Andrew: ...I question your gay-dar. Let's move on now to the trio at Malfoy Manner. Of course, they get caught by the Snatchers right before this. And we see Dobby and this is not the first time we see Dobby. We saw him a little bit earlier in the film. I loved Dobby in this film. I think even though you have a limited amount of time with him and we haven't seen since Chamber of Secrets, I think you really get a connection with him. I really was, like, "Awww, Dobby!"
Richard: I don't agree.
Micah: I can't say I did.
Micah: I mean, I feel like we're negative on all these points but I guess it's good to have sort of the counter-balance. Richard, go ahead, I'll let you go first.
Richard: Well, I kind of felt cheapened by Dobby. I mean, from a CGI point of view, it was the exact same model as they used in Chamber of Secrets. It looked out of date.
Andrew: But you know what? Can I say...
Eric: I don't know about that.
Andrew: No, I agree. And the first time we had seen him - in a clip, I think, a few weeks ago - we were, like, "Something looks off about him. What's wrong?" I think they purposefully left him a bit cartoonish, I dare say, because that way viewers can connect with him a little bit more. He's not as scary looking as Kreacher, he's a little more harmless, he comes off a little more friendly. I think they did that on purpose. I think they - and I think he actually looks different than he did in Chamber of Secrets. I think they did that...
Eric: He does look different.
Andrew: ...so you felt more emotion towards him. He's a little more like a stuffed animal or a little pet bunny that you would have in your home.
Richard: I'm not convinced. I mean...
Richard: ...the Dobby in the books was covered in clothes and socks and hats because he was free and he loved his clothes. And I just think they took the same model because it was cheaper and it was easier to do that, rather than making a new CGI model for Dobby. I kind of felt a little bit robbed.
Eric: I don't think I agree with that at all.
Micah: Well, I don't...
Eric: Sorry, I don't think the CGI is underdeveloped or in any way the same model that they used eight years ago on the second film. I don't feel like that's true at all. It looked just fine to me.
Micah: Well, I'm not going to talk about the CGI side of things though.
Micah: I'll talk about...
Micah: Sorry to cut you off there. But I'm going to talk about sort of what happens with Dobby, and I thought it was great to have him back because he's really one of my favorite characters in the entire series. But the free-elf speech, when he's talking to Bellatrix right before she throws the knife...
Andrew: Don't you dare say that was bad.
Micah: Not only was it bad, I think...
Micah: ...people would have connected with his return a lot more had he been present in the other films because here he is, he's kind of like this indignant house-elf, basically telling Bellatrix to go screw herself and two seconds later he's got a knife in his chest. So - and it's just - he wasn't developed enough as a character to have him do that and to have him be dead, fifteen, thirty seconds later.
Micah: ...as a character to have him do that and to have him be dead fifteen, thirty seconds later.
Eric: Don't. Don't, Micah. Micah, don't blame David Yates for the knife in Dobby's chest. Blame J.K. Rowling.
Micah: No, I - am I the only one...
Andrew: See, I...
Micah: Am I the only one who thinks that he wasn't developed enough as a character in previous films to do that to him?
Richard: I agree with you completely. I agree completely.
Andrew: But is any character developed enough...
Andrew: ...besides the trio? I mean, they're all lacking, they all lack. But you just have to go off your knowledge from the books and you have to...
Micah: But not everybody has that.
Andrew: ...connect it that way.
Micah: Not everybody has the knowledge from the books...
Micah: ...and I'm saying that if - look how much Dobby plays a vital role in the series, even after Chamber of Secrets. And the fact that he hasn't been around since the second movie and here he is all of a sudden in the final one, it's like a nice cameo, and then all of a sudden he's dead. And I don't think people get the full connection. That's my point.
Eric: Well, how did you feel about his ending speech? Because his ending speech, the second time I saw this, it seemed to go on for a little bit because...
Andrew: When he was...
Eric: ...he's about to die.
Andrew: When he was stabbed?
Eric: He's about to die. Yeah. Well, right before he was stabbed, he has this...
Andrew: Oh, that.
Eric: ...long conversation. Andre: Okay, that...
Eric: I mean, Narcissa is in on the conversation. They're talking back and forth.
Andrew: That was one of my favorite moments. I mean, you see him up there on the chandelier, trying to unscrew it. That was hilarious. Then - and this is based off the audience screening or the fan screening I went to. It was the one at the premiere, so it was a lot of fans. Everybody was cheering during Dobby's speech. Everyone really got behind him and connected with him. And I didn't get that the first time I saw the film, so I think the fans really connected with it and I would guarantee that many of the midnight screenings, all the fans were cheering along with Dobby. I mean, it was a great speech, it was a great buildup, I thought.
Eric: But what about non-fans?
Andrew: I have yet to speak to them.
Richard: I still agree with Micah and I think that if the character was developed more, then I would have felt sadder when he did die.
Eric: I don't think there is anything sadder than Harry holding the corpse of Dobby...
Eric: ...and Luna coming and closing his eyes.
Micah: Not that.
Eric: I mean, that - and it looked...
Micah: Not that.
Micah: I'm talking about what takes place right before that. But...
Eric: So, you're saying the rescue makes somehow less of an impact?
Micah: No, his speech! His speech was out of nowhere. All of a sudden he's giving this - being a free house-elf. It felt fake to me. Sorry.
Andrew: All right.
Micah: ...I'm the Simon Cowell of MuggleCast today.
Eric: No, no, no, it might be - okay, I think what you're saying is Dobby talking about being a free elf has less meaning...
Micah: It does.
Eric: ...because the freedom of elves has not been touched, because the freedom of elves and the independence of elves as a race has not been touched on at all in the films...
Micah: Right. No, you're right.
Eric: ...as it has in the books. I mean, I don't think there are too many significant scenes where Dobby is between Book 2 and the rescue in Book 7. I mean, maybe following Draco around in Book 6 is the most important but that subplot was cut because he does it alone in that movie.
Micah: Well, let's talk a little bit more about Malfoy Manor. There was a scene, though, where - and I didn't get this, maybe you can explain it because you guys know more about the making of the movies. But where that hair falls on Hermione when she is being tortured by Bellatrix.
Micah: What was that?
Andrew: The hair.
Eric: I don't even know what that was.
Micah: There was...
Eric: Yeah, there was a hair and it wakes her up, she comes to.
Micah: Yeah, I didn't get what that was. Maybe it was just...
Andrew: I don't know. Maybe something to stir her. But that shot when Bellatrix is torturing Hermione was another stand-out moment in this film.
Eric: That was changed.
Andrew: You really connect with Hermione. What, was it shorter now?
Eric: It wasn't just shorter. There was - okay, I'm going to be really quick but there's a camera shot where we see what is on Hermione's arm. But originally there was a scene - I guess because it was all one shot maybe of Bellatrix jumping on Hermione, torturing her, and then jumping or getting off Hermione, and Hermione looks - physically turns and holds her arm up to herself to read "Mudblood." Instead Hermione is passed out and the camera shows "Mudblood" and then we show Hermione, and she is kind of immobilized and she has a tear in her eye like she can read it. But it is not the same scene that it was originally was and I think the reason was - we heard Yates and Heyman talk about the intensity, and Emma Watson talks about the intensity of her screaming and getting really into the moment. And I think that everybody was really afraid of showing too much, so a lot of that seems different or was cut.
Andrew: Or they'll bump us to R.
Micah: Yeah, exactly.
Eric: But as long as you guys thought it was worthwhile then that's cool.
Andrew: One other thing in Malfoy Manor here was Peter Pettigrew. I mean, there was a big change here where Pettigrew doesn't kill himself. Harry shoots a spell at Pettigrew to knock him out while he has the fence - while he has the gate thing open because Harry and Ron were sort of hiding where Pettigrew couldn't see them. I was disappointed that they changed this because I think Pettigrew's silver hand registering, so to speak, the redemption, was a great part of the book.
Andrew: And it is - we do see it in Prisoner of Azkaban, so I don't figure - I don't know why they couldn't have continued that plot line. I don't - maybe they were fearing they would have had to have - they would have to remind the audience of what's going on but that could have been solved with a couple of lines of dialogue, I thought.
Andrew: Or maybe it just broke from the pace of the - the pace that they were going for.
Eric: Yeah, because Harry was, like, "Hey. By the way, I saved your life one time. Now you need to - now you owe me one, buddy," and then Wormtail hesitates. But then - I mean, I think seeing his own hand - strangled by your own hand is a great scene in the book because it's so horrifying...
Eric: ...and it would have been good in the film.
Eric: I wonder if they're not going to really do the silver hand beats a werewolf thing because Pettigrew's hand, even in the first Malfoy Manor scene when we see Pettigrew, Voldemort is chastising him for not taking care of Charity Burbage, not keeping her quiet. And he has his hand and it's really out. And later he's walking up the steps from the dungeon in Malfoy Manor, and his hand is hitting the wall and it's clunking, heavy metal. I feel like they're really building that up and obviously...
Andrew: So, maybe they'll kill him in Part 2.
Eric: ...it'll come into play in Part 2.
Eric: Part 2, yeah.
Eric: They're going to...
Andrew: I hope so.
Eric: Obviously, they have to.
Micah: I don't think they will do it with Lupin, though. I think they stated that Lupin dies the same way that he does in the book and Harry just kind of sees him...
Micah: ...sprawled out on the table when he goes into the Great Hall. But the other thing I can think of was they didn't want to kill two people in a very short period of time. To kill Pettigrew and then...
Micah: ...to kill Dobby right after that. Maybe it's a little bit too much. Again, going - even taking the rating into consideration. I mean...
Andrew: I hope that's not the reason, though, because I mean, what are they going to do with the battle? [laughs]
Micah: Yeah, that's true.
Micah: That's very true.
Andrew: In Part 2.
Eric: That's a good point.
Micah: That's a very good point.
Andrew: So, Dobby has his big speech. Like I said, in my theater, the fan theater at the premiere in New York, everyone ate that up. I mean, huge applause. And then, of course, the knife goes into Dobby and there is the scene where Dobby is being buried by Harry. Harry mentions he wants to do a proper burial, no wand work, which was good because that's in the book, and we see him get buried. We don't see his grave, though, the one that says, "Here Lies Dobby, A Free Elf." But I think...
Eric: Part 2.
Andrew: Yeah, I think we're going to see it in the beginning of Part 2 to refresh people's memories. Maybe we will see another montage, sort of like what we got in the beginning of this film and - yeah, so I hope we do see that. I hope we do see that.
Andrew: Was everyone moved by Dobby's death? Any tears? Richard Reed, did you cry?
Richard: I didn't. I actually thought Hedwig's death was sadder.
Andrew: Oh, we didn't even talk about that.
Andrew: I mean, that was kind of a quick, quickie death.
Richard: I loved how she sacrificed herself for Harry.
Andrew: Yeah, that was good.
Eric: It beats the "Expelliarmus" line. Do we all agree that it beats the original way of dying, or not?
Eric: Are we too true to J.K. Rowling to say that?
Richard: I think the movie one was better, actually, yeah.
Micah: Well, speaking of that scene with the wands, obviously, were - did - was this similar to the book where Harry just grabs Draco's wand and takes it away from him? Because that's what happened in Malfoy Manor.
Richard: Yeah, that's what he did.
Micah: It was a bit of a fight, though, wasn't it? It was more of a fight than there was in the film.
Richard: In the book...
Micah: I thought...
Eric: Yeah, because he physically disarms him and that's what transfers the allegiance of the Elder Wand, is that he disarms Draco and Draco had disarmed Dumbledore...
Micah: Right, right.
Eric: ...the year previous. I don't know. The allegiance of the Elder Wand is so hard to track. But yeah, it was basically that, so when he takes it from him physically, it seems like maybe that will have a different explanation in Part 2.
Andrew: And then, the big cliffhanger, we see Voldemort taking control of the Elder Wand. We again see Dumbledore's tomb, which is still a very odd-looking tomb. I mean, like I mentioned...
Andrew: ...when we first saw it in the trailer, it looks like a Jenga game and the blocks are sort of set up like they would in a Jenga puzzle. And they open up, Voldemort cracks his - cracks the tomb, which was cool, and then we see Voldemort go right in, face-to-face with Dumbledore, takes control of the Elder Wand, sends the spell up into the sky, and end scene. Credits. Fin. See you at Part 2. There was no teaser for Part 2. I was kind of hoping for a sort of little teaser thing or something.
Andrew: That would have been a nice touch, I thought.
Eric: Like at the end of Back to the Future? [laughs] Where they do that - first scenes?
Andrew: I haven't seen that.
Micah: No surprise here, though, I thought the ending was a little anti-climactic. I thought...
Andrew: Maybe because you expect...
Eric: Why does everybody say that?
Andrew: Yeah, everybody - nobody was really blown away by...
Micah: Because there was no energy! There was no sense of - if Harry would have said - if there would have been a quick shot to Harry saying, "He has the Elder Wand," and then back to Voldemort casting into the - there was no real feeling of foreboding at the end. It was just kind of, oh, shot the spell in the air! Movie's over.
Richard: Yeah, exactly.
Micah: And they should - they could have done a lot more with that cut-scene, especially since I think they split it at the right point. They just didn't - they didn't drive it home the right way.
Andrew: Richard, where do you think it should have been placed?
Richard: The split?
Andrew: The split, yeah.
Richard: Well, I think if I had my way I would have had the split as they got caught by the Snatchers and then I would have left Malfoy Manor for the last film. I mean, considering how much content - I mean, this film was really two-thirds of the book. It wasn't really half of the book, and that's so much content that they could have gone into that I'm worried that the next film is going to be all action, no story. And this film was kind of - it was almost the opposite, but I wasn't convinced by the story.
Andrew: All right, we're very far into the show. Obviously, there is still a lot more to discuss, but that sums up the major scenes and we will definitely talk more about everything in future episodes. For now though, we're going to do a couple of quick questions. We're just going to go around the table, give some quick answers. First question: favorite new character? Eric Scull, go.
Eric: Reg Cattermole.
Andrew: My answer is Runcorn, too. Favorite scene, Eric?
Eric: The Three - no, I'm not going to say The Three Brothers...
Eric: ...because that isn't acting. It doesn't take any kind of acting. I'm going to say still the Horcrux scene.
Micah: The Ministry.
Richard: The Obliviate at the start.
Andrew: I - mine was the - [sighs] I hate to - I can't pick one Malfoy Manor scene. I'm just going to say Malfoy Manor in general. Those were great. Least favorite scene, Eric?
Eric: Hmm, don't go to me first.
Andrew: [laughs] Micah?
Micah: Well, where should I start?
Micah: No, no, I'm just kidding.
Andrew: One that really bugs you.
Eric: Superlative, Micah. Superlative.
Andrew: If you could pick one that had to be changed.
Micah: One that had to be changed. Oh man...
Eric: Yeah, be Warner Bros. Be, like, "Hey, this needs more reshoots in December."
Eric: What would you...
Micah: Oh man, I would say probably...
Richard: This is like a Rupert Grint interview.
Micah: Yeah. [laughs]
Micah: Yeah, no, it's hard.
Micah: It's hard because we've talked about so much here.
Eric: Poor Richard.
Andrew: How about you, Richard, while we're waiting for the other two?
Richard: I hated the Harry/Hermione dance scene so much.
Andrew: Oh my goodness!
Richard: It just felt wrong on many levels...
Andrew: Why? What bothered you about it?
Richard: ...that they were trying to imply that those two might kiss.
Andrew: Well, I agree with that, but that didn't bother me.
Micah: I would say the pacing of the forest scenes. If they could have quickened the pace of the forest scenes, I think I would do that.
Andrew: Yeah, you know what? I have the same answer as you. I don't know how, though, but - because there is a lot of information going on there, particularly Harry and Ron fight, Ron returning, the destroying of the Horcrux. I mean, those were big things. But yeah, I think they could have tuned that up a little bit, if they had to change that. And Eric?
Eric: It almost seems like they would have to be less faithful to the book if they were going to quicken the pace any further in the forest.
Andrew: I know, yeah. But what's your...
Eric: Least favorite scene?
Eric: The scene on the train that takes place on the Hogwarts Express.
Micah: Oh yeah.
Eric: There's this great moment where Neville is, like, "Harry is not here." And he says it like he's - it's supposed to sound defeated, like even he is upset that Harry is not with them.
Andrew: Well, Neville...
Eric: But it's so short.
Andrew: ...calls him stupid, too.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. "Hey, losers."
Andrew: I couldn't...
Eric: "Hey, losers."
Andrew: Oh, right. Yeah, what - I didn't get that.
Eric: "He's not here."
Eric: But there is so much - it's a second, it's really a second. There is nothing to it, so I hated - that's my least favorite scene because why even film it when - I even felt that Matt Lewis's acting was trying to tell me something.
Andrew: Well, in a way, it gets back to...
Eric: And the timing that the film - yeah.
Andrew: It gets back to explaining...
Eric: Gave it...
Andrew: It gets back to explaining why - to helping explain that people are looking for Harry. That's why they are...
Andrew: ...on the run. Micah, I think you were saying earlier...
Eric: Right, but how do Harry's friends feel about him being missing is what I was interested in...
Eric: ...and I felt like that was about - going to be what that scene was about because even Cormac McLaggen is in this film for that [snaps fingers] split second...
Andrew: [laughs] Right.
Eric: ...where he's, like, "My father will be hearing about this." But it's so short that it's my least favorite scene because it - you almost can't even take in what does happen and not to mention what doesn't, and should, happen. It's what does happen is so quick.
Andrew: That got a lot of laughs, though.
Micah: What were you saying, though, Andrew? You...
Andrew: Well, you had mentioned earlier that there was no - I think it was you. You mentioned that there was no explanation of why they were on the run. I mean, this sort of explains - this helps explain why they are on the run because they are being looked for even on the Hogwarts Express. So, it helps explain to the viewer why they are not going to Hogwarts.
Micah: Well, I think...
Andrew: It's not the best, no.
Micah: No, no, I think my point was just - the severity of the situation is undermined a bit because you don't get as much of a look into how threatening Voldemort is to not just the wizarding world, but the Muggle world as well.
Andrew: Let's now get into some listener tweets on Part 1. We asked you to send these in if you follow us on Twitter and our Twitter name - our Twitter URL is Twitter.com/MuggleCast.
"Some parts sucked, some parts were awesome. The Seven Potters was just too funny for me. Hedwig's death was awful."
"I watched the seventh movie and found it amazing. By the way, our favorite scene was when Harry and Hermione danced, and when Ron kissed that man's wife."
"The film is definitely the best so far. Wasn't sure about the start with the Minister of Magic, but loved the creative animation."
Anorexorcist13 wrote - you guys have some crazy Twitter names, by the way:
"I loved 'DH Part 1', although Grindelwald gave Dumbledore up too easily when Voldemort came looking for the wand."
"Six out of ten for blazing fast pace, episodic feeling, par acting, but great aesthetics far superior to all previous 'Potter' films."
Yeah, the on-location stuff was great. I mean, some of the - when they were camping, there were some beautiful areas they were walking around.
Eric: Andrew, can you talk about J.K. Rowling being a producer? Did they mention that at the junket? I heard it got kind of a non...
Andrew: They said there was no difference. It's what she's always done, she's just actually credited as a producer.
Eric: All right.
Andrew: DarkWolf312 wrote:
"Why didn't they show Bellatrix using 'Crucio'? Some people thought she was biting Hermione's arm, initially."
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: LultimaNotte said:
"First time I left an 'HP' movie without feeling disappointed. I love it!"
"I thought the overall movie was great, but I hate that they left out the Dudley/Harry part. The Three Brothers part excellent though."
"I loved it, best adaptation so far. I loved that they included a lot of dialogue from the book, but why is Wormtail still alive?!"
Eric: That's the question, isn't it?
Andrew: Hopefully in Part 2, we'll get an answer.
Eric: I feel like they had to do something so jarring that everybody is talking about it and is going to go see Part 2 to find out why Wormtail is still alive.
[Andrew and Richard laugh]
Eric: They might even do...
Andrew: That's the big cliffhanger.
Eric: They might even do Deathly Hallows: Part 2 posters of just Wormtail...
Eric: ...with the silver hand going, "I'm still alive!"
Richard: That's the hook for the next film.
Eric: You think so?
Andrew: ItsLaurenYvonne wrote:
"The film felt like a different entity in itself. I kind of can't imagine seeing '6' then moving to that but not a bad thing! Loved it."
"Surprisingly faithful to the book. The cliffhanger was deliciously cruel. Kloves is a closet Harry/Hermione shipper."
[laughs] That's the answer to that. He totally is.
Andrew: Maria Natera wrote:
"Hi from Venezuela! Loved the movie, some lines were exactly from the book! Didn't like that they left out Kreacher's story."
And finally, Dreyesbo wrote:
"If this was the exposition movie and 'Part 2' the action, I feel the audience is still missing crucial info."
This was definitely not the exposition movie because David Yates said they cut out everything that was exposition, [laughs] so...
Andrew: So, that's our big movie review episode. Obviously, there was a lot to talk about and we hoped you enjoyed this discussion but this is, of course, not the end of our discussion on this movie. We will be talking about it for many episodes to come. And I'm sure lots of you have feedback about what we had to say today, so to send it in, please do visit MuggleCast.com, then click on "Contact" at the top, and from there you can fill out our feedback form and give us your thoughts, whether you disagreed or agreed with anything we had to say, and we cannot wait to read your e-mails and get some of them on the next show.
Micah: I think we had a healthy difference of opinion on a lot of things.
Andrew: Yeah, that's good.
Micah: Might be the first time in a while that's actually happened.
Andrew: Speaking of e-mails, on Episode 213 we asked for weird places that you have listened to MuggleCast. We got lots of answers and they have been a lot of fun to read, so thanks everyone for sending them in. We ran out of time on this episode, but we will definitely read them on Episode 215. And finally, one last reminder: if you're listening to this on Saturday, November 20th or Sunday, November 21st, the nomination period for the 2010 Podcast Awards ends on Sunday, November 21st. Just go to MuggleCast.com and at the top of the page right above our Twitter box, you will see - or right above the pumpkins, you will see very easy instructions on how to nominate us. We appreciate that very much and hopefully next month we will learn that we have been nominated...
Andrew: ...in the 2010 Podcast Awards.
Micah: So, can I ask one last question here before we go? If you had to rate this movie, just a number out of 10, what would it be?
Andrew: I would give it an 8, but I fully anticipate giving Part 2 a 10.
Eric: Oh, that seems like a good double question: What would you rate Part 1 and what do you expect you will rate Part 2, given where you think they are going?
Eric: Are you worried?
Richard: I would give Part 1 a 3, maybe a 4, purely for Emma Watson.
Richard: Part 2...
Andrew: Well, what...
Richard: I kind of hope it's really - I'm kind of expecting it to be awesome and if it is, then I will gladly give it a 10. I mean, I want to give this film a 10, but I just can't.
Andrew: You can't even give it half of 10. [laughs] And Eric, your answer?
[Show music begins]
Eric: I'm going to give Part 1 a 10 and I'm only going to expect a 7 out of Part 2.
Eric: I feel like - just in general, I feel like this was the film that's going to connect with me the most for some reason, whatever reason.
Micah: I give this movie 6 out of 10.
Andrew: All right, there we go. Thanks everyone for listening! It's been a lot of fun. Again, our next episode will have much more. We barely scratched the surface talking about this film, so we will be back soon. Thanks everyone for listening! I'm Andrew Sims.
Eric: I'm Eric Scull.
Micah: I'm Micah Tannenbaum.
Richard: And I'm Richard Reid.
Andrew: We'll see you next time for Episode 215, where we will have Part Two of our Part 1 discussion. Haha, see what I did there?
Micah: Yeah, that was pretty clever.
Andrew: [laughs] Bye.
Micah: Not really. Bye.
[Show music continues]
Written by: The Transcribers