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MuggleCast EP20 Transcript (continued)



Hermione's Patronus


Laura: Why do you guys think, why do you think her Patronus is an otter? Iíve always been curious about that. What personality traits do you think that she exhibits that would make her Patronus an otter?

Jamie: Can I go?

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: I think sheís, Iím going to be really, really boring and just say that Jo thought that Hermione should have an otter. It sounded nice and it just sort of - I can just picture Hermione waving her wand and this otter just sort of flapping about on the ground, walking along. Well she like turns her head talking seriously to Harry. Just picture it.

[Laura laughs]

Ben: I donít know. Jamie, I think I might have to agree with you there. Like weíve said in the past, we overanalyze things - well, you guys know what I mean.

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: But I donít if the whole otter thing, if there is really a hidden meaning behind it. Maybe itís an otter for just for the sake of being an otter.

Jamie: I donít know.

Laura: No, no, no. Iím talking personality traits and such.

Jamie: I donít really know how an otter behaves though. Are otters angry or...?

Laura: We donít know terribly much about Hermioneís background.

Andrew: Didnít, okay, you guys are going to think Iím crazy, but didnít JK RowlingÖ Iím going to look this up right now. Didnít JK Rowling say sheÖ

Laura: I know she said somethingÖ

Andrew: She liked otters as one of her favorite animals?

Laura: Yeah. It seems like that and she always talks about how Hermione was like her.

Andrew: Yeah, exactly.

Jamie: Yeah, that could be it.

Andrew: So, yeah.

Micah: I know Iím not a scientist or anything but isnít there a relation between an otter and a weasel, somewhere along the line?

Jamie: Is there? Oh my god.

Laura: That makes sense.

Jamie: Oh my god, thatís amazing! Oh my god.

Ben: Oh my god.

Jamie: Oh my god, Micah, thatís absolutely awesome.

Ben: Oh my god. Micah Tannenbaum has discovered the key to the Harry Potter shipping series. Do you guys see this?

[All laugh]

Ben: Fans, send a letter to the P.O. Box.

Andrew: Give us a call.

[All still laughing]

Ben: Send him fanmail. Give us a call. Oh my gosh, Micah.

Andrew: 218-20-MAGIC. Seriously though, he makes a good point.

Jamie: That's an awesome point.

Ben: That is true, that is true.

Micah: Now Iím going to have to look that up.

Andrew: Iím going to do Google image searches and compare.

Jamie: Can we have ten seconds of silence to appreciate that amazing revelation by Micah?

Andrew: [digusted noise] Nobody Google image search weasel. Iím sorry I mentioned that.

[All laugh]

Jamie: Really? Iím doing it right now of course.

Ben: So Micah, yeah, Micah, thatís a very ingenious theory, Iím impressed. Do you have something else to add about it? Youíre on to something here. I think you are.

Andrew: You have pioneered this new shipping theory.

Micah: Yeah, here. Ok, wait this isÖ

Laura: Ah, the shippers are going to beÖ

Micah: This is on the BigBlueBus.com [laughs].

Andrew: Weíre going to hear this on the Harmony PodCast.

Micah: Yeah. Sea otters may be similar to seals on the outside, but they are not closely related. Sea otters are related to the weasel familyÖ

Jamie: Yay.

Micah: But they share the sea with the seals.

Jamie: Yay, yay, yay, yay, yay.

Ben: Micah, Micah. Are you JK Rowling?

Micah: I am.

[All laugh]

Ben: Yeah, I swear. Listen to this kid.

Jamie: Didnít you know that, Ben? Didnít you know that? Of course he is.

Ben: Yeah, I was just on Skype with Jo the other day.

Jamie: Did he catch you in the dark?

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: You mean me?

Andrew: Donít steal Johnís jokes. They are bad enough as they are.

Micah: Whoís John?

Ben: Do you guys think there is any question that Hermione is going to end up with Ron?

Jamie: Uhh, no. Although, althoughÖ

Andrew: At this pointÖ

Laura: Any question that Hermione will end up with Ron? No.

Jamie: I have this horrible feeling that, no I donít think it is, but I can see it happening, being some kind of tragedy. Like theyíll admit their undying love to each other just as Ron dies. I hope it isnít going to end like that and I donít think Jo would do that to us actually. But, you never know.

Andrew: I donít know.

Jamie: Romeo and Juliet.

Ben: The problem I see occurring is that Ron is too big of a - whatís the word I am looking forÖheís a chicken.

Laura: No heís not.

Andrew: Yes he is, he always has been.

Ben: Yes he is. Heís scared of spiders, heís afraid of talking to girlsÖ

Laura: He is not.

Ben: The only time heís asked a girl out is Fleur when he was hypnotized by Fleurís Veela... viva jazzÖwhatever itís called.

Laura: You know what. If Ron were a coward, he would not have done half of the things heís done with Harry. He would not.

Ben: No, heís a coward when it comes to girls. Thatís what Iím saying. When it comes to girlsÖ

Laura: Well, yeah, so is Harry.

Ben: I know, but Iím saying that, how is Ron suppose to reveal his undying love for Hermione when he canít even ask her to the Yule Ball?

Laura: Okay, half the guys on the planet are terrified of girls - they get over it.

Ben: Not true, not true.

Laura: Yeah, true.

Ben: Iím not. You guys hear me talking about Emma. Iím not terrified of anyone. Iím Ben Schoen.

Laura: Right, well weíll get you face-to-face with Emma and see what happens.

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: Oh, nothing will happen. But the point Iím trying to make is, the only reason I donít see the relationship happening right away is because the wholeÖ

Laura: Well of course it hasnít happened right away, itís been six years.

Ben: Iím talking about Book 7, when we get into Book 7.

Laura: No, itís not going to be straight off and I donít even think weíre going to see that much of it.

Ben: They have other things to worry about. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah, exactly. I think if both of them live, which I think itís very possible that Ronís going to die, but if they both live, that theyíre going to get together at the very end. And then she said she was going to write an epilogue letting us know what happened to everyone. So if they grow up and get married and have loads of kids, then weíll find out. But itís not going to be a huge part of the storyline.

Ben: Definitely true.

Jamie: I have something to talk about. Can we talk about something?

Ben: Yes.



Harry's Life Post-Voldemort


Jamie: Ok, I think we should discuss whether Harry, if he kills Voldemort, whether he can have a quiet life after Book 7 or whether he will always be living in the shadow of being Harry Potter and defeating Voldemort. He can like get married, settle down, and have children and live a normal life, or canít he? Take the floor, somebody.

Laura: I think he could get married and he could have kids and stuff, but I donít think his life will ever be normal.

Jamie: No, I agree. Yeah.

Laura: I think itís always going to be there.

Ben: Itís kind of like, what's the word I am looking for when actors are always known, like Mark Hamill. Luke Skywalker.

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: Heís always like, whenever you see a movie, youíre like "Hey, thatís Luke Skywalker" and some people think the same things going to happen to Daniel Radcliffe. People will say, "Oh, what is Harry Potter doing in the movie?"

Laura: Itís entirely possible.

Andrew: Well I mean like, when you say living a normal life, do you mean not being recognized on the streets and stuff like that? Cause if he kills VoldemortÖ

Ben: No, no, no.

Andrew: He wonít have to worry about that anymore. So in that sense, he wonít be constantly having this on his mind and his scar wonít burn and all that. But I think heíll lead a normal life if itíll just be, "Oh, youíre Harry Potter. Youíre that guy, cool."

Ben: No, look at it after, before, look at it before Voldemort came back. When Harry, whenever he got on the train, everyone was trying to look at his scar. Whatever battle scars he has from Voldemort, if he survives the final battle, then itís going to end up the same way. They are going to say, "Well, does he have a new scar? Does he have this, or does he haveÖ?"

Andrew: Yeah. Well, itís just getting recognized.

Laura: Not to mention, there is always going to be a little bit fear there, I think. People are always going to have that little bit of fear about Harry being powerful enough to...

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: ...defeat Voldemort. I mean, there is a possibility he could possibly rise up and be the same thing.

Jamie: The thing is though, heís like more than famous. It isnít just fame, he isnít like a celebrity. Heís like, you know, I canít think of a word for it but, I think it extends beyond, "Oh hey, youíre somebody, can I have your autograph," itís just...

Ben: Heís a phenom. Is that a real word, a phenom?

Jamie: Donít know.

Ben: Phenom?

Andrew: Phenomenon?

Ben: Not a phenomenon, a phenom. Is that a word, phenom?

Andrew: Female? Are you calling Harry a girl?

Jamie: [laughs] Sounds like a type of water.

Micah: I think itís short for phenomenon. I think youíre good. Donít worry about it.

Ben: Itís a phenomenon: Especially remarkable or an outstanding person. Yeah, Harry Potter's a phenom...

Micah: There you go.

Ben: ...in the wizarding world. I found a word for it. Okay, guys, is there anything more to add about Hermione?

Andrew: Yes, thereís plenty to add.

Ben: Well then, tell me something. Tell me something good about her.

Andrew: I just canít think of it, I donít know. See...



Hermione and Draco


Ben: [whispers] Sheís a Mudblood.

Andrew: Yeah, why was she so hurt when Draco said that to her?

Laura: She wasnít in the book. In the bookÖ

Ben: Yes, she was in the book.

Laura: No, she didnít know what it was.

Ben: Yeah, she didnít know what it was. She was like, "Whatís a Mudblood?"

Jamie: Oh yeah, she just didnít know what it was.

Ben: Itís because Ron reacted. In the movie, sheís like [makes crying noises], "It means dirty blood."

Jamie: Why is Draco so obsessed with Hermione being a Mudblood as well? Think how manyÖ

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Oh, I shouldnít say that word so rudely, but think how many of them there are at Hogwarts. Although the dialogue centers around Harry and his group of friends, still youíd expect him to concentrate on all of them, not just Hermione specifically. Oh, perhaps he has a thing for her.

Ben: Ooooh.

Andrew: I justÖ

Ben: A love/hate thing.

Laura: I think heís threatened by her. I think he feels very threatened by her. Like as we saw in Chamber of SecretsÖ

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: When Lucius was getting on to him about having lower exam results than her.

Andrew: Exactly.

Ben: Yep.

Laura: And on top of that, sheís Harryís best friend. I think heís extremely threatened by her.

Andrew: I think itís Lucius thatís drilling it into Dracoís mind.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: "That you cannot, you have to hate this girl. Sheís not wizard-born. Are you kidding me?" Stuff like that. Itís all how theyíre raised.

Ben: I agree with you, dude.



Emma Watson as Hermione Granger


Andrew: How about we talk about Emma for a little bit because Emma in the... Okay, Hermione in the movies is portrayed differently than she really is in the books. Mostly her looks. That rhymed.

Ben: Oh yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Ben likes these looks.

Ben: Well, obviously you do, too. You were confusing her. You were calling Hermione Emma and Emma Hermione.

Andrew: Iím just trying to be mature, Ben. Iím going to hold my personalized thoughts to myself.

Ben: Thatís alright, I love you. Emma, if youíre listening to this, I love you.

Andrew: Okay.

Laura: Ben, shut-up!

Andrew: She - just - in the movies, she looks like a beauty queen, which is completely wrong.

Laura: She does. I thinkÖ

Andrew: Laura, elaborate.

Laura: It is, it really is. The Yule Ball scene was supposed to be a complete transformation.

Jamie: Yeah, thatís a good point.

Laura: And I donít know about you guys, but as I was looking at the screen, I didnít see any difference except for the fact that she was wearing a dress. And she had on earrings.

Jamie: And her hair was up, yeah.

Laura: Yeah, her hair was up. And there was just noÖit wasnít stunning. It really wasnít because we see her as this more than average-looking girl. Sheís prettier than most of the girls that sheís on screen with and not that Emma isnít pretty, because she is very pretty, butÖ

Ben: Got that right.

Laura: I think they could do a better job of dressing her down.

Andrew: Well, they donít even try because they want to make Emma look good so that all the guys are interested in seeing the films.

Laura: Itís sex appeal.

Andrew: Yeah. I just, I canít even mention the things my friends said in school the other day.

[Laughing]

Jamie: Iíve heard this story.

Ben: Iíd probably agree with many of those things.

Laura: We canít mention some of the things that Ben has saidÖ

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: ...when weíre not recording.

[Laughing]

Jamie: Donít you think this comes down to, do you think the books - sorry - do you think the films should mirror the books? Because, you know, there are so many thingsÖ

Andrew: Thatís the important that that people are upset by.

Jamie: But...

Andrew: Most - a good portion of the fan base consists of girls, and they have this Emma in the movie looking very nice.

Ben: Mighty fine.

Andrew: [laughs] I was waiting for that.

Laura: The reason that it bothers so many girls is because girls look to Hermione as a type of role model.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: They see her as someone who has a great amount of power in the series, but sheís not any, whatís the best way to put thisÖ

Andrew: A slut.

Laura: Sheís average. Yeah exactly, sheís someone you can identify with, on several levels, and when you see her as someone who is just physically perfect. Itís justÖIt kind of kills the image.

Ben: And itís weird that how in the movie when Emma, or Hermione, said the line, [in a horrible British accent] "Itís taken you this long, maybe you should notice Iím a girl" and all this stuff thenÖ

Jamie: Was that suppose to be a British accent, Ben? That was absolutely atrociousÖ

Ben: It was a poor attempt.

Jamie: Pitiful.

Ben: But when Emma said the line about "Well, Ron, maybe you should notice Iím a girl next time," then I kind of think, well how can he not notice? Look how good she looks.

Laura: Exactly.

Ben: Because in the books, I think the attraction is more of a - more of a, you know - theyíre attracted to personalities as opposed toÖ

Laura: Yeah, not to mention Ron doesnít know it. Heís clueless.

Ben: Definitely true, but I think Emma does a really good job portraying the personality I think.

Jamie: Yeah, I agree.

Ben: I think itís just the problem - they prettied her up so much.

Laura: Sheís a good actress. Sheís a great actress. I think sheís doing a good job, really.

Ben: And another thing that I noticed is that, ever since the first, movie they started making her better and better. I donít know if it has to do anything with her maturingÖ

Andrew: Itís just her age. She was eleven when she started.

Jamie: Itís maturity.

Ben: But seriously though, look at the first movie. Look at her hair, though. Itís all frizzy and puffied out.

Laura: Yeah, it was perfect in the first one.

Ben: And then second movie, it was just kind of long and curly. Third movie, it was just sort of there; it wasnít even trademark Hermione hair anymore. Then in the fourth movie, it was somewhat straight half the time.

Andrew: But we know why they do this. Itís for marketing. A lot of thisÖ

Jamie: No, itís...

Andrew: Yes, it is.

Jamie: No, itís not. Itís because people change and the description that Jo gave at the beginning of the first book - sheĎs not going to describe the characters in every subsequent book. People in this world change their hairstyles, they change their clothes, they change everything. You canít expect Hermione to look exactly the same. Obviously, you know it is true that she is pretty different from the books, but sheĎs changed and sheís matured just as Hermione in the books has.

Micah: But, I mean, are we going to see like a Luna Lovegood supermodel in the next movie?

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Uhhh...

Laura: Thatís what Iím afraid of.

Andrew: Well, weíll find out in January.

Laura: The thing is I agree with Jamie to a certain extent, but the thing is, Hermione has never put a great deal of time into her appearanceÖ

Ben: Until the Yule Ball.

Laura: The only time we see that is for the Yule Ball, and even after that, she never - there is no description of her ever. She even said so herself, trying to make her hair straight, she just wasnít going to do it again. It was too much of a hassle.

Andrew: Yeah, and Iím sure, Iím sure, that JK Rowling has intended it that way, to not look all fancy.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Sheís smart, sheís doesnít care about looks.

Jamie: But she does though, obviously. ThatÖ

Andrew: Well, she might now.

Jamie: No, no, no, but she does. The Yule Ball just proves everything, all of that. It all came together and she clearly does, and everyone thought before then that she just was obsessed with doing well in school and everything. But it turns out that she was a normal girl. Which means that, to be honest you know, the film producers can show that she cares about her looks because after youíve read Book 4, you realize that.

Laura: I think she does and I think she is a normal girl to a certain extent, but I think she also realizes there are more important things that she has to do...

Jamie: Definitely, yeah.

Laura: ...other than put on lipstick.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: But Jamie, you have to think that it has to do somewhat with marketing.

Jamie: Oh yeah, no, no. I do, of course, you canít - I think the Trio has to...

Andrew: It has to sell.

Jamie: Yeah, Warner Bros. has to sell the Trio not only in the film, but outside the film. And, you know, you canít always stay true to the book. But yeah, I think itís partly to do with marketing, I wouldnít say itís completely to do with it. They do have to pick people who fit the roles in the real world as well as in the films. I mean, even if there was the most perfect Hermione who hated fame and hated all the publicity and PR stuff, you couldnít pick her because she would suit the franchise. I think you have to pick actors who suit the franchise as well as the interior of the film.

Ben: [In a British accent] Very good point, mate.

Jamie: [In an American accent] Cheers, man.

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October 8, 2014

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#244 (November 20th, 2011): For the first time ever, MuggleCast has a DVD commentary! Watch Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part 2 on DVD with us. We'll comment on each and every scene - it's as if we're in your living room watching alongside you!

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