MuggleCast 204 Transcript (continued)
News: Adrian Jacobs' Estate sues Scholastic
Micah: British author Adrian Jacobs - this was a story that came about actually when we were in Orlando, with suing Scholastic, claiming that Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire was substantially similar to Jacob's 1987 book, The Adventures of Willy the Wizard. Scholastic...
[Laura laughs making Micah laugh]
Eric: What? Just because his name...
Laura: Sorry. [laughs]
Micah: Keep your...
Eric: ...is Willy?
Micah: ...mind out of the gutter, please.
Micah: This is a...
Laura: ...not that.
Laura: "Willy the Wizard." That is so...
Eric: That is so...
Laura: ...ridiculous sounding, anyway.
Andrew: [in a silly voice] I'm Willy the wizard!
Eric: "Harry Potter." That is so simple-minded. Geez.
Andrew: Go ahead.
Micah: Yeah. But Scholastic released a statement saying that this claim is completely without merit, and...
Andrew: Good. Fight it.
Micah: J.K. Rowling basically reiterated what she said back in 2004 when the accusation first took place, that she never heard of the author or the book until that year. So...
Andrew: Maybe I'm crazy, but I just don't understand how - does the temptation of money you could potentially...
Andrew: ...win from a lawsuit sound so large that you just lose all sense of common sense? Because how will they possibly win this case knowing that J.K. Rowling did not copy [in a silly voice] Willy the Wizard?
Laura: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's the same - you've seen this before. Who was that author who said that J.K. Rowling stole the word "Muggle" from her?
Andrew: Yeah. I can't remember, but...
Laura: Yeah, but it's just ridiculous. I mean, the fact of the matter is with writing, and particularly with genres such as fantasy, you are going to have overlap like that.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.
Laura: I mean, obviously...
Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]
Laura: ...if you are writing about a wizard, there are going to be dragons.
Andrew: [laughs] Right.
Laura: You can't sit here and say, "Oh my God, she plagiarized me," because - I don't know what his exact claim was, but I'm sure it had something to do with the basic storyline or...
Laura: ...some of...
Laura: ...the creatures that were present. And that is just ridiculous.
Andrew: It had to do with Goblet of Fire in particular, and I...
Andrew: ...think the Triwizard Tournament. There was some sort of similarities between three tasks or something.
Laura: Oh wow, because we have never seen that in literature...
Laura: ...before. [laughs]
Andrew: Exactly. And even J.K. Rowling was, like, "Honestly, I've never heard of this book before." [laughs]
Andrew: Good for her!
Micah: Yeah. Or the author for that matter. And one of the other claims was that Christopher Little, Rowling's agent, was also apparently the agent of Adrian Jacobs and that is completely not true. I don't know where they came up with that, so I guess they were trying to say that because they potentially shared an agent, that...
Andrew: They just...
Micah: ...that is...
Andrew: ...shared ideas.
Micah: Yeah, exactly. But it's not even true that...
Andrew: It's bollocks.
Micah: ...they share the same agent. Yeah, crap.
News: Rumors of Universal Theme Park In India
Micah: All right. Well, not even two months after the Wizarding World of Harry Potter theme park opened in Orlando, there are rumors concerning a park to be opened in India, featuring rides from Universal property such as Harry Potter.
Micah: According to The Wall Street Journal:
"Reliance, a media-to-energy conglomerate backed by billionaire Anil Ambani, would be full owner of the park but would pay Universal royalties and fees for using brands and content linked to popular Hollywood movies such as 'Jaws,' 'E.T.,' 'Spider-Man' and the 'Harry Potter' franchise. The park would look much like Universal's other major theme parks in Los Angeles, Orlando, Florida, and Japan, with a variety of roller coasters and rides, shops with movie-related merchandise and nearby hotels."
Andrew: Yeah. 400 acres, by the way. The plan for this park is 400 acres. Not the Harry Potter part, but...
Andrew: ...I think it would be at least the same size as the one in - the Harry Potter portion would be at least the same size.
Eric: So, it's just some guy with a lot of money and he can pay royalties to build stuff?
Eric: I don't...
Andrew: ...this - apparently...
Andrew: ...this is in the very early stages of discussions.
Eric: Oh, early.
Andrew: So it's...
Eric: It's a rumor.
Andrew: ...not even close to official, but...
Eric: But I...
Andrew: ...it is kind of worth mentioning.
Eric: I feel like - yeah, you could do this - if you could pay your lawyers, you could build your own Harry Potter park, you know?
Eric: Just pay the court costs.
Andrew: Oh, they have some deal with Universal, of course. It's not as simple as you are making it out [laughs] to sound.
Eric: But I feel like Harry Potter would be a separate - because...
Andrew: Yeah, I agree.
Eric: A Harry Potter park exists because of an agreement between Warner Bros. and Universal. So...
Eric: ...it is not exactly Universal property, whereas the other movie rides were produced by Universal as a company. I mean, I think - it is Warner Bros., it is J.K. Rowling, a lot of other things for the Harry Potter portion of that park. So, I feel like that...
Andrew: The only reason this story has credibility is because it is from The Wall Street Journal, otherwise we wouldn't have posted it. But it is - I think without question, there will be other Harry Potter parks. It's just going to take several years and this may be the first one.
Micah: That would really piss off London, wouldn't it?
Andrew: Yeah. [laughs] London would get very upset again.
Eric: I think we were saying when we were in the Harry Potter park that they should just tear down the Lost Continent and expand the Harry Potter part...
Andrew: Yeah. It will...
Eric: ...of the park.
Andrew: ...definitely grow.
Laura: Yeah, I don't...
Andrew: That is...
Laura: ...see why...
Andrew: ...free money.
Laura: ...they wouldn't do that, yeah.
Happy Birthday J.K. Rowling and Harry Potter
Micah: A birthday announcement: J.K. Rowling celebrated her 45th birthday. The party was great. The booze was even better.
Micah: I have no idea actually. But...
Micah: ...happy birthday to J.K. Rowling and of course, Harry Potter, coincidentally born on the same date. No idea how that happened.
Andrew: And in honor of them, I think we should play "The Unbirthday Song" from Alice in Wonderland!
["The Unbirthday Song" from Disney's Alice in Wonderland plays. Andrew interjects with "to Harry Potter" and "and J.K. Rowling" rather than "to you"]
Andrew: Okay. Happy birthday to them.
Micah: That was almost as good as us singing.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
News: Happy Birthday MuggleCast
Micah: And also, as you mentioned at the top of the show, MuggleCast turning five years old on August 7th...
Micah: ...which is this Saturday? Yes, Saturday.
Andrew: All right, so we should play the song again!
Laura: No, that's okay.
[The same song plays. Andrew interjects with "to MuggleCast" rather than "to you"]
Andrew: Happy birthday, guys.
Micah: That was short.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Did You Get Your Pants, Micah?
Eric: [laughs] Hey, Micah?
Eric: Did you get your pants?
Micah: [laughs] Did I get my pants? Yes, I did.
Eric: You got your pants?
Micah: We - our - the hosts of MuggleCast seem...
Micah: ...to have a problem leaving their pants in hotel rooms to be shipped at a later date.
Andrew: You too left your pants?
Laura: You did that, Micah? [laughs]
Eric: I have a problem...
Micah: Yeah, I left my slacks.
Eric: ...of collecting these pants and [laughs] holding onto them...
Micah: Yeah, Eric...
Eric: ...and shipping them.
Micah: ...you always seem to be the one who collects them. I don't know what is up with that.
Laura: Yeah, well, at least...
Andrew: It is a little weird.
Laura: Luckily for you, Micah, it is not as awkward for Eric to ask you on the air if you got your pants in the mail. [laughs]
Andrew: All right. Well, good stuff.
Eric: ...I'm glad you got them. Okay.
Andrew: Yeah, there is nothing really else to say about our birthday other than that thank you everyone so much for your support over the years. I mean, it has been five really amazing years of podcasting. MuggleCast started a lot of things for us, so we are all very appreciative. And hopefully everyone has enjoyed the show, and thanks to everyone for sticking with us all this time. There is a lot of people - we have gotten some birthday e-mails so far and there is a lot of people who said, "Yeah, I have been listening since the beginning and I have grown up with the show." And that is really cool to hear because we have too.
Andrew: So is that it, Micah?
Micah: That is it for the news.
Chapter-by-Chapter Fun Facts: Goblet of Fire
Andrew: All right. Now as promised, we're going to start Chapter-by-Chapter for Goblet of Fire!
Eric: This is - I got to say, picking this up to do Chapter-by-Chapter - it was the first book I read that I owned. The first...
Andrew: I had to lift weights...
Eric: ...Potter book.
Andrew: ...to get in shape...
Andrew: ...to pick it up...
Andrew: ...and [laughs] hold it for long periods of time. But anyway, I thought before we got into the chapters, we could start out with some fun facts about this book that I picked up while researching the book online just a couple of days ago. It was originally titled "Harry Potter and the Doomspell Tournament." Then Jo came up with "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire" and "Harry Potter and the Triwizard Tournament" before settling on "Goblet of Fire." And I don't - thinking in the grand scope...
Andrew: ...of the book, "Doomspell Tournament" and "Triwizard Tournament" don't really make sense, especially "Doomspell."
Laura: Yeah. Well, that actually reminds me, I started reading Harry Potter in the fifth grade. I read it right after Prisoner of Azkaban came out and I was talking to this kid in my class who was also really big into it. And I distinctly remember him telling me, "Yeah, Book 4 is going to be called 'Harry Potter and the Doomspell Tournament,'" because I guess that was the rumor at the time. And I remember thinking even as an eleven year old, "God, that is a dumb title. Why would she call it that?" [laughs]
Andrew: Yeah, totally. I wonder if he got that information from MuggleNet back in the day.
Laura: Possibly, because I didn't know MuggleNet existed back then.
Andrew: So, she rewrote the ninth chapter "The Dark Mark" thirteen times. That's another fun fact. And then she almost thought of removing it entirely, and so I thought when we get to that chapter we'll have to look at it and figure out why on earth it took so many tries. Thirteen times she rewrote it! That's crazy. And some other facts: she wrote in a new character, a Weasley cousin who served the same purpose as Rita Skeeter, but then removed her because of some plot hole in the middle of the book. I thought that was interesting. And finally, it was the first book to be released in the U.S. and the U.K. on the same day, which was July 8th, 2000. And I still remember going to the store at midnight. I was down at the beach, and I - we were at this shore house at - on the boardwalk. I walked up the boardwalk to the bookstore and waited until midnight, and I took one of their boxes, too. And on the side of the box it said, "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire...
Andrew: Do not open until midnight." [laughs] I still have that box. Do you guys all remember where you were for the midnight releases of this book?
Andrew: Laura, where were you?
Laura: Well I didn't actually get to go to a midnight release party. I remember we had just moved to Georgia, and I was super angry at my parents because I had no friends in it was summertime, I didn't know anybody. And I was going to go to a midnight release party, but the bookstore we were going to go to – we decided to try to support an independent book store, and they ended up canceling their midnight release party.
Andrew: Oh, geez!
Laura: So I wasn't able to go, and I had to wait until the next day. It was killing me, because I had planned on staying up all night to read it. So we had to wait until the next day to go to Barnes & Noble to get it. But I literally spent the next three days holed up in my room reading that book. My poor mother was like, "Wow! It's seven hundred pages long! It'll take her all summer to read this, she'll stop complaining." Nope, three days. Three days.
Andrew: How fast did you read it. Wow, look at you! Laura Thompson, book machine! Eric, Micah any - Micah, you didn't get into it at this point - you weren't into at this point, right?
Micah: No no, July 8th, 2000 - that was the summer before my first year in college. So that - yeah, I wasn't into Harry Potter I don't think probably for a couple of years later, maybe '04, '05.
Andrew: And Eric, where were you?
Eric: I was not a fan until probably two years later, yeah.
Andrew: Ugh. Ugh, you people.
Micah: Rookies, we're all rookies.
Andrew: Anyway, Laura and I are all true pros.
Micah: You're veterans.
Chapter-by-Chapter: "The Riddle House"
Andrew: Yes, exactly. All right. Well let's get into it, Eric has the first chapter, that would be Chapter 1, "The Riddle House." I wanted to bring up something - [laughs] - before you started. We got this e-mail from...
Andrew: We got this e-mail from Leisha, 17, of Texas. And she brings up a good point, so it's something to keep in mind.
"Chapter One is Harry's first dream about Voldemort, but it differs in one really big way from all the other dreams. And that is that Harry sees things from Frank's point of view. In all the other dreams, things are seen due to a connection with Voldemort and his Horcruxes. So why would Harry have a connection with Frank? This has always been something that didn't make sense to me."
Eric: Now hang on, Leisha. I don't think that that's entirely accurate. I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but you did try and steal my thunder there. I don't think that Chapter One is Harry's dream. I think Harry has a dream involving the events at the end of Chapter One, but a lot of Chapter One is J.K. Rowling, the narrator of the Harry Potter series, writing to us about the history of the town. I don't think Harry has a dream from Frank's perspective, at least until the very end, because we get a lot of backstory and stuff that's just not in the same tone.
Andrew: Oh, you may be right. You may be right.
Laura: I agree.
Eric: You know what I'm saying? I get the feeling that once Frank is in the room with Voldemort, possibly just before when the snake is involved, that's when Harry's dream starts. Harry's dream obviously ends with the death of Frank Bryce, which concludes at the end of this chapter, but we'll get into that later. So I feel like the whole chapter isn't Harry's dream of Voldemort.
Andrew: Fair enough. So get started, go for it.
Eric: Anyway, Goblet of Fire opens up with the discovery - ooh - of the murder of Tom Riddle, Sr. and his parents. This is a cool - this was fun to read. Basically, Tom Riddle, Sr. and his parents live in a mansion - or a manor - in Little Hangleton, it's a little town. And Frank Bryce, the gardener, is arrested, and the townspeople don't believe it until they get together at the pubs - sort of the night after the murders, and eventually they get to drinking and talking and one of them says, "I always thought he had a funny look about him, right enough." And somebody else says, "War turned him funny, if you ask me." And by the next morning, Jo writes, "hardly anyone in Little Hangleton doubted that Frank Bryce had killed the Riddles." So I think Jo - what we're getting here in this first chapter, Jo is commenting on small towns in the Potter series. She's really illustrating what small town people are like. You know, there's this big murder, it's a mystery, nobody knows whodunit, and they get to drink and they get to talk and then all of a sudden they all agree that surely it was the gardener. So do you think - what do you think she's saying? What are you guys' thoughts on this whole - how she's portrayed in - in the first few pages it's - she's very brilliantly fleshed out the townspeople.
Andrew: I think you're right, and it's sort of - it makes you feel bad for Frank, because - you know, how everyone is so quick to assume it was him when it wasn't, you know?
Laura: Yeah. And I mean also, having spent the vast majority of my growing up years in a small town, something that you see often times like this - you live in sort of this - it's almost like a bubble, where people think bad things don't happen here because it's not the big city. And then when something bad does happen people almost have this - this need to justify it in some means that their mind can accept it, and so that they can also think it could never happen to me. So for them to look at the circumstances of this murder - now, of course - we all know who actually killed them but nobody would want to confront that terrible realization that, you know, my son could go crazy and kill me. Instead it's "Yeah, Frank Bryce, he was weird."
Laura: And it's always trying to pawn that off on some external factor. Like, "it couldn't be any of us normal people, it had to be him." So...
Eric: It had to be - had to be "the war that had done it."
Laura: Yeah, exactly.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. That's really interesting. And so, the fact that we're in this village we've never been to before, Little Hangleton - it's a little bit interesting because the first three Harry Potter books, you know where you are. You're pretty much all in Privet Drive from the get-go. And so the fact that this takes place - I think it's 200 miles away - is - I think sets the tone for the book, which is a book about branching out in the world, getting to know the greater Wizarding World, just the world in general. I think it's a bigger - a book with a bigger mind, so it was really cool to see that. Now, one quick point I wanted to bring up here: Frank Bryce says - he tells the police that he's innocent, and he says that he saw a teenage boy, a stranger, who was dark-haired and pale around the manor before the Riddles were killed. "But nobody else in the village had seen any such boy, and the police were quite sure that Frank had invented him," according to the book. I'm asking why was Frank the only one who saw this boy, who we know was actually a young Voldemort?
Laura: Well, I mean...
Andrew: He kept to himself, right? He never went out.
Laura: Well, I think the fact of the matter is Frank really seemed to know the grounds of that home better than anyone else. I mean, he'd been there for some number of years. And, it's quite possible when you're living on the grounds you're going to see more of it than the townspeople are. They don't live there.
Laura: So if he saw Tom Riddle walking up to the house, he probably was the only one who saw him, especially considering Tom didn't live there.
Andrew: Yeah. Exactly.
Micah: I think that - and Tom's a pretty smart person. He's not going to wander around the village where other people can see him, especially if he's about to go commit a murder.
Eric: Yeah. So he had a very specific purpose, he had a very specific reason to be there. And he just basically came, did his stuff and left.
Eric: So anyway - what you were saying, Laura, this fits in my next point: the coroner's report. So everybody in the town expects or suspects Frank, and evidently the report came back on the bodies and "changed everything." Listen to this, this is great: "None of the Riddles had been poisoned, stabbed, shot, strangled, suffocated, or as far as they could tell harmed at all. In fact, the report continued, the Riddles all appeared to be in relatively perfect health, apart from the fact that they were dead." [laughs]
Eric: So this is actually - the reason I wrote this, the reason I liked - Jo wrote this, I didn't write this - but the reason I brought it up is because this is - what we're getting here is what the Killing Curse, what Avada Kedavra, which plays a great role in the Harry Potter books - this is what it looks like to Muggles. You know...
Micah: The top Twitter trend.
Eric: This is - these are the - what?
Andrew: The top Twitter trend. It's been trending on Twitter, like the number one spot for the past three days now.
Eric: What has?
Andrew: Avada Kedavra.
Eric: It has?
Eric: I haven't been on Twitter in three days. [laughs] That's pretty funny. Anyways, so this is what the Killing Curse looks like. You know, we've been told before that it didn't really - actually, no, we hadn't been told before. This is the first instance of the Killing Curse, and it's really cool to see that it doesn't really leave a trace. It just - it kills you, but there's no way to - otherwise, if it weren't for the fact that you were dead there would be no harm to you. So this was - is just a really interesting thing for the Harry Potter series in general.
Eric: So we don't really know that there's just one killing curse at this point in reading the book - the curse that killed Harry's parents and was meant to kill him and backfired isn't specifically named, and it's not known to be the only curse that kills you until later in this book, so I thought that was interesting as well. Also somebody - one of the townspeople says the door wasn't forced to the Riddle's house, so I just wanted to point out that even...
Eric: ...a young Voldemort uses Alohomora. [laughs]
Andrew: Alohomora! Alohomora! I'm practicing that for the video game.
Laura: You also have to practice Flipendo! Flipendo!
Andrew: Flipendo! Flipendo! Flipendo!
Eric: Is it Flipendo or Stupendo? Is it...
Andrew: No, it's definitely Flipendo.
Laura: No, it's Flipendo.
Andrew: I need to find that game and re-record all those spells.
Andrew: Those were great. I hated it! It ran through - never mind.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: So, anyway, having nothing to convict him on, Frank Bryce is let go. He's not arrested, and years and years and years later, years later, Frank Bryce is considerably older, and he awakens one night to find his leg - which he had hurt in the war - it's paining him worse than ever. And he goes to turn the kettle on and discovers the lights are on in the Riddle House.
Andrew: And this is where the movie starts, by the way.
Eric: This is where the movie starts. Frank's putting the kettle on and sees the lights.
Andrew: It's almost perfect.
Eric: It's pretty cool. So he thinks it's pranksters. Those darn, young kids, "get off the grass" sort of thing - always used to break into the house. He goes to investigate and, sure enough, he actually stumbles upon Voldemort and Wormtail. So Voldemort and Wormtail have this little meeting. It's important to mention, this is Voldemort from the end of - we last saw this Voldemort at the end of Sorcerer's Stone. We saw Voldemort in Chamber of Secrets, and we didn't see him in Prisoner of Azkaban at all. But the Voldemort we saw in Chamber of Secrets was diary Tom Riddle, and not this Voldemort, so I thought that was also important to remember. Wormtail on the other hand is fresh from Prisoner of Azkaban. So, I said it's refreshing to Harry Potter readers still upset over Pettigrew's escape at the end of Prisoner of Azkaban to be immediately immersed in where he is and what he is doing. Unfortunately it means an evil plot! Oh no! [laughs] Here's a question, Voldemort tells Wormtail that Wormtail was supposed to milk Nagini before they retire. Do you guys catch this?
Andrew: That's what I do with my snake too.
Eric: He says, "I need feeding. You need to milk Nagini before we retire."
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Laura: I think - I don't think he's referring to actual milk.
Micah: I don't think he's talking about nipples.
Laura and Micah: I think he's talking about venom. Yeah.
Andrew: Yeah. No, I think you're all right...
Eric: But it says he needs to feed!
Andrew: I just wonder about the necessity of things like this in the Harry Potter series.
[Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: There's enough jokes about wands and such.
Laura: Well yeah.
Micah: In Chamber of Secrets.
Laura: Another fan favorite - I do believe it was from Goblet of Fire was Ron was very exasperated. He said something, and it says at the end of the quote, "Ron ejaculated." [laughs]
Eric: Ejaculated loudly?
Eric: I first heard that line when Jim Dale read that line to me. And it's like, '"oh, what?" Ron ejaculated loudly.' It's funny.
Eric: Anyway. So Voldemort's going to do some weird thing where he feeds on Nagini's milk, or maybe Nagini's milk is going to - whatever.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Eric: I think this is the first time we see Nagini. Because Voldemort has a pet snake we didn't know about it before, and Jo - here's a great quote I found. Once Frank is in the room Jo writes, "The snake was curled up on the rotting hearth rug like some horrible travesty of a pet dog."
Eric: And I thought that was really cool. But Voldemort has a pet snake!
Laura: Yeah. I love her use of description. She is so great. These are some of my favorite things in the books to read.
Micah: You skipped over an important part though. That Nagini is a Horcrux, and Voldemort is essentially surviving off one of his Horcruxes by drinking the venom of Nagini.
Eric: Well is it - yeah, I mean, that's important, but is it - is he going to use the venom to kill another animal and then feed off that animal? How is that - I mean, is it not milk, is it venom? I just assumed it was its nipples...
Micah: No, I think it's venom.
Laura: Yeah, no, I think it's venom.
Eric: So he's going to eat the venom of - but he's surviving off of again one of his - well, she's not entirely his Horcrux like Harry, right? Where part of his soul is also part of her. It's like when Harry and Dumbledore in Book 6 were talking about it Dumbledore's like, "well, ordinarily you wouldn't want to make another living thing your Horcrux because it would be like sharing your soul with somebody else."
Eric: So I feel if you are a Horcrux, you just have that part of someone else's soul in you. You're still your own entity. So you can still be a snake, and have nipples, apparently, but not be totally a Horcrux.
Laura: Yeah, I agree with you.
Micah: I guess so.
Laura: But I mean, it makes sense to me. At this point Voldemort's not human. He doesn't have a body. So the fact that he's feeding off of venom doesn't disturb me. I mean, it makes sense. He's evil. Of course he can eat venom.
Eric: [laughs] That's a good point. Okay, so Frank overhears the whole game plan. It's pretty interesting and the stage is set. Something will happen involving a murder and it will take place after the Quidditch World Cup. Frank Bryce unfortunately - he stands up...
Andrew: Is about to die.
Eric: ...to Voldemort. He says, "Hey you" - he says, yeah.
Andrew: "Show your face!"
Eric: "Face me like a man! Show your face!" and Voldemort's like, "Oh. Okay." [laughs] Voldemort, "Wormtail. Turn me around."
Andrew: This is actually the same exact thing that happened to me when I wanted to see Micah for the first time.
[Eric, Laura and Micah laugh]
Andrew: He was sitting in a chair - reverse me, and I was like, "Show your face!" And then I looked and he turned around. I almost passed out.
Laura: Wow, Andrew!
Micah: Thanks, Andrew.
Andrew: No problem Micah! Just warning people in the future.
Eric: Yeah, poor Frank.
Andrew: Just kidding! Micah has a beautiful face.
Eric: "He was dead before he hit the floor. And two hundred miles away, the boy called Harry Potter woke with a start."
Andrew: So Harry only woke with a start because he wasn't seeing the whole dream, to get back to that original e-mail.
Andrew: He was just awakening from Voldemort's frustration.
Laura: Yeah. And I think that this goes to show that Eric's point was correct because clearly here where we're seeing J.K. Rowling operating a sort of, a complete out-side party, she's telling us stuff from the point of view of Frank, Voldemort and now Harry. So I don't think any part of the first chapter was particular to any of those three characters, you know what I mean? I don't think it was particular to Harry just because she's talking about him as an outsider.
Eric: So it's like...
Micah: And this is...
Eric: This was like, "The Other Minister" chapter where it's...
Eric: ...other people.
Micah: This is also where the movie took a little bit of liberty by putting Barty Crouch Jr. into the scene.
Micah: And making it - they made it - the movie made it seem more like Harry was dreaming about this.
Eric: Well I think...
Micah: So maybe that's where the mix-up occurred.
Eric: And even in the beginning of chapter two of this book Harry is trying to recall - he did see Voldemort and Wormtail in a room. That - I think that's in the book, where he did see them in a room. But I feel it's sort of - the events of his dream take place right before Frank dies. Maybe there's some mumbling, and he sees - Frank sees Voldemort's face and I think that's what Harry basically saw.
Laura: Yeah, and a lot of those dreams throughout the book tended to be residual too. I mean, he would have dreams about this scene on more than one occasion. So he might have been seeing little bits and pieces at different times. Maybe not the whole thing at once.
Eric: Right. But I guess we're meant - I mean this is also kind of his connection with Voldemort through the scar. When he can see when Voldemort's happy or sad. Voldemort just commits murder and we're meant to believe at the exact same moment Harry awakes from a nightmare. So it's kind of like the scar connection has grown.
Andrew: Well, now that Frank Bryce is dead as we had promised we need to get back to playing songs for each fallen character. And Eric, you selected a song for Frank Bryce that's called, "Wonderful Wonderful" by Johnny Mathis. And here's a small sample now in honor of...
Eric: Goodbye, Frank.
["Wonderful Wonderful" by Johnny Mathis plays]
[Andrew sobs dramatically]
Andrew: Rest in peace, Frank Bryce.
Laura: Eric, I don't know why...
Laura: ...but I had a feeling you were being ironic with your song choice.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Eric: Yeah, it was like, "I feel the glow of your love" and it's the glow of the death curse. I feel like that.
Andrew: That's a pretty good choice. I liked it.
Laura: No, well done, well done.
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