Listener Tweet: Harry's Father Figures

Andrew: Okay so let's move on to the next question, then? It's from Paris2616,

"Why did J.K. Rowling get rid of all the father figures in Harry's life? James, Sirius, Dumbledore, Lupin; she killed them all!"

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: And of course the simple answer to this would be, you know, this helped Harry become an adult – put him into adulthood – and to make him stronger. At least that's my opinion. But do you guys think there's more to it?

Nick: Well she didn't kill all of the father figures. I mean she kept Arthur Weasley alive. She gave him the reprieve.

Andrew: Yeah.

Nick: And did Lupin and Tonks in the same...

Eric: But she almost did. She almost killed Arthur Weasley.

Andrew: That's true.

Nick: True, true. She did...

Andrew: But also, I mean, James, Sirius, Dumbledore, and Lupin – I think they are the largest father figures to Harry.

Nick: Well she said in a quote somewhere that she killed Lupin and Tonks to mirror, or echo, the death of Harry's parents.

Andrew: Right, right. So it went full circle.

Nick: But in regards to Dumbledore, I think he had to die for Harry to be truly alone and on the quest, and not have someone he could fall back on, I guess.

Andrew: Yeah. I guess if you think about it you can really pull each of these apart, I mean, and offer reasonable explanations. James died, of course, from Voldemort's whole attack in the first place. Actually, I don't know as much about Sirius. Why would Jo choose to kill Sirius?

Eric: I think it's to repress Harry, really. I mean, think about the end of Prisoner of Azkaban, which isn't when Sirius died, you know, but he came so close to having what was close to being a normal life, and unfortunately that destiny was not Harry's until he grew up...

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: You know, until he had a family of his own. But he came so close to – I just have flashbacks to the end scene in Prisoner of Azkaban the book and, you know – he just came so close to his godfather that it felt like it was meant to be, but it wasn't. So I guess she killed Sirius so that we realized, you know, in Book 5 when things got down to it that there was no right answer and that the end wasn't going to be easy or happy. I think that was Jo's way of preparing us at first, I mean, because Sirius was the only one who understood Harry in that book and...

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Readers included, you know. So...

Micah: I think a good question for her, based off of what both Nick and Eric said, would be if Arthur had died would Sirius have lived through that book? And...

Andrew: Hm.

Nick: That's interesting.

Micah: It's an interesting situation because, you know, I think Sirius had to be killed off because of a lot of the storyline that develops later on in Half-Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows. Whether it be with Kreacher, or the locket, or Regulus Black. You know, and then reusing Grimmauld Place to their advantage. I just don't think that it would have worked out. And, you know, Sirius at times, as much as we don't want to think like this, but he got in the way. And...

Andrew: How so?

Micah: Well, I think that it would have made Harry's task a lot more difficult in the last two books if Sirius was there. And, you know, we saw Sirius jeopardize - or the whole concept of Sirius being in danger jeopardize Harry to begin with. And that's the whole reason he ends up dying in the end anyway. But I think she killed him off probably because he would be one more figure that could be used against Harry and in favour of Voldemort, as sadistical, I guess... [laughs] ...as that sounds.

Andrew: I think - and the other thing we could wonder about is if Arthur were to die instead of Sirius, which death would have been bigger from a reader's standpoint and from Harry's standpoint. And also from, I just guess, everyone in Harry's world. I mean, I think everyone in Harry's world - the death of Arthur would be much larger just because of the Weasley family. I mean, they're all losing their father and Harry's losing someone who is like a father. Whereas with Sirius, yes, it still affects everyone. But Sirius was really only Harry's father so to speak.

Micah: Yeah. And at heart, it...

Andrew: So which one do you think would have been bigger?

Micah: I think Sirius'...

Eric: Hm.

Micah: ...is still bigger for him personally.

Eric: It's Harry's...

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: ...story. But then again - I mean, so much - I mean, if we didn't have Arthur Weasley - I mean, that's the connection to the Ministry, you know, gone. And...

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: And plus - I mean, Ron would have just been - all of the Weasleys would have been essentially inactive characters for some time if she were to do them in the right way.

Andrew: Exactly.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: That's why I wonder...

Eric: So - I mean, the plot I think - or the story would suffer, you know, perhaps more. I - you know, I just thought of that. You know the reason that she gave Arthur Weasley the reprive, could it have been, you know, because all of her - I mean, that's a lot of grief to write. You know...

Andrew: Yeah, it is.

Eric: I mean, eight characters' grief around the same, you know, single person. Whereas, you know, in Book 7 she can spread it out a bit.

Micah: Well, I think...

Eric: Yeah, I think...

Micah: ...you still needed a father figure in the end. And I think Arthur Weasley is a father figure to him regardless. I mean, they do have a very close relationship. They do share a lot of information throughout the stories with each other. And I remember though, in particular, a lot of people were upset by Sirius' death. A lot of people felt that it was unjustified, you know, in Order of the Phoenix, specifically because Harry had just been reunited and they had really grown in terms of their relationship and then all of a sudden it was ripped apart.

Andrew: Well the thing I'm still not totally cool with is just the way Sirius died. Like the whole veil thing because we haven't gotten an explanation for it.

Eric: No, I would have liked to see the other side of the veil or something.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: I mean if it was death by curtain, I mean that was just like a giant WTF moment. I mean but then I mean of course if you - the thing is too like that scene reads so quickly and if you do read it, it says like there's a green light or a flash before he hits the curtain so technically he's either like - and in the movie I think they cleared it up that he was actually hit with the Death curse before or actually in the movie he was kind of absorbed into the curtain so it was kind of – kind of weird. But the way the book was, it was just really confusing and I - I think, you know, speaking from my own opinion - you know I really wanted to know more about the death scene but there was no - and the Death room in the Ministry but there was just no closure for that sort of thing and the - it wasn't the route that was taken. Wasn't Sirius in the woods with them, at the end?

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: With Remus and that right before the final battle? Okay so I mean at least it's closure in that knowing that Sirius isn't in some kind of limbo, that, you know, falling through the curtain just took away his body and that he's still ended up where he's supposed to.

Micah: Anything else on these other characters? I mean I think we've spent a lot of time talking about Sirius.

Andrew: Yeah well I think Sirius was the most debatable. I mean we know why Dumbledore had to die. And I really don't think Lupin - I mean he was a father figure but - like, like Nick brought up, Jo explained that Lupin had - oh, died to bring another family - you know, to bring it full circle where - what's the kid? Oh, Teddy, you know lost his parents to war, so that I get. I think that was a nice touch. So any other thoughts about that question? Okay, then we'll move on to the next question from foreverafan.

Listener Tweet: Ghosts

Andrew: She says:

"Do you think that the people who died in the Battle of Hogwarts became ghosts? So many people died there!"

And we've talked about ghosts before on you know, past Halloween shows but we don't think we've done anything since Book 7 came out so let's talk about that. As Nick - Nearly-Headless Nick described - not MuggleCast co-host Nick - "wizards can leave an imprint of themselves upon the Earth to walk palely where their living souls once trod. I was afraid of death. I chose to remain behind. I sometimes wonder whether I oughtn't have - should not have. Well that is neither here nor there. In fact, I am neither here nor there." That's a quote from Nearly Headless Nick in Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 38. And thanks to the Lexicon for that quote by the way. And according to Jo, she herself said, "There are some people that would not come back as ghosts because they are unafraid or less afraid of death." So in other words, you got to be afraid of death to want to be a ghost. So with that - so with all that information, guys, we know that Snape, Fred, Remus, Tonks, Colin Creevey, Bellatrix, Crabbe, numerous Death Eaters, they all died. Any of them, do you think would come back as ghosts? And why?

Micah: Wow. That's a powerful question.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Is it really?

Micah: No, I'm just kidding. There's a lot to it though.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Well, I wanted to present everyone with background information first.

Micah: Well you'd almost have to analyze each individual character to figure out whether or not they'd want to become a ghost.

Eric: Yeah.

Nick: I guess you could want to rule out the Order. Surely they knew in joining the Order, they'd face death. Surely they knew that, and therefore they wouldn't be a ghost.

Andrew: That can't be a fact.

Eric: Yeah. That's a good point, too. That it was the battle of all battles, so those who went to battle with some...

Andrew: They knew they were going up against Voldemort.

Eric: Well with some mental preparation, would have - would be less likely to not - would be less likely to feel as though they have unfinished business on earth. I think what it is, is that the kids that were fighting, the students who were old enough, who were basically allowed to take their wands and do what they could in the end during that final battle at Hogwarts. I mean, I think those characters we couldn't name nor know of, the unnamed fighters would probably be the ghosts opposed to the characters we know and love, who like Nick said, knew what they were doing and unfortunately bit it, but were prepared to.

Micah: I don't think anybody on that list that we have right there would probably become a ghost.

Andrew: What about Fred? I mean, his death was so sudden and I almost think he would prefer to. So did he even have time to think of whether or not he was afraid of death? I guess he...

Nick: He's the sort of person that would stick around to annoy people.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Like a poltergeist.

Nick: Joining Nearly Headless Nick.

Eric: He's not Peeves. I think the Fred thing - If you're a Weasley, at this point in the wizarding world, if you're a Weasley, you've faced so much prejudice and battle and hardship through your family, that you're ready for death. And more to the point, J.K. Rowling killed him with a smile on his face. And that is the best way to go. Actually, no, it's the worst way to go. But it was fitting enough that I don't think Fred's character has anything unresolved because he died, Fred the jokester died with a smile on his face. That was his closure.

Micah: If anybody, Voldemort would be at the top of my list to become a ghost.

[Eric laughs]

Nick: Jo - Jo ruled him out I think.

Micah: Yeah, I think she did.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: Yeah. Yeah. But he would...

Nick: But yeah, sure. If he...

Micah: If he was human in some capacity.

Eric: Yeah, if he had enough of a soul...

Micah: Exactly.

Eric: ...to become a ghost.

Micah: Yeah. That would be my choice, but nobody else? I mean not even Snape. I mean Snape...

Nick: Would - would Bellatrix for Voldemort?

Andrew: Hmm. I don't think she - I really don't think she's afraid to die. Because - just because of how crazy she is. I almost think she doesn't think about it at all. Just because of...

Nick: Yeah, she's a bit warped.

Andrew: Yeah, I mean her - her mind is just not there and again, you're working with the Death Eaters. You're working with Voldemort. I think death certainly crosses your mind if you're in as much as Bellatrix is. I think - I think she would not be afraid to die. But I wonder like even - I wonder why this is the rule for becoming a ghost? Do you think this is the rule? Like you have to be afraid or not? I mean could it just be that can't you be afraid to die? Rr can you - can you not be afraid of death, but still want to come back as a ghost?

Micah: I thought it had something to do with unfinished business as well. I remember reading that somewhere.

Nick: Well, yeah.

Andrew: Well, you can't really do business as a ghost can you?

Micah: Well, you can get living people to try and finish the business.

Andrew: Yeah, I guess. I guess it's also worth noting that Jo did say that ghosts are more - more lifelike than a - a portrait.

Micah: Why is that the only reason though? I mean I kind of agree with you.

Nick: Yeah.

Andrew: I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it's something to discuss further in our Halloween episode. I mean Jo said this in a chat where the question was sort of posed to her out of the blue so maybe that was just - she didn't want to go into more detail. But I think it's definitely an interesting question.

Eric: These are good questions.

Listener Tweet: Crimes of Harry Potter

Andrew: All right. In that case we'll move on to the next question which is from Kelsey0403 and she says:fays

"The many crimes of Harry Potter..."

[Eric gasps]

Andrew: "...Killing Tom Riddle."

Well, okay. I mean basically she wanted us to discuss the crimes of Harry Potter and I - I assume...

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Micah, do you know exactly what she was asking? The gist I got from it was how does he get away with it? But is that what she was asking?

Micah: Or just the - the nature of them. I mean I don't know. I think it's more of the fact that he gets away with them. [laughs]

Eric: Guys, you have to share this. She wrote, in the actual Twitter post is... [laughs]

Andrew: "Grand theft dragon."

Eric: "Grand theft dragon."

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: So - I mean we came up with a little list of stuff that Harry has done. We all know he's a trouble maker, but I guess you have to wonder, and we'll try discussing it, why he's gotten away with so much. A smaller thing, he's traded information with fellow Triwizard Tournament competitors and I guess - I don't know if that's against the rules, but it's still sort of like cheating. He stole the dragon of course, the grand theft dragon. And he's been caught breaking and entering into Gringotts. Countless times he broke the rules at Hogwarts with Ron and Hermione, and of course he killed Tom Riddle. So I think killing Tom Riddle you can argue that one, and also we've seen laws from the Ministry of Magic such as you know you can use - you can use magic in the presence of a Muggle as long as it's in self defence. But none the less why do you guys think he still gets away with all this stuff?

Micah: Well because if he didn't [laughs] there wouldn't be a series. But...

Andrew: Yeah but I'm looking for a different explanation.

Nick: Because he's the chosen one.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Micah: I mean breaking those down real fast - throwing aside the trading the information. I mean that - that's not something I don't think would be cause for arrest you know? Whereas some of these others...

Andrew: No, no but I'm not even saying arrest. It's just like giving another example of how...

Micah: Well...

Eric: That - that was slanted though too because - I mean Mad Eye Moody was in it trying to kill him. I mean Harry didn't even want to be part of it.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: I - I think so much what Jo does in the series when Harry breaks rules is to actually show how flawed the rules are or to either justify Harry, or to show how his means to justify the end. And - and not only that but all the other characters make those same excuses for Harry - that you know in the end after all was said and done Harry becomes an Auror and is reprieved of any and all - law - things he's done because let's face it, he put down the darkest wizard of all time. So, you really going to arrest Harry Potter after that sort of thing? So, I mean - I think a lot of what he did do that was legitimate rule breaking was excused. Especially by Dumbledore...

Micah: Yeah and...

Eric: ...obviously.

Micah: ...yeah I was going to bring that up.

Nick: The serious stuff was during war. I mean they just throw that out the window.

Micah: Yeah in war you can steal dragons and break into banks and ministries, and...

[Eric and Nick laugh]

Micah: ...other places like that. It's not - everything goes out the window as you said Nick.

Eric: Well he - I'm sure that they would have gladly walked in to the Ministry and gotten what the needed to and walked out but the times didn't call for that.

Micah: Right that's...

Andrew: Well, I guess it's like - how in like James Bond he has a license to kill? Well, does he have a license to do whatever the hell he wants because he's defeating Voldemort?

[Micah and Eric laugh]

Andrew: Like is that the thinking in the wizarding world? Maybe not...

Micah: Well, according to Dumbledore...

Andrew: ...I mean he's not going to go around killing everybody.

Micah: I think it is. Go back to - I think it's at the end of Chamber of Secrets or is it Sorcerer's Stone where Dumbledore tells him he has a certain disregard for breaking the rules.

Eric: Chamber of Secrets movieism.

Micah: And...

Eric: No actually it's in the book too. But Chamber of Secrets...

Micah: And you know he compares him both to his father and to Tom Riddle.

Eric: Oh.

Micah: So, I think in two different books. But he does - both of them don't like to follow the rules. So - and again in Deathly Hallows he's made into this rouge type of, you mentioned James Bond, but it's almost like he's on the run from everybody. So, when you're put in that position you're going to have to break some of the rules, you're going to have to do some things if you want to be successful and get out of the situation that you're in.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: I can't - can't stop thinking about that scene in The Simpson's Movie with Santa's Little Helper where he says, "I did things no dog should do, they will haunt me forever."

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: But honestly though, self defence is the number one protective - next to - next to free speech and press now a days. The - the - the self defence is as high as it gets to you know, within the law, for you to do what it takes if you're life is in danger. And that just reminded me of - I mean your question. Well, in Prisoner of Azkaban when Fudge says you know, this is a movieism but, "We don't cart people off to Azkaban just for blowing up their aunts." What if they had? What if Book 3 entailed Harry going to Azkaban? What if they locked Harry up for blowing up his aunt? I mean, if Dumbledore wasn't able to convince them that Harry needed to go to school, so that he could complete school and be a decent wizard, so he could go up against You-Know-Who or whatever, if they just put him off in Azkaban I mean that would've been the end of this wizarding world. If they made Harry do the legal thing and - and held him accountable for his actions.

Micah: No. What about this killing Tom Riddle? Is this from Chamber of Secrets or is this from when he actually kills Voldemort at the end of Deathly Hallows?

Andrew: I'm not sure. I'm just going off of what this listener said. But - I - I mean killing - killing Voldemort, I think - who's going to fine him for that? But even with Tom Riddle he didn't really kill Tom Riddle in Chamber of Secrets.

Eric: Well, Tom Riddle was killing Ginny. He was absorbing her life.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: And - and really. I mean Harry thought he was dying by the poison. So, I - I - I don't know. That's a - that's a tougher one I think than killing Voldemort.

Andrew: I think that in a way it's sort of - I think one - someone could argue that Harry setting a bad example for kids in the wizarding world who read about Harry's history, the history of Harry Potter, and they realize that, "Wow, look at all - look at all he got away with just because he was doing something right. Or what was right for the greater good." And I wonder if people could argue - and again, look guys, I mean, we've got to argue this stuff as if it were real. So, with that said...

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: ...I wonder if people could in - in - in the wizarding world think, kids growing up think, "Wow look at all the stuff he did for the greater good. I'm going to start breaking laws and crap because I think it's for the greater good."

Eric: That brings up an interesting - like I'm just going to be quick about this, but think about all the bad things, bad characters do. Like is - is Harry being a bad example? No, Draco Malfoy is supposed to be the bad example for kids to not do because - but things that Harry's villains and enemies do are within the law is the thing. Draco - Lucius Malfoy does many things that - bribery is not within the law, but all of the sort of villains in Harry Potter, especially Dolores Umbridge, do things that are within the law but which are morally corrupt and - and are reprehensible otherwise. And so breaking the rules is in fact the good thing because abiding by them is what the people in charge do and the people in charge are corrupt. So it's - it's very kind of backwards, topsy-turvy, upside-down in the Harry Potter books, and I think people have to realize that - that Draco Malfoy is the bad guy even though Draco sometimes does things in - that are - that are by the rules.

Andrew: I - I agree with that.

Micah: But the other side of it is if you want to take it and put it in a real world context, these are the types of arguments that - that people are going to use against the Harry Potter books...

Andrew: Right.

Micah: ...specifically related to Harry.

Andrew: I was going to say that too. Yeah.

Micah: Look at somebody like Laura Mallory. I mean take the magic aside and not even mention that. Oh well, he's killing people and you know he is stealing things and he's breaking into places, and he's impersonating other people.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: These are the types of things that they use.

Andrew: Right, Grand Theft Dragon! We would never do that in real life.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: They're setting bad examples! [laughs]

Eric: Grand theft dragon was a means to an escape.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Congratulations Kelsey! You just named this show.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Grand Theft Dragon? Yeah.

Listener Tweet: Harry Potter in the Future

Andrew: All right. Okay, let's move on. We have one last question for today. It's from BrittJK. He says or she says:

"Discuss what you think will happen in 20-30 years when new kids are reading 'Harry Potter.' If they'll be as obsessed as their parents and/or us."

So I - I think one of the first questions is how will - how do you guys think - and I think this is interesting to talk about - how do you guys think children will discover Harry Potter? Will people - will they get recommendations from their parents and teachers? Because you know now we have the movies. People see the movies and they say, "Oh I'm going to read the books." Or they see their friends reading the books. But not as many people 20 to 30 years from now are going to be reading the books. So how are they going to be recommended? How - how is - how are the Harry Potter books still going to stay alive and extremely popular. We know they can, but how are people going to realize it. You know what I'm saying?

Eric: People will get the books beamed to them on their Kindle 3000. [laughs]

Andrew: That's true. That's true.

Eric: Yeah. Or while they sleep - played you know constantly.

Andrew: But really, what - how do you think people will find out about Harry Potter? Your kids - say - say we all get married and have kids, and then 20-30 years from now they're just entering the age of reading and they're old enough to read Harry Potter. How would you convince them to read it?

Nick: Read it or I'll disown you.

[Everyone laughs]

Nick: No...

Micah: No video games.

Andrew: Without being arrested, how - how could you?

Nick: I guess it would be more prominent in schools in reading lists and things, wouldn't it?

Andrew: Yeah. Well, hopefully. I mean the problem right now is a lot of schools don't have it in their curriculum because kids see it - or teachers and I guess administrators see it as too - too mainstream.

Nick: Yeah.

Andrew: And people just don't get why it's popular.

Micah: Well, I mean...

Andrew: People don't realize it's popular because it's a good story.

Micah: ...you could certainly give it to your kids, and let them read the first book and make the decision if they want to continue on and see what happens. I mean you - you at least control that situation. As far as the schools, it - it may take some time. I mean, it may take 20 or 30 years just for it to enter the curriculum and - and get over the hump, so to speak, of some of the things it's encountered. But, I mean any classical piece of literature always faces some kind of obstacle, it seems like, when it's - when it's put into the curriculum the first time around.

Eric: That's - that's rather true. And, I mean let's not forget Harry Potter surged in a time when it wasn't part of the school curriculum. I mean, it being a part of the school curriculum wasn't - it wasn't dependent on that for its popularity. And so, even if it's not in school curriculums, I'm inclined to say, "Yes, it will still be viewed as classic literature that - that - that certainly - I mean, you know how popular the books are that they're published in all those different languages." I - I will show them the books, my copies of the books to my kids, and if even half of the people who've read the Harry Potter books and are fans of the Harry Potter books do the same to their kids, we're not going to have to worry about there not being a fan base for it or - or it not being part of - if not mainstream at least casual conversation, pop culture. It - I think just the impact of Harry Potter is just too great for it to be forgotten in - in - in any span of a few decades.

Andrew: But, we say that now...

Eric: It's true. It's true.

Andrew: ...but look at books that - look at what we would consider classic literature right now. I mean, sure, I guess Harry Potter could be considered because it's complete, but look at classic literature from maybe 20, 30 years ago. Can - can a parent tell a kid to read it because they really enjoyed when they were a kid? I mean, generations change over and over again. I mean, for all we know in 20 or 30 years from now everybody could be all about space and - and nobody wants to read or see any movies about anything unless it's about space.

Micah: Yeah. Well, I mean, that's the thing.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: You give them a book and you let them read the first one and if they like it...

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: ...then they continue on. If they don't - I mean, you're not going to be able to convince every kid.

Andrew: Right.

Micah: I mean, we have to remember that this happened in our time...

Andrew: Yep.

Micah: ...and nothing is going to replicate that ever again I don't think.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: It's very true.

Micah: And you can't do anything to sort of replace that, and that's why I don't think they're going to feel the same way about the series, I mean there's no way to possibly - to do that, you know. And it sounds kind of corny, but, you know, when you open up that book for the first time and there's a smell that's associated with it [laughs], and I don't know if you know what I'm talking about...

Andrew: What? No, I'm kidding.

Micah: You know what I'm talking about...

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: ...it's kind of the specific Harry Potter smell.

Eric: Yeah. Micah smells books. [laughs]

Micah: I do. No, it's true! And specifically those types of books - and you know, you're always wondering, "Is what I thought going to be coming true in this book? And, you know, what's going to happen?" And, you know, you're racing to get through it to discuss it with other people. And that's something that's unique - you know, as crazy as it sounds - it's very hard to replicate.

Andrew: No, absolutely!

Eric: I agree. Actually, you know I think - I think it will have most to do with how relevant the Harry Potter books - Micah, what you just said had me think about that - you know, how popular do you think the Harry Potter books will be in twenty or thirty years? Well, what makes them popular now - and, I mean, I find Harry Potter to be very relevant to the current world, at least that it's set in this sort of generation, so I guess how popular it will be will kind of have to do with how strong the messages, and how people can relate to it in a distant future, you know, when there is no war and peace after Obama's second term.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: You know, all of that. So I'm, you know...

Andrew: But Micah brought up another point too - that the hype of it all - the racing to finish the book against other people who are, you know - millions of people are reading it as you are - you have to - that will never be replicated again for the Harry Potter series. And it's kind of a shame, but it's true - and so with that missing, what's going to happen? I mean - and now let's also remember that before Book 7 came out, everyone was wondering, "what's going to happen in the movies right after the books come out? Will the movies die down?" And the question was no. I mean, the movies are still extremely popular and around movie release time, that classic, you know, Harry Potter fan anticipation is still there. And it's great, so...

Micah: Yeah, I mean...

Andrew: It's hard to say, that's the short answer.

Micah: Yeah, it is hard to say. And you know, Eric you brought up its relevant to the time, and, you know - I just wanted to mention this really quickly because I forgot to put it in the document - but a lot of people were asking us to talk about, you know, some of the contemporary things that are in the series. And you know, I was talking to Andrew about it before the show, and we actually did a whole show that focused on, you know, some of the underlying themes that were in the series and particularly related to politics and things like that. And it was Episode 162 and we talked about racism and ethnic cleansing, Nazism, corruption, biased media, educational reform - we really got into it. It was a long episode - it's on our wall of fame. So, if anybody wants to check that out Episode 162 was back on November 5th of last year, 2008.

Andrew: Honestly, I feel like it would almost be a disservice to mankind if every single Harry Potter fan did not recommend the series to their kids and their grandkids and tell them how amazing it was. There needs to be some sort of way you can illustrate that to them. What do you do? Do you show them a website and you are like, "Look at these pictures from the midnight releases!" Does it go in the history books? What happens?

Micah: You guys are a bunch of dorks. What were you doing? [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, that's what the kids will say, yeah, because they are always...

Micah: "Daddy you are such a loser. What are you doing?"

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Then we just show them the complete box collection of - the tenth anniversary box collection of - MuggleCast...

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: ...on Blu-ray, on one Blu-ray disk.

Andrew: Well, we got the five-year anniversary box set coming next year.

Eric: Uh, yeah.

Favorites – From Twitter

Andrew: Yeah. Okay, well I think that answers that question. Any other final thoughts about this? No? Okay. We have one more Twitter response, but we're going to put it into our favorites segment which we're going to do now. This is an interesting question. As most people know by now, we use this favorites segment to talk about our favorite "blank" in the Harry Potter series. And this question comes from Vdork. He or she says, "Who is the best - story wise - character? Not your favorite." So, it comes down to personal opinion still and...

Micah: Yeah, but I think it requires you to think a little bit more as opposed to who your...

Andrew: It does.

Micah: ...my favorite character is not necessarily the character I think who's the best story wise. I think that is a cool question that she asked or he asked.

Andrew: Let's go around the table. Nick, not to put you on the spot first, but how about you go first.

Nick: I suck at picking favorites, but...

[Andrew laughs]

Nick: ...best story wise I'd say probably Voldemort or Snape.

Andrew: Pick one. You have to pick one.

Nick: Well, I guess from our discussion earlier it has to be Voldemort.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Nick: The back story alone is - and in the books wouldn't be the books without him.

Andrew: Right. Like Nick, I was going to say Snape because his back story - with the just the way he was treated at Hogwarts when he was a student with James and everyone else, it's just a really beautifully sad story, I guess you could say, and it all ending with Harry saying "Look at me" to Harry and looking at Lily's eyes one more time. It's just a really, a just beautiful story, a beautifully tragic life he had. So that's why, character wise, Snape is - and also just how J.K. Rowling set him up as a "whether or not he's going to be bad or good, the good guy or the bad guy," which is what everyone was wondering at the end of Half-Blood Prince.

Micah: Yeah, you know, I was going to go with Snape too, but just too mixed things up a little bit...

Andrew: Yeah?

Micah: I don't know. I feel like there are characters that are very well written...

Andrew: Right.

Micah: Someone like Umbridge can make you angry reading the book, physically angry.

Andrew: Yeah...

Micah: But...

Andrew: Are we talking about the story as a whole or just one book? Because I agree that Umbridge is an amazing character.

Micah: Yeah. See it's hard though [laughs] trying to think about it - and I like Dobby too throughout the course of the series, but probably a better one would almost be Kreacher, to see his turn around.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: At the end of Deathly Hallows, or the middle part of the book.

Andrew: I think, I think Dobby is a good choice.

Micah: Or Kreacher for that, I mean...

Andrew: Sorry, Kreacher, I meant.

Micah: I think it's hard if you're not focusing on the trio, you're probably going to go for somebody who's more of a bigger character. I don't know, I'll say Kreacher, I'll vote for Kreacher.

Andrew: And it's a very rewarding experience, for the reader, and of course the trio. You had a really rewarding feeling seeing Kreacher have this turn around. I was like, "Yes! Yes!" You know?

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. Story-wise Snape, just because there was an entire mini book dedicated to it, he's the character everyone either loves, hates, loves to hate, but regardless it was until the very end people were trying to guess his loyalty and he was the most interesting, I mean I think he's the most sympathetic character too - sympathetic as we are sympathetic towards him, he's the most flawed, even more flawed than Dumbledore or Harry and yet, I don't know, is he the most human would you say?

Andrew: I think so.

Eric: Snape as his...

Andrew: I was going to say it's just a beautifully tragic story.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: And it made it very human.

Micah: Yeah, we threw out a couple of other ones just because Snape is - probably - all four of us mentioned him, so I know we said Umbridge and Kreacher. And I don't know, Petunia's another one, too, who has an interesting story...

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: ...that you find out about later on. But I...

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: ...don't think anyone's topping Snape. I think Snape wins, hands down.

Andrew: Yeah, I agree. Thanks everyone for those questions. If you don't follow us on Twitter already you should, because, quite frequently, we're sending out tweets to our listeners, you know, asking them for questions and stuff, so there's your opportunity to get on the show.

Micah: And everyone here is on Twitter. Minus Eric.

Eric: [laughs] Yeah, I don't...

Andrew: That's right.

Eric: ...I don't have Twitter yet. Well, I don't have a smart phone - before you ask. I don't have a smart phone, and I want to get a smart phone before I get on Twitter. It just makes sense. I know you don't need one, but I want to be able to mobile-Facebook.

Micah: And that was a shameless plug for everyone who has a Twitter on the show.

Andrew: Right.

Micah: So, before you yell at me, that's exactly what it was.

Nick: Thank you for that. Nice. Thank you.

Chicken Soup for the MuggleCast Soul: Back to School Edition

Andrew: You arrogant, stupid, shameless-plugging news anchor, you. It's time for Chicken Scoop - Chicken Soup - Back to School Edition! And it's from Jordan, nineteen, of Michigan. And she writes:

"Dear MuggleCasters, I have been a listener for quite some time now. I have never really had a reason to write in to you guys, but I guess I do now. This is my first year at a major university. My life is in the middle of this weird transition between childhood and adulthood. Basically, everything I know is changing right before my eyes. Plus, on top of that, I am very homesick. But there is one thing in my life that hasn't changed: you guys! I can still come back to my dorm at night, plug in the iPod, and hear your voices, just like old times. So, I just wanted to thank you for creating MuggleCast and Smart Mouths. It is truly a slice of heaven for me. Sincerely, Jordan."

So thank you, Jordan, for that. And I always love Chicken Soup: Back to School Edition, because...

Eric: Mhm.

Contact Information

Andrew: ...you know, it comes every September and we always get some nice emails. So best of luck with college to everyone, and for everyone else who's back in school. It's time to wrap up the show, but before we let everyone go, we want to remind you about our contact information. MuggleCast.com, of course, is the place where you can get all the information you need about the host, about - you can read transcripts...

[Show music begins]

Andrew: ...you can contact us. But we want to remind you to follow us on Twitter at Twitter.com/MuggleCast. And also fan us on Facebook with our shiny new URL, which is Facebook.com/MuggleCast. So it's nice and easy to get on there and become a fan of us. And we send out updates through our Twitter, and also through MuggleCast, so make sure you do that. You can always email us using our first name at staff dot MuggleNet dot com, or just visit MuggleCast.com, and there's a contact link and you can write to us that way, as well. And lastly - I'm doing this all out of order. I used to have this down pat. But like, I don't know what's wrong with me. I'm, like, forgetting how to do this anymore - you can send us parcel mail to our P.O. box, which is P.O. Box 1752, Cumming, Georgia, 30028. And just address it to "MuggleCast". Phew. So that's it. I need a drink of water, and I'm Andrew Sims.

Show Close

Eric: Um - I need some pizza, and I'm Eric Scull.

Micah: I'm Micah Tannenbaum.

Nick: I need a Coke, and I'm Nick Myers.

Andrew: What do you need – Micah, what do you need?

Micah: Oh, I...

Andrew: Coke, pizza, water...

Micah: I need some soda.

Andrew: Okay, so you need a Coke too.

Micah: Not that kind.

Andrew: Or - oh, I see. [laughs] Okay, well, something sugary then.

Micah: Nick probably needs some sleep. It's – what time is it there, Nick?

Nick: Four-thirty.

Andrew: Nice job, man. Jamie would never do that for us. [laughs] I'm just kidding. But yeah, seriously, thanks for staying up so late.

Nick: You're very welcome. I enjoy it.

Andrew: Four-thirty in the morning, if anyone didn't get that. So, all right. Again, thanks everyone, we'll see you next time for Episode 180!

Eric: Woot, woot!

Andrew: Buh bye!

Micah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

[Show music continues]

Bloopers

Andrew: Hopefully there won't be any hurricanes, because that's right around hurricane season, isn't it? Actually, I'll cut that out, I shouldn't say that. [laughs]

Micah: Way to promote the convention, Andrew! You should leave it in here, actually...

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: Yeah, come here and you'll die! No! [laughs]

Micah: No, hurricane season actually is not...

Andrew: Starts in August, right?

Micah: ...until August, September.

Andrew: Yeah. So...

Micah: So you'll be fine.

Eric: Oh, oh. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah. We can all hide in Hogwarts if there's any bad weather or anything.

Eric: That's right. No safer place to be!

Andrew: Exactly.

Eric: Except one. There's Hogwarts...

Andrew: Gringotts, of course. Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: So also...


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Written by: The Transcribers