Chapter-by-Chapter: "Gryffindor versus Ravenclaw"

Andrew: It was very well produced. Thank you Emma and Tom. So now we're ready to get into Chapter-by-Chapter. And this week we're looking at Chapters 13 through 15 of Prisoner of Azkaban. Chapter 13: "Gryffindor versus Ravenclaw." The chapter opens with Ron who's visibly and audibly angry at Hermione for Crookshanks's alleged killing of Scabbers and everyone except Hermione is convinced that Scabbers was eaten by Crookshanks. It's sort of an awkward atmosphere. So Harry decides to cheer Ron up, he'll take him down to watch Harry practice Quidditch for the next day's game, the big Ravenclaw versus Gryffindor match. And he tells Ron, "Look, to cheer you up, you can ride my Firebolt." And that sort of cheers up Ron. So just before starting the Quidditch practice Harry gets his first introduction to Cho Chang. And who we all know of course is his love interest in Goblet of Fire. And it's kind of ironic because when Oliver tells Harry about Cho Chang, Oliver says, "I really hoped she wouldn't be fit." Which is kind of ironic because Harry hopes Cho Chang fits his relationship bill in the next book. [laughs]

Eric: Which is kind of crazy and Oliver Wood says, "Oh, she's had a lot of injuries this year. I hoped she wouldn't be able to play..." But she's physically sound, just not maybe mentally so. I don't know I feel like Cho Chang gets a bad wrap in the books. For your first point, Andrew, I just wanted to comment, does Hermione really have a reason to believe that Crookshanks didn't eat Scabbers. I mean, to be honest, at the end of the previous chapter, there's a lot of evidence against Crookshanks with the blood and the hair on the bed sheets. I just can't see, other than Hermione being - I don't want to say stubborn but...

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: ...but you know she's very emotional about this. Does she have any reason to suspect that Crookshanks didn't actually eat Scabbers?

Micah: Yeah, I think that's a great point. I was going to bring up the same thing. I think she is being a bit stubborn here. There's no question about it. She's really adamant about the fact that she's right, and I think even though she is in the long term, it's just something about her character. I don't think she can accept the fact of being wrong or that she brought in this animal that killed her best friend's pet. I don't think she can bring herself to the reality that that could have happened.

Eric: And so it's very isolating. I mean, Harry and Ron kind of go off on their own and Hermione - I think the first chapter - I mean the chapter opens up with, "It looked like the end of their friendship."

Micah: Yeah, it goes along with her know-it-all personality I think, to have that kind of a stance, that, "There's no way that my pet cat could ever have..."

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: "...done something like that."

Eric: Yeah. I mean in reality, Scabbers deserves to have been attacked by Crookshanks.

Micah: Yeah, but...

Eric: I mean, if that's what happened and cats will be cats and you've got to expect that kind of thing to happen.

Andrew: So moving along, Harry uses his Firebolt for the first time. It's described as being able to, "Turn with the lightest touch. It seemed to obey thoughts rather than his grips. Go across the field at such speed that the stadium turned into a green and gray blur." And I thought that was kind of interesting how Jo described it because it's very dreamlike.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: "Turned with the lightest touch." It's like a segway. "It seemed to obey his thoughts rather than his grips." It just sounds beautiful.

Eric: It's cool.

Andrew: Like you want to ride it when you read this description.

Micah: Yeah he's got a top of the line broom. And I also think it has a little bit to do with how good Harry is.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: I think that plays into it a little bit as well as to how he's able to compliment this particular piece of sporting equipment. He is the best Quidditch player at least from Gryffindor, and it shows in this particular scene. And I don't know, the scene - that's the interesting question - would anybody else be able to take command of a Firebolt and be able to use it the same way Harry does. They say it's this great broom...

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: But I think because of the player Harry is, it just comes naturally to him.

Andrew: Yeah, I think that's interesting actually and - when you were talking about that I was thinking, "I wonder if Draco were to try this, what would happen then?" I don't think it would be described this way - probably more in a negative tone. But yeah, Harry and the Firebolt are like a Ying and a Yang - they're together. They're as one. "Be one with the Firebolt!" Trelawney would probably say. So the team has a perfect practice and for the first time Oliver has no complaints. Which is awesome! It's sort of like when Eric has absolutely nothing to say. It's very rare.

Micah: [laughs] Yes, it is very rare.

Andrew: I'm saying that right now because Eric had to walk away to take care of his dog. So the next morning Harry, in what I believe is sort of a move of arrogance, brings his Firebolt into the Great Hall during breakfast. All right, so he sort of had to bring it in because he was going right up to the Quidditch field right after. All right, but he could have hid it or something, I don't know. Everyone 'Oohs' and 'Aahs' at it and Draco asks Harry if he's sure he can still protect himself against the Dementors. And Harry fights back with an insult about Draco's Seeker abilities which ends up being a pretty funny moment.

Eric: Yeah, he tells Malfoy that he hopes that [laughs] he can attach some extra arms to it so it can catch the Snitch for him. It's one of the few candid Harry moments where Harry's not talking to just Ron or Hermione about how he feels, and Harry actually has to go up against somebody and use his mind. It's very interesting.

Andrew: So moving along, prior to the game starting Harry sees the Ravenclaw Seeker Cho Chang for the first time. And there's heavy foreshadowing here. Jo says that Harry noticed, quote: "She was extremely pretty and he felt a slight lurch in the region of his stomach that he didn't think had anything to do with nerves." And reading this now you say, "Yeah, Harry's got a crush on her. That's kind of cute. Sort of taking his attention away from the game". But now - if you read this now, having read Goblet of Fire, all you can think of is [sings] "Love, love, love!" [laughs] So it's kind of nice.

Eric: I don't suffer from that problem. Do you have that problem Micah?

Micah: What's that?

Eric: Do you think of, [sings] "Love, love, love".

Micah: No, no...

Andrew: Why wouldn't you?

Micah: ...that didn't cross my mind at all when I was reading.

Andrew: Why?

Micah: Well no - definitely there's a bit of foreshadowing. But the whole - that song didn't play in my head that you're talking about.

Andrew: Well I'm sorry! Geez.

Eric: Is it like the Beatles' "Love"? Or are you talking about...

Andrew: Well, regardless, I saw love and I'm sure our listeners did too. So the game begins and Lee Jordan provides commentary, but keeps veering off point and McGonagall repeatedly yells at him on mic which - it was kind of unprofessional of McGongall to do, but it was very funny to read because McGongall in all caps writing, "AHHH! STOP IT!"

Eric: Yeah. Everybody's stoked about the Firebolt. Lee Jordan can't stop talking about it.

Micah: Well Lee Jordan is usually biased though in his commentating abilities, that's for sure.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: Especially during the later chapter that we're going to go through with Gryffindor and Slytherin. She's got her head in the right place though getting after Lee because she wants him to be as impartial as possible.

Eric: It's a very good thing to have a Gryffindor do the announcing too. Imagine if it were a Slytherin.

Micah: I don't think it would be entertaining.

Andrew: No it wouldn't, yeah. But it would be cool to see a teacher commentate like McGonagall or like Dumbledore. I don't know, it could be kind of funny.

Eric: Or like Trelawney? [Laughs] I have consulted the inner eye!

Micah: Doesn't Luna take over in the later books?

Eric: Yes.

Andrew: Yeah. She's not funny.

Micah: She must put people to sleep though. I mean the way her voice is.

Eric: Well she's got the hat, I think the lion hat keeps everyone awake because it threatens to eat them if they fall asleep.

Andrew: During the match, Harry spots three black hooded figures he believes are Dementors and sends an Expecto Patronum at them and he's able to conjure a very large one and he doesn't even think of it, he just sends his spell and goes on his way. Now he does this with a lot of courage and I think partially because as it's described in the book because he's got his adrenaline going, but also because quite simply, they're not Dementors so he's not really losing any energy because they're really not Dementors.

Eric: It's not said what his Patronus is but he hears the sound of hooves. He flies away as he casts this Patronus and something very large erupts, there's hooves coming out. Harry can't see what it is and in fact I don't think he does see what it is until very much later but I'm pretty sure that anyone else can see actually what his Patronus - what form it takes at this point and nobody mentions it to him afterwards except Lupin who says, "That's quite a Patronus." So it's very interesting because you'd think there'd be the whole school walking up to him like, "Why is your Patronus a horse? What's the deal?"

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: You'd think so. Just like when he speaks Parseltongue and everybody is scared of him.

Andrew: So he captures the snitch shortly after this and after the game learns that they weren't Dementors, they were actually Malfoy, Crabbe, Goyle, and Marcus. Now a few points about all this. We talked about Harry's adrenaline, but I think this also sort of taught him a good lesson that if he's really pumped up and means it, he can do it, he can cast the Patronus. And I was reading the notes about this chapter at the Harry Potter Lexicon and everyone at the stadium - this is a good point. Everyone at the stadium probably sees what shape Harry's Patronus takes - the stag. So why did Lupin use this as Harry's security question in Order of the Phoenix? Do you think that was a little...

Eric: Oh!

Andrew: ...mistake that Jo made?

Eric: Actually I think that's probably true - that's probably a mistake.

Andrew: Yeah. She must have forgotten about it I guess.

Eric: So is it in Order of the Phoenix that he asks him? Because what's the situation in Order of the Phoenix where he asks him?

Micah: It's when the Advance Guard arrives at Privet Drive. Lupin asks Harry, what form does his Patronus take?

Andrew: Ah yeah. So yeah I think that was just a little oversight by Jo but that's okay. Minor thing, minor thing.

Eric: Okay.

Andrew: And finally, my final point about this was what was Malfoy thinking? If he shows up as a Dementor, with his friends obviously some action against those alleged Dementors is going to be taken...

Eric: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew: ...probably in the form of a spell because everybody just wants to take them down. And shoot Expecto Patronum at them. So what - I mean...

Eric: He - yeah he is lucky he didn't get like Diffindo-ed or what's - what's the really bad one that Ginny uses and it just disintegrates like walls of prophecies?

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. It's just ridiculous and I almost feel bad for him....

Micah: Reducto.

Eric: Thanks.

Andrew: ...considering how damn stupid it is. So moving along, the Gryffindor students hold a party in their dormitory and though the only one not celebrating is Hermione of course. She tells Harry she has a lot of studying to do and Ron doesn't want her to join. So when Harry asks Ron about it Ron says he's not bothered that she's not sorry. And this upsets Hermione who runs up to her room and I sort of think this is evidence that Ron doesn't feel very much affection at all for Hermione at this point in their lives because if he did there would be some level of remorse but here there's just nothing. I mean he loves Scabbers more than he loves Hermione. Yes, you can have affection for your pet but pet versus Hermione, and holding a grudge for this long - I don't know. It just doesn't feel right.

Micah: Well I think some of it has to do with the fact that she's not showing any remorse either. She doesn't seem to be upset at the fact that Scabbers is gone and that her cat possibly killed him. I mean all the evidence is against Crookshanks in this case which you mentioned earlier so I think part of the problem is that Ron would like to see Hermione possibly admit that for once she may be wrong.

Eric: Yeah. So it's driven the emotion out of him that she is so steady against the idea. So you're saying if he does feel anything for - he has to, "be strong" to kind of head her off because she is a know-it-all and she is not admitting at this moment where she killed the thing he loved - his pet.

Micah: Yeah and he aggravates her a number of times throughout the series in this kind of emotional way. We saw what happened in Sorcerer's Stone when she runs off to the bathroom and gets attacked by the troll. Happens in this book, not as big a consequence. Happens in Goblet of Fire, the night of the Yule Ball. It happens in Half-Blood Prince with everything that goes on with Lavender. So...

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: ...he does it a lot and I don't think he realizes probably until well into Half-Blood Prince that he really does like her.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Well, it's interesting. It's a good thing that you brought this up, Andrew, too, because I think what you were saying about Ron not being at that level where he really has deeper feelings that he could put his love for his pet aside and either give her the benefit of the doubt or at least feel bad for her that her pet killed her. Any of those adult feelings is not Ron at this point and I think that you're very right about that. That's - it's kind of slow going for Ron's emotional maturity.

Andrew: All right. So, as we move along through this chapter, they head to bed and Harry drifts into a dream and this dream is some more foreshadowing. Boy, do I love foreshadowing! Here is the description of the dream from Jo's writing:

"He was walking through a forest with his Firebolt over his shoulder, following something silvery-white. It was winding its way through the trees ahead, and he could only catch glimpses of it between the leaves. Anxious to catch up with it, he sped up, but as he moved faster, so did his quarry. Harry broke into a run, and he heard hooves gathering speed. Now he was running flat, and ahead he could hear galloping. Then he turned a corner into a clearing and..." Dream cut. So as Mariana, 23, of Mexico City points out, she wrote in to us about this:

"What happens there is pretty much the Silver Doe scene, isn't it, and I wonder if Harry is having visions of the future in his dreams." And of course she's right. It's definitely some foreshadowing towards the end of the book, right, seeing his stag?

Eric: Wait, the - oh, yeah. Is she saying that it's foreshadowing for the book or foreshadowing a scene out of Book 6 - yeah, Book 7, sorry. Is she saying it relates to the end of this book or that Silver Doe scene in Book 7?

Micah: Well, I guess you could...

Eric: Because...

Micah: You could...

Andrew: I think both.

Micah: Both, yeah. I mean nobody brought up the ending scene in - or one of the ending scenes, as you just pointed out, that's obviously a tie-in there, too, but I think she's going for the scene in Deathly Hallows.

Eric: Yeah, because I took this to read he's trying to find his father, basically. Even - I was thinking earlier in the chapter he casts this Patronus, everybody but him saw it, nobody's bringing it up to him. He doesn't know what form his Patronus takes. He doesn't know the significance behind it yet, either. So I think this whole thing was kind of in search of his own identity, in a way, that he's twisting through the woods and trying to - looking for his dad as he ends up flat-out doing.

Micah: Right.

Eric: He's sure that he saw his dad at the other side of the lake by the end of the book.

Micah: Yeah. This is not the first time, though, that we've seen this. We saw it in Sorcerer's Stone. There is a dream Harry has that kind of foreshadows what happens on the Astronomy tower. So...

Eric: It was...

Micah: ...it's...

Eric: Wasn't he chasing Quirrell's turban?

Micah: Yeah there was a flash of green light and a high cackling laugh and Draco turned into Snape or something like that.

Eric: Whoa!

Micah: Yeah. There...

Eric: His dreams were a lot more tripier back when he was doing acid.

Micah: Yeah, but if you...

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: ...look at what happens [laughs] to Dumbledore on the Astronomy tower, Draco leads the way to Snape, there is a flash of green light and Dumbledore gets killed. So...

Eric: Fascinating.

Micah: Yeah, I think there are a lot in his dreams through out the series.

Andrew: Well...

Micah: It's a great connection.

Andrew: The reason the dream was suddenly cut off, who knows what else we would have learned in that dream come to think of it, he's awoken by Ron! Who claims to have seen Sirius over his bed with a knife! And Ron's panic ends up waking the others in the room. And nobody believes him at first so Ron shows the slashed curtains as evidence of Sirius's appearance and they head down to the common room and McGonagall shows up, confirms with Sir Cadogan that he indeed let Sirius in! And Sirius had gotten a hold of Neville's list of Portrait passwords! Now what's the deal here? Couldn't Sirius just researched this a little better. He's walking around, all the kids are asleep. He had plenty of time to see which bed was Harry's. Don't they have suitcases right by their beds with their initials on them?

Eric: [laughs] Well, he wasn't looking for Harry.

Andrew: Wasn't he...

Eric: Remember he was actually - he got the right bed. Because he was looking for Scabbers. Peter Pettigrew.

Andrew: Oh, right.

Eric: He was expecting Scabbers to be under Ron's arm or something. So he had the right bed, it's just Scabbers was presumed dead at that point.

Andrew: Still though. Very unprofessional for Sirius. You wouldn't just go in...

Eric: Oh yeah, you wouldn't...

Andrew: ...and wake Ron up.

Eric: Oh, absolutely.

Andrew: That was a bit silly. He's not the smartest guy.

Eric: He should have gotten Crookshanks to get the rat, drag him out somewhere where he could kill it. Like somewhere where he can have some privacy at least. I mean what do you think he was going to do? Stab the rat and walk away?

Andrew: Yeah. That would be way too easy.

Eric: The other thing I want to mention is, Sirius is very emotionally driven. He's still unstable at this point. Because he doesn't know if Harry would ever really know the truth about his innocence. At this point he is really unstable, all he wants is revenge, to commit the crime he was imprisoned for, da da da da da da. So all he is trying to do is to kill Pettigrew at this point. He's very emotional. He's not thinking things through.

Chapter-by-Chapter: "Snape's Grudge"

Andrew: All right, lets move on to Chapter 14: "Snape's Grudge."

Eric: Sirius Black's attack on Hogwarts brings higher security! Professor Flitwick is teaching the front doors of Hogwarts to recognize a picture of Sirius. [laughs] I wonder what else the front doors of Hogwarts can learn how to do. Like, I don't know, play Black Jack...

Andrew: Tap dance.

Eric: Tap dance.

Andrew: Cook.

Eric: Cook. Yes, the front doors.

Andrew: That is pretty funny how they can - he can teach the front doors to recognize a picture of Sirius.

Eric: I bet they tell awesome jokes!

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And also security trolls are hired to protect the Fat Lady. First of all, Sir Cadogan is fired, because even though there was a whole list of passwords, da da da da da, Cadogan is just not fitting the bill. They expertly restore the Fat Lady and she is now being guarded by trolls. Also, nobody is allowed to give Neville the password. That's an interesting point I wanted to bring up because it's kind of - it's really harsh. Like Neville, you know - Sir Cadogan was making these really ridiculous passwords to begin with. Nobody with a decent memory could remember them easily. And Neville - Professor McGonagall strictly forbids anybody from telling Neville the password. He has to wait until another Gryffindor comes by and lets him in to the common room every time he wants to go in.

Micah: Right. It's definitely - you feel bad for Neville. There's no question about it. I mean, he's been picked on pretty much all throughout the series to this point. The even harsher side of it is that Neville would never have wanted for anything to come of him writing down the passwords in the sense of harming Harry or anybody else. So it's kind of a double whammy for him.

Andrew: Yeah. And to think that he was putting his friends in danger.

Micah: Right.

Andrew: I mean, that must be horrible. And it's just in his character to be forgetful like that and to be clumsy like that, so he really can't change. [laughs] It's sad. I mean, he does strengthen throughout the books, and of course, Book Seven when he ends up taking on a leadership role.

Eric: Yeah, would you argue it's as a result of this kind of stuff? Where he's like, "I need to do the right thing for everybody"?

Andrew: Yeah. I'm sure it helped him a bit. I think...

Eric: Build inner character.

Andrew: I mean, all these kids are still young at this point in Prisoner of Azkaban, so it's not surprising that a kid would be forgetful but at the same time, Neville takes it to a new extreme.

Eric: [laughs] That's true...

Micah: Well, he is bested by a cat.

[Everybody laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Neville, yeah, is bested by - I wonder if Trevor had anything to do with the list of missing passwords.

Micah: No, I don't think so.

Eric: Maybe Sirius the dog is - no? No. Okay. Well, those are the two main security things that is mentioned - the three main security things. Nobody is talking to Neville. They have somebody guard the Fat Lady and the front doors can now recognize a picture of Sirius. I don't know, [laughs] do you think any of these measures would work, though? Because we know first of all that...

Micah: No.

Eric: ...Sirius isn't using the front doors.

Micah: Exactly.

Eric: And the interesting - especially after later on in this chapter, which is actually about Snape, and it's called "Snape's Grudge", this chapter. We actually learn that Lupin - we find the Marauder's Map, Lupin finds it. He knows about all these passageways in and out of Hogwarts, and he hasn't come forward to Dumbledore. He still hasn't come forward to Dumbledore - I know we got a Muggle Mail, too, about Sirius Black being an Animagus...

Micah: Yeah. Let's just clear that up right now so we don't have to go through the e-mail later. I made a mistake on last week's show saying that Dumbledore should have been aware of Sirius in dog form because he knew about all of these guys being Animagi during their time at Hogwarts when in fact we find out later on in the book that that's not true. So Lupin was actually keeping this information from Dumbledore.

Eric: So Lupin is kind of - I mean, this really brings the question up to Lupin because at this point a student like - Lupin doesn't know Sirius is innocent and he continues to not know until a few chapters from now. And the fact that Sirius was seen with a knife over Ron, presumably with a knife over Harry, Lupin doesn't want Harry to come to any harm. Why at this point - a knife over a student in the Gryffindor common room - would he not come forward with this? That Sirius is actually a dog at times and knows all these extra passageways that even Filch doesn't know about?

Micah: Yeah. I think this is a huge mistake on Lupin's part. And I know clearly he has a very good idea of how Sirius could be getting into Hogwarts. So it really makes you wonder why knowing Lupin's character and Lupin himself even thinking that Sirius was responsible for what happened to the Potters, that he wouldn't come forward and say something, that he wouldn't reveal information about the castle that's absolutely vital to protecting the students.

Eric: It seems, too, if Lupin did come forward, not only would there be no book, et cetera - it's a common thing to say - but that actually seems like that would probably effectively stop any more attempts on Sirius gaining entry to the castle. That said, Sirius doesn't really break back into the castle after this time. I mean, everything else happens more or less on the grounds and/or out of Hogwarts. So regardless, the next morning, Ron is more popular than Harry for the first time ever, it is said. Ron is retelling the story of how he woke up and there was Sirius Black, the mass-murderer, crazy, dirty-haired and Ron's really more popular now, so he loves telling the story, et cetera. But privately, to Harry, they really wonder why Sirius Black didn't just kill Ron. Once he found out that he had the wrong bed or whatever, why didn't he just get rid of Ron and move on to, clearly, his intended target of Harry. So they're starting to piece together that something is just not quite right with this whole thing because Harry mentions that he has no problem killing innocent people. He killed those thirteen Muggles on that crowded street a while ago, you know. I mean, what's the deal? So Harry and Ron are kind of starting to piece things together at this point. There's definitely something odd about what happened - it's just crazy.

Andrew: Yeah, it should start becoming more clear now. I mean, you're not killing Ron. It's like, hello!

Eric: Ron and Harry do go to Hagrid's, and they see his ugly purple suit, and he reminds them that Buckbeak's trial is coming up. It's interesting, he mentions that they're going to go to London to hear the case, but he doesn't mention the Ministry of Magic. But I wanted to say, obviously they're going to the Ministry of Magic to hear the case, right? The same way Harry went to trial...

Andrew: Probably, yeah.

Eric: ...in Book Five. I mean, he says, "We're going to London to hear it," and he's wearing a suit. It just seems like it would be the same place. So it's interesting that the Ministry of Magic is not specifically mentioned by Hagrid, whereas in Book Two he's like, "Oh, not Azkaban Prison!" We know where he's going. So I don't know, it's just that he's emotional. It doesn't really matter. Hagrid actually says that Hermione has helped prepare the case for him. Ron and Harry kind of feel bad about not helping Hagrid and he actually makes them feel really bad about Hermione and about treating Hermione badly because he tells Ron that she really cares about Scabbers and everything.

Andrew: It's really cool, though, actually, seeing that Hermione helped him out. It was really nice and totally a perfect match.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: You know, Hagrid obviously isn't capable of getting that stuff together, so Hermione is sort of the lawyer for him.

Eric: It's a shame [laughs] - it's a shame they're so biased against Hagrid...

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: ...because apparently she dug through cases and found good bits in which people like Malfoy were stupid gits, and...

Andrew: Yeah, I'm sure she did a great job!

Eric: ...deserved what they got, and - yeah, I'm sure it was really cool. So actually, there's a Hogsmeade weekend coming up. They finish up with Hagrid and they find out there's a Hogsmeade weekend. This is getting into the heart of the chapter here, "Snape's Grudge". Neville - Harry says goodbye to Ron, pretends like they're not about to see each other in fifteen minutes, and Harry goes to the statue of the One-Eyed Witch, grabs his Invisibility Cloak, because he does want a little extra protection - things are kind of getting scary at Hogwarts. And lo and behold, Neville finds him and says, "Hey, Harry!" and Harry has a difficult time shaking Neville. But before he can even shake Neville, Snape finds both of them and sends them to Gryffindor Tower. So here's Harry, he wants to go to Hogsmeade to hang around, check out Zonko's for the first time, and Snape finds them right outside the One-Eyed Witch statue and he kind of lingers after Harry and Neville go up to Gryffindor Tower. He lingers around the One-Eyed Witch statue, prodding it, trying to get it to do stuff, seeing if there's any significance to where they were "meeting". He seemed to think they were "meeting". So I just thought that was interesting. Snape obviously with his bias, doesn't put anything past Harry and guesses correctly so that Harry is up to no good.

Micah: Well, he does have the ability to read minds. I mean, I think it probably extends beyond the Legilimency that we see him use against Harry in Order of the Phoenix. I think obviously, Harry would have felt the mind penetration if it was as effective as it was in Order of the Phoenix, but I still think Snape has that ability to casually read minds and to know what Harry's up to. So I think that plays a little bit of a role in it.

Eric: Yeah. Especially later when there's - I'll get into that in a minute. Harry and Ron do go to Hogsmeade, they visit the Post Office where smaller owls are labeled "Local Deliveries Only" and I just remembered, throughout the series, having smaller owls only able to travel so far, et cetera. It's beautiful that she's done this.

Andrew: That's so cute, "Local Deliveries Only." [in British accent] "This little owl can only go local!"

Eric: [laughs] Poor little owl!

Andrew: "State the zip code, please. Postal code."

Eric: Yeah, exactly. Little owls for little deliveries and big owls for transcontinental...

Andrew: I'd want a local delivery owl.

Eric: I think it's - yeah, a little one.

Andrew: Yeah. [giggles]

Eric: With tiny little...

Andrew: All right.

Eric: Yeah. They go to the Shrieking Shack, actually. Harry and Ron go to the Shrieking Shack, and we're reminded that it's the most haunted dwelling in Britain. What is J.K. Rowling - here's my note here - what is she saying about this? Because it's been hyped up that the most haunted dwelling in Britain is actually in Hogsmeade - it's the Shrieking Shack - but we know from later in the book there's actually nothing haunted about the Shrieking Shack. It's actually all a ruse that Dumbledore concocts so that Remus Lupin would have had a safe place to stay when he transformed into a werewolf. He's got the Hogwarts ghosts all talking about it, saying there's a rough crowd that lives there, which they're not lying about the Marauders, but at the same time they're really hyping this up, the Shrieking Shack. Do you guys think - what do you guys think about this? Because it's the most haunted building in Britain but it's not haunted at all.

Andrew: Well, I mean - what do you mean, what do I think of it?

Eric: I don't know, I think...

Micah: Well, it isn't the most haunted building in London. Isn't the Tower of London - or am I wrong there?

Eric: Yeah, I would say so. The dungeons of the Tower of London, I would say.

Micah: Something like that, yeah. So I don't know. It's weird to me, though, that it got passed of as the most haunted place in Britain because Lupin was only there for four years. So unless he used that as a place of refuge post-Hogwarts - I don't remember if that was the case or not, but...

Eric: That's a good point.

Micah: If it's only "haunted" for four years, that's a little difficult for me to buy into. But again, if it's one of those things where it gets passed on from generation to generation, from student to student, about how haunted it is, I'm sure Dumbledore can conjure a few spells to make it sound haunted.

Eric: To make it sound haunted?

Andrew: Yeah, that's a good point.

Eric: Well, even - I figured with Aberforth being in the Hog's Head also being on the Hogsmeade side of things to further perpetuate rumors. But like you said, they only really needed it for four years - or sorry, seven years - whenever Remus came. I think it was in his third year, so four years, yeah. Whenever he came to Hogwarts, they only needed it for four years, so perhaps they could have said about it being haunted around the time and then it could have died off. Or maybe, you know, they planted the Whomping Willow there, too, just for that particular reason. So it's very interesting to say if they ever needed it again and they have that ruse, of course. So I thought that was interesting. Now we get into the heart of the chapter which has so many subplots, I'm just going to skip right through. Malfoy shows up, he starts taunting Ron. Harry, who's still under the Invisibility Cloak, hits Malfoy with mud - it's actually described as sludge. It's green, I don't know. Hits Malfoy and Crabbe and Goyle. It's actually better in the book than it is in the movie, I think. I think in the movie, doesn't he pull their pants down or something?

Andrew: Yeah, well, it was snow, first of all. I mean, that's one of the biggest differences.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I did like the snow idea, it made it - I guess it was more visually pleasing...

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Compared to the mud, it would have just been nasty.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: So the snow was a little nice touch, I thought.

Eric: Yeah. So okay, I just have it here that basically Malfoy - I think it's Crabbe or Goyle trip over Harry and for a split second Harry's head is visible, kind of like in Book Six...

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: ...on the train. But Malfoy knows that Harry's there and immediately storms off to the castle, and the problem is that Harry has actually got to put the Cloak back on and try and get to Hogwarts before Malfoy does. The problem is that Harry is going through some underground passageway, he's very pressed for time. He has to run back, he goes through the passageway, ends up in the same hallway where Snape found him earlier. Outside the One-Eyed Witch statue, Snape finds him again at the same spot and basically it's a very tense moment because Harry knows that Malfoy has actually beaten him back to the castle and told Snape - went directly to the head of his House, Snape, who has a grudge against Harry and told him about Harry being in Hogsmeade when he shouldn't be. So this is the heart of the chapter. It's a very tense few pages in which everything relies on exactly what people say and when they say it. So Snape supposes that Harry was in Hogsmeade and he doesn't believe that Ron got his Zonko's stuff a while ago. He talks about James Potter, and this is Snape, textbook Snape - guilt, anger about James Potter and his arrogance. He actually - he does have a point here, though. Because he brings up that all these people care about Harry's safety, and he just completely ignores that. I mean, Harry's being kind of careless. Lupin lays it on a little bit heavier, but it's the same deal. It means a lot when Lupin tells it, but it doesn't mean anything when Snape's telling it to Harry because Snape is going about it the wrong way. He's saying that his father was so arrogant, et cetera, et cetera. And Harry actually brings up the story that we heard in Book 1 about how one time James Potter saved Snape's life. Unfortunately, Snape is able to turn that against Harry even further and make him feel worse, because he says that James Potter was only saving his own skin. So he's no hero, he's still the arrogant loser that everybody thought was so special but he wasn't, et cetera.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: I...

Andrew: And this is...

Eric: Harry and Snape get into it really deeply right here.

Andrew: Yeah, I Was going to say this is the first time they get into this deep sort of thing, where we're learning about Snape's interaction or relationship with James. And it was interesting, and it was also kind of sad because Harry's seeing that James wasn't this perfect person. I mean, I don't know if Harry ever saw him as a perfect person, but he did regard him highly. And here's Snape talking trash on him, and his dad can't defend himself, and he'll never hear the truth really. He may hear other stories from other people, but here's Snape who's putting a negative light on his dad, and it must suck.

Micah: It's kind of interesting to me though, too, that Snape has a problem with Harry because he sees so much of James from a negative standpoint. Sirius has that problem from a positive standpoint.

Andrew: Yeah. Good point.

Eric: That's a really good point. Sorry, I smiled.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: You don't have to be sorry.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Let's all bask in the glory of Micah's good point. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah! You're totally right. And I remember reading this for the first time, and this was the chapter - this is the chapter that's dedicated to Snape. I'm sure - was there one or two chapters already dedicated just to Snape? I mean, like "The Potions Master" in Book 1...

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: But this is "Snape's Grudge". This is...

Andrew: Yeah, this is deep Snape. This is...

Eric: Reading this, and I felt that Snape was a horrible - like a villain. Not as much as I felt about Umbridge, but I could tell that Snape - this is when I knew that, as I'm sure everybody else did, that Snape was going to be a really pivotal role, I think. Just because he and Harry directly go at it. They're like equals, even though...

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: ...Snape is the older.

Micah: But Snape behaves like a child. That's the thing.

Eric: That's true, too, but not - I think Snape has - Snape just has a way about him. Snape asks Harry to turn out his pockets, and Harry - and he finds the map, and he can't get it to read anything until he shouts at it and says, "I demand you tell me your secrets! I, Severus Snape, da da da." Okay, so the map - [laughs] - this was hilarious in the book. You guys all remember first reading this. This is unbelievable. Do you think that Snape recognizes the names, though? Because - after he can't get the map to do much, he calls Lupin. And Lupin's like, "Well, I don't know what the map is. Clearly a Zonko's product. You found it with his other stuff." And I guess - Snape reacts weirdly. Because he asks Lupin, "Do you think he got it directly from the manufacturers?" He's talking about Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs, and it's interesting because just how Snape behaves, it sounds like he recognizes that Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs were the nicknames of the Marauders. It just seems like he should know, but he kind of holds off on elaborating on whether or not they were actually - Remus was the one who actually called himself Moony. It's just so interesting because old school friends, and you've got this Marauder's Map that is in the middle of them. It's a very emotionally charged chapter to begin with, and then you have these old school memories.

Andrew: Yes. Yeah. It's very funny reading the responses too, on the map.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: [laughs] Very well written.

Eric: Yeah. So actually, Lupin - they do - Lupin's able to get Harry and Ron, with the help of Ron, out of Snape's hair for this time, but he does tell him that he's confiscating the map. He says, "I know it's a map. I know who made it. I know these people." He says they met at some point. And he says that Lupin - he says that the map was confiscated by Filch a long time ago.

Micah: But you know what? Lupin here is so full of you-know-what, because...

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: ...he knows, number one, that Sirius knows the map anyway. So it wouldn't be any sort of an aid in the hands of Sirius Black.

Eric: That's - actually, that's very true. The point from the beginning of this chapter - why hasn't Lupin told Dumbledore about all these secret passageways him and Sirius both know about - it comes to a head here, because know he's trying to make Harry feel like crap. Yet, like you say, Micah, he already knows the passageways.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: So...

Micah: So the password list is, in fact, more dangerous than the map is.

Andrew: [laughs] How ironic. [laughs]

Eric: The only thing is Harry and Ron feel horrible. Ron even tries to cheer Harry up walking up the steps, and nothing's really working. And to top it all off, they get to the top of the stairway and Hermione says that Hagrid and Buckbeak lost their trial.

Andrew: Noooooo! All right, next chapter.

Micah: Yeah. Pretty much that.

Eric: [imitating Harry] "He was their Hippogriff!"

[Andrew laughs]

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