MuggleCast | The #1 Most-Listened to Harry Potter Podcast 3

MuggleCast 218 Transcript (continued)

Chapter-by-Chapter: "The First Task"

Micah: All right, so we move on to Chapter 20 and the first task of the Triwizard Tournament is finally here. The chapter opens with Hermione helping Harry prep for this task against the dragon and how one of the books that they research is called Men Who Love Dragons Too Much, and I was wondering, [laughs] was this written by Charlie Weasley, or perhaps something that he found quite interesting during his time at Hogwarts or afterward?

Andrew: I'm sure he found it quite interesting sure.

Micah: Well, J.K. Rowling said that in an interview, that that was his passion in life...

Eric: Was Charlie Weasley...

Micah: ...was dragons.

Eric: I'm sorry. I can't even...

Micah: Never married.

Eric: Yeah, it was dragons.

Micah: It was just dragons. That's all he cared about.

Eric: Never married. Yeah, I think - I keep thinking of this Wizard Rock song which is called "1991: Charlie Weasley" by the artist Tonks and the Aurors, and it's all about this. It's about unrequited love. Some girl is really into Charlie Weasley, but for her birthday he gets her a dragon skull, and for their anniversary, he just forgot the anniversary because he's too into dragons. That's what it's about. It's a great song. But yeah, I think that this definitely fits with the lifestyle that Charlie Weasley has chosen for himself.

Micah: Now, one question, though, is if Ron was there, do you think they'd be taking a little bit more of a practical approach on how to defeat the dragon as opposed to looking in books? Because this doesn't really seem like something you're going to find an answer to in a book.

Eric: Why not?

Richard: I thought it'd be a quite easy thing to find an answer to. I'm surprised they didn't find it.

Andrew: Yeah, like "Self-defense if you ever encounter a dragon," sure.

Eric: "What to do when you know a dragon is coming."

Micah: I guess, I guess. So, going back to Andrew's point in the last chapter, Krum shows up with his fan club and, of course, this really ticks Hermione off, and so we continue to see that she's not really happy. Now, I guess we can assume that she's not very happy because she, in fact, likes Krum and doesn't like seeing the attention that he's getting from all these other girls. Is that pretty accurate?

Richard: I think it's more the noise of those girls distracting Hermione when she's trying to think.

Micah: Yeah, that could be it, too.

Richard: The noise.

Micah: And, of course she makes the comment, "His fan club will be here in a moment, twittering away," and I thought, "Twitter?"

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: J.K. Rowling could have had...

Andrew: That's what I thought, too.

Micah: ...a gold mine. Another gold mine.

Andrew: I know.

Micah: When was this book released?

Eric: J.K.R...

Andrew: Like, 2000.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: 2001, maybe?

Andrew: No, 2000.

Micah: 2000. Oh, okay. Yeah, so - I mean, when did Twitter come out? Seven years later? J.K. Rowling could have...

Eric: [laughs] J.K. Rowling invented...

Micah: ...been swimming in billions of more dollars than she currently has.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: And she kind of used the word correctly, too, in the way that you would expect with, like twittering, "Oh my God, Krum!" tweet.

Eric: Where with at reply Viktor Krum.

[Richard laughs]

Andrew: Right.

Micah: So again, another point that [laughs] Andrew mentioned in the last chapter, Harry ends up letting Cedric know about the dragons. And what does this say about his character? Because with the way he's been treated, not necessarily by Cedric but by the other houses and even some people in Gryffindor, he's kind of been treated pretty badly. So, this could have given him an easy leg up over Cedric, but again, he decided the right thing to do was to go and tell him.

Richard: But I don't think Harry is in this for the competition. He's been stuck in it.

Andrew: No, he's in it to live.

Richard: Exactly.

Andrew: [laughs] That's it.

Richard: I don't think he cares about winning.

Eric: Harry is an equal opportunity provider kind of guy. He makes sure...

Andrew: Well, and then, that was the Gryffindor in him.

Eric: Well, that and Cedric is unlike the other students, Cedric is part of Hogwarts, too. And it would look bad in the grand scheme of things if Hogwarts - two of four champions are from Hogwarts and if Hogwarts didn't win.

Richard: I don't know. I think Harry is just innately good and doesn't really consider it like that.

Micah: So, after he tells Cedric about the dragons, Moody kind of comes around the corner and reveals that he was eavesdropping on the conversation, and he brings Harry along to his office saying what a great thing it was that Harry had just done. But we get our first look at his Dark Detectors, a number of different objects that he has around his office, and I thought he offered a bunch of lies about the Secrecy Sensor and the Sneakoscope because clearly they would both be detecting him and - so he kind of feeds Harry a little bit of B.S. about why they're not working properly, and what do you guys think?

Richard: Yeah, because he said he deactivated them all from students cheating exams or something like that.

Micah: Right...

Eric: [laughs] This is funny.

Micah: ...which seems like a pretty lame excuse, to say, "Oh, well with all the lying that's going on around this school with students at every corner, of course these things don't work."

Eric: No, [laughs] I like that a lot, actually.

Micah: Did you really? [laughs]

Eric: I did, though, because it just seems like that would be this - you're in a secondary school or...

Micah: That's true.

Eric: ...middle school on up. That's definitely what they would...

Micah: Well, that gets rid of the Secrecy Sensor, but what about the Sneakoscope?

Eric: Well, the Sneakoscope - well, doesn't Harry have one of those and it never works, or he keeps it in his sock? I mean...

Richard: Yeah, they're not reliable.

Eric: ...they're not very reliable to begin with. And then there's the issue of allegiance where, whose Sneakoscope is it? If it were the real Professor Moody's Sneakoscope, it would go off when Barty Crouch Jr. is nearby. But if it were Barty Crouch Jr.'s Sneakoscope, then it wouldn't, right?

Richard: In theory, yeah.

Eric: Because it's only - it's letting Barty Crouch Jr. know when somebody is sneaking, so it just depends on whose it is and - I don't really understand. It's just telling us something with these Dark Detectors and obviously the Foe Glass becomes important later, but it's really all subjective because you just don't know what to make out of it. It's one of those things where it's a really cool thing to read and have, but you can't get the full picture just by looking at that.

Micah: Right, and we do also get...

Eric: It's just...

Micah: ...a look at the Foe Glass, and we can talk about this a little bit, but what it does is it reveals true allegiances and kind of weeds out those who are fake or have ill intent. And it later reveals what Snape's true allegiance is and people went back to this as kind of a sticking point when Deathly Hallows had yet to come out, to kind of debate one way or the other, is Snape good or is he evil? And a lot of people, a lot of the things that we saw, used this particular scene - or not this scene, but the scene at the end of Goblet of Fire where McGonagall and Dumbledore and Snape bust into Moody's office, and you see all three of them very clearly in the Foe Glass.

Richard: Maybe in that case, Voldemort should have gotten one of those Foe Glasses. [laughs]

Micah: Yeah!

Richard: Then he would have known whether or not...

Micah: Would have solved his problems.

Richard: ...Snape would have stabbed him in the back.

Micah: Yeah.

Richard: Exactly.

Eric: [laughs] Oh man. But wouldn't everybody show up in Voldemort's Foe Glass? Because he's really - he has no friends, he's all for himself.

Richard: That's also very true.

Eric: Maybe they don't work on him.

Micah: Now, during this meeting, Moody tells Harry cheating is common in the Triwizard Tournament, we spoke a little bit about this before. But should this be the case? I mean, this is not your typical Quidditch match or something along those lines. This seems like this is a very drawn out, lengthy event between a number of different schools, so you would expect there to be a little bit of foul play going on. Nothing that's going to really alter the tournament that drastically, but a little small move here and there.

Eric: Well, in this case, the cheating allows them to actually prepare for the tasks. When tasks are set three or four months apart at a time, there's also more time for the secrets to get out and it's a lot harder to keep something - well, especially a dragon - under wraps, so to speak, and literally.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: And...

Andrew: It's huge. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah. Yeah, it's big.

Micah: So, Moody does give Harry some advice during this meeting that they have and he eventually puts everything together, and he begins to practice the Summoning Charm. And, of course, he's going to use this later on to get his Firebolt, and be able to get around the dragon and capture the egg. But I wanted to point out some movie differences that take place with respect to the first task. Barty Crouch Sr. replaces Ludo Bagman for the selecting of the dragons and I was wondering why he was never cast. I mean, he plays a relatively large role in the book, but we never see him at all in the movie.

Richard: I think I remember...

Eric: Barty Crouch Sr.?

Micah: No, Ludo Bagman.

Eric: Oh.

Richard: For Goblet of Fire, I think I remember the director saying that any scene that didn't really involve Harry was just cut automatically, and if a character didn't really involve Harry - because Ludo Bagman was more to do with the twins chasing him - then they just cut it.

Andrew: I think - yeah, and I think they stick with that for most of the films, too. If it doesn't involve Harry, let's put it on the chopping block.

Eric: I'm glad this change was made, though, because when Barty Crouch Sr. is in it - like Fleur pulls out the Chinese dragon and Barty Crouch Sr. is, like, "Ooh!" [laughs]

Micah: Well, he was completely...

Eric: Remember, he says it?

Micah: ...demented in that movie.

Richard: I...

Eric: "Ooh!" [laughs]

Micah: And Harry, also - in that scene, he never utters aloud what dragon he has because, if you remember, Barty Crouch Sr. turns to him and says - what does he say? "Excuse me?" or, "What?" because Harry knew the Hungarian Horntail was the last dragon that was in there...

Eric: Oh, yeah.

Micah: ...but Harry, in the book, keeps it to himself. Rita Skeeter never shows up in the tent before the challenge, she actually shows up when Harry and Ron are on their way back into the Great Hall. The dragon...

Eric: Well, hang on, in the movie or in the book?

Micah: What's that? She doesn't show up in the tent before the challenge in the book. She does in the movie.

Eric: Yeah, okay. Yeah, right.

Micah: In the book she shows up when they're on their way back to the castle. The dragon chase scene never happened in the book, obviously that was made for the movie screen, and I think it worked, right?

Eric: I think it worked well because there's the logistics of having a dragon in a small, enclosed area, to actually be able to show - they would have had to place cameras in the crowd essentially for the whole thing to see a dragon - this huge dragon that's pretty much the size of the ring, from what I gather, is just floating above the ring, it doesn't seem realistic that the dragon would hover, like that that's all the dragon would do. He needs to have room to swipe and sweep. I like what they did, I like the dragon chase scene.

Micah: All right. And then the scene between Hermione, Ron and Harry, that takes place in the common room, not the tent. Of course, it takes place in the common room in the movie. It takes place in the tent right afterwards in the book. So, a little...

Andrew: Well, there's an easy explanation for that one. They wanted to get people ready for a lot of tent action in the seventh film...

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: they wrote all this Goblet of Fire tent action. Yeah, so that's easy.

Micah: But those are just some of the differences. But going back to when Harry first gets down to the tent, Bagman seems very, very interested in helping Harry and so I was wondering, does he have a little bit of money on the match? He kind of gives...

Andrew: Probably.

Micah: ...these underhanded reasons for, "Oh, well, you must be nervous," or, "You got thrown into this." And he seems like he's willing to do anything to help out Harry and I can't remember later if it's revealed that he has money on it but I wouldn't doubt it.

Richard: Yeah, he did. He was trying to pay off all his debts by betting on Harry to win.

Micah: [laughs] Well, maybe Ludo put in his name in the Goblet of Fire!

Andrew: There's a lot of gambling...

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: ...going on in these books so that would not surprise me.

Micah: A lot of just bad things are happening in this book.

Andrew: [laughs] And you know what?

Micah: Go ahead.

Andrew: Well, I was just going to say to sum up these two chapters - I know you're not done yet - but there's a lot of new information going on in this - being shared in these two chapters which was nice to see.

Micah: Yeah. And so we get to the actual task itself and it's actually a bit uneventful compared to the movie where you have the chase scene. And Harry ends up getting the egg and you get a little bit of a picture about how much McGonagall actually cares for Harry. She has a shaky sort of voice before the task when she leads him down to the tent, and then her hand shook as he pointed - as she pointed rather - at his shoulder after he's a bit injured from the dragon in that task. And again, I don't know if that goes back to Sorcerer's Stone, when she is there the night that they delivered him to the Dursleys, or really - what do you guys think?

Eric: I think she's aware, very clearly, that he has been marked for death, that this boy can just not catch a break. It's true! And little does she know, because of the prophecy, the specifics, because Dumbledore won't tell her that. But I feel like she really does feel bad for Harry and she really is looking after him. She's the purest - he can rely on that, you know?

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: She really feels bad for him. She knows that he's been marked for these great, terrible things.

Micah: But it also seems that she cares for him more than just a teacher would care for their student.

Eric: That's true, and I think in Book 3 when she refuses to sign his Hogsmeade permission slip, it's the same deal where she doesn't want to put him in any more danger than he normally would be. She wants to keep him safe in the castle as opposed to roaming the grounds, and it's just this mother - this trend - of her to be really caring for him because there is nobody else, especially at Hogwarts, to really look after Harry, who is capable. I mean, there is Hermione, but she's not an adult.

Micah: Right. But you also see it in Deathly Hallows as well, when Harry comes to her defense. It's kind of reciprocated in that way.

Eric: Which is nice.

Micah: And so, as mentioned, just to wrap it up, Harry does get the egg and he's greeted afterwards by Hermione and Ron, and they end up patching things up. So, Harry now has Ron...

Andrew: Phew!

Micah: ...back at his side heading into Chapter 21, and Rita Skeeter tries to get a quote or a little bit of story from Harry on the way back up to the castle but he basically tells her to G.F.H.

Listener Tweets: Most Upsetting Plot Cuts From Harry Potter Films

Andrew: And that's Chapter-by-Chapter this week and if you have any feedback about what we discussed today, feel free to mosey on over to, and there you can click on "Contact" at the top and share - fill out the feedback form and share your feedback, whether you agree or disagree with anything we said, if you have other ideas, etc. Today's Twitter question, we asked you, the loyal listener, out of all the books, which big plot cut from the films upset you the most? Because we kind of briefly touched on it in Chapter-by-Chapter this week with some book-to-film differences and I thought, "Well, have we ever asked this question? I don't think we have." RayLoveNexis wrote:

"There is no Quidditch in 'Order of the Phoenix'."

elizabeth515 wrote:

"Movie 3: who the original Marauders were and that Harry's Dad was one, that he knew Sirius and Lupin."

Those are all pretty big story items.

Eric: And she fit them all into one tweet, too, [laughs] which is...

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: ...pretty amazing.

Richard: [laughs] Skills.

Micah: What would have been the point of including Quidditch in Order of the Phoenix? I mean, Umbridge bans it anyway, though.

Eric: Well, there's that.

Andrew: People just like to watch Quidditch, I think.

Eric: Well, there's so much going in - even in, what was it, Movie 4? Or no, Movie 3. They're just in the rain that one scene, it goes by so fast, there is just so much else going on in the movie. Even if they had put Quidditch in, what would it mean? What would it amount to? With the exception of the - what is it, "Weasley is Our King"? Or is that Book 6, too? I mean - is that Book 5 in the books?

Richard: That's Book 5.

Andrew: Vanillarface wrote:

"SPEW! It showed Hermione's Gryffindorness, and her passion and strong sense of right and wrong. It made her a character in her own right."

Eric: David Heyman...

Andrew: Very well said!

Eric: ...had a response for this. [laughs] It's from...

Andrew: What was his response? I forget.

Eric: ...our Episode 200. It was, like, [imitating David Heyman] "But if you include those things, the film would be, like, eight hours long, and..."

Andrew: Psh, yeah, we know.

Eric: But he was sincere. He was sincere about it. He was, like, it really would be - I don't know. A lot of house-elves, it would just - think of the trailer where they go down to the kitchens and there's, "Hi, Harry Potter!" and all the house-elves say, "Hi Harry Potter!" [laughs] It would be weird. It would be done - it would have been cheesy in the film because that's where I think - that's what Newell would have done it as, what would be kind of - because remember, even the students in Movie 4 are like hooligans, like soccer hooligans. They're so big and tall, and I think that the house-elves just would have been kind of crazy. There was no room for them in that film.

Andrew: SparklyPatronus wrote:

"I think in 'Order of the Phoenix', I hated when they cut Lily from Snape's memory."

That was another big one that people were looking forward to. Sort of in Half-Blood Prince, too. We were looking for that backstory, but we didn't get as much as we had hoped.

Eric: Hmm, yeah.

Richard: That was my biggest...

Eric: The fact that Snape's memory was - yeah?

Richard: Yeah, when they cut most of the - it was actually when they cut all the Pensieve scenes.

Micah: Yeah.

Richard: They cut most of them, at least.

Andrew: Yeah, they did.

Richard: That was like a slaughter.

Micah: Well, how...

Andrew: But I think the ones that they had were really well done.

Richard: Didn't they only have, like, one?

Andrew: Slughorn and - well, right, Slughorn and Tom Riddle, that was so good.

Eric: Yeah, as much as I would like to see the Gaunts...

Micah: And the orphanage one was well done, too, I thought.

Richard: Yeah, that's true. There were two.

Micah: But Hepzibah Smith - I mean, that's a big cut because I don't know how they're going to explain it in Part 2.

Andrew: hfsargeant wrote:

"It's got to be the Marauders. That was my favorite part of 'Prisoner of Azkaban' and it was just pretty much absent."

Eric: Yeah. Micah, has Deathly Hallows: Part 1 beat out Prisoner of Azkaban as highest grossing yet?

Micah: Oh yeah. I mean, Prisoner of Azkaban, I don't even know that it's in the top 25 anymore. I don't think it is.

Eric: Okay.

Andrew: You know a lot - I'm looking through all the Twitter responses. A lot of people said the Marauders. They were really looking forward...

Micah: Yeah!

Andrew: the Marauders.

Micah: And I don't think we - did we talk to David Heyman about that at all? I can't remember...

Eric: Oh, I should have.

Micah: ...but that for me is the biggest cut, and it was a senseless cut by Alfonso to do that because I thought it was such an easy thing to include. You're talking about maybe five to ten minutes more.

Eric: Explaining that Harry has family and that he's no different from his family, it's this really comforting moment. And Alfonso, I feel, was - even the filmmakers - all of the filmmakers, at that time, for that film - were going for a more whimsy, "Look at the kind of stuff Harry gets thrown into, it's funny..."

Micah: "Watch the tree kill the bird!" I mean... [laughs]

Eric: ...thing.

Andrew: A lot of people also mentioned Winky being cut out of Goblet of Fire, and I have to agree. Me, personally, S.P.E.W. - I was in love with that chapter or that whole plot in Goblet of Fire - and we'll talk about it more next episode because the next chapter is about S.P.E.W. And yeah, so that was upsetting for me, personally. So, those were some Twitter responses. If you'd like to get in on this Twitter action when we ask a question on Twitter, then we read your responses, just follow us on Twitter. Our handle is

Muggle Mail: Emma Watson Impressions

Andrew: Let's get to some Muggle Mail now! This first one comes from Cassandra, 14, of California. She writes:

"Next year, I will be entering high school. I'm currently freaked out about finals, tests, friends, and just the overall process of transitioning into high school. Throughout these times, though, it's you amazing people who keep me smiling. When I'm struggling with friendships, I know that I can always count on you guys to make me laugh and brighten up my day. I'm the kind of person who will randomly burst out into uncontrollable fits of laughter in the middle of class because I'm remembering something hilarious from last month's MuggleCast episode. You all are like my own little circle of 'Harry Potter' BFFs, even though I've never met half of you! Each host has their own unique personality which really shows how amazing you are as a whole. I'm so fortunate that 'Harry Potter' and MuggleCast have been a part of my childhood. Even though the movies will soon come to a close, I know the fandom will never end because it will live on in the hearts of 'Harry Potter' fans, and that it will all grow stronger as generations of children after us stumble upon the 'Harry Potter' books for years to come. Keep up the amazing work! Love, Cassandra."

And she says:

"P.S. Andrew, do you think you could do another one of your Emma Watson impressions like you did in Episode 204? That would really make my day. Thanks, you're the best!"

So, this was kind of a - this was a Chicken Soup, but for some reason it was in Muggle Mail.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: That was my fault.

[Eric laughs]

Micah: And the person clearly adores you, Andrew.

Andrew: She mentioned me at the end.

Richard: I've never heard this impression.

Andrew: I'm trying to think what it was. I think it was her Twitter. Here, let me look at her most recent tweets and I'll read one of them.

Eric: [laughs] You're stalking one of our followers.

[Richard laughs]

Andrew: [poorly imitating Emma Watson] "Happy New Year everyone! Hope you all had a good one. X"

Micah: Great job, great job.

Eric: [laughs] 'X'? The 'X'...

Andrew: [poorly imitating Emma Watson] "Hi guys, are you all ready for Christmas? Not long to go now. Exams all done and I'm back in the U.K. in six inches..." [normal voice] Six inches of snow, I'm sure she meant.

[Eric and Micah laugh]

Andrew: "I'm back in the UK in six inches." Hmm.

Eric: Oh, you're reading Emma Watson's tweets?

Andrew: That was an unfortunate cut off on Twitter. Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: [poorly imitating Emma Watson] "The snow is pretty but am I going to be able to get out tonight?!" [normal voice] That's a horrible impression, I hope that's the one I did...

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: ...on Episode 204 because then you'll like it. Otherwise...

Richard: It's like listening to a human laxative.

Andrew: Urgh!

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Sorry, Richard.

Eric: What? Urgh.

Andrew: Eric, could you read the next e-mail, please?

Muggle Mail: Team StarKid

Eric: [laughs] This one comes from Ellie, age 16, of Pennsylvania. Hey! Wow, okay.

"Dear MuggleCast guys, two quick things. First, on your last episode, 217, I was happy to hear that one of the e-mails you'd received used the phrase "supermegafoxyawesomehot," but I was extremely disappointed that you guys didn't know where it came from, or if you did, you didn't acknowledge it. The phrase is from 'A Very Potter Musical' and it's Harry's - played by Darren Criss - description of Cho Chang."


"And this leads me to my second point. You guys really should talk about Team StarKid, the guys who brought us 'A Very Potter Musical' and 'A Very Potter Sequel', both of which have a huge following in the 'Potter' fandom. As far as I know, you've only mentioned 'A Very Potter Musical' once on a show and 'A Very Potter Sequel' not at all. This just can't be. StarKid has become a huge part of the 'Potter' fandom for a lot of people and it needs to be acknowledged! This summer I was as excited if not more so for the release of the second musical on YouTube than I was for the release of the seventh 'Harry Potter' film. I'm sure I speak for many MuggleCast/StarKid fans when I say I'd love it if you guys mentioned Team Starkid on the show every once in a while since even though they aren't technically a real part of the fandom, they are still definitely a part. Thanks guys! Love the show!"

Andrew: Yeah, so she's absolutely right. "A Harry Potter Musical" has - A Very Potter Musical, excuse me - has become very popular, it's been huge on YouTube. I'm looking at the play now. Each act of the play has pretty much at least a million views, and it has a huge following because there are some really great songs. It's just funny and I think the timing seemed right. The concept of a Harry Potter musical is one that our fandom could really embrace. So, if you haven't already checked out A Very Potter Musical, you should...

Eric: And its sequel.

Andrew: And its sequel, A Very Potter Sequel.

Eric: But we will warn they are both three hours long. It's insane but it's good. They're both very good.

Andrew: At least check out the opening scene of the first one. I think that will give you a good impression of what's to come. It's well written, like I said, the songs are pretty good and the cast - it's just a good part of the fandom. If you want to check it out, you can go to

Eric: So...

Andrew:, then you can click A Very Potter Musical on the right. And by the way, we have mentioned them on MuggleNet before, they have been in our Year in Reviews, both the 2009 and 2010 Year in Reviews under "The Videos of the Year."

Eric: It's true.

Andrew: So, it's not like we've ignored them or anything. And Darren Criss, the lead, was at the Deathly Hallows premiere in November in New York City, and we made a news post about that, our little interview with him. And he was very excited to see the fan sites there on the red carpet, as we were excited to see him. So, that's the Very Potter Musical craze.

Eric: Andrew, did you get my text? You got to keep that in. It's a musical reference.

Andrew: Oh, okay. [laughs] I was like, "What?" I checked my phone.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: And no, I did not get a text. Okay, Micah, could you read the next e-mail?

Muggle Mail: Symbolism of Dobby's Death

Micah: Next e-mail comes from Robyn, 19, of England, and she says:

"Hey, I'm unsure if you have mentioned/discussed this in previous MuggleCasts and I apologize if so. But anyways, I saw the 'Deathly Hallows: Part 1' recently and I left the cinema feeling that Dobby was meant to symbolize or be an analogy for the children who are killed in war. I thought that the film had a very political feel to it, for example, the emphasis on propaganda and the sculpture of oppression in the Ministry. I found that the way in which Harry cradled him emphasized the analogy and also thought the way that Hermione passed his body, wrapped in the sheet, to Harry was very moving in how she took so much care in doing so, his body was so small. I was just curious to know whether you guys felt this or anything similar. Thanks for providing hours of enjoyable listening."

Andrew: I think that's a cool idea. I agree with that.

Eric: I think...

Andrew: It's like a child.

Eric: Yeah, it is like a child. I feel like we will see more of that in Part 2, with obviously some of the younger students that do not make it at the end of the war. But I don't think the film did have an emphasis on propaganda as this e-mail writes because I feel like the book was even more so about the propaganda than in the movie. I want to say it's still glossed over in the movie. There is that scene where it's really intense, but I think the book much more so was about where the world is in terms of Nazism and evoking those historical ideas. I think the book was even more intense.

Andrew: Richard, could you read the next e-mail, please? From Caroline?

Muggle Mail: Weird Places People Listen to MuggleCast

Richard: From Caroline, age 13, from Illinois:

"This year, the 6th, 7th, and 8th grade classes went to Springfield, Illinois. It's a four-hour bus ride from our extremely small - so small the 6th, 7th, and 8th graders plus the chaperones and teachers fit on one bus - on our school trip to Springfield. The bus we took to Springfield was probably the weirdest place I've ever listened to MuggleCast. Whenever I would laugh because one of the hosts said something funny, I would get strange looks from everyone on the bus because they had no idea what I was laughing at. Thanks for putting a smile on my face whenever I listen to the show. Caroline."

Muggle Mail: Ron in Malfoy Manor Torture Scene

Andrew: A nice little story. And finally today from Zoe, age 15 - well, let me try that again. And finally today, before a Chicken Soup, this next one is from Zoe, 15, of Texas:

"Hey guys, I've just started listening, but I'm already addicted to your show. Anyway, I wanted your opinions on something in 'Deathly Hallows: Part 1'. As I'm a die hard Ron and Hermione shipper, in the book during the Malfoy Manor torture scene, I distinctively remember how Ron was sobbing and kept yelling Hermione's name. I was really looking forward to seeing that on the big screen as I thought it was a very touching moment, but when I saw the movie all I got from Ron in the scene was more angst. Do you think they cut it out because they felt it was unnecessary to the plot, or because Rupert is even worse than Dan at crying on cue? I'd love to know what your thoughts were on this. Again, love the show and take care."

Richard: I doubt he's worse than Dan at acting.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Oh, geez.

Andrew: Oh wow, that's horrible.

Richard: Just had to get that in there. [laughs]

Eric: Well, you did it. You did it. It's done now, Richard. There is no going back.

Andrew: I thought Rupert was a great actor in this film.

Eric: He was.

Andrew: I've made that clear before.

Richard: Yeah, I agree.

Eric: Absolutely. Micah, what do you think?

Micah: I think she's not the only one that wrote in about this. A lot of people said that it was a point that was left out and I don't see why they couldn't have included it. I mean, they showed enough shots of them down there with the other characters and so...

Andrew: Maybe they don't want to show Ron as a weak character.

Eric: Well no, it's...

Andrew: I mean, you don't...

Eric: I don't feel like that's the case. I feel like - remember guys - I mean, we posted news about this - everybody - the filmmakers, all of them, including the actors on set - were really creeped out by Emma and Helena Bonham Carter's torture scene.

Andrew: Right.

Eric: They didn't know how much of it to include. David Heyman likened it to a Saw film in its original, unedited form. Emma and Helena, when Bellatrix is torturing Hermione, it was just this thing that they went with and it scared all of them that I think this whole scene, if something is cut out, like Ron crying, I think it's because they just didn't want to make it any more intense than they felt it really was. And I think the final product in the film is okay. I feel like they could have pushed the envelope a little bit further, but all the reports are saying that that scene was just so intense that it just seems that everybody was irked about it, that they just didn't know how much was enough and how much was too much. I think they settled for the safe side. So, I think that's why you won't find Rupert - I'm sure he could cry, and I'm sure that he would be good doing it. But I think that's why you won't see more of a reaction to that because they were just kind of trying to skip it, trying to get through it as fast as they could.

Micah: Yeah...

Andrew: Well...

Micah: Go ahead.

Andrew: And to also revise what I just said right before Eric, I think that Ron had this big turn-around moment after destroying the Horcrux and for him to go back and sort of get all sobby wouldn't have fit in with this new, strong Ron who - king of the world, can conquer anything.

Eric: I get that.

Andrew: That was a big moment for him, so to go into a crying mood would have kind of contradicted this big Horcrux moment he just had.

Micah: Yeah, the other part, though, that a lot of people wrote in about that kind of relates to this in terms of things that were cut was when Harry doesn't have that conversation with Ron, right after the Horcrux is destroyed, about how he loves Hermione but as a sister. And people thought that was a huge plot point that got left out, and it kind of relates into this because maybe you would have seen more emotion out of Ron in this scene if they had included that because there is no discrepancy anymore, there is no question about who is into who, it's clearly defined. And people thought that that was a big moment in the books, and it kind of just got left out by the director.

Eric: I think it separates because the audience then would be expecting Ron to care more than Harry. So, it would essentially give Harry an excuse not to cry when Hermione is being tortured because he only likes her as a sister, whereas Ron likes her as more than that. It just - I don't see that that distinction needed to exist. On the other hand, David Yates has been accused of being a Harry/Hermione shipper. It's in all of his films that he's done where they have these tender moments and I don't think that's wrong, but I think that's probably also why that scene was cut.

Chicken Soup for the MuggleCast Soul

Andrew: And finally one more Chicken Soup today. This comes from Annie, 16, of Wisconsin:

"I have started listening recently, maybe last three months or so, and I have really enjoyed going back to old episodes and listening. I live in a small town and not many people are quite as into 'Harry Potter' as I am, and I am proud to say that I am known as the 'Harry Potter' girl at school. I will randomly shout out 'Harry Potter' references pretty much on a daily basis. However this isn't the point. My English class has been reading 'Les Miserables' and we have lots of socratic discussions. I have noticed that I have really improved in these discussions ever since I have listened to your guys' discussions on MuggleCast! So, thanks a bunch for the good grade in English this semester! Oh, and the wonderful show you guys make!"

So thanks, Annie, for that. I've got to say, these episodes of MuggleCast have not helped me do better in my English classes in school.

Micah: [laughs] Have you listened to them after?

Andrew: What do you mean? My school discussions?

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: No.

Micah: Have you listened to...

Andrew: Maybe I should - it'd be better if I hosted them, I think.

Micah: Yeah, there you go.

Eric: [laughs] Yeah.

Micah: Well, it's good to see that we have this effect and that people are doing well in English because of...

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: They listen to the discussions that we have on the show.

Andrew: And we've gotten e-mails, I think some of the biggest - what am I trying to say? Some of the nicest messages we've heard about the impact of MuggleCast have been when teachers have e-mailed in and said they've played our discussions as examples of good literary discussions. That's a very nice compliment, so...

Eric: Good old Mr. Nelson back from the old...

Micah: [laughs] Oh yeah, wow.

Eric: He was one of the first teachers who wrote in.

Andrew: I remember that, yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: One of the first teachers who wrote in saying that. Although teachers should be the ones to host the discussion. I think, Andrew, if you hosted the discussion you'd be instant messaging the teachers secretly and saying, "Hey, hey, you're popping. You're popping."

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: "You've got to move your mic," [laughs] because you're a perfectionist, but that's why the show sounds so good.

Andrew: Yeah, true to that.

Eric: I tried to make a joke, but, really, I love you.

Micah: That was Episode 5, September 3rd, 2005.

Eric: Jesus.

Andrew: Wow.

Eric: So, very early on.

Andrew: He should e-mail in again if he still listens.

Eric: He really should because that would be wonderful to hear.

Show Close

Andrew: Before we wrap up the show today, I want to plug a new podcast that...

Micah: Smart Mouths!

Andrew: ...Ben Schoen...

Micah: Oh no, sorry.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Is that over now for good?

Micah: Yes.

Andrew: Yes. I want to plug a new podcast that Ben Schoen and I are now doing. It's called HYPE! HYPE!, you can download the first episode and actually the second episode will be out by the time - well, likely, by the time you hear this. HYPE is about pretty much anything and everything causing hype at the moment, and we sort of determine if it deserves that hype. And the difference with this podcast that Ben and I are doing is that we're recording it together in person, and I think that makes a big difference in the sound of the show, the rapport, the chemistry, etc. So, visit and I hope you enjoy this new entertainment-tech podcast that Ben and I are doing.

Micah: Well, thank you, Andrew.

Andrew: Again, it's...

Micah: Thank you for hyping up HYPE.

Andrew: Oh, you're welcome.

Eric: Is it an acronym, Andrew?

Andrew: No, it's not.

Micah: You should make it one.

Andrew: It's just - well, because Ben said it should have the word "hype" in it and I said, "Well, let's just call it HYPE." And we were, like, "Okay." While you're visiting, why don't you also hop over to to get all the information you need about this show. As we mentioned earlier, there's a contact link at the top where you can fill out a feedback form to get in touch with us. And on the right side of the site you can find links to subscribe and review us on iTunes, follow us on Twitter, and like us on Facebook. And by doing all those things, you will stay up to date with the latest episodes, topic questions, various things.

[Show music begins]

Andrew: So, visit for everything you need. Thanks everyone for listening! I'm Andrew Sims.

Eric: I'm Eric Scull.

Micah: I'm Micah Tannenbaum.

Richard: And I'm Richard Reid.

Andrew: And we'll see you next time for Episode 219. Buh-bye!

Micah: Bye!

Eric: Bye!

[Show music continues]

Written by: The Transcribers