MuggleCast | The #1 Most-Listened to Harry Potter Podcast

MuggleCast 141 Transcript

Show Intro

[Intro music begins]

Andrew: Hey, Mason, I really need a good gift for my generic loved one. Any ideas?

Mason: Oh yeah, Andrew. I have the gift they need. If you sign up for GoDaddy's economy blogcast package you'll receive one gig of disk space, 100 gigs bandwidth, recording tools, and much more!

Andrew: Whoa! With all those features, I guess that kind of package will run me at least $20 a month and be plastered with ads.

Mason: You're wrong, Andrew. The blogcast economy package is just $4.49 a month for 12 months!

Andrew: That's a deal! And a perfect way to get your own website, blog, or podcast started.

Mason: Oh, yeah! That is a deal! Plus enter code MUGGLE when you check out. Save an additional 10% on any order. Get your piece of the Internet at

[Music ends] Audio: And remember, the Relay for Life is this Friday. If you'd like to make any last minute donations to the American Cancer Society, visit the MuggleCast website and click the link. Thanks.

[Harry Potter theme plays]

Jim Dale: [as Professor McGonagall] "This is Professor McGonagall welcoming you all to MuggleCast hoping you enjoyed - Dobby! Dobby, come here! Here! Dobby!" [as Dobby] "Yes, I'd just like to say how very pleased I am to introduce MuggleCast to all of you! Thank you! Thank you!"

[Show music begins]

Micah: Because we're taking a trip back to Episode 35, this is MuggleCast Episode 141 for April 14, 2008.

[Show music continues]

Andrew: Guys, do you like treasure?

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: I love treasure. I actually got some treasure mailed to my house today.

Laura: Cool, wow, really?

Matt: Cool. Well, how come you get all the stuff sent to you?

Andrew: Because I'm the host.

Laura: Yeah, Matt. That's kind of an unfair standard, isn't it?

Andrew: Well, it's also...

Matt: It is kind of.

Andrew: Wait, wait, wait. Laura gets all the stuff mailed to the P.O. Box, so...

Matt: Yeah, but she has to send it all to you because everything apparently is under your name.

Andrew: Um, sorry.

Laura: Yeah, that is true.

Andrew: Sorry, guys. Sorry I'm that awesome. But anyway, HP Fan Trips sent me this big box because it has some, you know - if you've been checking MuggleNet - HP Fan Trips in association with Alivan's is doing the HP Quest, and people involved in the HP Quest are coming to MuggleNet today looking for the next clue and I have the clue in this treasure box! Can you hear it?

[Andrew shakes box and a rustling noise is heard]

Andrew: Can you hear my treasure box?

[Andrew keeps shaking the box]

Laura: Clearly.

Andrew: Okay.

Matt: Uh-huh.

Eric: So what are you doing with it, Andrew?

Andrew: I was...

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: ...petting it. It was shaking it, I don't know. That's magic.

Eric: It's got nargles in it.

Andrew: We're going to try to figure out the riddle in this treasure box, and we got a lot coming up on the show today. We have a big show. So let's get right into it. I'm Andrew Sims.

Eric: I'm Eric Scull.

Laura: I'm Laura Thompson.

Micah: I'm Micah Tannenbaum.

Matt: And I'm - I'm - I'm Matthew Britton.

[Show music continues]

News: Equus on Broadway

Andrew: Big news week, buddy?

Micah: Overall, not really. It's been pretty quiet.

Andrew: I don't know, man. I like the news this week. I always get worried that we're not going to enough news to talk about for the show, but then we always have a few things. First and foremost Dan Radcliffe coming to Broadway with Equus. We already knew this, but the dates are now confirmed.

Andrew: September 5 is when previews start and, Micah, you told me you're going to be first in line?

Micah: Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Micah: You can bet that I will be not the first person online to go and get a ticket to get to this.

Andrew: No, but seriously, will you go?

Micah: I don't know.

Andrew: You're in the New York City area.

Micah: I don't know. I might go if we get a group together.

Eric: Micah, there's goats. Oh, no that's horses. Never mind, sorry.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Matt: Well, Andrew, you're the only one out of our group who's actually seen the play.

Andrew: Yeah, and would I see it again? Is that what you were going to ask?

Matt: Yeah, I was going to until you cut me off.

Andrew: [laughs] Well, okay. I'm going to be in California by that time, but yeah, I would see it again. It's a good play. It's a good play and not just for the obvious reasons, but it's a good play.

[Matt laughs]

Micah: What are the obvious reasons?

Eric: What are those obvious reasons, Andrew?

Andrew: Well, I mean Dan's naked. Who doesn't want to see Dan's naked - Dan being naked? I'm just kidding.

Laura: Sure you are.

Andrew: Laura, will you go see it?

Laura: Yeah!

Andrew: Since you'll be in Baltimore?

Laura: Oh yeah. I think I'll definitely go see it. I mean who wants to turn down a trip to New York City, anyway? So use it as an excuse to go up there and hang out with some cool Potter people.

Matt: Yeah, of course.

Andrew: I'm just a little concerned, still, about this, because I feel like the American fan girls are going to take it out of control. I feel like the audiences are going to be filled half-way up with these Dan Radcliffe fangirls...

Matt: Yeah.

Andrew: ...that are just going to scream at the sight of him naked. I hate to bring up the whole naked thing again, but I just think it's going to be a problem.

Matt: Well, Dan's even said in a recent interview on the Half-Blood Prince set - he said that the English audience, the fan base is a lot different than the American fan base.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: Because the Americans are more louder and more in-your-face...

Andrew: Right.

Matt: ...with how much they're...

Eric: Do you want to say less mature?

Matt: Well, I don't want to say less mature, because they're really not. They just tend to be a little more, I guess, extreme.

Eric: Okay.

Matt: Is that a better, fair opinion?

Eric: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. It reminds me of that Billy Joel song. [sings] "I go to extremes." You know?

Matt: Mhm.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, I don't know.

Matt: I agree with you, Andrew. I think that maybe - well, does our country really have the same type of interest in theater as in, we'll say, the U.K. interest?

Andrew: I think there's more interest in the U.S. I mean Broadway's huge.

Laura: Yeah. Huge.

Eric: Yeah. There's more interest in the U.S. I think it depends on what type of play it is - you know, Equus - but I think it will catch. I think it will be very, very popular, not just because of Dan and Richard Griffiths. I think it will be...

Matt: Well, it's going to be on a bigger scale, too. They're doing it on Broadway. Andrew, when you saw it, was it on a smaller scale, or was it also in a huge theater?

Andrew: I think it's going to be the same size theater. I - probably would have been a good thing to look into, but it was in the Broadway's - or, sorry...

Eric: The West End.

Andrew: ...London's West End, right.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Which is the equivalent to New York City's Broadway.

Eric: It is. It is pretty much the equivalent. It's not - if Equus was coming sort of off-Broadway, that sort of thing, you know, that would be really weird.

Andrew: Then it would be smaller.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Definitely. Dan Radcliffe probably wouldn't...

Eric: But it would definitely be on Broadway. Yeah.

Andrew: The other thing is, this starts in September, and it's running for twenty-two weeks until February, so the other question is, how will this affect Dan's Half-Blood Prince promotions, you know?

Eric: Because that runs right over the premiere, doesn't it?

Andrew: Yes.

Laura: Yeah, it does.

Andrew: The premiere's in November, the movie release is in November.

Laura: Well, I have a feeling they'll probably take some sort of break around the holidays anyhow.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: It wouldn't make sense if they were running shows right up to the premiere. I'm sure that part of his contract is that he's going to need time off around November whatever-it-is when the movie comes out so that he'll have adequate time to promote it, go to the premiere, and meet all of his screaming fans. I guess he's going to get a double dose of that this fall.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah. Well, I'm sure they discussed this when he did - when they described the - negotiated contracts and stuff.

Eric: I'm sure it's already figured out. All the dates of every event that he's going to need to be at, every day he's going to miss. Didn't you say, I mean, they do have understudies and things, so I think the show itself might keep running, and it just might be the sort of thing where for one or two performances overnight one night Dan's in London or something, you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Promoting the film.

News: A Chance to Read Beedle the Bard

Andrew: Yeah, you're probably right. Anyway, moving on to other news, Amazon is offering a chance for you to read Beedle the Bard. They're giving away one lucky opportunity for someone - they'll pay for someone's trip out to London and have like a two-night stay right there in London, and then you get a chance to read the book.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Is this cool or what?

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Is anyone going to try entering?

Eric: Yeah, absolutely.

Matt: Yeah, why not?

Eric: I want to. I had something to say. I wanted to tell the listeners that they'll have me to compete with. My one hundred word submission is going to be submitted soon, and the listeners out there will be competing with me for this wonderful opportunity. I am going to enter, and everyone else, I will see you in London.

Matt: So basically, you guys have a pretty good chance of winning.

Andrew: Yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Because my writing skills are not near as good as my speaking skills.

Andrew: Right.

[Matt and Laura laugh]

Andrew: So the contest is running from now until - jeez, when does it end, Eric? You're looking at the rules. April 22.

Eric: Okay. Yes, the day before my birthday.

Andrew: Woo!

Eric: My twentieth birthday. I'm not going to be a teenager anymore.

Micah: Deal with it.

[Everyone laughs]

News: Stephenie Meyer talks Harry Potter

Andrew: And lastly, one final thing we're going to talk about today - a couple people might complain, but who cares? - Twilight author Stephenie Meyers talked about Harry Potter recently in an interview with MTV, and - I love her for this, I love her for this quote - she - the interviewer asked her, "So do you compare it to Harry Potter?" She says, "The interesting thing about the comparison is that I think you can compare my fans to her fans more easily than me to her. I do think that we both have people who are just really, really enthusiastic, and will come miles to see you and be involved, and everyone - everybody really cares about our characters. But the Harry Potter and Twilight stories are just so different." That is so true!

Laura: It really is.

Matt: It really is, yeah.

Andrew: The stories are different, yes, the fans are the same because they're the same exact people. I mean...

[Laura and Matt laugh]

Laura: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew: Yeah, and I'm almost surprised she didn't - I would think she knows that. I mean she must know that. But it's really interesting.

Matt: She owes - she does owe a lot of her fan base to the Harry Potter series.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Do you think - do you think she owes it, though, or what? Like, how's that, how's that work? Do you think there are Twilight fans that are...

Matt: Well, I don't think she owes, but...

Eric: ...Harry Potter fans?

Matt: ...she must know that a good portion of her audience is, you know, from the Harry Potter fan-base.

Andrew: And are reading because of Harry Potter...

Matt: Exactly.

Andrew: begin with, and...

Eric: Well, yeah.

Andrew: ...looking for new fantasy novels after Harry Potter, so...

Eric: That's true, I think a lot of authors these days would probably have to credit J.K.R. with just the amount of readers they have.

Andrew: Mhm. And so yeah. Just a great interview with - great little interview with Stephenie. Thought I'd bring that up. I got excited because it's an opportunity for me to post my set report from the Twilight set on

Eric: Yeah, I saw you plug that.

Andrew: Of course.

Eric: That was - that was pretty cool.

Andrew: I was waiting for the opportunity, and boom, there it is. There it is. So let's move into some announcements now before we get into MuggleMail.

Eric: Andrew, quick!

Andrew: What?

Eric: There was just something that Spanish - the Mexican girl who got to go see the set.

Andrew: Oh yeah.

Eric: Did you want to mention that? Because that's news. That's...

Andrew: Yeah, but I didn't know if there was anything worth discussing in there.

Eric: Oh.

Matt: Not really.

Eric: Well, she talked about The Burrow and stuff that, you know, that I didn't know that was going to be in the movie at all, but - we don't have to mention that.

Announcement: No Spring Break Tour

Andrew: First announcement we have today; regrettably we're going to call off the spring break tour idea because right now we have to save money for the summer, and also we just can't get two good venues down, and in a short enough amount of time and - there - you know, there's finals coming up and stuff like that. So it was just really hard to schedule. We shouldn't have brought it up to people, but, you know, just so you guys know we were trying. You know, we'll always keep working on stuff, but sorry, everyone.

Matt: Yeah. We didn't really intend for it to be as difficult as it was.

Eric: We tried all the bookstores and everything and there was a bit of a negotiation error there, but it wasn't our fault.

Andrew: Right.

Matt: It's just - it's just a slow time to actually get a gig anywhere, especially in our fan base at the moment.

Andrew Found a Clue!

Andrew: Right. So guys, before we get to the other announcements I want to talk about this HP Quest thing. Now, like I said, the treasure - treasure box came in just today, and I took some time opening it up, and it came with this little note, and I want you guys to play along with me, because we have to help people get the riddle for the next clue. So it came with this note. It said, "Thanks so much for having MuggleNet participate in the HP Quest. Here is your clue to use on your podcast Thursday. The box contains a book. The book contains a clue. To get in the box, you must read the Tribune and figure out what key will work." So there's this little Tribune newsletter, and it has this whole thing - I'm not going to read the whole thing, but - this little paragraph that you guys - now, I already figured it out and opened it up, but I want you guys to see if you can figure out the riddle. It says - this is the hint about which key to use to open up the treasure chest. I got - I got, like seven keys and I had to figure out which one to use. It said, "All I can say is that the key that fits this lock features a perfect number, which is to say that the number of letters is takes to spell this number are exactly the same as the number itself." So if I got keys one through seven, which key would I use?

Eric: Four.

Andrew: Four. Yes. [laughs]

Laura: Hm. [laughs] Yeah.

Matt: Yeah.

Andrew: They made it easy for me, because they were like, "We know you're busy!" So - okay I opened it up, and in here is this box - and this is completely by coincidence, they don't know we have this little running thing with Lucky Charms because of Jamie's love for Lucky Charms - Anyway, the box - the book is called Magical Charms 101. I opened it up - it says here, "I am sending you some Lucky Charms as well as another favorite cereal of mine. Always remember to think inside the box. Happy Questing, Wilson." Which is one of the wizards involved with this quest. [rustling sound] So I'm opening it up, here. I'll put a picture on the And in here is a little Cocoa Krispies box surrounded by a ton of Lucky Charms. I'm just going to eat some now.

Eric: What does it all mean? [laughs]

Andrew: [eating cereal] I don't know what it all means! You guys got to help me!

Eric: Help you eat it? [laughs]

Andrew: Well, if you were here - these are good actually. So this is a riddle for the next quest, and this is an online quest where people have to look online, so - Oh my gosh! Wait. I found another clue! I found another clue!

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: This is like "Blue's Clues." Hold on.

Laura: Oh, Jesus.

Andrew: I can't even open it.

Eric: Know what you need? Andrew, now you need your handy dandy notebook.

Andrew: I'm going to do this. I'm doing this quick. Oh, wait, I got it. I got it, guys. I may - okay, so here's your next clue inside the Cocoa Kripsies box. "I am made from life, but I am flat as the blade of a knife. I'm used by leaders. I am lobed...? - loved by readers. I can cause and end wars, and I can easily be yours. What am I?" Sorry, it's hard to read because of the font. I'll read it one more time and then everyone playing can figure it out, then we'll move on. "I am made from life, but I am flat as the blade of a knife. I'm used by leaders, and I'm loved by readers. I can cause and end wars, and I can easily be yours. What am I?" A bookmark?

Matt: I was going to say a bookmark, but...

Eric: Huh.

Laura: Hmm.

Andrew: I don't know. Something. Anyway, we'll post the riddle on if you're involved in the HP Quest, and for more information just go to, and they have a link right there to the HP Quest. So that was awesome. That was cool. Now I've got this treasure box, and a wand, and a little Hogwarts thing.

Eric: That's HP Fan Trips that's doing this HP Quest, sounds really cool.

Andrew: Yeah, they're doing a great job...

Eric: They're really into it, and it's really good stuff.

Andrew: Yeah. Very fun stuff. So, hey, Matt, do you have an update on the MuggleCast create your own segment contest?

Matt: Yeah, we're doing really good. We've actually gotten a few entries already.

Andrew: Oh, cool. Okay, and you can go onto to get more information about it. Don't forget it's sponsored by Alivan's who are creators of some great Harry Potter products, and of course they're also sponsoring this HP Fan Trips HP Quest. They make a lot of cool stuff. Wands - I think this treasure chest came from them too, but the wand definitely came from them, so again visit for our contest link. Right?

Matt: Yeah!

Transcript Update

Andrew: [laughs] Micah, do you have an update about the transcripts?

Micah: Sure, man. Things are going well. They're actually done with, so thanks, everybody, who sent in applications. I know by the end of - Margaret who was nice enough to go through all those applications, there were over hundred, so people responded really quickly to - I don't know if I'd call it a contest, right? It's just more of a...

Eric: Well, a request.

Micah: application that was put out there. A request, yeah. So Margaret went through all of them, she hired ten people, and we're all set to go. So thanks to everybody who sent it in. And you never know when down the line we're going to be looking for more people, so just keep your ears open and thanks to Margaret for doing a great job.

Andrew: Cool. Yeah, Margaret's been doing a great job, and thanks to all the MuggleCast transcribers for tirelessly transcribing the show week to week.

Announcement: MuggleCast Live

Andrew: And one final announcement, and then we'll move into MuggleMail. Just want to say that the next live show, MuggleCast Live, live on the Internet, will be with the release of the teaser trailer, and, Matt, when is that supposed to be coming out?

Matt: They say it's supposed to come out on the premiere of Warner Brother's new film, Speed Racer.

Andrew: So presumably it'll play at the beginning.

Matt: Presumably, yeah. It'll probably be leaked online by that time anyway.

Andrew: And usually it's released online first if not immediately after.

Matt: And that movie's supposed to be released on May 9, I think it is.

Andrew: Right, so if we do get to see the teaser trailer on May 9, hopefully online so then everybody doesn't have to go see Speed Racer. I'm going to go see it because John Goodman's in it. He's the man.

Eric: So is Matthew Fox.

Andrew: Yeah, so...

Matt: So is Susan Sarandon. So is the Wachowski brothers too.

Andrew: So mark your calendars, May 9, MuggleCast Live. If not May 9, May 10. Basically whenever the teaser trailer comes out, and we assume it'll be May 9. That's our best bet right now. So let's move onto Muggle Mail.

Muggle Mail: James Joyce

Eric: This is from Amanda, age 22, of Redbank, New Jersey. Subject is James Joyce.

"In Episode 140, during the discussion of James Joyce's "Finnegan's Wake," Eric referred to Joyce as a Briton. Just thought that you guys should know that Joyce is not a British author, but an Irish one. And although he spent most of his life - uh, his adult life - as an ex-patriot his books are firmly rooted in Ireland, Dublin especially. Also, "Finnegan's Wake" was Joyce's fourth major work published in 1939, not his second. Just wanted to make sure that people get the correct information about a very important author because I think it's very important to recognize the huge impact that Irish authors have had on literature. Have a great week, guys."

Thank you, Amanda, for this, because I didn't know that, and thank you very much for clarifying.

Andrew: You should always Wikipedia what you are going to talk about before you talk about it.

Eric: Yeah.

Matt: Yes, you do. Wikipedia is like - well, Wikipedia is a nice source, but it's not really one hundred percent accurate either.

Eric: All the same, Amanda wrote in. She said she wants to really demonstrate the impact that Irish authors have had. I really respect that. I think that's cool.

Muggle Mail: "Stairway to Heaven" in Harry Potter

Micah: Next e-mail comes from Lance, 16, of Florida. He said: "After 'Deathly Hallows: Part II' is released it just might be the most epic thing ever if one of you guys, or someone you hire or assign, should take the final battle or some type of battle of Hogwarts montage and mix it with 'Stairway to Heaven'..."

Andrew: Oh, yeah!

Micah: " suggested by Make the Music Connection in Episode 140, and upload it to YouTube. I hope you guys take the suggestion to heart, and if you do, I look forward to seeing it, though I know I'll have to wait a few years. At the very least please take a moment on the show to mention this to give other fans ideas if you don't feel like doing it yourself. Love the show, and keep up the good work."

That's actually a pretty cool idea, and I'm sure somebody, if not one of us, will go ahead and do it.

Andrew: I'll make it. I don't care.

Matt: Are you sure?

Andrew: I love that. [laughs] I love putting stuff to music.

Eric: I mean it was a great idea. I mean I love all those things on YouTube where they, you know, edit movies into montages with songs and stuff.

Andrew: Yeah. Right.

Eric: It's all done good. I'm sure somebody'll do it, I mean, especially if we make it into like a listener challenge maybe?

Andrew: Maybe, but I don't know if it should. I don't know if the show's going to be around with listener challenges at that point.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Or YouTube, for that matter, but I'm sure there will be something around.

Andrew: Oh, YouTube will be around. Come on.

Eric: YouTube's going down.

Muggle Mail: Release Date of Deathly Hallows

Andrew: The next e-mail comes from Dominique, 15, of Florida. She writes:

"Hey MuggleCasters. I was thinking back over older MuggleCast episodes when I remembered that there was a somewhat heated debate over whether the 'Deathly Hallows' release date was too soon or not. Some of you said that you thought that a 2007 release was great, and others thought it was too soon and wanted a 2008 release. I just wanted to know whether or not now, since we've read the final book, you think that you would have preferred the book to be out in 2008, or do you feel that Jo wrote the book to your satisfaction and needed no more writing? Thanks. Love the show."

First, I want to say that if - gosh - if the book hadn't come out over this summer, I don't know what we'd be talking about right now.

[Eric laughs]

Laura: Oh I know. It would've been awful!

Andrew: How much more could we talk about Half Blood Prince? Everyone: Yeah.

Eric: That is a fair question. I can't imagine the sort of summer 2007 if Dealthy Hallows hadn't happened. I mean we would've had Movie 5 and all, but if it weren't for Book 7 coming out then, I really don't know. It's so hard to think of it now that it is a past event, what would it have been like if the book hadn't been released then. So...

Laura: Yeah. And I will completely step up to the plate and say that I was one of those nay-sayers who originally was like, "Oh no, the book won't come out in 2007. It has to come out in 2008." Just because when we'd been to the readings at Carnegie Hall. Or no, not Carnegie Hall. I'm getting my readings mixed up. Radio City, yeah! When we were there, she said that she had just started or she wasn't very far into it. Either that or some kind of article had just come out saying that she was halfway through, and she debunked it, and I was just like, "Okay, if she is not even halfway through, there's no way we are looking at a release for next summer." But I was wrong, and I was really satisfied with the book.

Micah: I was somebody who thought that it was going to be released later on in the year. I thought that were were going to see a November type release or, what was it, October? October 31st, I think, was my big prediction. But...

Andrew: You had a really good theory about that too.

Micah: Yeah, but what ended up happening, I think, was probably for the best, because all the books were released more or less in the summer time, anyway, so it kind of kept with the tradition, and I don't think the summer would've been quite as good as it was if you didn't have both the movie and the book being released around the same time.

Laura: It really was the perfect summer. We had so much fun.

Andrew: At the same time, thought, I mean, 2008 is going to be a boring summer in terms of Harry Potter. [laughs]

Eric: We've got two Harry Potter conferences, and - oh right, the movie only comes out in November.

Muggle Mail: Elder Wand

Laura: Our last e-mail comes from Dylan, 34, of Montana. He says:

"I was just listening to Episode 140, where you were discussing the transfer of the Elder Wand's allegiance from Dumbledore to Draco to Harry. First, I don't think you were clear about the value of the Elder Wand's allegiance, which is that it makes the Wand much more powerful and effective. The best example of this is that it acts for Voldemort like any other wand with no special abilities, but Harry is able to use it to fix his wand, which everybody thought was impossible. Secondly, you seemed to think that Dumbledore planned to have Draco disarm him so that the master of the Elder Wand would not go to Snape who was vulnerable to Voldemort. This seems silly to me for two reasons. For one thing, at this point Voldemort is planning to have Draco die as a punishment for Lucius failing to get the prophecy at the Ministry. There was a much bigger chance that Voldemort would kill Draco than he would kill Snape. But more importantly, Dumbledore admitted at King's Cross that his real plan was to die undefeated so that the Elder Wand's allegiance would never transfer from him, making its dangerous power unreachable. Harry says something like, 'But that part didn't work out like you wanted,' and Dumbledore agrees. Although it is not clear at the time, Harry is referring to Draco's disarming Dumbledore and unknowingly gaining the Elder Wand's allegiance. I think that Dumbledore, injured and drained from his experience at the lake, had to use all his power to keep Harry safe and couldn't simultaneously stop Draco from disarming him."

Matt: Well, it just goes to show that not every single thing that happens happened as planned. Not everything was planned out.

Eric: Even for Dumbledore.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Which is - which is really a good sort of - a good thing to bring up.

Micah: This was the point that I made last week, saying that I thought Dumbledore - maybe, clearly didn't plan it out this way, but once he got to the point where he was on the top of the tower, it was almost as if he knew that it was over. And so it may have sort of been a plan that he had in his mind at that point in time because - I mean, the points that Dylan brings up are good points. It disproves what I was saying last week based on the fact that Dumbledore wanted to die without having the Wand's allegiance transfer to another person. He wanted to die undefeated, which makes perfect sense because then the Wand could never be used again.

Matt: Okay, Dumbledore's initial plan was that he wasn't defeated, but once Draco came and disarmed him, he then knew that - that the Elder Wand was Draco's, right? Is that what - is that what he was trying to say? Dylan?

Micah: What he's trying to say is that my point last week that Dumbledore planned out this whole thing, that it would be better for Draco to have the power transferred to him as opposed to letting Snape come and killing him is complete B.S., because Dumbledore wanted to die without the Wand transferring power to anybody else, based on his statement that he made in King's Cross, but...

Matt: Yeah, but...

Micah: ...he may have not planned it that way, but once he got into that situation and he knew that he was going to die, I just - to me, it would be something that Dumbledore would've thought through. "Hey, wouldn't it be far better to have Draco have this power unbeknownst to him as opposed to somebody like Snape who is extremely vulnerable to Voldemort?" And I understand the point that Draco was probably going to be killed by Voldemort anyway because he didn't think that he could approach Dumbledore and be successful, so it's just a really weird situation. That's all I'm going to say.

Matt: Yeah. Do you think he realized, though, that Draco had the Elder Wand as soon as he disarmed him?

Andrew: Probably. I mean...

Laura: Yeah, I mean...

Andrew: would seem stupid for Dumbledore not to know.

Micah: Well, yeah, I mean, the allegiance itself would have been transferred, right? I mean...

Matt: Yeah, at that point...

Andrew: Oh, that's true, yeah.

Matt: ...the allegiance to the Elder Wand was now Draco's.

Micah: Yeah, my point last week is that he wouldn't possibly want Snape to have that allegiance carried with him because Snape was going to kill him no matter what. That was the plan. And so he wouldn't want that to be given to Snape because Snape was such an easy target, as we saw, for Voldemort to take that supposed allegiance from him like he does when they're in the Shrieking Shack. He - I mean, Dumbledore's a smart guy and it goes back to the whole tower thing we were talking about last week. If he wanted to get out of that situation, he probably could have. There - he's far more powerful, even in a weakened state...

Andrew: Of course he could!

Matt: Oh, yeah!

Micah: ...than any of those guys that are up on that tower with the exception of Snape. So...

Eric: Right, but Dumbledore does admit to Harry in the end at King's Cross that he hadn't originally planned for Draco to steal the Wand.

Micah: Right. He didn't originally plan it, but that's what ended up happening, and it ended up working out for the best.

Eric: Okay, yeah.

Micah: In the end.

Eric: You're saying that with hindsight that it would be better for Snape not to have the allegiance, which is what ended up getting him killed anyway. Right? Yeah.

Micah: Exactly. Because then the power would have transferred over to Voldemort, you'd have a huge...

Eric: It's certainly very fortunate.

Micah: ...problem on your hands. And Dylan brings up good points. That was just a theory that I threw out there last week.

Andrew: Okay. Well, I'm glad we cleared it up a little more. Or you did.

Micah: I tried.

Chapter-by-Chapter: Chapter 26, "Gringotts"

Andrew: All right, so let's get right into Chapter-by-Chapter this week.

Matt: Sweet.

Andrew: As we do every week. This week we're going to talk about Chapter 26, "Gringott's." Lots of interesting stuff going on here.

Eric: Good stuff. Fast-paced chapter.

Andrew: Definitely an interesting chapter for the movie. A lot of work on...

Micah: CGI, right?

Andrew: Yes, exactly. I was just going to say the designers are going to have a hell of a time coming up with some of this stuff.

Eric: This was one of the chapters that, while reading it, it was just one of those things where you want to see in the movie. I mean, don't you think that Helena Bonham Carter is going to have fun doing all this - playing Hermione and all that? With the trio? I think it's going to be...

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Mhm.

Eric: Okay! Plot summary for chapter twenty-six, "Gringotts" is: The trio and Griphook leave Shell Cottage and go to Diagon Alley where they break into Gringotts with Hermione disguised as Bellatrix Lestrange. Amid much suspicion they make their way down to Bellatrix's vault and, once inside it, encounter many problems as the goblins have been alerted to their presence. Rushing as fast as they can to find the Horcrux in the vault, they succeed and escape at lightning speed on the back of a dragon, formerly tethered underneath London in Gringotts' fiery depths.

Hermione Plays Bellatrix

Andrew: So, as Eric just said, the plan is to break into Gringotts with Hermione posing as Bellatrix under the Polyjuice Potion. Hermione's complaining about having to carry Bellatrix's wand, and this is just another part of the book where, like I've said before, there's a little reflection on the past seven books, and in this case it was - not exactly in the books, but it was Bellatrix's wand having killed Neville's parents and then having also killed Sirius, so...

Matt: It was a good moment for Harry to keep to himself, too, because it would have blown up in his face had he said something about that.

Eric: Yeah. This was something I hadn't thought about until J.K. Rowling mentioned it - that Bellatrix's wand is the exact wand that tortured the Longbottoms. You know...

Andrew: It must be hard to hold and, you know, like Harry said, he wanted to snap it.

Eric: Yeah. That was really good. It also talked a little bit about wand allegiance again, because Hermione said, "This wand doesn't really work for me," and Harry was tempted to remind her about the blackthorn wand, which she would always tell him, "Well, just practice, Harry, just practice," and Harry was all, "No! It's not the same! Ugh!"

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: And he thought she was finally understanding but he held it back. He kept it to himself and, overall, that was just kind of - next thing they know, Bellatrix Lestrange is walking across the lawn. That freaked me out. I mean, did that freak you guys out at all? That hit me just like the Longbottom wand thing. It was just - we knew that she was going to...

Andrew: I think it would freak me out when you actually see it in the movie.

Laura: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah.

Andrew: Like the book, it's like sort of coming in expected, but yeah, the movie - that's going to be creepy as hell.

Eric: Yeah. Even if they mention it - which they do in the book. They're like, "Oh, Polyjuice. Going to go as Bellatrix Lestrange..." - but just to say that Bellatrix is walking across the lawn is like really kind of creepy. She doesn't belong there. Shell Cottage is peaceful, Dobby's grave is weathering nicely. It's all serene, and Bellatrix comes out.

Andrew: Yeah, it's very contrasting.

Matt: Well, I'm just excited to see Helena Bonham Carter just look like Hermione, sort of. You know, with the little like surprised expression - moving her eyebrows every two seconds.

Eric: Yeah, exactly. Bellatrix...

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Helena is going to have a heck of a fun time doing that, I think.

Andrew: Emma's going to have to give Helena some...

Matt: Pointers.

Andrew: ...lessons, yeah. "Here's how I act in every single scene of every single Potter film."

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: "Just do it the same way I do. Just watch..."

Eric: Do you really think it's that easy, Andrew? That she acts the same way in all the Harry Potter scenes?

Andrew: Yeah! I think it is pretty easy. She acts the same way...

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: ...and it's annoying! But anyway, Harry talks about missing Sea Cottage, the peacefulness of the beautiful sea.

Matt: Yeah, or even just the safetyness, you know, of living in a cottage, you know, with such hospitality for that long.

Eric: I feel kind of bad for Bill at this moment, you know, because he kind of knows what they're doing, but Bill and Fleur have just totally put these guys up, and they're not allowed to tell anybody about the quest and that - you know why, but it just kind of - it's one of those things that you really appreciate. You're like, "Thanks, Bill," you know, "I really appreciate this, Bill."

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Sort of things.

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