Goblet of Fire Discussion

Andrew: She just looks like a mother now.

Ben: Yeah, I agree.

Eric: Yeah, I don't know. It's, it's interesting. I do understand what Ben's saying and I do agree with him on certain levels.

Kevin: How do you guys feel...

Andrew: I mean, people better get used to it.

Eric: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew: ...because now we have Book 5 and it's an even bigger book, and we'll be seeing even more cuts, and even more people are going to be upset about it.

Eric: Exactly, People who have not read the books are getting lost with this movie and, you know, they are because of the cuts they had to make establishing who is saying what to where and all that stuff. So, I think that people who have read the books are generally - just look at our poll on MuggleNet - are very satisfied with how attention driven this movie was. In certain ways, yes, there was no time to think about it, but my perspective, the first time I saw the movie on Thursday at midnight, I went and we were about an hour into the movie I figured, "Wow," because we still had to see the Yule Ball, we still had to see the Second Task, we still had to see the Third Task and Voldemort and the resolution and Cedric's death and all that stuff. I knew and I was thinking of what they still had to show and I knew that it was so big that they wouldn't cut it. So, the movie actually seemed to be really long for me and actually a really good use of two and a half hours.

Ben: The problem that I had with the movie is that it sort of seemed a bit chopped up the way the sections were merged together.

Andrew: We already discussed this.

Eric: But I thought it flowed.

Ben: I know but I'm just saying that, all of a sudden, okay, we're at the Second Task and then [makes "Zoom!" noise]. You said there wasn't room for a bathroom break, but it all depends on how you like things like that. If you're a big fan of action-packed movies, then this is really a movie for you. But if you're a fan of, I don't know, it all depends on what kind of movies you like.

Eric: If you see a film with choppy animation, I thought Prisoner of Azkaban had more choppy animation. They showed more of the story, but it was choppy animation. I think...

Kevin: To be honest, I hated Prisoner of Azkaban.

Eric: I think Goblet flows.

Kevin: I did not like that movie at all.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Me, too, Kevin, it was weak.

Eric: In the beginning of Goblet of Fire, you guys were perfectly on spot...

Micah: Target.

Eric: ...in the LIVE podcast when you said, "Ten minutes in and you're at Hogwarts" because that's how it was. I mean that's exactly how it was. But, I thought that it really truly flowed well with them, yet they did cut out the actual match of the Cup, but you could follow them, you could follow them and what they were doing. And I thought that it was a tremendous, great, great, way of coming into it when they went from the beginning of the match to the Death Eaters. With everybody celebrating, with Fred and George dancing around like lunatics and then Mr. Weasley coming in and saying, "That's not the Irish." It just transferred. It flows very well.

Kevin: Yeah.

Micah: Can I...

Andrew: Yeah, because you knew like, it didn't happen all suddenly, it was sort of like a slow transition.

Eric: It was a transition, yeah.

Andrew: Because they were still having fun even when Mr. Weasley still knew what was happening outside. That was good.

Eric: Yeah, and I wasn't sitting through Goblet of Fire thinking, "Okay they needed a classroom scene here." I was actually fine with just the one classroom scene with Unforgivable Curses.

Andrew: That was another thing that my sister had complained about was because there was no classroom scenes because, like the... No, no, I'm using her as an example. The non-hardcores, they like the classroom stuff because it brings back the general, classic Harry Potter, basic, generic, blah, blah, blah...

Eric: Oh. Yeah. I agree with that.

Andrew: So, I was kind of upset. I mean there was only one scene with the classroom.

Eric: That's true.

Andrew: Mad-Eye...

Ben: Well, I don't know, I don't know. Because as I said before, Newell had quite a task on his hands and he had to be able to...

Eric: Oh, I don't know how he did it.

Ben: ...to fit all the necessary things in. And there's the...

Kevin: And either way, there going to cut out something that would make other people angry. Either way.

Ben: Mhm. Right, but that was the one crucial...

Kevin: Whether it be a classroom scene or the maze, you know?

Eric: Well, there was dance class. You guys can't forget dance class with McGonagall.

Ben: Oh, funny Eric.

Andrew: But, that wasn't really...

Kevin: Yeah...

Ben: What I'm trying to say is that that was the one crucial classroom scene that needed to be in because they needed to explain the Unforgivable Curses and once they did that, I don't think there was any need for all the other classroom scenes, you know with the potions...

Andrew: Ahhh, but it brings back the classic HP, back to the books.

Micah: Yeah.

Kevin: Feel of the books.

Micah: Can I bring something up for a second?

Ben: I want to hear... You know what I want to hear? I want to hear what Micah Tannenbaum has to say.

Andrew: Yeah, I was just going to say.

Micah: Well, I thought that this was the best movie by far. Like Kevin said, I didn't like Prisoner of Azkaban very much, but there was something, and I want to know what you guys thought, that was kind of left out in this movie. We only had one correspondence with Sirius and the relationship with Sirius has not built very well throughout these movies. When he kicks the can in the next movie, are we going to see a close relationship there?

Ben: Eric?

Eric: This is the most important thing. Thank you, Ben. This is the most important thing they have to do with Movie 5. They spent Movie 4 working on the characters that were already established, like Hagrid got a lot of good things in and all the students did, the Weasley twins. Ginny got a lot in this movie. Now what they're going to have to do in Order of the Phoenix is establish the past and everything with the past.

Andrew: Which they won't.

Eric: How Dumbledore, the Potters, all the Order...what it was like when Voldemort used to reign because he's back now and Movie 5 is all going to have to be about is the prophecy and what happened in the past. So, with Sirius and the entire Order in Grimmauld Place, they're going to have to do a lot of back story a lot of true acting on the adults' part this time around, trying to understand how this is like, because Sirius has to show Harry all about his family and all about the tree and all about his past things. But at the same time, they also have to show how Sirius is shunned from the actual Order because of his danger and you know, he can't leave Grimmauld Place. They also have to, this is going to tear me apart, they also have to show Harry really pissed off at everybody.

I think that Dan Radcliffe took a tremendous leap in Goblet of Fire, I mean a tremendous, tremendous acting leap. I loved Dan in this movie. He did such a wonderful job and it's going to be a real pain in Order of the Phoenix to see him play a really angsty, angsty ticked off-at-everybody Harry. I think he did the Harry in this movie so well and they... I mean it's just amazing. So, but in answer to Micah's question, I think they're going to have to spend a lot of time on the adults.

Micah: The relationships. Establishing them.

Eric: Establishing the relationships.

Kevin: Yeah, definitely.

Eric: And I think they're going to have a heck of a time doing that and still having the plot and with Umbridge at school and all this stuff, but I would not care if they cut more school stuff out to use the actual Grimmauld Place and more like what Harry's parents were like in the past.

Kevin: Now, do you think they're going to include a lot of Umbridge?

Eric: They have to in a way because...

Ben: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah, but that's what people were saying about Rita Skeeter, right?

Eric: Ehhh. Well, it's corruption...

Andrew: No. Who said that?

Eric: I think what they're doing, what they're doing with the movies, they're avoiding it. It's corruption in government, and they need to get it into the movie somehow. And I think they've been putting it off and putting it off and if they don't do it in Movie 5, it's never going to happen in the movies. I really doubt it.

Ben: Right and...

Eric: So, I think they need to this year at Hogwarts.

Andrew: Yeah, that's one of the most important books.

Ben: To what Micah, to what Micah was saying about establishing the relationship with Sirius and all that. I think Movie 5, I have no idea how they're going to be able to fit that in the two-and-a-half hours.

Micah: Yeah.

Ben: If there are purists who are upset about Movie 4, then when Movie 5 comes around...I don't know.

Andrew: That's what I said.

Kevin: Yeah, I think that people just have to realize that things have to be cut, you know? And the director does the best job they can with it, and that's what has got to be done.

Ben: Have we heard anything about the length of this? Are they still shooting for two-and-a-half hours?

Andrew: We should have asked Heyman that.

Ben: That would have been a really good question.

Kevin: We'll track him down.

Andrew: All we know is that they're starting filming in late February.

Eric: I think, guys do you agree with me on this that the Department of Mysteries scene itself and the final battle could be like 45 minutes in video.

Ben: I completely agree with you, I think...

Kevin: It could be yes, but I don't think it will be.

Ben: I think Order of the Phoenix could be a 20-hour movie.

[Kevin laughs]

Ben: Honestly.

Eric: It could be too because they need to establish, I mean Movie 4, Movie 5 the rundown. A very short rundown. They have to do the dementors on Privet Drive so do you think, could they cut it? I really...it's a really big thing. But, if they do that, do they have to put Mrs. Figg in? Can you guys imagine them trying?

Kevin: I think they could cut that, to be honest.

Eric: You think?

Ben: What I see happening is...

Kevin: I think it would be a good transition to introduce the Order. I think what they're going to do is instead of introducing the Order in this movie, they're going to have the dementors attack and have them show up somehow and that's when they're going to introduce them.

Ben: Here's what I see happening. I see basically Harry getting attacked on Privet Drive, then Mrs. Figg coming out yelling, screaming, whatever. Then Harry automatically...instead of waiting three days like it does in the book when he's locked in his room and all that, Harry automatically gets swept away by the Order of The Phoenix. They go to Grimmauld Place. We're not going to see Grimmauld Place like we have in the past where it's basically...in the movie, I mean in the book we see a lot of Grimmauld Place because Harry is waiting for his trial, we hear...we see more of the real Professor Moody and things like that. I see that getting condensed down, then Harry going to his trial, them basically saying, "You're still at Hogwarts" or whatever. Hogwarts is going to get...I don't know, that's probably going to be the most condensed part because the Department of Mysteries stuff is probably the most crucial...

Eric: Because it's all about the prophecy.

Ben: ...part to the movie.

Kevin: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Ben: Yeah.

Kevin: And that sets up the rest of the series so you can't cut it.

Eric: You know what else they have to do? They have to show Brendan Gleeson as Moody, they have to actually...Moody has to act a completely different character so either they'll show him able to do that or they won't show much of Moody in Movie 5, but it's going to be confusing for the people who just watch the movies if they don't establish Moody as a different character, there'll be people who still think he's a bad guy.

Micah: I think that was pretty well established at the end of the fourth movie that he's not a bad guy.

Kevin: It was yeah. I think that was pretty well established.

Ben: Well, yeah and of course they'll have to...you know when Harry...there's a line in the book where Harry says, "Professor Moody?" and then Moody responds, "Well, I didn't get around to... I don't know if you can call me Professor because I didn't get around to much teaching next year because..."

Eric: Yeah. But, you know what I'd really like to see? I would like to see Lupin, I mean, sorry, David Thewlis and Brendan Gleeson and everybody in Privet Drive with the Dursleys. I just want to see that happening.

Ben: I don't know, David Yates the director of Order of the Phoenix is going to have quite a job on his hands, even more than Newell did. And also, we have a new screenwriter too.

Eric: What?

Ben: It's no longer Steve Kloves.

Eric: Steve Kloves...no? We don't have...

Ben: It's Michael Goldenberg.

Eric: We don't have Steve Kloves anymore.

Ben: Michael Goldenberg is the new screenwriter. So it looks...

Eric: Did you guys know that?

Ben: Order of the Phoenix is going to be something...

Kevin: It's going to be unique.

Ben: Yeah, something different because...

Andrew: Well, the problem with David Yates is he hasn't done any movies. Or he has but...

Kevin: He's done TV kind of movies.

Andrew: His main...right. He's done a lot of TV movies. It's going to be interesting to follow. He's a Brit.

Eric: How are they...?

Ben: JK Rowling...isn't it the case that JK Rowling has to approve the script?

Eric: I don't...

Andrew: I'm pretty sure they run everything by her. That's what someone told us.

Ben: I'm sure...

Kevin: Because what...

Ben: I'm sure JKR's not going to let them completely destroy it.

Eric: I don't know.

Kevin: It's not that, it's that what if they exclude something that is vital to the Book 7 plot and we don't realize it yet.

Micah: Right. Like you just said before...

Kevin: So she has to look over it because what happens when they get to the Movie 7?

Andrew: Well they've already screwed that up so...

Eric: And then again they didn't...she remarked the other day that she hadn't seen Movie 4 yet.

Andrew: Oh she's seen it now.

Eric: She's seen it now but I mean if she hadn't seen it...

Andrew: No, no, but... Right, but...

Kevin: But she read the script.

Andrew: She signs off on everything.

Kevin: Exactly.

Ben: Right.

Micah: Well, Kevin...

Kevin: Yeah?

Micah: Like you just said, the dementor attack on Dudley, isn't that supposed to be revealed what he saw in Book 7, so won't you need to include that in the fifth movie?

Ben: Well I see them chopping off those parts.

Kevin: But is that going to be a vital part of Book 7?

Micah: Yeah, I mean I don't know.

Eric: I don't know, I liked what they did in Goblet of Fire with Adrian Rawlings and Geraldine Somersberg/Somersville...Lily and Potter. I'm sorry, Lily and James in Goblet of Fire. We saw them and we heard them. I liked that. I thought that was incredible and I'd like to see the Pensieve scene with them in the past, and the Marauders in the past because that's one of the things that was cut out of Prisoner of Azkaban is the Marauders in the past. Will it ever make it in the movies? I don't know. All I know is they really should start showing what happened when Voldemort was powerful the first time because that's such a needed input. Like...it just occurred to me upon watching Goblet of Fire the second time that the name Riddle had already been established in Chamber of Secrets the movie, you know Tom Marvolo Riddle. It didn't occur to me and that's because there's so little past and so little much of the past in the movies, and I think we need more of that.

Ben: Yeah. Okay, well I have an idea here. Okay. Andrew...starting with Andrew, say what your favorite scene in the movie was and why.

Eric: Ben, that's a brilliant idea.

Andrew: Okay. Oh, I got to think about that one for a second.

Kevin: I'll go. I could go.

Eric: Okay, Kevin.

Andrew: Yeah, go ahead, you first.

Kevin: I was thrilled with the Dragon scene.

Eric: That was cool.

Kevin: I don't think...it wasn't...

Andrew: That was going to be my choice.

Kevin: Yeah, it wasn't because you know, I did like other scenes because of the emotion of the scene and how it was constructed, but just the action of the Dragon scene was just amazing.

Eric: And you know what they did?

Kevin: What?

Eric: You know...I'm sorry Kevin. You know what they did with the whole Dragon scene is they established a Columbus/Cuaron/Newell Hogwarts that finally agreed with itself.

Kevin: Oh yeah.

Eric: Also, and also, all of the video games. If you look at the Chamber of Secrets video game, the archways and the duct, the harbor at Hogwarts is finally established, it's actually in the movie, the stuff from the video games in the past and you know, the things that...

Andrew: Yeah well they're making it more like the movie. Has anyone played the Goblet of Fire video game yet?

Eric: I think it would be awesome.

Kevin: I haven't.

Micah: No.

Eric: I haven't played it, but it's got to be cool.

Kevin: They have to send us copies.

Andrew: We should, we should...no we should all just play it and do a review on it.

Kevin: Yeah.

Andrew: But actually, getting back to the Second Task...

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: You know what I really would have liked to have seen? When he, when he...how do you pronounce it? Accio Firebolt?

Ben: Accio.

Eric: He said Accio.

Andrew: Did he? Accio Fire...when he said Accio Firebolt, I would have liked to have seen the Firebolt like lift up and head for the...

Eric: Yeah, and break free. Right.

Kevin: Oh yeah. Like cut-scene.

Andrew: That would have been a cool shot like have the camera... right.

Kevin: Flash back and forth between Harry and the Firebolt? Like back and forth?

Andrew: Well, that would have been kind of corny but...well I don't know.

Kevin: That would have been pretty cool.

Andrew: Bring up some momentum.

Eric: Because that's what Fred and George do, don't they?

Andrew: But that would have been just cool, to see like, to hear him yell, "Accio Firebolt" and have the camera just fly back to Hogwarts, see it lift up and then go back.

Eric: Yeah, that would have been a really cool shot. Don't Fred and George...

Andrew: I was sort of hoping for that.

Eric: Guys, don't Fred and George do that in Book 5? With theirs?

Andrew: What?

Eric: When they take off, don't their brooms break free from the chains to go...

All: Yeah.

Eric: From Umbridge's chains. So there might be a chance to do that. Yet. If they wanted to, because that would be cool, flying through the Halls of Hogwarts you know, kind of broomsticks, camera but...

Ben: Well, since you guys pretty much agree that your favorite scene was the Dragons, the Second Task. My favorite...that was an awesome scene, I agree with you guys, but what my favorite scene was, was the Graveyard. I thought that was about the coolest thing ever.

Eric: Ben, that's my favorite scene.

Kevin: See...

Eric: Yeah.

Ben: Sorry Eric. But we'll discuss this. Hold on.

Eric: No problem.

Ben: What I thought was awesome was when...you know when Peter...when Wormtail was basically brewing the potion and getting ready to cut off his arm and then Cedric and Harry come there and they're all confused and then Cedric just drops dead and... Ah, I just thought it was sweet to see Lord Voldemort in the flesh and it was great.

Eric: You know what's cool?

Ben: And then even when, like the most emotional scene in the movie, we talked about this in the LIVE Podcast, was when they...after Priori Incantatem when the Wands were connected, which they didn't explain what happened there either, basically after that happened and then Harry grabs the Portkey, Cedric's body, and goes back, they're laying there on the ground and then everyone thinks they've won and then Fleur lets out the scream and that really moved a lot of people to tears. I didn't cry, but everyone around me was.

Kevin: I saw you cry. I saw you cry.

Ben: Oh, Kevin.

Eric: Caught in the act, Ben.

Ben: Eric, what did you think?

Eric: I agree with Ben. Ben's entirely right on this and that's, that's true.

Kevin: It's a matter of opinion.

Eric: Well, my particular fascination with the Graveyard scene was Voldemort. And not just Voldemort but how...I mean Ben used the term "in the flesh" and that's exactly what he was. He was in the flesh. That's all he was and you know, Voldemort wasn't done up with a thousand special effects. He was done up with a hundred pounds of make-up probably, but that's beside the point.

What I mean is, you saw Voldemort as he had been before he fell in person, standing there right next to Lucius, standing and threatening them and just...standing! He exists! That's the scariest thing in the world to me. He wasn't necessarily scary. He was ugly. But, just this fact that he commands respect. His presence on that Graveyard ground just commands this reach into the past at who he was, who he is, and why he's threatening and why they all look up to him and this just evil that was so well represented by Ralph Fiennes and I just want to see more of it, is all I'm saying. I want to see more of Voldemort and he was so real and so personable and so crazy.

Ben: I think the coolest scene in Movie 5 has to be Dumbledore and the Dark Lord dueling in the Department of Mysteries.

Eric: Which is going to be...

Ben: That is my, that is my favorite part of all the books you know, when Dumbledore comes out and says, "You shouldn't have come here tonight, Tom," and...that was just incredible.

[All laugh]

Eric: Micah, what do you think?

Andrew: [mocking Ben] Ahhh, that was just incredible.

Kevin: [mocking Ben] Ahhh...

Eric: Micah, what do you think?

Ben: I'm a sap guys. What do you think, yeah Micah, what's your favorite scene in the movie?

Micah: I talked about this with Andrew and definitely the best scene was Flitwick crowd-surfing during the Ball.

[Kevin laughs]

Eric: Was that Flitwick though?

Kevin: I don't...

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Is that, because they totally...because Cuaron changed him!

[Micah laughs]

Ben: Yeah.

Eric: And I never understood if that's Flitwick or not because they never really...it kind of sounds like him when Hagrid stabs his fork through him.

[Kevin laughs]

Eric: I mean...

Ben: What about Movie 1, wasn't Flitwick a guy with a white beard and stuff?

Eric: Yeah, so I never understood. Like I saw the guy there.

Kevin: They changed it in...

Andrew: They made him more classy.

Eric: I know. No, I like, I actually like the new Flitwick, but it's just that they never really established it, they never really have him say anything that would give us that connection. Now, I actually watched the credits all the way through because I thought there was something special at the end which there actually wasn't in my reel. Did you guys see anything special at the end? Did you hear about that?

Andrew: No.

Ben: I don't know.

Eric: Okay, the only thing is, at the very end it says, "No Dragons were harmed in the creation of this film."

[All laugh]

Eric: Which is really cool, but there was no special video like Lockhart or anything like Chamber of Secrets. But, anyway it does credit Warwick Davis, so I was thinking like "Was that Flitwick?" Because if it was, I think it's really funny and I actually like the more you know, pseudo-Flitwick. But he...they never really, I don't think they ever really explained that so I wasn't sure if that was Flitwick or if he just existed to lead the non-existent choir in the chorus and the band, which now exists.

Micah: Yeah, that was just supposed to be a joke though...

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Micah: I mean...definitely the Graveyard scene, I agree with...

Eric: Well no, it was cool, it was cool. The crowd-surfing was...

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