them that that is Harry's and they want to steal it back for him.
Micah: Yeah, but how would Ginny know that - unless she overheard the...
Matt: Harry may have told her.
Micah: ...contents of the will.
Matt: We don't know everything that they do.
Micah: [laughs] That's probably a good thing.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.
Matt: I don't know. That's my thought.
Andrew: So I guess that was a pleasant surprise. But just my immediate reaction to that was, "All right, come on guys. You're not the new trio. Let's just, you know, leave it up to Harry, Ron, and Hermione." It's a bold move, and I guess if I were Harry I would have really appreciated that, although, you know, I guess Harry and Hermione were pretty excited to hear that. Ron not so much because of the punishment, but...
Micah: Yeah. We'll talk about Ron in a minute.
Matt: It just shows them there's a revolt in Hogwarts from the students.
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