MuggleCast | The #1 Most-Listened to Harry Potter Podcast 3

MuggleCast 198 Transcript (continued)

Chapter-by-Chapter: "Hermione's Secret"

Andrew: Well, speaking of that, let's get into the next chapter, Chapter 21, "Hermione's Secret."

Eric: Well, the last - the previous chapter, Chapter 20, ends, again, in a very scary spot. Harry passes out and Sirius is next to him, passed out, and Hermione is passed out. Everybody is passed out on the bank of a river. The Dementors may be gone, the threat of the Dementors may be gone, but you just don't know what's going to happen. And so the opening, then, of Chapter 21 in the first two lines, Jo answers the question, and it's in the form of quotes. [laughs] Here are the first two lines of Chapter 21: "Shocking business ... shocking ... miracle none of them died ... never heard the like ... by thunder, it was lucky you were there, Snape ..." Snape says, "Thank you, Minister." [laughs] And I just gotta say, reading this after reading the previous chapter, the first two lines, you just think, Oh no. What - what could have happened? Because Snape is - the Minister of Magic is there and Snape is being commended. You just know something bad is up. And...

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: the next few lines, Snape goes on to say that Sirius Black had Confunded the trio and that all sorts of - all sorts of bad - you know, wrongs that happened, and we find out that Sirius is about to die or get his soul sucked out, and Snape is basically the leading force in doing that. So Snape has taken all the credit and may even be getting an Order of Merlin. What do you guys think of Snape's methods here, because he's - he's really not a good guy at this point.

Andrew: Yeah. I mean - and when we later see Snape react negatively when he finds out that Snape - that Sirius escaped, he's, as I mentioned in our upcoming segment, he's the worst we've ever seen him. He's so angry. I don't think we've ever seen him that angry.

Matt: Yeah.

Andrew: He just so bad wants to get revenge.

Matt: He's clouded by it, really. I mean, he doesn't really even think straight, especially when Sirius escapes.

Andrew: And to hear that he's receiving - he could receive an Order of Merlin, First Class, for getting his revenge, that just must thrill him.

Micah: But at the same time, he saves their butts - Harry, Ron, and Hermione, if you think about it. Well, he's obviously not telling the truth relating to Sirius but those kids could have been in a lot of trouble for what they did, and Snape is kind of giving them an out by saying they got Confunded.

Matt: Yeah, but it's also easier because that would make him the only conscious one in the entire group, so that would - that would lead everyone to believe that only Sirius - or only Snape's word is correct.

Eric: I just - so Harry wakes up, and he - this is - I marked this as his first real confrontation with authority. "Minister, listen!" he says. "Sirius Black's innocent! Peter Pettigrew faked his own death! We saw him tonight! You can't let the Dementors do that thing to Sirius." And it says, "But Fudge was shaking his head with a small smile on his face. "Harry, Harry, you're very confused. You've been through a dreadful ideal. Lie back down, now. We've got everything under control." Harry shouts, "You haven't! You've got the wrong man!'" Da la la la la. So Snape is just a driving force. He tells Fudge, "Oh, they're Confunded. You see, Minister, they are totally out of their minds." And this makes it worse. I think re-reading this, Snape is my least favorite character in the entire series...

[Matt laughs]

Eric: of a result of his actions here. Because if you think about it...

[Micah laughs]

Micah: What about Fudge?

Eric: No, no not Fudge, Fudge is...

Andrew: Fudge is an idiot.

Micah: He is.

Eric: Fudge is reliably Fudge, he is. He's just, he's just incompetent, there's no changing that. But Snape has an oppurtunity because at this point, Pettigrew is off to find Voldemort and basically it's Snape's inaction at this point in the series that directly leads to Voldemort's uprising. And maybe I have covered this in two or three points here, but I basically say that Snape - we can fault Snape for this because it's his - because at this point the Ministry could have searched for Pettigrew. If Snape had said, "Look Minister, there's a very real possibility that Pettigrew is still alive!" That would have changed the entire series and Voldemort would not have come back to power. But because Snape is going to suck out the soul of the only man who can prove that Pettigrew is still alive, possibly, because this whole time there is no proof, there is no proof of anything. Dumbledore...

Andrew: But as Dumbledore...

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah but as Dumbledore mentions, it's hard to believe thirteen-year-old wizards, and I think I do sort of agree with that. Now granted, Snape is - I mean, do you think Snape actually believes they've been Confunded?

Eric: [sighs] It's a question. The difference is that in the book he hasn't seen Pettigrew...

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: ...which actually lends some credibility to behaving the way he is. - is that he's been out of it and they've used that head bonking spell on him. I just don't know. But the point is, Snape is behaving just so - he just wants Sirius Black's soul to be sucked out as vengeance for that childhood prank. And instead of telling the Ministry that they have a problem and that they need to find Pettigrew before something bad happens.

Matt: And honestly Fudge is really excited to get the whole Sirius Black situation over with...

Eric: Yeah.

Matt: ...that he is ready to believe any story...

Eric: Yeah. Absolutely and that's manipulating Fudge too. Snape is accepting this award for it, and in return, freeing Fudge of this year-long crisis.

Micah: Do you think it's just the childhood grudge? Because a lot of people wrote in these last two weeks saying that it's more to do with Lily and that Snape holds responsible for Lily's death, and that's why he's so adamant about making sure that he ends up in Azkaban or gets killed.

Matt: Hmmm.

Eric: If that's true it makes it a good idea. But it makes it even worse that he didn't stay to listen about the Pettigrew thing, because...

Matt: No.

Eric: Because if Pettigrew were actually the secret-keeper, he has no reason to be upset for Lily and that plus he - didn't Snape ask Voldemort specifically not to kill Lily? So the only person he should blame for Lily's death is Voldemort. For killing her anyway. Because he was prepared, at Snape's request to let her live, the only thing is she wouldn't stand aside so she did have to kill her. Like that's nobody's fault. He shouldn't fault anybody for that. There's a - okay, just as I'm about to cry, Dumbledore arrives. [sniffs] Which is cool. He's already been to see Sirius Black so he's kind of got a story from Sirius and I just remarked that it was really good that Dumbledore came so quickly to - by the time we see him, he's already spoken with Sirius so he's taking charge here, he's not letting - in contrast to Book 4 where they're able to suck out Barty Crouch Jr.'s soul before anybody sees anybody. There's obviously a lot more going on because of Voldemort's actual uprising. But this time he's been to see Sirius and there's a great Snape/Dumbledore moment where Dumbledore asked to speak to the trio alone because they're getting nowhere and trying to convince the Minister, and Snape says to him, "Sirius Black showed he was capable of murder at sixteen, you haven't forgotten that, Headmaster. You haven't forgotten that he once tried to kill me." And Snape is taking this very personally and Dumbledore simply says, "My memory is as good as it ever was." Now I just wrote here that Snape has actually reason now to feel personally affronted that Dumbledore doesn't care for Snape's life or failed murder attempt by Sirius. Basically Dumbledore's more interested in protecting Sirius at the moment, than avenging Snape's. Basically than righting a wrong and I think Snape - it's very personal here between Snape and Dumbledore. And it's just very interesting because Snape and Dumbledore eventually make the decision to kill Dumbledore in Book 6 so they have a long and storied history obviously, even by this point. It's just so interesting to read Snape and Dumbledore. What were you guys thinking when you were reading this scene with Dumbledore and Snape?

Micah: He sounds like a baby. He's a man. Grow up.

Andrew: Yeah. [whines] "You sure I don't believe a word of Black's story!"

Micah: Yeah exactly. I mean, c'mon man.

Matt: Well he obviously feels the guilt towards it because he knows how smart Dumbledore is. So I bet he's basically trying to pull anything out of his rear end at the moment, just to make sure Dumbledore's on his side.

Andrew: He's trying to fight a losing battle.

Matt: Right.

Andrew: He's talking desperate like this because he knows that if he wants to talk privately to Harry and Hermione, then he must have his suspicions about Snape's argument.

Matt: He's like, "Oh God, Dumbledore's here. Look, I'm sorry! I swear to God, it's me that's the good one."

Eric: It's just so - Snape, reading this, Snape talking to Dumbledore, he talks to Dumbledore like Harry talks to Dumbledore. Like he's a pupil. Like no one can possibly match Dumbledore's power.

Matt: Mhm.

Eric: And he's begging him to see his way. Okay, so here's Dumbledore's strategy. He informs Harry and Hermione that they are Sirius' only hope. He says nobody will believe them. They say there's Lupin. He says Lupin is busy digesting Crookshanks somewhere, and is AFK, BBL, TTY. Then Dumbledore says something interesting. He says that he himself gave evidence to the Ministry that Black was the Potters' Secret Keeper. This I found very interesting when I was reading it. What kind of evidence does Dumbledore mean that he gave to the Ministry that Sirius was the Potters' Secret-keeper? Does he mean testimony? And why doesn't he say testimony then? Is there any evidence produced? Tangible? Like as a result of the Fidelius Charm? Did the Potters intentionally fake this evidence and give it to Dumbledore to protect themselves from Dumbledore or others? Do you guys see what I'm saying here? Because Dumbledore says he gave evidence that Black was the Potters' Secret Keeper, but I'm saying, what kind of evidence could that possibly be?

Andrew: Just back-story, I guess. I don't know.

Eric: But that's a form of testimony.

Andrew: I mean, there's no like clues. There's no fingerprints or anything, if that's what you're referring to.

Eric: Yeah, because it's not like you have somebody's wand and you say, "Priori Incantatem," and you can tell that they cast the Dark Mark last, you know?

Andrew: Right.

Eric: It's not like that. So the fact that Dumbledore not only didn't know that Pettigrew was the real Secret Keeper, but that he gave evidence against Sirius, it just makes me really curious what that evidence was.

Micah: Could he have provided a memory?

Eric: That's interesting.

Andrew: Hm.

Eric: He could have, except how good was - his memory would have to be circumstantial. Because his memory wouldn't be of them actually performing the Fidelius Charm, because if he were present he would know that that's Pettigrew that they made the actual Secret Keeper.

Micah: Yeah. I mean, I think it's probably more testimony than anything else.

Eric: Just testimony, then? Because...

Andrew: Yeah. I think so too.

Eric: ...we know they were going to. We know they were going to make Sirius the Secret Keeper. And last minute, Sirius suggested, why not Peter? So anyway that was my question. "'What we need,' said Dumbledore slowly, and his light blue eyes turned from Harry to Hermione, 'Is more time.' 'But -,' Hermione began, and then her eyes became very round. 'Oh!'"

[Eric and Matt laugh]

Matt: You've got to wonder how long that "oh!" really was, if that really happened.

Eric: It's only one "h." I may have exaggerated. It's only one "h."

Matt: Ohhhhhhh!

Eric: In the book. It's like "Oh!" like "Oh!". It's just Harry - I like Hermione in this chapter because - I'll just continue. All right, Hermione takes Harry on a trip through time and the first thing she does is push him into a broom closet, which I say is hot. But why does the Time Turner take them from the hospital ward to the Entrance Hall? Because they specifically mention that they're not in the Hospital Ward anymore.

Andrew: Yeah, I was wondering this, too.

Eric: They go back in time, they go back three hours, "Three turns ought to do it," and they appear in the middle of the Entrance Hall. Wouldn't you risk huge exposure just appearing...

Andrew: Exactly, exactly.

Eric: the middle of the Entrance Hall?

Andrew: Well in the movie, they do it right. They go back in time and they're there.

Eric: And they're in the Hospital Wing?

Andrew: They're in the nursing - right, they're in the hospital.

Eric: So I wonder if Jo said to Cuaron or whoever, "It's okay if you fix this." Because it's kind of an interesting - because, I mean...

Andrew: Was it just a timing thing in the book, I guess. Would it have...

Eric: So that they see themselves running through the Entrance Hall? Because that's what they do, they have to immediately go into the broom closet because they're...

Andrew: Right.

Eric: Running down the steps.

Andrew: Right, and that's how Harry sort of gets the idea that they've traveled back in time.

Eric: Yeah, it's interesting...

Andrew: But there could have been another way to do it.

Eric: It's a device to play the story, but there could have been another way because are we meant to believe that everytime Hermione went back in time she appeared in the middle of the Entrance Hall?

Andrew: Yeah, I agree. I don't like that.

Eric: Again, it sounds conducive to changing the past, which you're not supposed to do. So basically, yeah, Hermione and Harry have all these moments throughout this chapter that they're trying to figure out what Dumbledore was hinting that they should do. They immediately decide that it's to rescue Buckbeak as well and fly him up to Sirius' window. So I just wrote here that watching their brains work in unison really rocks.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: And you know...

Matt: It's like a symphony.

Eric: It's like a symphony. It's like a symphony with electric violin. Is there such thing as electric violin?

Matt: Sure.

Eric: Okay. So there's a moment - and I just wanted to say - while they're on the outing, there's a moment when Harry has to give up his - he's tempted to right the wrong of Pettigrew's escape. He asks Hermione, could they just run into Hargid's hut and capture...

Andrew: Kill him, capture him. Right.

Eric: ...Scabbers, the rat. And she says, "No, Harry, that would ruin everything. There are wizards - what would you do if you saw your future self? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera." But later on then too, they are waiting outside the Whomping Willow and Harry sees that the Invisibility Cloak - I don't know how he sees that it's still there - but he knows that the Invisibility Cloak is just in front of the Willow somewhere, and he says, well, why can't we grab the Cloak? And that way Snape won't be able to sneak up on us in the Shrieking Shack and things won't go wrong that way. And Hermione tells him, "No, you might still be seen and it probably wouldn't be good." And sure enough - this is a moment I completely forgot about was in the books - Hagrid comes, and he's walking across the yard...

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: ...of the Hogwarts grounds. He's carrying a large bottle of brandy and singing at the top of his lungs.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: ...And Jo doesn't say what he's singing but it's interesting because I forgot that this existed, and I know I'm not - I'm fallible here, but that seems to be definitive. I mean that answers the question. Yes, you would have been seen by Hagrid, but it seems very convenient because that seemed like a more acceptable thing to do when you change the past. Just grab the Invisibility Cloak. Like that wouldn't hurt anybody, but then there was Hagrid.

Andrew: So we have seen drunk Hagrid before that. The Half-Blood Prince film was not the first time.

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. And...

Andrew: Here we are. We forgot all about it.

Eric: And not only that, but how many teachers at Hogwarts carry Brandy bottles. Like Trelawney...

Andrew: Yeah. That shouldn't be acceptable.

Eric: ...Trelawney is carrying sherry around when Harry bumps into her in is it Book 6? So how many teachers are not only alcoholics but carry their booze with them as they're traveling through the castle?

Andrew: Yeah. I mean it's one thing to go around - go to Hogsmeade and have a Butterbeer or two, but...

Eric: Exactly.

Andrew: ...On the grounds? That's not acceptable.

Eric: Exactly.

Micah: Well, Hagrid's obviously happy that Buckbeak has gotten away, so he's having a few drinks.

Andrew: Yeah. That may be the reason. Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, well. Celebration is in order, but still. Seriously? Dumbledore's got a brother down in the pub. He'll hook you up, Hagrid, if you want to celebrate.

Andrew: There you go.

Eric: All the goat confetti. All the goats and all the confetti you want. Then Harry actually confides in Hermione that he does think he saw his dad because it's getting to be about that time where Harry starts to think about what really happened at the lake, and he - again just a tender moment with Harry and Hermione that's awesome and this chapter is really riddled with. She hears that he thinks it's his dad, and she basically - the only thing she can think to say is Harry your dad is dead. And she says it as lightly as possible, but Harry is adamant that what he saw conjure the Patronus was not a ghost. Then it happens and he realizes that it was actually him, which is a really cool moment...

Andrew: Yes.

Eric: the series, and he's described as just jumping out. He casts the full-fledged Patronus for the first time he's ever done it, and he says later "The reason I knew I could do it is I knew that I had already done it." So that's a happy thought. But they are able to rescue Sirius Black finishing this up. They're able to fly Buckbeak up to the window, and Black's parting words to Harry are "You are truly your father's son, Harry."

Andrew: Awww.

Eric: He's shocked. You know they don't have a lot of time. He wants to waste time talking to them and thanking them, and they say, Sirius, you've got to get out of here because the Executioner is going to come any minute with the Dementors. And the only thing he can say is "You are truly your father's son, Harry." Boom! Then he's gone.

Andrew: That was a sweet parting line.

Eric: Hey, I'm - I got...

Andrew: Sirius is clearly very happy with Harry.

Eric: ...yeah.

Andrew: I would not be surprised if he were to give him some gifts later on.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Whoa! Well, look at you. You really have that knack for prophecy, Andrew.

Chapter-by-Chapter: "Owl Post Again"

Andrew: So, speaking of that, it's time now for the final chapter, Chapter 22. Everyone have your Kleenex out. This is very sad, that we're wrapping up another Chapter-by-Chapter series. I was just kidding, Matt. I don't them.

Matt: Oh, okay.

Andrew: He just handed me Kleenex. I didn't really need that. Chapter 22, "Owl Post Again." By the way Eric, nice job. You knocked it out with two minutes to spare.

Matt: Well, we'll use up that two minutes then.

Micah: What a lazy...

Eric: I was going to say that [laughs] Black fit through the window, which is a sign of how emaciated he was. Because they're like - they tap on the window, they open it up, and they tell Sirius "Get out," and he just - he jumps out. He doesn't question it. He's about to have his soul sucked out. He's thinking...

Andrew: He's about to be freed.

Eric: ...He's about to be free. So, he jumps out the window, and he fits out the window, and that was just a sign of how emaciated he is.

Micah: Well, I can add something to it as long as we have a minute and ten seconds left here, but Fudge. This is really the first sign of things to come. Like in Goblet of Fire, too. Obviously at the end of that chapter is where things really split between Dumbledore and Fudge, but it kind of starts here with them not agreeing on Sirius even though they don't really have that conversation. And Fudge doesn't know anything about what Dumbledore does, but it all kind of begins here.

Eric: Where Fudge is looking to end the crisis. There's been this Sirius Black crisis for a year. Fudge sees himself as being responsible, being tasked to end this, and he finally has the chance to end it, and he says, "No. You know, there's nothing to worry about."

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: "We got it under control. We're going to kill Sirius."

Andrew: Yeah. Well, yeah, you're right. It's a sign of things to come. We've got to stop trusting Fudge.

Micah: Exactly. Go ahead, Andrew.

Andrew: So, now - huh?

Micah: Go ahead with the chapter that was lazily named.

Andrew: Thank you.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: Chapter 22, "Owl Post Again."

[Matt laughs]

Eric: Lazily named? Why do you say lazily named?

Micah: You couldn't come up with something better than "Owl Post Again?"

Eric: It's circular!

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: The whole book is about time travel.

Micah: Oh, give me a break.

Eric: It's circular.

Micah: "Again."

Eric: The first chapter's "Owl Post."

Micah: Jo was just...

Andrew: It's kind of nice.

Micah: ...waiting to get it to press.

Matt: "'Owl Post,' here we go again."

Eric: That's a heck of an accusation, Micah.

Andrew: All right, "Owl Post Again." So, chapter opens up. Harry and Hermione make it back to the nursing ward in just the nick of time. They let Dumbledore know that the plan was a success, and I love this part in the movie, too, because Dumbledore turns around just as he's shutting the doors, and there are Harry and Hermione running up, and Dumbledore says, "How did it go?" It was a sweet movie moment. Unsurprisingly, Snape sees that Snape has escaped, and he's the angriest I think we've ever or will ever see him. Would you guys all agree with that? This...

Matt: Yes.

Andrew: the angriest we've ever seen Snape.

Matt: I was very upset that they didn't have this in the film, because I was really excited to see if Snape in the film would be really exciting, and angry, but...

Andrew: He was yelling in all caps.

Matt: Yeah! I mean, that's AIM.

Andrew: That's a lot. That's anger. Micah and Eric, would you agree this is the angriest we have ever seen Snape?

Eric: Yeah. With the movie though, like I was thinking about this while reading this chapter series. Cuaron cares about characters, like Harry's character development. There's that scene where he's crying. But at the same time, Cuaron doesn't care about character development or he would have included all that backstory.

Andrew: Yeah, but movie aside. Is - [laughs] Never mind.

Micah: You mean in the books.

Eric: That's why we didn't see it in the movie. But that's why we didn't see Snape screaming in the movie.

Andrew: No. I'm just wondering if this is the angriest we've ever seen him in the book. Period.

Eric: No. I think he's angrier when he's confronted by Harry at the end of Half-Blood Prince.

Andrew: Oh.

Eric: Especially because of what he's just had to do with Snape's emotional turmoil for having to kill Dumbledore. I'm sure that Snape regrets having to kill Dumbledore.

Andrew: That's true. There's a lot of internal anger. This was more like out. [laughs] Verbal. So Dumbledore and Fudge calm Snape down, trying to explain there's no way they could have escaped and freed Sirius. Fudge is surprised by the way Snape is reacting here and says to Dumbledore, "Fellow seems quite unbalanced. I'd watch out for him if I were you." I thought that was a quite a bit of foreshadowing of Snape killing Dumbledore. Watch out for him. [laughs]

Micah: Meanwhile he was all ready to give him an Order of Merlin, First Class two chapters ago.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, seriously.

Eric: He was ready to give someone who was an unbalanced fellow...

Micah: Shows what a moron Fudge is.

Eric: Yeah, exactly. But shouldn't Fudge be equally upset? Shouldn't Fudge be threatening Dumbledore at this point, where Sirius has just escaped from Dumbledore's castle. Dumbledore was the last person to see Sirius. Couldn't he accuse Dumbledore of giving Sirius the keys to the bars. That seems incredibly suspect.

Andrew: Yeah. It is strange. Well, the next day the Trio is released from the hospital wing and since all the students are in Hogsmeade, they go to visit Hagrid. Hagrid is thrilled that Buckbeak escaped as evidenced by the previous night before and his drinking habits. If I were the Trio, I would have taken credit for Hagrid for freeing Buckbeak. Couldn't they have told Hagrid? Because they didn't even have to mention they were doing time travel. They could have just said, "Hey look, when we ran out of your hut yesterday, we actually freed him." So would that have been a bad idea?

Eric: I think it's like Harry giving his Triwizard earnings to Fred and George and not advertising that he did that.

Andrew: Oh.

Eric: I think it's something where they're just admiring that it worked, and so they're just going to let Hagrid be happy without taking credit for it.

Andrew: Well, I suppose. I'm one to take credit for everything.

Matt: That's true.

Andrew: So Hagrid tells the trio Lupin is resigning because of the werewolf ordeal, which upsets them all. And Harry decides to go visit Lupin, who is, of course, packing in his office. And they have a nice discussion, Lupin says Snape let it slip that he was a werewolf and no parents would want one teaching at the school. Harry tells Lupin about the Patronus he performed the previous night, and Lupin was very impressed and very proud of him, because it sort of - finally that moment had come when Harry could successfully cast a Patronus after Lupin kept trying to teach him. Lupin leaves and Dumbledore enters, and Harry and Dumbledore get into a discussion about Lupin, Sirius, and the Patronus. And here comes another great Dumbledore line. Harry's talking about seeing his father cast the Patronus, and Dumbledore says [in odd voice], "Do you think the dead every truly leave us? You think that we don't recall them more clearly than ever in times of great trouble?"

Matt: What kind of an accent is that?

Andrew: It's just me, getting into the moment.

Matt: [mimicking Andrew] Do you think that this is the best thing ever?

Andrew: Dumbledore also mentions that Trelawney's prediction about someone joining the Dark Lord was indeed accurate, and it was her second accurate prediction. Now, refresh my memory, is this the first time we learned of Trelawney having the first correct prediction?

Matt: I think so, yeah.

Andrew: Mmmm. Does anyone remember reading this for the first time and going, what is he referring to?! And why didn't Harry ask? Surely Harry didn't assume it was the prediction about the last to stand at the table, right?

Eric: If he would have asked about it, I'm sure Dumbledore would have said, you know, that time not yet allows - the first question you asked me is not the one I can answer...[laughs]

Andrew: You are not old enough!

Micah: You're a pig for slaughter, Harry.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: You're a Machiavellian figure.

Andrew: It is time I tell you everything - this time, I'm going to tell you everything.

Micah: But going back - just real quick - to Lupin, Andrew, what you brought up, do you think that was Snape's way of trying to get the job again, by saying that Lupin was a werewolf? Knowing how much he wants to be the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher...

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Micah: Or do you just think it was out of frustration, or both?

Andrew: Well, I'm sure Snape was thrilled to have another shot at it.

Eric: I think it was more out of frustration, I don't think Snape has ever had a shot at the DADA position. The only reason he ends up getting the position as DADA is when he has that agreement with Dumbledore. So I don't think it's - presumably, afterwards, Snape won't be back to teach at Hogwarts. I was listening to an old MuggleCast, and we were predicting that Minerva McGonagall would be Headmistress. Nobody saw it coming that Snape was going to be the new Headmaster after what he did to Dumbledore. So I'm just saying, Snape and the DADA position, I don't think he had a chance of getting it. I think it was more out of guilt. Because Dumbledore wanted to keep him away,

Eric: ...just to, as Snape says, not tempt him. And I think that's the final decision on that part. The only thing that changes that is the events of Book 6. But yeah, I think - I think Lupin - I think Snape tries to take it out on Lupin. And that's why he tells him...

Andrew: But when you desire a position like that so much, I think surely there's a little hope within you that thinks, "Oh, well on top of getting rid of this werewolf in the castle, I also have another shot."

Eric: I can just see Snape going on the wire, and being - how would he announce that Lupin is this werewolf? Does he write to the Prophet, "Dear Prophet, I am a fellow professor at Hogwarts school, and I want to write about my - who happens to be a werewolf." That's kind of - not only is that a wormy thing to do, but how is it that Snape lets that slip?

Andrew: I don't know, Eric. Some things about Snape we will just never know.

Matt: It's true.

Andrew: We see that Percy is upset about Sirius escaping, and says that if he ever worked for the Ministry he'll make lots of proposals about magical law enforcement. Does he ever follow through with that? I mean, obviously he gets into the Ministry, but that's not his job. He's more of Fudge's assistant, right? And he doesn't - I mean, maybe down the road further he does. But we don't actually see him doing any of that.

Matt: It's just Percy being Percy.

Andrew: All talk, all talk. He shouldn't be in the Ministry. Nobody in politics should be all talk. So, moving along, as the Trio gets ready to board the Hogwarts Express to conclude another year, Hermione reveals that she dropped Muggle Studies despite doing really well. She said she couldn't handle all the extra effort with the time-turning. Finally, Hermione admits she can't do everything. [Singing] "Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah!" Micah, what was your reaction to this? You're one who loves Hermione, and to hear that she's not as perfect as we make her - or as she makes herself out to be?

Micah: Yeah, it's kind of a - well - I mean, it's not just that specific course she was using it for, right? There were other courses she was going back in time to take.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: So...

Eric: There were two or three.

Micah: So - but I guess after her third year, can she choose to get rid of some others maybe? I don't know. But, yeah, it was good to see some humility there, and for her to realize she doesn't need Muggle Studies anyway. She is a Muggle for the most part.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: Ooh.

Micah: Right? I mean, she's...

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I don't know, that's a controversial statement.

Eric: I mean, she's got dentist parents, come on.

Micah: Yeah, but I mean, she knows everything that she needs to know about Muggles, and she lives with them.

Eric: Well, actually, Muggle Studies is less a class about what Muggles are about than what Wizards think Muggles are about. So that's the reason she had in the beginning of the year for taking it.

Micah: Well, then she should teach it.

Eric: That's true. But she's not going to - that's a small step in actually overcoming the large ignorance the entire Wizarding world - public faces towards Muggles.

Andrew: Ron offers Harry a place to stay at the house for the summer, especially since the Quidditch World Cup is happening that summer, which was kind of cool. This was one of the few books where we get to hear what's coming up.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: And - I mean, we didn't know for sure if that was going to be in Goblet of Fire at that point, but it was kind of cool to see what was coming up.

Micah: Well, I like how he also said that he was going to call him, and everybody remembers that scene from Goblet of Fire when...

Andrew: Right.

Micah: ...Ron calls and Vernon goes crazy.

Andrew: Yeah. That's a very funny moment. And - so Harry's very excited about that. While on the train heading back to Platform 9 3/4, a small owl tries to get through the window of their cabin to deliver a letter to Harry. It's a letter from Sirus who tells Harry he was the one who gave him the Firebolt. He also provides written permission for Harry to visit Hogsmeade, which is pretty bittersweet. And he also offers Ron the owl since it was his fault that Ron no longer had Scabbers. So overall, everyone was pretty happy with Sirus at that point.

Micah: Hermione got the shaft though. She didn't get anything.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Yeah, she didn't get anything.

Matt: She really didn't.

Andrew: Sirius has a thing for guys.

Micah: I thought...

Andrew: What?

Micah: I thought it was cool that Ron kind of does a complete turn around with Crookshanks, and he puts...

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: ...the owl up to Crookshanks' nose and asks him if it's safe or not.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: It was - it was...

Andrew: Look how much respect he has for Crookshanks now. I mean, it's understandable. It was very nice to see. They get off the train, Harry tells Uncle Vernon his godfather's a convicted killer, and all is well. And that wraps up Chapter-by-Chapter for this Prisoner of Azkaban book. We have now completed four books in the series. We've gone Chapter-by-Chapter for every - for Sorcerer's Stone, Chamber of Secrets, Prisoner of Azkaban, and Deathly Hallows. That's pretty good. So we have three more books. [laughs]

Eric: We did One, Seven, Two, and Three, in that order.

Micah: So we really have about ten more books to go, with the size of those three.

Andrew: Yeah, seriously.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: But it's pretty impressive - it's really nice to have this in-depth analysis for now four books in the Harry Potter series, and hopefully we can get through them all before we all die.

Matt: Mhm.

Eric: Yeah. Well, when you were talking about the wizarding world - sorry the Quidditch World Cup being announced I just wanted to mention that going the whole - literally the whole book without knowing - at the beginning of Book 1 Sirius Black is mentioned. Hagrid says, "Best be getting young Sirius Black his motorbike back," and if anybody, and I don't know anybody who did, but if anybody picked that up that that was mentioned in Book 1 and then Book 3 - even on the back cover it's all about this escaped convict Sirius Black. That didn't really have a payoff until the very, very end when we realize that it had to do specifically with the night that the Potters were killed. That would have been interesting if you were somebody who picked up that it was Sirius Black before it was revealed in Prisoner of Azkaban.

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#244 (November 20th, 2011): For the first time ever, MuggleCast has a DVD commentary! Watch Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part 2 on DVD with us. We'll comment on each and every scene - it's as if we're in your living room watching alongside you!

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