MuggleCast 133 Transcript (continued)
Chapter-by-Chapter: Chapter 16, "Godric's Hollow"
Andrew: Let's dive in straight to Chapter-by-Chapter this week, because we have a lot to discuss. We're going to do two chapters this week. Going to kick it off with Chapter 16: Godric's Hollow. A short but very important chapter. It's one we all speculated about before the book came out. We were all saying Harry was going to - he had to go back to Godric's Hollow. I mean it's now or never. So who wants to kick it off with a short summary?
Eric: I'll do the short summary. Okay, so the short summary is, for this chapter, Chapter 16, "Godric's Hollow": Following Ron's departure, Harry and Hermione struggle for productivity as they agree to go and find Godric's Hollow, a journey which ends at the tomb of the Potters.
Andrew: So the chapter starts off with just a lot of - a lot of narration. I mean Harry's feeling - Harry and Hermione are feeling the effects of Ron being away.
Andrew: Right. And he's thinking about Ginny. You know, all this being away hurts.
Eric: Yeah, they keep looking out - they hear noises at the door, like if Ron were to come back in. Hermione pretty much just - she delays them leaving the place where they were 'cause Ron, like, won't be able to find them after that, that sort of thing. And Harry resorts to the Marauder's Map, and he begins watching people at Hogwarts. Initially, he thinks he's going to see Ron show up there again, you know, because he sold out for the, sort of, three meals a day that he's used to. But turns out he just ends up watching Ginny. And Ginny becomes a comfort to him, and he wishes more than anything that she knows that he still cares about her. So - and also connection to Hogwarts, they begin to speak with Phineas Nigellus.
Absence of Hogwarts
Eric: Now did you guys like how this was done? The whole [chuckles] how they kind of came to an agreement with Phineas, and they began to seek answers about what was happening at Hogwarts?
Laura: Yeah, I thought it was pretty cool that they utilized him that way.
Matt: Well, don't you think that Snape was the one who told him to keep an eye on him?
Eric: Well, we know that now I guess.
Laura: Yeah, it's - yeah.
Eric: But what do they find from...
Andrew: Yeah, I guess so.
Eric: ...this - from these meetings? What do they...
Andrew: Not much.
Laura: No, I mean they mainly just find out what's going on at Hogwarts. Like, that a few students are kind of rebelling against Snape and...
Eric: Harry theorizes that the D.A. is still alive and well.
Andrew: Which was interesting...
Andrew: ...'cause, like, while I was reading this for the first time, it's just weird, like, thinking about you don't know what's going on at Hogwarts for the first time.
Andrew: Like - it's just like you try to picture what - what is going on. It would be interesting...
Andrew: ...to, you know, hear this part of the book from Ginny's perspective or Luna's or...
Eric: Well, as the...
Eric: ...as the reader, you're right. As the reader, you feel very empty because you haven't seen the seventh Halloween feast, you know. [laughs] I mean, you know? When you're first given the first Harry Potter book you were expecting seven Halloween feasts, and seven Christmas feasts, and you're just - you're not getting it.
Going to Godric's Hollow
Eric: So they finally get off their bums and they decide they're going to Godric's Hollow. Okay? Harry says, "You know what? I want to go to Godric's Hollow." And Hermione says, "Well, that's a good idea. I kind of want to go there, too." And - so they plan on it and basically, there's a few very interesting facts about Godric's Hollow, which I put in the notes here for you guys about Godric's Hollow. This is sort of what we know. Now it's still a bit confusing for me how Harry knew to go there at the end of Book 6, but needless to say, by this point in Book 7, he has reason to go there based on what he...
Andrew: Well, I don't think - I don't think he - he had - he had reason other than he just wanted to see his parents' grave, right?
Eric: But my question was how did he - my former question on the show had been how did he know that his parents were buried there? But I guess that makes sense, I guess, you know?
Andrew: Yeah, nothing's really happening here. I mean this is just - this is just a big moment for Harry just because he's finally seeing his parents' grave.
Elysa: Just a Lifetime movie.
Andrew: What's that?
Eric: It is like a Lifetime movie.
Laura: I heard that, Elysa Montfort! [laughs]
Elysa: I said it was just like a Lifetime movie. I mean three-quarters of the chapter I felt like I was watching Lifetime with a bunch of other girls sewing.
Eric: Have some sympathy! You heartless fan fiction mob.
Elysa: No! No, no, no, no, no. Listen, listen - don't get me wrong, I cried at the end of this chapter.
Eric: Sure you did.
Elysa: I was really emotional...
Eric: Sure you did.
Elysa: ...but that's part of why it's a freaking - that's why it's a Lifetime movie. Isn't it? Isn't that sort of the - the staple of watching Lifetime?
Andrew: Okay, you're talking to four guys and one other girl. I don't think - one other girl, who...
Matt: I love this chapter, you guys. Why are you guys bagging on it? Harry cried!
Elysa: No! I liked it too!
Laura: No, this is a fabulous chapter.
Elysa: I liked it too.
Andrew: So they get into Godric's Hollow, and Harry and Hermione come upon this statue of the Potters and, like, I thought that was just so cool that there's this statue of you as a child with your parents. The town has this statue there. It's been there for seventeen years and he just stares at it for a minute, and there's really no like realization, there's no like - in the book it's just written Harry's staring at it. I don't know. Don't you guys think there should have been more like...
Laura: Yeah, but wouldn't that freak you out?
Eric: That's a moment...
Andrew: Okay, maybe it was a lot, and maybe it was a lot for him all at once.
Eric: I think I can connect. I think I connect with the exact response that's in the book, because you got to realize that Harry's survival impacted the entire Wizarding World, you know? Even though Voldemort is a terrorist who's in England, you know, being the most powerful dark wizard ever, he's pretty much the threat to the entire world. Harry's defeat of him meant something to people so much larger than Harry would ever meet, and will ever know, and so coming to this statue, which he had never seen before, it was just, you know, it had been there for seventeen years. I think that's fitting, and it's just - he's like the last person to see this statue of him and his parents, and it's just - it's just really like, you know, there's nothing to say or do. He's just there. It's not a lack of emotional response; it's just an abundance of it.
Micah: Plus it's a conscious decision on his part, or maybe a subconscious decision that he can't pay too close attention to things like that, just because there's that threat that he may be being watched by somebody else. Obviously that ends up happening, but, you know, if he just goes into an emotional breakdown, and he's under Polyjuice Potion, you know, wouldn't that seem kind of weird that some middle-aged guy is breaking down in front of a statue and...
Laura: Well, also we see later...go ahead.
Elysa: No, I think I was going to say the same thing that you're going to say, which is just that we see a lot of the emotion later when he's at his parents' grave and then again, you know, a little less sadness, but when they see that sign that pops up later, with all the graffiti written on it and stuff...?
Elysa: So I think there was so much emotion already transpiring in that short period of time that it didn't really - I don't know - it didn't really surprise me that there wasn't anything more intense at that point, but I understand that point completely, but it didn't really surprise me.
Laura: Yeah. And also the way I think about it is - I think that seeing a statue of him and his family, like a memorial, is really not all that different than reading about his family in textbooks like he did at school because it was just a representation. I think it became...
Eric: Well, he didn't - sorry to interrupt. Hermione was always the one to read about Harry in the books.
Laura: Yeah, I know, but she was the one who told him about it. I mean, that's all very much a surreal experience because it didn't become real to him. Like he actually said that - I mean, he actually detailed the idea of his parents' bodies being beneath him under the ground.
Eric: And he said he almost wanted to crawl in and sleep with them.
Laura: Yeah, and it wasn't until then that it became real, I don't think.
Andrew: Well, let's jump to the gravestones.
Matt: Yeah, please.
Andrew: You guys are just all about proving me wrong about future events.
Micah: Well, I just wanted...
Andrew: Go ahead, Micah.
Micah: ...to mention one thing. I thought it was interesting that it first appeared as a war memorial, and then...
Eric: Yeah, what was up with that?
Micah: ...it turned into the Potters.
Elysa: Yeah, what kind of war memorial?
Eric: Well, it could be that - well, think about the Godric's Hollow - think about Godric's Hollow - Godric's Hollow is not a full - an all-magical town like Hogsmeade. Hogsmeade's the only all-magical establishment in Britain, but Godric's Hollow's kind of a half-magical...
Eric: ...half-Muggle thing. Now think about Harry and Hermione, who are under the Polyjuice Potion as Muggles. I think that the war memorial, considering Lily and James are only significant to magic people. You know, I mean, they're significant to Muggles, but Muggles would never understand why. You couldn't even begin to explain, so I think if the wizards are going to build a memorial to - I mean, quite like the Potters' house, which you see in the next chapter, it's just - I think the whole idea with that was that the war memorial was, you know, once they got closer to it kind of revealed itself just like the cottage did because they weren't Muggles.
Micah: My point was that it's more symbolic. That...
Eric: Oh, it's a battle-scar.
Micah: ...you know, the Potters...what?
Eric: It's like a...
Micah: The Potters are the central point of this war against Voldemort, and the fact that a war memorial changed over to, you know, a statue of Lily, James, and Harry I thought was, you know, symbolic in a sense of what is taking place in this book.
Micah: That was more of where I...
Elysa: The war memorial, though, isn't that what the Muggles see? Isn't that sort of the disguise for Lily, and James, and Harry?
Laura: Yeah, that's what I thought.
Elysa: I was just curious as to which war that was for. I mean, obviously it has to be something valid if it's going to fool the Muggles.
Eric: Yeah, or the Australian-American war.
Andrew: Okay, so the graves. They go through the graveyard, they're finding different people, and Harry's getting frustrated because Hermione keeps pointing out different graves other than his parents', but then finally, of course, it's Hermione who finds the grave. Well, okay, first we'll talk about the inscription on Kendra and...
Andrew: Ariana Dumbledore's grave. I guess, Eric, you had this in here so you should probably talk about it.
Eric: Yeah. There's two inscriptions they come across in this graveyard. One of them is on the grave of Dumbledore's mother and sister, and the other one is on James and Lily's tomb. And Harry makes note of the second one and has some open dialogue about Hermione, but the first one on Kendra and Ariana's grave is - reads as such: "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." What do you guys think that means?
Laura: Well, first of all, that's from the Bible. It's from Matthew 6:21.
Laura: It is. Actually...
Andrew: Now wait a second, how did you know that? Did you Google it afterwards?
Laura: Yeah, I looked it up. And basically, both of these phrases are from the Bible.
Micah: Aww, isn't that nice that Jo did a little tribute to Laura Mallory in Deathly Hallows?
Eric: "Here lies Laura Mallory."
Andrew: That's a little too much.
Laura: But actually if you...
Eric: [unintelligible] ...in the dust rather than the marble of the graves.
Laura: It's really interesting if you read Matthew 6 and you're looking at lines 19 through 21. That section is called "Lay Up Treasures in Heaven." And it says, "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But lay up for yourselves treasures in Heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
Laura: And I thought it was really fitting to say that you should really treasure the important things in your life and not link your entire being to material possessions that will have no meaning when you're gone.
Eric: That's kind of...
Elysa: Isn't that a little ironic if - isn't Dumbledore the one who put that inscription on it?
Eric: Yeah, and that's the open dialogue.
Eric: When they talk about this Harry says, "It makes sense that Dumbledore would be the one to choose this, because he was they oldest member of his family after Kendra and Ariana died."
Matt: Well, it's possible it's something that his mother said. I mean he had to have gotten his loving nature from someone in his family. Maybe his mother was the one who was very loving and concerning, and probably that's where Dumbledore got most of his sense from.
Eric: I like that.
Andrew: Elysa, do you have something else to say about that?
Elysa: No, no. I just wanted - I wasn't quite sure what it meant. At first my thought was that maybe - I don't know. I don't know what I was thinking. But I thought that there was maybe some sort of significance to it and - like a Horcrux or something. But obviously...
Matt: Yeah, I was kind of thinking the same thing. Like, "Where your treasure is there your heart will be."
Elysa: Exactly, yeah.
Matt: Like your treasure you put your soul into.
Elysa: Right. Exactly.
Eric: I think we're meant to think that a little bit. Because obviously...
Matt: Yeah, just a little bit.
Eric: It's to be contrasted. With the kind of life that Voldemort is living, that he has souls and Horcruxes for the fact that treasure and heart can mean nothing about means of survival in the mortal world, but be actually really meaningful.
Andrew: I think that makes perfect sense, the Horcrux parallel.
Andrew: It makes good sense. I mean, you know, obviously Matthew wasn't jotting this down about Horcruxes and J.K. Rowling 2,000 years later.
Laura: Honestly though, I don't think that - I mean we know that Jo is a Christian. I don't think that she would use a biblical quote in reference to something evil like a Horcrux.
Eric: Well no, but it's the kind of thing about being well written is that you can imply all these things from it, you can take all these things out of it. She's also...
Laura: Oh yeah, I know.
Eric: All the time that she wrote that - in this chapter just five times it's appeared - how the little beating heart inside the locket is going faster, and faster, and faster.
Elysa: I think maybe it might have been less of a reference to a Horcrux directly and more of a reference of, you know, anti-Horcrux perhaps.
Eric: That's what I mean; it's contrasted. It's to be absolutely contrasted.
Eric: It has nothing to do with a Horcrux but you're meant to think - or, you know, it's in there. It's definitely there to think about it.
Eric: So on James and Lily's tomb, what about the second inscription? And Harry questions that isn't this what a Death Eaters' think? It says, "The last enemy that will be defeated is Death."
Elysa: I like that one.
Andrew: Harry sort of ruined the moment - yeah - Harry sort of ruined the moment for me right there though, because it seemed like he was getting angry, wasn't he?
Eric: He was. Well, he read it wrong because Hermione's like, "it's not a bad thing."
Micah: This is a very angry chapter, though.
Micah: If you're sort of following Harry throughout everything that's been going on in this book in particular, and you're not a fan of Dumbledore - I know there are a couple of people like Jess out there.
Eric: Who should be spammed.
Micah: But you get very aggravated. At least I did, re-reading the chapter, with Dumbledore. Because here you have, I think, just two rows behind the Potters' graves behind Ariana and Kendra Dumbledore's. And you start thinking to yourself, why was Harry never brought to Godric's Hollow? Why was Harry never given this information? And it really starts to sink in because, up until this point, it's sort of been like, "Okay, Dumbledore didn't pass along this information, you can deal with it." But once you start to see the reality that Harry's going through, that he's sitting at his parents' grave, and Dumbledore had this information all along and never shared anything with him. I mean I would...
Laura: I would be frustrated too.
Eric: You're right, this is the moment where it hits, Micah. And I mean, you did the news item where J.K. Rowling had said there was legitimate concern in that Dumbledore was - well, I guess using Harry as a puppet was the term used. But I mean, this is the moment where Harry's thinking about walking with Dumbledore. What an emotional impact he thinks that would be for them both to have walked there. I think the term is, "What a strong bond that would be for Dumbledore to have taken him to this place," and he didn't! And the line is something to the effect of, "was it more important to just get Harry to do what he wanted him to do?" And I mean you're right, this is the chapter where it starts really hitting home.
Micah: Well, not even Dumbledore. Nobody ever took him.
Eric: Well, nobody took him, yeah. That's kind of sad, too.
Matt: Well, do you think that Dumbledore really thought about - before he died - about this precaution? About how danger it'd would be if he went back to Godric's Hollow?
Eric: It's a good question.
Micah: I think he would have been able to deal with the situation without ever drawing attention to those graves. Yes, they're close together, but I still think Dumbledore may have been able to go to Godric's Hollow and sort of not pay any attention to the two graves that were there. And maybe in the end that's the reason why he never took Harry there. Maybe that would be the explanation, that it would have been too difficult for him to deal with everything surrounding his mother and his sister.
Laura: Yeah. Now, Andrew, I actually want to hear what you think this little inscription means. I thought your interpretation was interesting.
Interpretation of Inscription
Andrew: Okay, well, what I think - okay, Hermione's probably right; I'll just say that first. However, when I look at it and I think about it, I feel like it means that - this might sound stupid but this is just an alternate interpretation - that once everyone in the world is dead then there will no longer be death, and it is therefore defeated. Let me read the line back. "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." It will be defeated, it won't exist anymore, because everyone is dead already and they can't die anymore.
Laura: Okay, but that's like - okay, that would be like saying that everything on the planet would have to die though. Like including the planet itself.
Elysa: Honestly, I never thought of it like that, and I don't think it's a stupid theory at all. I just think that...
Elysa: I really don't. I think that it sort of assumes that maybe in order for you to destroy death you have to eradicate it. And I think that for something as ambivalent as...[coughs]...excuse me - death that it's something that has to be overcome and not eradicated. And I sort of think that that's where Laura's interpretation fits in, is that if you can overcome it, then that is sort of destroying death in a sense. And I think that James and Lily were overcoming it through keeping Harry alive through their sacrifice, as she has suggested.
Andrew: Well, Laura, what is your interpretation?
Laura: Well, it's basically what Elysa just said, that it's for anybody who has overcome their fear of death, and I mean I think of James and Lily, who are living on in their son. And I think that regardless of what your belief in any sort afterlife is, you do leave an impression in this world, whether it's through your children or through things that you've done. I really think that you do. And just like reading it in terms of how it's presented in the Bible - because it's in Corinthians - it's like Corinthians 15:26 or something. But all through Corinthians 15, it's about the resurrection of Christ, and it talks about that. And there was one part that was kind of - it was kind of eerie reading it because it reminded me a lot of the scene where Harry was walking to the Forbidden Forest, and he saw his mother and father, and Remus all standing around him when he puts on the Resurrection Stone. Because it talked about how there would be one to be resurrected and all the apostles would see him and all this other stuff.
Laura: And you can definitely tell that J.K. Rowling was schooled very much in religion.
Elysa: That's a good call, Laura. That's a good call.
Micah: Well, that's what I thought of when I was re-reading it was - I thought specifically of the Deathly Hallows, and Harry being the Master of Death, and the fact that, you know, he has that whole scene at King's Cross. You know, I like was Elysa was saying just before about the Potters living on through Harry. In their own way, they defeated death by stepping in front of the curses that were meant for Harry, I guess. Lily more so than James, but even still, James died protecting his family. Harry sort of gives up at the end and knows that him sacrificing himself is supposedly for the greater good, and, you know, that kind of quote for me ties in with the Hallows and ties in with his actions at the end of the book.
This Scene in the Movie
Matt: Well, before we go to chapter seventeen, can we just like talk about this scene as a whole? As like, when they film it in the movie, like how beautiful it's going to be when you see Harry and Hermione holding each other looking at the parents' grave in the snow.
Andrew: Yeah, I was thinking about that and immediately I closed my eyes and could just picture the typical Emma Watson worried face.
Matt: But see, that's the thing I'm kind of nervous for. I think it would be a little better in the film if they don't actually go through the Polyjuice Potion. So you actually see Harry and Hermione holding each other at the gravesite, rather than what they look like through the Polyjuice Potion.
Eric: [laughs] What's it going to be - these two strange actors.
Matt: Yeah, exactly. It's supposed to be a touching moment.
Eric: Very sentimental, but yeah, you're right. I don't think - and the Polyjuice Potion. It's kind of what they're saying about Movie 6. There's all these precautions they take to make clear how unsafe the world is, but I think it's a better story to tell in a movie if they are not under the Polyjuice Potion at this exact moment. We questioned whether they would be in the Ministry scene.
Andrew: It's very - this is a very different - oh fuck, I was going to say something but I've lost my train of thought. It's just the perspective you have while reading - you see Harry and Hermione, but in a movie it's not nearly as effective. They're going to have to really do something about that. Because yeah, you're right. Like Matt and Eric, you were saying, seeing these two random people holding each other just won't make sense.
Micah: Reading this chapter - I mean, you kind of get and idea as to why Ron wasn't written into it, because I just can't see him being in this scene.
Matt: Yeah, I agree.
Andrew: Yeah. That's a good point. That's a really good point.
Elysa: I just - I was just wondering, I'm not sure if this was specified or if I'm remembering incorrectly, but who decided on that epitaph? "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death"? Do we know?
Laura: I don't think it was ever specified who chose it.
Matt: It's probably a - like, maybe a favor from Lily or James of the Deathly Hallows from Beetle and the Bard.
Eric: Well, I would rather venture and say that Dumbledore did that one too. I would like to think that.
Elysa: Well, here's what - yeah - here's what I was going to say, and I have no evidence in this whatsoever, but I was almost positive that I read somewhere - maybe in one of the interviews that J.K. Rowling did after the release - that Dumbledore had written that. And if so, that gives a whole new perspective to it. Because if Dumbledore wrote that, it would sort of almost be like, I suppose redemption in a way. That he was sort of - because he went through that whole phase of trying to obtain the Deathly Hallows and defeating death in a way that it can't be defeated. At least not - you know, so he wrote that sort of saying, "I've realized my mistake and, you know, where I made an error in judgment, and now I know. I've learned through Lily and James that the only way to destroy death is to face it and not to run from it."
Matt: Yeah, I like that a lot.
Laura: Very nicely put.
Elysa: [laughs] Thanks.
Laura is Fired
Andrew: Elysa, you're the girl. You're hired.
Andrew: You know, Laura, get off the show.
Matt: See you, Laura.
Elysa: Aw no. No.
Laura: Screw you!
Andrew: [laughs] I'm just kidding.
Micah: You can keep the P.O. Box.
Matt: Laura! Bye!
Andrew Gets a Love Letter
Laura: Speaking of the P.O. Box, Andrew, my mom told me that some girl sent you this very serious love letter.
Eric: She reads the letters?
Laura: Like intense...
Andrew: What is she doing opening my personal love letters?
Laura: No, she didn't, like, put a name on the envelope.
Andrew: I'm just playing.
Eric: She wanted it to be...
Laura: Okay, I was just telling you.
Eric: ...found by someone else.
Andrew: Aw, well I look forward to seeing it and being creeped out.
Andrew: Let's go to chapter seventeen. I'm just kidding, whoever said that.
Micah: Call Crime Stoppers.
Chapter 17, "Bathilda's Secret"
Andrew: I'm sure it's nice. We should move on to chapter seventeen now, Victoria's - I mean "Bathilda's Secret." Basically in this chapter, to sum up Eric's short summary: Hiss, hiss, bite, hiss, crunch, I can fly...
Andrew: ...hey cute picture, wait that's him, no.
Eric: That's the...
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: No, no! You totally destroyed that, Andrew. I write these summaries. I put all my heart into them and it...
Andrew: I know...
Laura: Half of it was hiss.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Andrew: I think it came off funny.
Eric: Can I read the short summary? [actually hisses] Bite! Hisss....crunch. My wand! Look at my wand! I can fly, I can fly, I can fly! Hey, cute picture. Wait, that's him. Nooooooo!!
Andrew: [laughs] Wow.
Laura: Oh my god.
Eric: That's the short summary.
Andrew: Elysa Montfort, the only one clapping for that.
Laura: That's because she's really polite.
Andrew: Thank you, Skype meters. And she's new, she has to suck up to everyone.
Laura: Yeah, she'll be meaner next time.
Elysa: Oh, right. [laughs]
Bathilda the Snake
Andrew: All right, so this chapter. I don't what to think about this chapter. I mean this is another - they should have seen this coming! Like, come on, she was so - while everyone was reading this for the first time, did you know that something was up with Bathilda?
Laura: Of course!
Laura: Of course.
Matt: Oh, obviously. It was obvious she was a snake!
[Andrew, Elysa, and Laura laugh]
Eric: It was absolutely obvious that a giant snake was possessing Bathilda's dead corpse and inhabiting the carcass and leading Harry alone so that she could bite him and break his - Yes.
Matt: Thank you, Eric. It was so obvious.
Eric: Matt, you and I are the only ones worthwhile - or worthy of reading these kinds of books.
Andrew: You know - well, okay - the only reason I can see someone thinking that, "Okay, there wasn't anything up with her," just 'cause they had heard at the wedding that she was just gaga. So...
Andrew: So I don't know. Obviously something was up to us because, you know, something was bound to happen. You know, every thirty pages there's like a new big scary Voldemort attack.
Matt: Yeah, it was - the whole mood was supposed to change anyway. So we were expecting a big change in the mood.
The Plaque Honoring Harry
Andrew: Yeah. So first off, in the beginning of this chapter, Harry feels excited because - he gets a little boost, a little inspiration boost because he sees this graffiti on this plaque honoring him.
Matt: I think that was just what he needed.
Matt: Because he's getting very skeptical of Hermione and Ron, and he was right that - I mean, they were kind of doubting him a little bit and so now he's been thinking this whole entire time that his best friends are doubting his ability, and are they really - I mean, they may be with him, but are they really, in a sense? And he reads these graffitis on the scene - on a sign saying how - what does it say on the sign?
Micah: Oh, it says, "Good luck, Harry, wherever you are. If you read this, Harry, we're all behind you. Long live Harry Potter."
Eric: Well, yeah, the house is still there. Most of the house is still there, in fact.
Andrew: Yeah, that's really cool, too, how there's like a little tribute. Well, I mean they...
Eric: Yeah, I liked that a lot.
Andrew: ...kept the house there as a tribute. Like, that's just amazing. I really cannot wait to see that in the movie because Harry even - well, the narration even points out that, you know, there was the blasted corner of the house, which is obviously where Voldemort killed his mother and tried to kill Harry.
Eric: And remember, we've seen this house, guys. In the movie when Hagrid - in the first movie when Hagrid is doing the recount. We see Voldemort go into there.
Recreating Harry's Parents' Death Scene
Eric: I thought that would be really cool if they reshoot those scenes, sort of, with the actors - try to recreate it. But then actually, you know, elaborate with all the things that happened - sorry - at the end of this chapter, which is fantastic.
Matt: Well see, that's what I had...
Matt: ...a question about, too. Because they said in the beginning when they did this movie - the first film - that J.K. Rowling oversaw this entire scene...
Eric: I think she directed that scene or something.
Matt: Do you honestly - oh, yeah I think she did direct it, too. Do you think that they may have actually filmed the entire scene and are saving it...
Eric: No, I highly doubt that.
Matt: ...for the last film?
Eric: If you think about it, the James and Lily actors are very happy to return. They've been in almost all the movies. In fact, they've been in all the movies. They really have.
Matt: But the baby! It doesn't look like that; he's probably a couple years older now.
Eric: Well, they could find another child.
Andrew: He's like ten years older now.
Eric: Well, you're right. You're right.
Andrew: That's kind of a good theory, Matt. I mean - because I don't think they would have to film much extra. Like - well - I don't know, it's hard to say because if you think about the movie scene in Sorcerer's Stone, it's not exactly how it is in the book.
Matt: No, it's not. But also, the actors are ten years older, almost, too. From when...
Matt: ...they filmed that scene.
Andrew: Although, Harry was standing in the crib and he had a little smile on his face in the movie, didn't he?
Matt: A little bit.
Laura: Yeah, he did.
Andrew: It's very similar.
Laura: He was wearing Blue's Clues pajamas, too.
Andrew: He was, yeah!
Matt: And they stressed it enough that she was very adamant about getting this scene right. She probably had this whole scene - you know, she had it all envisioned in her head. I still think they may have filmed this entire scene.
Eric: Well, I like the idea of that. It's just in the history of movies where - it seems like in my history of movies, my experience, when I think that it would be very cool if they did that, they never do that, which is the only thing I have against it.
Andrew: I mean, at the very least, they must have some extra footage lying around. They must have done some extra takes, maybe some extra angles or two. Maybe they could make a whole thing out of it.
Matt: You don't even see James' character in that flashback.
Andrew: Right, you don't. That's one issue.
Eric: So are we going to talk about Bathilda picking them up then?
Bathilda Knows Who Harry Is
Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point, Matt, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. That's a good question for Heymann or somebody. Okay, so Harry finds the photograph of Dumbledore and Grindelwald in Bathilda's house and - sorry, I'm reading from whoever wrote this. He's also convinced by looking in her eyes that she knows who he is. He's partly right.
Laura: Yeah, I was kind of - I don't know. Just reading that, it kind of creeped me out because...
Laura: ...Hermione said something along the lines of like, "Do think she knows who we are?" or whatever. And Harry looks into Bathilda's eyes and he's like, "Yeah, I think she does." And it's creepy because he's right but not quite, you know, because it's actually...
Laura: ...Voldemort's snake. And it's - oh my gosh, just gives me shivers...
Eric: There is a really cool - I like how this is written because - and again with the Horcrux that Harry is wearing, it gets excited. It starts really sort of beating, and Harry really starts noticing it...
Eric: And he's like, "Oh, I guess it's starting to be scared. That's good, it's scared that it's about to be destroyed." But you know that that's not actually quite what's happening, and it's really, just really an intense, sort of scary scene.
Laura: Yeah, it really is.
Matt: That whole scene is going to be so freaking awesome in the movie.
Laura: If they do it right. Like, do you really think they are actually going to have the snake crawl...
Eric: I think they will.
Laura: ...out of Bathilda's neck?
Matt: Oh, they better!
Laura: I would be so mad.
Eric: Why? Oh, if they didn't? I was like...
Matt: If it just like transfigures into a snake or something?
Elysa: Oh, that would be...
Eric: Well, they have got to have it.
Elysa: ...so terrible.
Laura: Yeah, and if they do something cheap like they've done in every movie where they show a shadow. But then like in Chamber of Secrets in order to lessen the gore factor they had a Fawkes pecking at the Basilisk's eyes...
Eric: Oh, but they didn't cut that out.
Laura: ...but they only show a shadow.
Andrew: Yeah, well, keep in mind that that was the PG days.
Eric: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
Matt: We're almost rated R, ladies and gentlemen.
Matt: We're all big boys now.
Eric: Well, the other thing, Laura, that I remember is - sorry, crap, I
just totally lost my - oh yeah! Well, no...
Matt: Well, about when Peter Pettigrew cut off his hand?
Eric: Oh, that's - did they show a shadow of that?
Matt: They showed it about - like, it just tipped off the arm.
Eric: Well, it made the squishy sound.
Laura: Yeah. It was pretty...
Eric: What I'm thinking of is - remember in Prisoner of Azkaban when Peter Pettigrew escapes the binds by turning into the rat and he does that thing where he disappears...
Eric: ...into his clothing and then the rat comes out.
Eric: Like, that's exactly the effect I'm looking for in the Bathilda's transformation scene. You know, it's...
Matt: But did - she doesn't really transform. The snake is hiding inside the body.
Eric: Oh no, she doesn't, she doesn't, but...
Laura: No, it comes out of her body.
Eric: In my notes, she pretty much discards the carcass like a coat - like discards the body like a coat. And it lets it drop to the floor as the snake sort of slithers out of it.
Micah: Like a snake would shed its skin.
Andrew: Yeah, I can see that.
Matt: Well, I kind of got - I thought about that when I was thinking of - what's the movie? Men in Black. When the creature took...
Laura: Oh, right!
Matt: ...out the insides of a body and all it really was was just like a layer of skin that stretched over the body.
Eric: It was like an egger suit. [laughs] Like an egger suit.
Andrew: Come to think of it though, this would really by a scary scene for kids.
Matt: I know!
The Potters' Death Through Voldemort's Eyes
Andrew: I mean, even if it is rated PG-13. Huh. I don't know, but let's stick with the book here; let's wrap this up. So as we were just discussing - I guess we could skip this too - when Harry sees his parents' death through Voldemort's point of view, which is really cool.
Eric. Whoa! Wait, we can't skip this, we can't skip this! This was incredible.
Andrew: Well, I'm saying we've already discussed a good part of it...
Eric: All right, yeah.
Andrew: ...movie-wise, but...
Eric: I'm shocked at how little I remembered how cool this actual part was when I was reading it the first time. Book 7, that is. Because it really is truly cool.
Elysa: Yeah, correct me...
Eric: Would do you guys think?
Elysa: Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first time that we find out that James Potter didn't even have his wand when Voldemort killed him?
Eric: None of them did.
Matt: He just falls.
Andrew: Didn't we discuss this on an earlier show?
Eric: Yeah, this has been said in the books that James was dueling Voldemort, or whatever. You know, went into the landings to sort of duel him, but now we see that it was even more pathetic than that for, you know, James and Lily Potter, who have thrice defied Voldemort, to just drop. Of course Lily didn't have to die but James just didn't even have his wand.
Eric: I don't know...
Matt: This is...
Eric: Yeah. Go on.
Matt: Well, just about the whole thing with Harry's mom and how he kind of pushed her away - like we all thought that there was like some ulterior motive that maybe like he was - he promised that he wouldn't kill Lily.
Eric: Well, he did, didn't he? Isn't that confirmed later? Yeah, Snape asked him not to.
Matt: Oh that's right. Okay. Nevermind.
Eric: But I'm going to go out on a limb here, and I'm just going to say my absolute favorite thing about this Voldemort recap is that right when he's about to kill Harry he thinks that baby Harry might, or Harry, or Voldemort thinks the baby Harry might be thinking that Voldemort is actually his dad in disguise, that any moment Lily's going to pop up and smile, and it's all a joke. But as Voldemort gets closer to Harry to kill him, he sees that it's not Voldemort and begins crying, and at that moment Voldemort thinks - I have it written down here - Voldemort thinks, well he says, "He did not like the crying..."
Andrew: Of the orphanage.
Eric: "...he had never been able to stomach the small ones crying in the orphanage." And this is like right when he's about to die - right when Voldemort's about to kill Harry and be killed himself. He has this flash - he connects the crying to the orphanage, and these crying babies in the orphanage. This is Voldemort's human life. Not only that, but his childhood. He makes this connection to his childhood and of all these - this crying that he couldn't stand in the orphanage - it sort of connects him to the human world once again. It's even acknowledged that he'd ever been in an orphanage - a Muggle one at that - and then that's - it struck me so much. You can clearly tell by the way my voice doing this, that it struck me that that kind of connection to, you know, Voldemort's - because Voldemort's not connected to anything, and - but right before he dies, he makes that kind of, you know, "I hated the little ones, the orphans..."
Matt: Well, when I first...
Elysa: Well, it's totally true...
Eric: And then he dies.
Matt: Well, when I read that, when he said that he couldn't stomach the babies crying at the orphanage, I - I could be wrong, but I thought when he said that he meant that he went on a murderous rampage in the orphanage, and it was just hard....
Eric: Well, he was about to kill a trick-or-treater. Do you remember that?
Laura: Yeah. He said like one quick wave of his wand and the little boy would never see his mother again, or something like that.
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
Eric: "But quite unnecessary..."
Matt: But he'd just love the power of that...
Eric: "...quite unnecessary."
Matt: I think he was thinking to himself. Like, "I could just kill this kid right now," and that entire life is gone.
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