MuggleCast | The #1 Most-Listened to Harry Potter Podcast

MuggleCast 141 Transcript (continued)

Pacing of Movie 7

Laura: Yeah. You know what I wonder just from reading this chapter, is how they're going to pace the seventh movie, just because, towards the beginning of it, it states that they've been at Shell Cottage for several weeks.

Andrew: That's definitely going to be cut, don't you think?

Laura: Yeah. Oh, I'm sure, but they have to illustrate that this is a long going journey and they're spending weeks wandering around the countryside pitching a tent, and then they stay at Bill and Fleur's for quite a long time, too. They can't just have them go there for five minutes, you know? It wouldn't make sense.

Andrew: So maybe it would be another classic David Yates montage.

Laura: Yeah!

Matt: Well, it could probably also just be like a long fade transition. You know, kind of like, instead of just a cut from like the morning, it kind of just goes slowly into a black fade and then fades back into the next scene.

Eric: Yeah. Well, I mean, that's the thing about these movie technique guys. They're so good at that. Like, I mean, if you remember, even back in Movie 1, you know, transferring from winter to spring...

Andrew: I was actually just going to say that, yeah.

Eric: really well done...

Laura: Yeah, that was actually really well done.

Eric: ...and it was sort of - I mean, even that just, you know, I mean, I have full confidence because they've sort of had to work with a lot of these time variations in the Harry Potter books because different things happen at different stages throughout the year, you know.

Andrew: Didn't - in Prisoner of Azkaban, don't like all of the leaves fall off of the Whomping Willow all of a sudden?

Eric: Yeah, they grow back.

Matt: I think Prisoner of Azkaban did the best of the transitions, definitely.

Laura: Yeah, I - oh my god. I love Alfonso Cuaron.

Eric: There were some good ones, especially with the Whomping Willow. That was really sort of a key - that was really well spotted, I think, in that movie to use the Whomping Willow.

Helena Bonham Carter

Andrew: Now, Matt, you brought up something that I hadn't remembered actually. A little quote from Helena.

Matt: During last summer Helena Bonham Carter was interviewed about how she got approached for the role, and she said she was kind of hesitant with playing the role of Bellatrix Lestrange, because it was a relatively small role. But I guess later on she said that J.K. Rowling messaged her telling her that she actually has a bigger role in Book 7 and that Movie 5 was just - how did she say it - was, "a bite of a carrot."

Eric: A bite of a carrot compared to the real...

Matt: Yeah exactly, to the entire thing. So, do you think that this is one of those scenes where - this and I think the Battle at Hogwarts is the two big scenes that is in this for Bellatrix Lestrange.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: In Malfoy Manor when she's interrogating Hermione.

Andrew: I think in Order of the Phoenix the character comparison was good because she's basically Voldemort's sidekick. She just plays off that little sidekick role. In this, I think - I mean yeah.

Matt: This is the scene where she's really in the front row.

Andrew: Yeah, this is a really big scene. Yeah, it's important.

Eric: It's interesting too, because considering Bellatrix was just in the previous scene interrogating Hermione using the Cruciatus Curse, you know, I think it's going to be really effective. Because, you know, Bellatrix was just causing Hermione so much pain, for then for Hermione go and come out on the yard and say, "She tasted disgusting, worse then Gurdyroots."...

Matt: Right.

Eric: going to be so fun for the actors to do it.

Matt: It's just a whole different other side of this character we're going to see. And so I'm really excited to see Helena Bonham Carter do it because she's really a great actress.

Disguising Harry

Eric: So, back to the chapter. They're about to depart for, what, Diagon Alley, and Hermione does this thing where she mixes up Ron's face and he makes some kind of joke about he doesn't like the beard too long or something like that, and Harry and Griphook are under the Cloak. Now one of the points I wanted to bring up here was that, even though this is Harry Potter, and they're going into Gringotts, and they've got a plan, and they've been planning it for weeks, sometimes plans go wrong. Sometimes things happen, and do you guys think that just as a sort of precaution they should have also transformed Harry just a little bit? Just in case something would need to happen and Harry would need to leave the Invisibility Cloak, he would be looking exactly like himself, which is not a good idea in a public place. I always thought Hermione should've performed a spell on him too, just as a precaution, even if he stayed under the cloak.

Matt: I don't really know, because who would they transform him into and what kind of excuse would they have when he suddenly just comes out of nowhere?

Eric: What I'm suggesting - why not have Ron under the Invisibility Cloak and Harry out as someone else too? I mean if you're going to actually have a plan to have a sidekick...

Matt: But I think only Griphook would agree to hold onto Harry because he does not want to touch Ron because Ron and him argue all the time.

Laura: Yeah, and they needed some way to conceal him anyway, because it would've looked really weird if they were being accompanied by Griphook, you know?

Eric: But even when they're as far as down as the vault, anyone who looks can now see Harry Potter. But then again by that point...

Laura: Yeah, but he Imperiused the other two.

Matt: Yeah, he's the one has most of the wand power other then Hermione.

Eric: Yeah, you're right.

Matt: Ron can't do any of the stuff that - and also he wouldn't take orders from Griphook when he told him, "You must act now. You must do this now," or something.

Andrew: But also, as you were setting that up, Eric, I was thinking, has there ever been a situation where the Invisibility Cloak fails them? Because I'm thinking maybe they just trust the Invisibility Cloak, because if they've never run into a problem with it - I mean yeah, they should still...

Laura: Well, the only problem they ever had was, I think - gosh...

Eric: Harry lost it in the Astronomy Tower.

Laura: It was in the third book when someone stepped on it and it came down...

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: ...and revealed his head or something like that. That would be the only issue because - yeah, because it's a tangible object and it can be removed.

Matt: I also - It was in Goblet of Fire. I don't think it's really a problem but it's when he was Mad-Eye Moody. Oh yeah, that too! When Mad-Eye Moody saw him, or the Mad-Eye Moody impostor saw him through the Cloak.

Eric: There's that other scene in PoA where he leaves it on the Astronomy Tower because he gets caught or something. Do you guys remember that?

Laura: No that was the first book.

Matt: I think that was Sorcerer's Stone. That was Sorcerer's Stone.

Eric: When they're taking Norbert off in the book, I guess. And then he leaves it there but it magically comes back to him and stuff. So there's something...

Micah: Snape was aware of it, too. I remember him talking about it at some point in the series as well.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I just don't think it could be a trust thing with the Cloak. I mean, you know.

Eric: Just to clarify, though, I didn't mean anything would go wrong with the Cloak. I mean if anything went wrong and - I just think if the Cloak fell off, it was pulled off...

Andrew: Right. So that would be something going wrong with the Cloak, though. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, you're right, you're right. I saw that falling apart as I was...

Andrew: Wait, I do agree. You know, why not have an extra - why not screw up Harry's face, too?

Eric: Just for fun. But, to be fair, at the point...

Micah: Griphook is still there, though.

Eric: Yeah, and at the point when they get down to the vaults, they pass that water, that puddle, that erased all their concealment. So they look like themselves anyway by the time they get down to the vault, which they did successfully.

Matt: And really, even if they did change his face or not, if he was exposed, they would be in the same situation.

Eric: Okay. Well, that's cool.

Trip to Diagon Alley

Andrew: Let's keep moving on with this. So within Diagon Alley - we're still going to stay outside Gringotts for now. Upon entering Diagon Alley, Harry's - his own face is all over the streets with posters reminiscent of what we saw in Prisoner of Azkaban with Sirius: "Have You Seen This Wizard?" Now, Eric, this is in the books, too, right? Because in your notes you put Gary Oldman, but I mean, it was in the books, too. Weren't there signs...

Laura: Oh yeah, there were.

Eric: Yeah, all over Hogsmeade and stuff. I don't know if it said, "Have You Seen This Wizard?" but it said pretty much that.

Matt: Yeah, it's a wanted poster.

Eric: Yeah, wanted posters, you know, as they come. [laughs] But I had remembered because my movie theatre got a bunch of those - got a whole big stand, you know, "Have You Seen This Wizard?" Wasn't there also like a countdown to Prisoner of Azkaban - it was one of their main, I think, display pieces. One of the standees that Warner Brothers sent out was a Sirius Black wanted poster, so I thought of that immediately when I was reading this about Undesirable Number One and the Harry poster thing. They'd have fun with that. But...

Andrew: Harry mentions here that his eleventh birthday was the most wonderful one in his life, which was so sweet.

Laura: Yeah, it really was.

Eric: Yeah. He recalled going into Gringotts for the first time and the whole trip to Hagrid. Just thinking about that, like, to have this kind of reflection where your eleventh birthday was the most wonderful - it's bittersweet, because here he is, he's seventeen and he's contemplating death. And so in his first seventeen years of life, the eleventh birthday, when he found out he was a wizard, when he escaped the evil Dursleys, before he knew what evil even was, and it was just - it was really good to hear him say that. That was like, wow, he's come so far.

Matt: I think it's also a good parallel to when Hagrid was telling him about Gringotts. When he was saying, "you'd be a fool to try and break in to one of these," and here he is, seven years later, doing the exact same thing.

Andrew: Foreshadowing. There we go.

Eric: Yep, absolutely. It's kind of a - it was really cool.

Andrew: Then, while they enter Gringotts, there's these new things called the Prohibidy - Probidy - Prorabidy...

Eric: P-p-p-probity probe.

Andrew: P-p-p-p Quote Quiz. No.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Probity Probe. So there's this new security and they just - they check to make sure you have no - what was it again? - you have no charms or spells on you?

Laura: Yeah, concealments or anything.

Andrew: Concealments, that was it.

Matt: Yeah.

Andrew: No surprises.

Laura: It reminds me of TSA, when you're at the airport.

Andrew: [laughs] It is the TSA, yeah.

Eric: It is like TSA, really, and Harry has some well-armed - sorry, well-aimed - spells here, but it's exactly like TSA with the little metal detector thing or whatever it is.

Matt: It's a good thing they didn't have a MacBook Air with them, huh?

Andrew: Wuh-hooo! Current news.

Eric: Well, it wouldn't have worked because of all that magic in Diagon Alley.

Andrew: For anyone who doesn't know, MacBook Airs were recently under scrutiny because they didn't look like a normal laptop, so the TSA had to look at the new ones and be like, okay, these aren't bombs.

Laura: That happened to my dad once with an iPod. Like, he was going through and his iPod didn't have headphones on it...

Andrew: Oh, brother.

Laura: And they were like, "Don't these normally come with headphones?" And my dad was like, "Are you freaking kidding me?" Like, seriously.

Andrew: So they sneakily get pass the GSA - the Gringotts Security Administration...

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Andrew: ...and they get down into the vault. Well, they're going through there, and, Eric, what do they pass through like you mentioned earlier?

Eric: Oh my god, they pass down this weird, sort of, I don't know if it's a puddle on the tracks...

Andrew: It's a waterfall. Was it a waterfall?

Eric: Was it a waterfall?

Matt: It's a waterfall, yeah.

Eric: Oh, cool. One of those nice little waterfalls, which is probably pouring sulfur or something because they're down underneath the ground with stalactites and stalagmites. Anyway, washes away all their magical enchantment, all their concealments...sigh...and so they all look like themselves again. And Hermione's disguise - I mean, Hermione's disguise as Bellatrix worked so far, but then again, I mean, it was kind of iffy coming down.

Faulty Plans

Micah: Well, let's talk about that for a minute.

Eric: I forgot to mention that they get stopped...

Micah: I want to talk about...

Eric: Diagon Alley by what - this other Death Eater guy.

Micah: Right. They do, and this is kind of something that was not well through through again. And I go back to the Ministry situation that existed way back in the early chapters of this book. But it's pretty clear that something happened at Malfoy Manor. Bellatrix would certainly have alerted Gringotts, most likely, to the fact that her wand was stolen, and that there's other sorts of people out there that might be interested in getting into her vault. So to me this seems like a pretty stupid idea. I understand they had to do it because it advanced the story, it advanced the plot, but again, not well thought through.

Eric: No.

Andrew: They do have to get the Horcruxes, and it is made known that - they do say that they're suspicious. Harry knows that they're suspicious, right?

Eric: Well, see, Harry seems to make all the right decisions here. Hermione, however, does not. I mean a bit like Micah was saying, especially considered the weeks that they planned this thing, a lot of the things Hermione does and a lot of her confusion - you know, for instance, it takes her so long to sort of get over the fact that she has her wand, you know, sort of thing, and Harry's trying to whisper stuff in her ears from beneath the Invisibility Cloak. You know, for how much they planned it, it just - I think Hermione really messes it up for them. I think...

Matt: Well, you got to give Hermione a little bit of sympathy. I mean, she is playing the woman who tortured her for like an hour.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: No, you got to, and it's not exactly a good thing if you make a good Bellatrix Lestrange, you know what I'm saying. It's not necessarily the biggest compliment if you play her accurately, but...

Matt: Whether she played it off well or not, though, they're going to be screwed. It's pretty much obvious that they're not going to get very far. I think they all knew that. Harry even said it to himself earlier on in the chapter, that he had to keep telling himself this was a good plan, even though he knew in the back of his head it was going to fall apart. But they really had no choice, and the fact - they even said it. Harry said that they had to move as quickly as possible because Bellatrix is still really...

[Someone yells in the background]

Matt: Oh, sorry. Bellatrix is really paranoid about her vault in question.

Eric: It's true, yeah.

Laura: I think they knew going into it that the whole thing was going to fall around - you know, behind - fall down behind them, but I think it was just a matter of being quick and achieving the goal as quickly as possible and getting out. Because there was no possible way they were going to get in there, steal the cup, and then get out without anyone knowing.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: It just wasn't going to happen.

Eric: Well, there is an opposite to that too, which is what kind of happened. They did make it down to the vaults, and I am so happy for them, but by the time they did, all the alarms had been set off, and people were really suspicious. So they didn't have much time. They made it, they made it.

The Waterfall

Andrew: I have one more question about this waterfall. When they go through it, Griphook yells, "The Thief's Downfall." Is this what this system is called? Because it's in all caps, and I just don't...

Matt: I think that's the name of it.

Andrew: It is the name of it?

Matt: The Thief's Downfall, like a waterfall, the Thief's Downfall.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Okay.

Eric: Well, if it's down, it shouldn't have feathers in it.

Matt: Yeah.

Eric: That was a fabric joke, sorry.

Micah: Couldn't he have been referring to Harry? I mean - or is that...

Andrew: Well, yeah, that's what I thought...

Micah: Yeah, I mean, I guess I agree.

Andrew: I thought, it's in all caps, and it's referred to twice.

Eric: It was kind of like too, with the...

Matt: Maybe it's like part of the...

[Eric and Matt overlap each other speaking]

Eric: Like that's kind of the whole thing they have going, is that they named - it's kind of like Cutter's Treasure and Deadman's Curve. It's one of those things that Griphook likes to name on the way there. I think it was the actual name of the waterfall.

Laura: Yeah, that's what I think it was too.

Micah: But the question surrounding this, though, is Griphook didn't say anything about this.

Eric: We get the point that...

Micah: That's the issue.

Eric: I mean, we get the kind of idea that, although Griphook was like never letting the trio out of his sight and they were always planning for this, it seems to me that he left out this whole thing about the waterfall.

Micah: Well, maybe that's why he screamed it out like that. He's like, "Oh, I forgot about Thief's Downfall, here we go."

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: I don't think he forgot, though. I think it's part of that distrust that he had going. I mean, if you - I mean, later in the chapter, they're like, okay, Griphook never expected wizards to play fair and actually give him the sword. So when he dives for it when they're in the vault, it's just - Harry's just like, you know, "Oh heck." So I mean...

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: you really think he forgot?

Laura: Yeah, I agree with Eric. I don't think he forgot.

Andrew: No.

Laura: At all.

Andrew: It was probably part of his plan to reveal their identities, so once he got the sword back, he would leave, and then the trio was caught, and then Griphook wouldn't have to deal with them. And he knew. If the trio got caught, then he knew he would get his sword back.

Eric: Yeah. Itís just...

Andrew: Unless they released the dragon but thatís not going to happen.

Eric: Itís just one of those things you want to slap Griphook around for but, you know, Iím sure people would get upset if they heard me say that, so...

Micah: So you donít think he was just away for so long? I mean I understand heís worked there for how many ever years, so he clearly knows about this waterfall. But, I mean, couldnít it have been something that slipped his mind up to that point where he was just...

Eric: I doubt it.

Andrew: No.

Eric: It seems to be one of the only...

Laura: Mmm, I donít think so.

Matt: I think, probably - I mean they did make a truce, so he probably has to keep his word to that point, but he doesnít necessarily have to keep all of the details of that truce in. Like, heíll lead them to the vault but he doesnít have to necessarily...

Eric: Yeah.

Matt: ...get them there safely.

Eric: As safely as they would hope. Which is just like Harry, you know, saying heíll give Griphook the sword of Gryffindor when heís planning on giving it to him eventually, you know, that sort of thing. So just one of those things.

Andrew: And then Bill also gave that warning at the end of the...

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: ...last chapter that they donít trust humans. I think thatís just foreshadowing and thatís just, I mean, it shouldnít be a surprise to anyone that all of a sudden Griphook just conveniently forgets this.

[Eric laughs]

Matt: Iím sure - I mean, Harry kind of has it in the back of his mind too, but he just doesnít have any other choice.

Eric: Yeah. Heís kind of like, "Oh great, waterfall."

Andrew: Yeah...

Laura: I mean...

Eric: All magical concealment.

Laura: I mean he has no other way of getting down there, so...

Andrew: Yeah.

The Dragon

Matt: So we get to the dragon that...

Eric: Well, theyíve passed the dragon.

Matt: I donít know. Well, no they get - donít they come to it? Isnít the dragon guarding one of the vaults?

Eric: Yeah, itís the most...

Laura: Yeah, they see it.

Eric: ....ancient four or five vaults or something.

Andrew: Yeah, and they have to start ringing the clankers to get past it.

Matt: Yeah.

Andrew: I mean...

Matt: This is - but, okay, I just want to say something about this dragon. Did anybody, when they read the first book, know that you were going to see a dragon in Gringotts?

Andrew: No.

Laura: Well...

Matt: Did anyone see the foreshadowing?

Laura: Do you remember...

Matt: Because I did.

Laura: Mhm.

Matt: I thought we were going to go back to Gringotts and we were going to see this actual dragon being guarded by stuff.

Eric: Because Harry sees...

Laura: Yeah. I remember, actually, when the - I guess it was the deluxe cover art came out and it showed the dragon, everybody - we were all speculating about what kind it was, or whatever, and we did talk about seeing that spurt of fire in the first book when they were down there and I donít know if Harry said something specifically about expecting to see a dragon, I donít know. But the foreshadowing was definitely there and I think itís just another example of how good she was at...

Matt: Yeah.

Laura: ...setting this up, because...

Matt: Because this whole part right here, I - actually, Iíll admit something. When you guys were doing Chapter-by-Chapter, when you talked about the Gringotts chapter, that was during the whole Deathly Hallows speculation, and thatís when I thought that - because I always thought that we were going to go into and see a dragon. So I thought that maybe a Horcrux would be in Gringotts so you could see the dragon.

Andrew: Matt, we should have had you on the show like a hundred episodes ago.

Matt: I just - I didnít want to be on it. You guys didnít interest me.

[Andrew and Matt laugh]

Andrew: But you listened anyway and became a transcriber.

Eric: This whole dragon thing, theyíve - we talked about - weíve just talked about the foreshadowing. Now, do you guys think it was cool to figure out what exactly the Gringotts goblins do to keep this dragon down there? Theyíve kind of enslaved it. Itís tethered to the ground and they have these clankers that they ring, you know, to sort of instill fear in it because, I guess when they usually ring those things, they start whipping it or using swords against it is what the book said.

Andrew: I had a hard time this whole scene because, like, the vision I always got with Gringotts, especially if you go deeper and deeper into it, is that itís going to get smaller and smaller and thereís no room for a giant dragon to be...

Eric: It's a big cavern though, I mean...

Laura: I always imagined it got bigger.

Andrew: Really?

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Andrew, have you ever seen the movie The Core with Hillary Swank? They go down...

Andrew: No.

Laura: Oh, god.

Matt: Oh, god.

Eric: ...and thereís like all these caverns and normally I wouldnít mention this movie. Iím losing fans. Thereís like a little counter I keep of how many fans Iím losing and itís going - itís skyrocketing or doing the opposite right now. But in The Core thereís all these, sort of, open caverns underneath the Earth filled with diamonds and stuff. Iím sure thatís probably accurate.

Andrew: Hmm.

Eric: In the catacombs of France. [laughs]

In the Vault

Andrew: But, back to the Gringotts core, they go in - I mean what are we going to talk about? Inside the vault thereís the skull with the crown still on it and someone can explain this whole thing. Eric, what did you want to talk about with this?

Eric: With the vault, theyíre in the vault, they finally get in the vault, which is interesting because Griphook's in there with them, I think he is, and...

Matt: Both goblins are in there.

Eric: Yeah. Wait, both goblins?

Matt: Yeah, they are.

Eric: Oh, the Imperiused one as well. Yeah, itís kind of weird. It feels kind of crowded to begin with and on top of all of that, everyone knows theyíre there. So, basically all of the charms, all of the enchantments, all of these sort of things to prevent exactly this sort of thing, have been enacted. It's really like a rush, sort of thing, to the finish. Just to get out there. The whole rest of this chapter - once they get into that vault - the rest of this chapter - I mean the whole chapter goes by fast. But the rest of this chapter is like a page to the finish, you know.

Matt: Yeah. So let's talk about how the enchantment on the treasure is. Do you guys think this was a clever thing? The whole if you touch it it burns you and then it like...

Laura: Oh, definitely.

Matt: ...copies itself by twenty.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I liked it a lot. I mean...

Micah: It seems like it's almost some mythological reference or biblical reference. I can't remember where but...

Eric: Hmm.

Micah: But doesn't it seem like something that has been done before?

Laura: Hmm.

Matt: Well, this really - I don't know about the whole coping itself thing - but this whole scene kind of reminds me of The Hobbit from J.R.R. Tolkien.

Andrew: Why's that?

Matt: Has any of you read that? Because I'm...

Laura: Well, I read it in like sixth grade, but...

Matt: Well, the dragon - I forgot - the evil dragon though is guarding the treasure and...

Laura: Yeah, yeah.

Matt: And....I don't know. [laughs] I haven't read it since the sixth grade either.

Eric: Micah, you were saying about the Greek mythology, do you remember the Hydra, which also makes an appearance in Hercules movie? [laughs] The Hydra's the dragon that, you know, once you cut off his head it grows two more or three more or something. So was that what you were possibly thinking of?

Micah: No. I'm thinking about something where you touch it and it multiplies, and it's almost suffocating in the same sense that this stuff was.

Eric: Oh, because this was really sticky stuff. This whole burning, scalding sort of thing.

Andrew: I sort of just think back to like, Willy Wonka...

Eric: Kind of. Kind of, actually.

Andrew: ...when they start floating. I don't know. If they get closer to the fan they're exploding. That's the only thing I could think of. I don't know, maybe someone will e-mail in with an idea for that.

Eric: Yeah. People were really good with that when I had - I forget what I'd done. But people were really helpful. So...

Matt: Okay, so, basically, they find out that if you touch anything in the vault it burns your skin and it multiplies into like twenty.

Eric: Another thing Griphook could've prepared them with.

Matt: Well, maybe Griphook didn't know. He doesn't know everything about each vault.

Eric: Yes, he does.

Matt: You're sure he does?

Eric: I'd like to think so. Maybe. Because, I mean, he was spot on with everything else. He remembered that he...

Matt: Well, he's also the one who got burnt himself. I think if he cares about himself at all he would probably have prepare himself with what would happen.

Eric: Hmm, that's a fair point.

Matt: So...

Eric: That's a fair point.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Do we know if he got burned accidentally or what?

Matt: No, he was buried.

Laura: I don't remember.

Matt: Harry remembers seeing both goblins getting buried by the burning jewels.

Andrew: Didn't in the book - doesn't it say he could only see long white fingers?

Matt: Yeah, he could only see long skinny fingers or something.

Eric: Creepy.

Matt: So, basically, they find the - Helga Hufflepuff's cup and so Harry tries to use the sword to grab it because they find out that the sword is the only thing that can touch the treasure without setting off the charm. Hermione uses levicorpus on Harry. Levicorpus is not very easy to manipulate, and Harry keeps running into things. Everything starts to multiply out of control. So they're starting to get buried by the treasure and finally - this is the part where I get confused. Because this was very hard to follow.

Andrew: This is confusing.

Matt: I'm really excited to see what actually this scene looks like in the film because I had to read it a few times just to kind of get what really happened.

Eric: Yeah. Totally agree with you there.

Matt: Who has the sword? Harry still has the sword in his hand, right?

Eric: Well, Griphook had the sword actually. I mean Griphook was like reaching for it, he dove for it or something. Somehow Harry got it and he was trying to use to grab the cup. Hermione...

Matt: People are diving...

Eric: Hermione like - yeah. People are diving, stuff is burning, and meanwhile the whole thing is rising. You know?

Matt: Mhm.

Eric: With fake treasure and real treasure and everything is burning, scalding. Harry said that, you know, the heat inside the chamber totally intensified because all the stuff was like burning up. And in the middle of it all, Hermione uses Levicorpus on Harry. All of the sudden he's thrown up by his ankle. He's hanging by his ankle but, you know, it turns out it to be the thing that does it, I guess. Because now he's so high in the air he can reach the cup or whatever but it's just...

Andrew: And that's where Harry loses his sword.

Eric: Yeah.

Matt: Harry loses his sword but he grabs the cup. He has the cup...

Eric: Grabs the cup...

Matt: ...but then he looks for the sword and the sword is missing. All of the sudden they're being pulled out of the vault and surrounded by a bunch of menacing goblins with daggers and stuff.

Andrew: But then it also says there it was Griphook who had seen it and Griphook who launched. "And in that instant Harry knew that the goblin never expected them to keep their word."

Eric: Exactly.

Andrew: That's when Griphook takes it.

Laura: Mhm.

Andrew: So there you go.

Micah: Huh. I thought Griphook flipped the cup up to Harry.

Matt: Yeah, he did, I remember that too. He did.

Micah: So that was kind of his show of solidarity, I guess.

Matt: Yeah, so it's like, "Here you go, you're not going to keep it for very long, but that's what he agreed on."

Eric: So did Griphook really pull through?

Matt: Well, he - well, he wanted the sword, so he didn't want the treasure because he doesn't want to be considered a thief if he gets caught with the cup in his hand.

Eric: Right. According to him, the sword is his entitlement as a goblin.

Matt: Because - yeah. And basically when he has the sword in his hand. Sorry.

Laura: He also figures that, I mean, they're just about to get caught anyway, so, it doesn't really matter.

Eric: [unintelligible] I didn't catch that.

Matt: What I found was pretty shady was Griphook ran into the big mob of goblins, and they accepted him without question. With the sword in hand.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Laura: Mhm.

Micah: Well, I mean, if somebody came running at me with a sword and I had a dagger I probably would accept them too.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: No, but the other thing is, well, don't you think they trust Griphook?

Eric: I think it's an inherence...

Laura: Well, yeah, especially since he just brought back a relic that they...

Matt: And also he's jumping and screaming and pointing to the trio - thieves - going "Thieves! Thieves!"

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. And he's just joining the rest of them like he's supposed to be there, so, yeah, totally. Good play by Griphook.

Escaping the Goblins

Eric: [laughs] Absolutely. So Harry - so wrapping it up - wrapping up the chapter, the trio has to escape, and how do they get away from the goblins? I actually forget this little bit.

Matt: They run on the...

Andrew: They run.

Matt: ...dragon. Harry runs on the dragon. No, he uses...

Eric: But how far is the dragon? Does he blind them first? Doesn't he...

Matt: Oh yeah. The use a few stupefy...

Eric: Spells?

Matt: ...curses. Yeah, spells. They use stupefy on a few of the goblins, and then they start to charge on them, the ones who didn't get affected by the spell. And then they all start to run, and Harry comes up to the dragon and uses relatio, the...

Eric: On his...

Matt: Cuffs. On the cuffs of the dragon.

Eric: Shakles.

Matt: And then he yells for Harry and Hermione to get on, and they climb onto the dragon do they describe the scales on the dragon, guys?

Eric: Hard as steel, I think. It was - they...

Andrew: Yeah, you got the impression that they could break through Gringotts Bank.

Eric: [laughs] Yeah, and Harry's like, "Oh, what a good tool." And the other thing is the dragon didn't even feel them climb on, and also at first - I mean being kept down in this darkness, the dragon is actually like more or less blind, kind of. Like it's relying on its other senses sort of thing. So it doesn't actually realize exactly what's happening; it knows when it hears the sound of the clankers that it's got to, you know, be sort of subdued, but it doesn't realize that it's unshackled for a little bit of time, for that key time when the trio climbs on. And then as soon as it does realize it, you know, just totally finds its way out through the marble floor of the lobby.

Andrew: Now, I mean this is all cool and interesting and stuff, but they're going to have to change Gringotts from what it looked like...

Eric: How?

Andrew: Movie 1. At least the exterior. Because they don't have the big doors from what I'm remembering correctly from the movie.

Matt: Well, they may. You just saw the stairs up to it, you didn't see them go through the door.

Eric: Yeah, it's true.

Laura: Yeah. Well, what they did was they showed one shot of the entire exterior, from what I remember. And they made it very tall and very narrow, I believe.

Andrew: Yeah, I do remember that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it will be interesting. They probably will change some things, so...

Eric: It still will be really fun to see.

Andrew: Yeah, it will be. So that's that. I mean that's the chapter. It's all about - it's all about Gringotts. It's really cool, 'cause, you know, you get to see an old part of the Harry Potter story reappear and do something crazy. All right, well that does it for Chapter-by-Chapter this week, but first...

Quote Quiz

[Audio for Quote Quiz plays]

Andrew: Ah, yes. "Imposters!? What imposters!? I thought Gringotts had ways of revealing imposters! Who were they?" And that's Quote Quiz for this week.

Matt: Does your thing for Quote Quiz - does it really have that, "Ah, yes"? Is that part of the sound?

Andrew: No, that's me.

Matt: Oh, because you say it almost every single time, so I'm thinking, "Oh my god, does it really have that?"

Andrew: Yeah, because I'm thinking, "Ah, Quote Quiz."

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