MuggleCast | The #1 Most-Listened to Harry Potter Podcast 3

MuggleCast 198 Transcript

Show Intro

[Intro music begins]

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["Hedwig's Theme" plays]

Jim Dale: [as Professor McGonagall] This is Professor McGonagall welcoming you all to MuggleCast hoping you enjoy - Dobby! Dobby, come here! Here! Dobby! [as Dobby] Yes, I'd just like to say how very pleased I am to introduce MuggleCast to all of you! Thank you! Thank you!

[Show music begins]

Andrew: Because Micah cannot contain his excitement, this is MuggleCast Episode 198 for May 12th, 2010.

[Show music continues]

Andrew: Welcome back to the show everyone! It's Micah, Eric, Matt and I here this week. Hello, gentlemen.

Matt: Hello.

Eric: Hello.

Micah: Hello.

Andrew: And we are here to discuss Harry Potter as we have for the past five years. And we're going to go at it for another five years, and we are quickly approaching Episode 200. It's very exciting. So exciting that we only have two news stories this week.

Eric: Ooh.

Andrew: Which is amazing. Thank God we only do this every other week now, because if we did the show every week we'd have like half a news story to discuss.

Matt: Mhm.

Micah: Or none.

Andrew: Or we'd just be pulling nonsense news stories out. That's why we do it every other week now, so we give you quality news stories to discuss, each and every episode. Anyway, let's get the show started. I'm Andrew Sims.

Eric: I'm Eric Scull.

Micah: I'm Micah Tannenbaum.

Matt: And I'm Matt Britton.

[Show music continues]

Andrew: Micah Tannenbaum, what's in the news this week?

LEGO Harry Potter

Micah: Well on Tuesday I got the chance to go and check out LEGO Harry Potter: Years 1-4. There was a press event in New York City and...

Andrew: Oh, look at you.

Micah: Yeah, well you sent it to me, so...

[Eric laughs]

Micah: shouldn't be too surprised.

Andrew: Look at Micah, he gets to be press!

Micah: Press, yes.

Andrew: So, how was it?

Micah: It was a cool event that they set up there and it was at this really fancy - I don't even know what you would call it, but it was the housing for the Council on Foreign Relations...

Eric: Oh.

Micah: ...and it was a really interesting set up. They had one floor that was dedicated to LEGO Harry Potter, there was one room for - really, the kids, to go in and play the game, they could get their pictures taken. They had these life-size posters set up of LEGO Harry Potter characters and I think there was Ron, Hermione, Harry, Dumbledore, and Hagrid. Then in the other room, it was kind of the adult room, with the bar.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: [laughs] And adult LEGO figures of Ginny and Hermione and McGonagall, right?

Micah: [laughs] Yes! No.

Andrew: Was there really a bar?

Micah: Yes, there actually was a bar.

Andrew: Oh my.

Micah: And you could get alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages, depending on...

Andrew: Wow.

Micah: ...your age.

Andrew: And that was just for the LEGO Harry Potter people?

Micah: Yep.

Andrew: Geez...

Matt: Wow.

Andrew: Some party.

Matt: They go all out.

Andrew: Was there a contest to see how many drinks you could have and then properly build a LEGO set?

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Micah: No, no, that was in the kids' room and they gave them chocolate milk, so...

Andrew and Matt: Ahhh.

Micah: ..see how much chocolate milk you could drink, I guess without throwing up while building a LEGO Harry Potter set.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: So, you got to play the actual video game...

Micah: I did.

Andrew: ...which is, I think, the first time anyone's been able to play it, all complete. How is it?

Micah: It's really great. I've - obviously on this show I've trashed the EA games many, many times...

[Eric laughs]

Micah: ...because while they do have a great design team that put the games together, the gameplay is never very good. It's a little too simplistic and there's not enough for the crazed Harry Potter fan. But I think everybody will enjoy this game...

Andrew: Cool.

Micah: ...because there is just so much to do. I got a chance to speak with Arthur Parsons, he was there. If anybody has seen the videos and the vignettes, I guess you call them, that have been done on the LEGO Harry Potter site, he's the guy who kind of walks through a lot of them - a lot of the creative end of things. And he was there, he was kind of the one person that Warner Bros. had brought along for the media to speak with and the sites to speak with. You could tell how passionate he was about this game. He was the lead, and he wanted to show literally everything that they created. He did this special cheat code that brought up all the different levels and places that you could go to, Years 1, Years 2, Years 3, Years 4. It was just unbelievable the amount of stuff they had created in this game. And really this game in particular is much more close to the books and the story that takes place in the books as opposed to the movies, which we know that's where the EA games are based on.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Mhm.

Micah: So, I think you get over 140 playable characters. I mean when I was there playing the game - just in Year 1 I played as Harry, Ron, Hermione, Scabbers, Hagrid...

Andrew: Cool, cool.

Eric: Scabbers?

Micah: Scabbers, yes, you do need Scabbers at times in this game. You have to change, it's not just a matter of being able to use Harry. You have to use these other characters because only their abilities will allow you to get through different stages of the games, so I thought that that was really cool and we got to see a lot of different areas. Warner Bros. was really hesitant about this guy showing us too much, especially with...

Andrew: Really?

Micah: ...Goblet of Fire, because that hasn't been really displayed yet to...

Andrew: Oh brother!

Micah: As you can see they've been releasing things in stages to kind of build up momentum into this game, but we didn't get to see anything Goblet of Fire-related other than Mad-Eye Moody walking randomly around Diagon Alley.

Eric: Did they comment on the delay at all and is that why - to sort of give this game the proper marketing, is that why the game was delayed a month?

Micah: You know, I didn't ask them about that. The game will obviously be released at the end of June, I'm not going to say what date yet because they haven't officially released that, I mean I can obviously tell you guys what date but I can't say on air what the date is...

Andrew: Micah was too busy at the bar to be asking the proper questions...

Micah: [laughs] Yeah, exactly.

Eric: I was going to say, did you write down those cheat codes?

Andrew: Micah, did you even play this game or were you just watching someone from your barstool?

Micah: [laughs] Ah, you caught me. No, what was cool was watching Arthur go through and you could tell he must have played this game thousands of times by now...

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Micah: ...just how he was able to do everything. Because every time a new group would come over from the press he would explain really from the beginning but I think what makes this game so unique though is that it's so true to the books but it's so funny, there's these cutscenes that are, for example - and Eric, you've played these LEGO Harry Potter games before - what's kind of the command center of things like the Cantina in Star Wars, they talked about also the bat cave in Batman, and this will be done in Diagon Alley...

Eric: Oh awesome!

Micah: ...that's going to be the command center. And one of the main areas is Madam Malkin's, so you can go in and - talking about humor, if you accidentally go into the wrong dressing room, you see a wizard in the middle of changing. They've - just the humor that they've built into this. Like I said, there's a number of cutscenes that we saw at the beginning that - just very, very true to the books, but also there's just endless amounts of comedy, and I think that's what LEGO has been able to do that makes it so much different. We got to see a couple of different areas of the world. I mean, the forest, we got to see Hufflepuff's common room, which was never in the books, but they built with approval from J.K. Rowling.

Eric: We talked about this, Micah. You said that they had already coded in, sort of the other common rooms as part of the gameplay, so they decided to go ahead and do the Hufflepuff one?

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: How did that work, did they say?

Micah: Yeah well, they - as you said, they had built in all these common rooms because I guess there's tasks in each that you associate with them, and they felt as if they couldn't leave out one of the Houses, so they went ahead and they built Hufflepuff's common room. It has in it things that would be specific to that House. So, because Professor Sprout is the Head of House, they have a lot of Herbology that is taking place in those rooms and...

Eric: That's awesome.

Micah: ...also a lot of food-related stuff because I guess Helga Hufflepuff was a big-time cook. That's why they were so close to the kitchen, but...

Andrew: All right.

Micah: Yeah, I mean - go out and buy it.

Andrew: All right. Calm down, Micah, geez.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Micah's so excited. I've never seen him so excited about something. He texted me after he got out of the event. He couldn't stop talking about it. He was like, "You will not be able to put this game down."

Micah: Well, you won't!

Andrew: "It is a game-changer."

Micah: They said - Arthur said that for people who know how to play this game, the people that have spent all this time making it - from start to finish, it will take them 30 hours to complete it.

Andrew and

Eric: 30?

Micah: 30 hours.

Eric: 30?

Andrew: I don't have that kind of time!

Micah: Sure you do.

Andrew: Micah, play it for me. Let me know how it is.

Micah: Okay, I will. [laughs] But that's somebody who knows what they're doing.

Andrew: Yeah, so it'll take longer for an average person, right?

Micah: Right, and that's just walking through the storyline. There's obviously a lot of other stops...

Eric: There are always collectibles.

Micah: ...adventures.

Eric: There are always awards. Yeah.

Andrew: Cool. Well, we reported the game would be out end of June. That date came out a couple of weeks ago. Micah cannot confirm or deny at this time, but...

Micah: Well, yes, it will be out at the end of June, I just can't say what day.

Andrew: Oh, I see. Okay. [laughs]

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: So look for it at the end of June. What else is going on in the news, Micah?

Ultimate Edition DVD Release Dates

Micah: Well, we - speaking of release dates - for Prisoner of Azkaban and Goblet of Fire Ultimate Editions...

Andrew: Yes?

Micah: They may be out, according to the Germans, on...

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Do we trust the Germans, Micah?

Micah: ...November the 25th. I don't know, they always seem to be one step ahead of the game. They're the ones who always put these release dates out. I think they did it for the LEGO video game too, didn't they?

Andrew: Maybe - well, the release dates were posted on Amazon Germany, and they're not posted on the U.S. Amazon site yet, but I think it's pretty reliable. It makes sense because Deathly Hallows: Part I comes out November 19th, so the DVDs coming out the following Tuesday would make a lot of sense.

Micah: Right.

Andrew: I assume that's a Tuesday.

Matt: Well, the Germans have said it, you know.

[Micah laughs]

Matt: They're responsible for all the prophecies that've happened in the past few decades.

Andrew: That's actually a Thursday, so it may come out here - it may come out in the U.S. on November 23rd, because that would be the Tuesday following the movie release.

Matt: Oh.

Andrew: But it makes sense. They want to release these DVDs when Harry is hot. They released Sorcerer's Stone and Chamber of Secrets Ultimate Editions with the Half-Blood Prince DVD. So, this makes sense. If I - I'll put my money down on this release date.

Micah: All right.

Andrew: If I was a betting man. I don't know for sure. Just saying.

Micah: I mean, there's really not much more to say about that. It's just that we have a tentative date.

Andrew: Right. Start saving now. They'll be 30 bucks a piece - around that.

Matt: I'm excited for the extra features, though. I mean, the first two were awesome.

Andrew: Yeah, they're really nice sets. They really are, and I can't wait to have a complete collection - all those. Like I said when we were talking about the Sorcerer's Stone and Chamber of Secrets ones, I can't wait to have them all on my shelf next to my book collection. Ah.

Eric: It'll look nice, but it's like twice as many movies as you need, because each set contains a Blu-ray and a DVD version of the film.

Andrew: No, no, no - it's just - no - it's one or the other.

Eric: Oh - or - but the extended version is on a separate disc.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. So you get four discs per film.

Eric: Yeah, yeah. It's kind of ridiculous.

Andrew: It's a lot, but...

Eric: Too much plastic.

Andrew: [laughs] Too much plastic.

Eric: It's a waste of plastic. The environment is dying...

Andrew: All right, well...

Eric: ...from making these Harry Potter sets.

MuggleCast Remix

Andrew: Like we said, it was a short, short - it was a slow couple of news weeks, so we will move on now. We have an update about the MuggleCast remix. Eric, how is that going?

Eric: Oh, it's going well, man. I - if it was any indication after the first week or two that I said, "send in your clips," it was actually just that everybody was busy. I have over now almost 200 clips that people have sent in.

Andrew: Wow! Great. Thank you, everyone who contributed.

Eric: Yeah, 200 clips. Thank you to everybody. A lot of these people just actually sat down and went through five or six episodes and sent in 20 to 25 suggestions. Unbelievable! So, over the next week weeks - by the way, suggestions are closed, I'm going to say.

Andrew: [laughs] You have enough.

Eric: If you happen to e-mail me with one, fine, but yeah, suggestions are closed, and the only other thing I had to say was I may be looking for a detective - a clip detective, if anybody is interested - just to apply, simply because all these clips - they're all good and nice, they may all be just funny moments and if I need something that transitions, I might be looking for something like that. So I may ask this "clip detective" to go find a moment where Ben says something like, "Okay, here we go now, to this." Which he would say...

Andrew: Oh, I see. Dun-duh-dun-dun.

Matt: It's like a mystery.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: And I'm sure the Mugglecast transcripts would be able to help you find that, too.

Eric: Exactly, I know. It's just me getting out of doing work.

Andrew: Oh, I know. I know.

Eric: Any applicants - but you guys heard a little preview. What can you say about the preview that you guys heard?

Andrew: Yeah, you sent us a sample. It sounds really good. I can't wait to have the whole thing. I'm going to submit it to some dance clubs, hoping that they will play it.

Eric: That's what you said. You were like, "I can't wait to hear everything after the first 69 seconds." I said, "Oh my god, that's awesome!"

Matt: Oh my god, they should play it at Infinitus!

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Polka ball.

Eric: They should, they should. They could play both of them, and we could dance to it.

Chapter-by-Chapter: "The Dementor's Kiss"

Andrew: Oh geez. [laughs]. Okay, now it's time for the final Chapter-by-Chapter segment for Prisoner of Azkaban. Today we're looking at the final three chapters of the book. It's an exciting conclusion. This was a wonderful book. It's been a great time doing Chapter-by-Chapter for this book. So let's wrap it up. We'll start with Chapter 20, "The Dementor's Kiss". Micah, take it away.

Micah: So I have to be as enthusiastic about this chapter as the LEGO game, I guess?

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Eric: Keep it up, Micah, keep it up.

Micah: [laughs] Well, the chapter starts with them all exiting the Shrieking Shack, and it said that, "Harry had never been part of a stranger group," and this made me think a little bit about the movie. They could have done a little bit more with this scene in particular.

Andrew: It could have been funny.

Micah: It could have been funny. Because you have Sirius, who's in control of Snape and kind of lets Snape bob along and smack his head on the ceiling and be ignorant to what's going on. And I thought maybe they could have done something a little bit more with that, considering how much of the story they had already cut out. What do you guys think?

Andrew: Yeah, I agree. Although, it would have been a sort of strange departure from the mood in the film at that time, I think. So maybe that was the reasoning for it. But yeah, it would have been funny. Poor Harry, always with strange groups of kids. I don't think this was the strangest...

Eric: [laughs] Oh it's...

Andrew: I mean, I guess it was, if you think about it. There was a cat and Snape, all passed out.

Eric: Half of them could turn into an animal.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Yeah.

Matt: The rag-tag trio.

Micah: Actually, speaking about this, one thing I left out of the LEGO discussion before...

Andrew: Oh geez.

Micah: ...that's funny though, is that - incorporating the actual LEGO side of it into the game - is you have to build this massive mouse trap in the Shrieking Shack in order to capture Peter Pettigrew...

[Andrew and Matt laugh]

Eric: Oh, that's cool.

Micah: that he doesn't escape.

[Eric and Matt Laugh]

Andrew: That's very cool.

Matt: You're saying it's massive, how big is this thing?

Micah: What thing? The game?

Matt: The trap.

Micah: Oh.

Matt: You said "this massive trap."

Micah: Yeah, I guess it's got to be pretty big.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: I don't know.

Matt: I'm thinking of that board game Mouse Trap...

Micah: Oh yeah.

Matt: Did you guys ever play that as a kid?

Andrew: Mhm.

Matt: I'm just thinking of that, going around the Shrieking Shack.

Andrew: They should have made - why don't they make a Harry Potter version of that game? They have Harry Potter - well, I guess they don't have Harry Potter Clue or Monopoly, do they? They should have done that - marketing potential! All right, go ahead.

Eric: Well, hopefully for all the movie lacks, the H.P. LEGO game will pick up.

[Micah Laughs]

Andrew: Right.

Micah: I'm just going to keep throwing LEGO anecdotes out there as we go through.

Matt: Every two minutes Micah is like, "It's interesting on the LEGO, the game actually did this."

Micah: Yeah, exactly. So while they are in the passageway and Snape keeps smacking his head on the ceiling, Sirius tells Harry about being his godfather, which Harry obviously already knew, and that he is welcome to come live with him, once Sirius's name is cleared. And I was wondering, does Harry overreact a bit here? I mean, I know he is excited to possibly leave the Dursleys, but he still doesn't know a whole lot about Sirius.

Andrew: Well, I think he was just very excited to see that he finally has a family member outside the Dursleys and hear that he doesn't have to be - his perspective is that anything is better than staying with the Dursleys. So the fact that he now has this brand new family member, and this family member has offered a place to stay, I think that's really exciting - I mean I understand it. Especially since...

Micah: He's still young - it's kind of a young kid's reaction.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. But still, he has been with the Dursleys all his life, and finally he has gotten an offer to stay somewhere else that isn't the Dursleys and it's a family member, so I understand.

Eric: Yeah, and asking that question, I just remembered all that protection that's on Privet Drive. Do you think Dumbledore would have let - even if Sirius's name is cleared, do you really think after all that magical protection, that's actually going to keep out Voldemort. Voldemort is at full power in Book 7 and he still can't penetrate Privet Drive until Harry comes of age. So do you really think Dumbledore would have let - I mean Sirius would have had to move to Privet Drive. He would have been next door neighbors with the Dursleys.

Micah: That would have been interesting. Privet Drive also featured in LEGO Harry Potter video game.

[Eric sighs]

Micah: But anyway, J.K. Rowling here describes Sirius. She says that his face broke into the first true smile Harry had seen upon it, and the difference was startling "as though a person ten years younger were shining through the starved mask". So it just describes how completely emaciated Sirius is, how gaunt he is, and less than human almost. I don't know, it was probably pretty creepy to see someone like that smiling.

[Everyone laughs]

[Andrew makes creepy sounds]

Matt: People shouldn't smile Micah, it's creepy.

Eric: Unless they have the new HP LEGO game, then they should smile.

Micah: Yes.

Matt: Does Sirius actually smile in the LEGO game?

Micah: I don't know.

Andrew: All right, this...

[Matt and Micah laugh]

Andrew: Enough of the LEGO game.

Micah: So they get out of the Whomping Willow and...

Andrew: This isn't "Brick-by-Brick"! [laughs mockingly]

Micah: Oh geez.

Andrew: Okay.

Micah: So once they exit, the clouds overhead shift and the moon is revealed. And Hermione, who is always up on things, notes that Lupin did not take his potion.

Andrew: Mmm.

Micah: Now here's where I came up with a couple of issues, and I think we mentioned it a little bit in the show last week. I took two quotes, one that says from Lupin: "As long as I take it in the week preceding the full moon, I keep my mind when I transform." Now the second quote is from Snape, which was just the previous chapter in the Shrieking Shack: "I've just been to your office, Lupin. You forgot to take your potion tonight, so I took a gobletful along. And very lucky I did." So if he was taking the potion, it should been the week prior to the full moon and he shouldn't have transformed. Right?

Eric: Yeah, that's Lupin's fault. If Lupin is transforming tonight, the night of the full moon, that's because he didn't take his potion last week, according to what Lupin said previously. This seems like an even bigger error the more times we mention it and now that Micah pulled it out, it looks really big. It looks bad.

Matt: Do you think there may have been a reason why he didn't take it?

Micah: My point is, there seems to be an error in the writing, because he says he's supposed to take the potion preceding the full moon. And Snape is saying that he found the potion on Lupin's desk. So this should be taking place the week preceding a full moon.

Eric: Yeah, we're supposed to believe that Lupin was reading the Marauder's Map, he saw something exciting. Not thinking, he jumped up and left his office without taking his potion. But the potion is - there's a time frame and he's supposed to keep his own head so Lupin should have been taking the potion last week and he should still be able control himself even if he does transform this week.

Micah: Right. Or what I'm saying is that it's not written the right way. You know what I mean? Technically speaking, it's not supposed to be a full moon if he's taking his potion. It's supposed to be the week before the full moon, based on what Lupin has told us.

Andrew: I don't know. This is very technical, Micah.

Micah: Well, it's a technicality but it shouldn't be a full moon is my point. When the clouds...

Eric: Yeah, it's a pretty big mistake for Jo to make in a three-page long chapter.

Micah: Yeah, well...

Andrew: Well, if anyone has any theories, feel free to write in what the - ideas about that. I'm sure people have some theories.

Micah: Yeah, but to what Matt said, though - why wouldn't he take it? Why wouldn't he just gulp it down before he left his office, or even take it before leaving the Shrieking Shack because Snape said he brought it with him?

Eric: Mhm.

Andrew: But would he want to give in to Snape, so to speak?

Eric: He has no choice.

Matt: Well, I think he trusts Snape. Yeah, he has no choice.

Andrew: Well, he did apparently.

[Andrew laughs]

Matt: Because he's making the potions for him.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: And they have worked in the past.

Eric: Maybe Snape spilled the potion when he was pushed backwards and knocked out.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: That's a big risk to take, though if you're not trusting Snape and decide not to take the potion because now you're risking turning into a werewolf.

Micah: So the transformation occurs and then Sirius - he ends up protecting Harry and Hermione when Lupin changes into a werewolf. And it's actually Snape in the movie that kind of throws himself in front. And I was just kind of wondering why you guys thought Snape...

Eric: In the movie is Snape knocked out that whole time until then?

Micah: Yeah, he wakes up.

Eric: Or does Snape get knocked out at all?

Andrew: Pretty much as soon as he walks in, he's stunned.

Eric: Yeah, I was debating whether or not movie Snape knew about Pettigrew being alive.

Micah: Well it's - the scene that takes place is Snape kind of wanders into the midst of the fight. Sirius is already transformed and he's fighting with Lupin and Snape steps in front and then Harry goes and runs after them and Snape yells at him to come back. But it's almost out of character for them to use Snape like that.

Matt: Right. Well, do we really know how long Snape has been unconscious during this whole fight?

Eric: In the book we're meant to believe that he was unconscious pretty much the whole time, from before Pettigrew was transformed from Ron's rat to the point where after Pettigrew had escaped. And the reason is then he has deniability and he can continue going on what he does and say that the kids are making stories up.

Micah: Right. So this fight takes place and Eric, you had something you wanted to bring up?

Eric: Yeah, I'm doing this literature class in college and we're just talking about different grammatical styles that authors use and I wanted to mention the change in the use of the possessive here. This is a very terrifying chapter, and I'll get into that a little later, but there's just two paragraphs here when Lupin is transforming. The first one is, "There was a terrible [snarling] noise. Lupin's head was lengthening. So was his body. His shoulders were hunching. Hair was sprouting visibly on his face and hands which were turning into clawed paws." And the next paragraph is, "As the werewolf reared, snapping its long jaws, Sirius disappeared from Harry's sight." So it's the change in - you know, Lupin is becoming a werewolf, and it's Lupin's hands that are growing hair and then all of the sudden it's "the werewolf's long jaws" that are - it's just the change of the possessive and I picked that up and I thought it's really cool and it's also a technique that's good for, you know, emphasizing that the teacher that we've all known is now a werewolf.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: It's not Lupin. It's not like he can control himself anymore.

Andrew: Right, it gives us a good - it sort of distances the personal connection.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: We don't really know this thing anymore; it's just "the werewolf".

Eric: All because of - yeah.

Andrew: It's like instead of saying "in the name of someone", you just say "the boy". "Look at that boy."

Eric: Exactly, exactly. And the other thing about this transformation that I wanted to mention was that Crookshanks's hair was on end again and Crookshanks was backing away from Lupin. And this is Crookshanks - this is the cat that would just jump on Ron's head for no reason and he's not scared of anything. He's consorting with Sirius, but when confronted by the werewolf, Crookshanks is backing away. And that's also mentioned in this paragraph, so we're just meant to feel the dread that she's trying to convey in this section here where he's transforming.

Micah: So during this whole scramble, Pettigrew is able to get hold of Lupin's wand, transform, and escape. So Professor Trelawney's prediction comes true yet again that servant and master will eventually be reunited. But again, there had to be ways around preventing this whole thing from happening. I mean, you could have sent for Dumbledore, you could have used a more powerful spell on Pettigrew. Look at Snape - he's just bouncing up and down in the air. They could have done something to Pettigrew so that he would have been completely knocked out.

Matt: Right.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: So just a little bit of a lack of decision making there on their end.

Andrew: Well, this goes back to my whole thing on the last Chapter-By-Chapter segment about it being Harry's decision to save Pettigrew's life. Ultimately it does help them in that Pettigrew is now in debt to Harry, but I think it was just a stupid decision by Lupin and Sirius. They should have decided to overrule Harry and just kill him, because of course this sort of thing was going to happen. Of course Pettigrew was going to try to get away.

Matt: Right.

Eric: Well, they should have kept him alive, though. They shouldn't have killed him because I think Pettigrew alive is ultimately more useful for everybody, even Remus and Sirius. They should have thrown a few Crucio's there to cripple him or make him more immobile like you guys are saying. Even a Petrificus Totalus Maximus so that if something does go wrong he'll be laying like a log on the ground for a few hours. They should have done that instead of just tying him up.

Matt: Right.

Eric: I think everybody here is just feeling a mix of emotions. They had just gotten over this whole explanation and nobody is thinking properly, but that is a big flaw, a big mistake.

Micah: Yeah. In the process of all this Pettigrew knocks out Ron and both Harry and Hermione are willing to leave him with a powerless Snape when they hear Sirius yelping. Sirius has obviously been injured by Lupin. And I thought this was kind of irresponsible. What if Lupin came back? This is a complete reversal of thought from when Sirius told them to leave earlier and Harry wanted to stay because Ron was chained to Pettigrew and he didn't want to leave his best friend, but he's more than willing to leave him alone with a knocked out professor and the chance of a werewolf returning. I mean - what do you guys think?

Eric: Yeah, as far as the werewolf returning - that's a good point. But in the book it's just that Harry and Hermione look at each other and they seem to unanimously decide - I think it's Harry that says, "There's nothing we can do for Ron at this point," and that's why they go off - because Sirius is now their best friend, they want to help their best friend, yet they do leave Ron behind. I think they just say, "there's nothing we can do for him," but you're very right. Its a very real danger that the werewolf could have come back their way - doubled back and then would have feasted on Snape and Ron. That's potentially flawed there.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, I mean it is risky. It would have been interesting...

Eric: But what are they going to do? If they have any ability - any way to help who's currently being attacked by the werewolf...

Andrew: Well, they could have called for help and asked somebody to go pick up Ron.

Eric: Here's a question. Here's a question. When they find Sirius, he has bite marks on him. So do you think that Sirius is now an Animagus dog who turns into a werewolf?

Andrew: [laughs] What?

Matt: Well...

Eric: Like, do you think he should have been - he's been bitten by the werewolf. So what do you think?

Andrew: He's a double Animagus. He's an An-Animagus.

Matt: But, he was in dog form, and isn't it true that when a werewolf bites an animal or something, it has no effect on them?

Eric: Oh, you're right.

Micah: Yeah, I think you're right, Matt.

Andrew: Oh, darn. So close to an An-Animagus.

Micah: But they do find Sirius and the Dementors attack. And Harry kind of goes through this whole process of not even originally paying attention to them. He just kind of throws caution to the wind and he doesn't realize that it's getting colder and that the Dementors are there, but then, of course, they attack and Harry fails multiple times to do the Expecto Patronum and Hermione is even more useless. I mean, [laughs] for the one...

Eric: She tries.

Micah: She does try, but for the one time - really since the series has started - where we are in the series - she's really just not of any use whatsoever.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: You're right. She's not.

Micah: And that's different.

Andrew: Well, it's about time.

[Everyone laughs]

Matt: It's about time I say that Hermione's completely useless.

Micah: So these Dementors - they look to perform the kiss on both Sirius and Harry, but then a Patronus rumbles across the lake and makes them fly away. And you just get a little bit more of a description on these Dementors and how vile and disgusting they are. When the attempted kiss on Harry happens, it's described as these cold clammy hands being around his neck, "He could feel it's putrid breath." And kind of even worse is he talks about how the screaming of his mother would be the last thing he ever heard.

Eric: That came very close to the very last thing he did ever really did ever hear as a child when Voldemort was attacking.

Micah: On multiple occasions.

Eric: Yeah, so I just think this is why - it is a very short chapter, it's only a few pages long. In reading this, it was so satisfying and so terrifying because previously she describes Lupin's transformation a page ago and now we're actually seeing a Dementor about to give Harry the Dementor's kiss and the descriptors that she uses - the clammy hands and the breath. Its eyes are being described as being scabbed over - incredibly scary, just incredibly scary and there are all these scary moments in this chapter where it's very tense. It's very ominous and it's very tense very quickly.

Micah: Well, you could have the whole discussion here - had the kiss actually occurred, what would have happened to the Horcrux?

Eric: That was in Harry?

Andrew: Yeah, you know what? Somebody actually e-mailed in about this. Somebody I've been talking to recently asked me that same question and she wanted us to bring that up this week. It's funny you mentioned that.

Eric: Well, a Dementor's kiss specifically sucks out a soul, right? So is the question if it sucked out Harry's soul, would it suck out Harry's soul or the piece of Voldemort's soul that's in Harry?

Andrew: Yeah, this girl I'm referring to, Samantha, she asked, "If the Dementors gave Harry the kiss would it suck out Harry's soul and leave Voldy's or suck out both or take only Voldy's? If it took Harry's and left Voldy's, would Harry turn into another Voldemort or just be an empty Horcrux shell? I thought I could use another opinion - " blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...

Matt: Well, what if it was just a little kiss? Wouldn't that just suck out just the Voldemort part?

[Eric laughs]

Matt: Just a little tap on the cheek or something.

Eric: A little peck.

Andrew: A little love tap.

Matt: Just a little bit, just to take the edge off of Harry.

Eric: [laughs] "The edge off."

Micah: [laughs] From the sound of things here though, it sounds like it would have been Harry's soul.

Andrew: Yeah, I think so too. I mean, he would lose it.

Eric: Yeah, the soul that inhabits his body.

Matt: The Dementor's kiss basically leaves you with nothing, so it would take both.

Eric: Was it that Harry's scar was a Horcrux or was it Harry himself because - this is another reason I always hated the Harry is a Horcrux thing.

Matt: I think its Harry himself because the scar is still there.

Eric: So then, what is - why is - exactly. So, why is Harry - would it have sucked out both of them then? And - I just think - regardless, I think Voldemort's soul would have been floating somewhere inside a Dementor and that is - that is something you don't want because who's going to go into a den of Dementors and look for the Dementor with Voldemort's soul?

Matt: What would happen to the Dementor when it sucks Voldemort's soul?

Eric: Then again, maybe if Dementors, after they suck out somebody's soul, they digest it. Maybe someone's soul is no more. So using a Dementor to get rid of a Horcrux might be effective.

Matt: That's heavy.

Micah: Yeah. So...

Matt: That's deep.

Micah: [laughs] Just to wrap up the chapter - Harry thinks before he collapses that he sees someone all too familiar on the other side of the lake and I remember when I first read this book, I thought that it was quite possible that Harry's father was alive.

Andrew: Mmm.

Micah: And I was wondering did any of you other guys think this? I mean they don't say specifically that it's Harry's father but I think you can kind of figure that out what happens.

Matt: Mhm.

Andrew: Well, Harry later says it. So...

Eric: Yeah. Well, when - and Jo plays with it too. She's like - she says something along - I forget if it's in this chapter or the next one where she's like, "Is it possible that all four of the Marauders have rode again tonight on the Hogwarts grounds?" It really gets you to think, you know, what do you know about the past and could Harry's father be alive and I think it's definitely a possiblity. She's toying with it.

Matt: Mhm.

Andrew: Yeah and she has Harry go like, "It was hard to make out, but I think it was." So I thought it was interesting. I think I believed it could have been too. I mean that would have been an amazing twist to see that one of Harry's parents is indeed alive.

Matt: Mhm.

Andrew: But you know it all comes around when he realizes it was actually himself.

Matt: Right and there wasn't much space in between to really think about it too. I mean, it was pretty much proven in less than a chapter that it was actually Harry.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, but it's just something that she does. I remember back then, I was a big subscriber, actually, to a theory that - it actually came out later - but it was that, as of this point in the series, I think it was speculated that Remus and James may have switched bodies, like using like a switching spell or whatever and so that it was actually James Potter that had been mentoring Harry all year, and that Remus was killed with Lily. It was very interesting at the time because there were some evidences, like just little - in the text. It's a great theory, the Remus and James theory but - anything was possible and we're going back to this innocent time in the series where Jo is playing with this. Where she's like, "Could Harry's father have really been alive," and it's just - it's a great place to be when reading these books.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Because it's...

Micah: Well, the other thing though is that we didn't know about Hermione at this point. Obviously, we learn about it in the next chapter but that's what made it seem like such a possibility. You didn't realize that you were about to go back in time.

Eric: Yeah.

Matt: Right.

Eric: Absolutely. And...

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#244 (November 20th, 2011): For the first time ever, MuggleCast has a DVD commentary! Watch Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part 2 on DVD with us. We'll comment on each and every scene - it's as if we're in your living room watching alongside you!

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