MuggleCast | The #1 Most-Listened to Harry Potter Podcast 3

MuggleCast 223 Transcript

Show Intro

["Hedwig's Theme" plays]

Andrew: Because we want everybody to be happy, this is MuggleCast Episode 223 for March 20th, 2011.

[Show music begins]

Andrew: This week's episode of MuggleCast is brought to you by, the Internet's leading provider of audiobooks, with more than 75,000 downloadable titles across all types of literature, including fiction, non-fiction, and periodicals. For a free audiobook of your choice, go to

[Show music continues]

Andrew: Welcome to MuggleCast Episode 223! Micah, Richard, and I here this week. Hello guys!

Richard: Hello.

Micah: Hello.

Andrew: Richard, I understand you're trying to brave the fans this episode. You're turning a new leaf.

Richard: I am not going to insult Daniel Radcliffe's acting once, not even once.

Andrew: [laughs] But what about anything else?

Richard: Oh. Well, then it's fair game.

Andrew: [laughs] Oh, okay. I always thought that people were just upset that you just appeared on the show out of nowhere and then [laughs] you were just...

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: ...trashing the movie. They didn't get a chance to learn about you or anything.

[Richard laughs]

Andrew: [laughs] Just out of the blue, here's this guy...

Richard: I'm just miserable. Yeah, I'm just an angry, angry man.

Andrew: Yeah, apparently. And that's what happens when you live in Scotland.

Richard: And I live in - not anymore.

Andrew: And now Britain, you're right. So, now you're turning a new leaf.

Richard: Yeah, exactly. I'm going to be happy and everything.

Andrew: [laughs] Okay, wonderful. I'm Andrew Sims.

Micah: I'm Micah Tannenbaum.

Richard: And I'm an upbeat Richard Reid.

Andrew: [laughs] Okay.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: What's in the news, Micah?

News: Deathly Hallows - Part 2 Sneak Peek

Micah: ABC Family had a 'Harry Potter Weekend' and one of the things that we were all looking forward to is the sneak peek at Deathly Hallows - Part 2, and we got the sneak peek on Thursday night. There were a couple of other videos that aired that didn't really pertain as much to Part 2 but this was what we were looking for. It was kind of a mini trailer in a way, with voiceovers by some of the actors and producer David Heyman, David Barron, as well as David Yates, the director. And we got some new scenes and - what did you guys think overall? I mean, too much? Too little? Wet your appetite for an actual trailer?

Andrew: I thought it was too little because I was expecting this was going to be some sort of all new look at Part 2 and it was really - there were some new shots but then there was a lot of stuff we had seen in the Part 1/Part 2 preview a year and a half ago when the Half-Blood Prince DVD came out. So, that annoyed me, to be honest with you. But the new stuff was exciting to see. I just - my expectations were not met.

Richard: I thought it was actually the perfect amount because it wasn't an actual trailer. It was just - it was like a sneak preview, so we got some old stuff, we got some new stuff. So, it built - it created enough hype for the trailer, I thought, so it was just the right amount.

Andrew: For that trailer that we still do not know the release date of.

Micah: April 1st.

Andrew: [laughs] April 1st?

Micah: Well, let's talk a little bit about some of the scenes that we did get a chance to see. Probably the one that most people were talking about was Ron and Molly Weasley over Fred's dead body, and a couple of people didn't like the fact that I put that out on MuggleNet's Twitter feed...

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: ...because apparently the fact that Fred dies is a spoiler. Now the book has been out...

[Richard laughs]

Micah: ...for four years and I know the movies do things differently but they generally don't change the people who die in the film. So...

[Andrew and Richard laugh]

Micah: ...sorry you were spoiled if for whatever reason you have not read the seventh book yet, but then why you are - [laughs] never mind. I was going to say...

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: ...why you are following MuggleNet, I don't know. So...

Andrew: Well, believe it or not, there is an audience of people who just don't read the books. They are just movie fans.

Micah: Oh no, I know, I know.

Andrew: So...

Micah: And so to those people I apologize because if you have just seen the films and not read the books, then sorry. But that was probably the biggest scene, I think. And another with Ginny running from Arthur screaming, "No!" probably the scene where Hagrid is carrying in Harry's dead body. So, a lot of emotional scenes I think you saw in this and like you mentioned, there is some stuff from the previous trailer which was not new to us. We got a couple of other shots: Ron saying, "We can end this," Hermione consoling Harry, wondering what happened just before that. We got some new looks inside Gringotts as well as the actual dragon escaping. And there was a shot of two Death Eaters also, I wasn't sure who they were. Did you guys...

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: ...know who they are?

Andrew: I'm just watching it again and it just passed that as you said that. I think the one in the foreground is the one who we saw in Part 1 stopping the Hogwarts Express.

Micah: Right.

Andrew: I'm not - but I can't remember who that was.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: But...

Micah: I'm sure...

Andrew: any rate - yeah. I mean, it was a good preview. What can you say?

Richard: The one thing that did stuck out in that trailer for me was - do you know that scene where Harry and Voldemort's wand are sort of doing battle together, you see the light attacking each wand. I'm guessing that was never in the book, was it? Because they weren't surrounded by anyone in that scene in the preview but when they fought in the book, almost all the characters in the story were around them in Hogwarts.

Andrew: Yeah. Well, not to mention it was in the Great Hall, too, whereas this appears to be in the courtyard.

Richard: Yeah, outside by themselves.

Andrew: Yeah. And then there is also that shot of Voldemort holding Harry around his neck and that's not from the book either, so it's going to be interesting to see what the hell is going on here. I mean, maybe there is still going to be a final scene in the Great Hall. Maybe this is like a - the one outside is duel one and then the one in the Great Hall is duel two.

Richard: See...

Andrew: I just don't know how they couldn't make that completely loyal to the book.

Richard: I think that is the scene where Voldemort dies. I think that is where the spell backfired on him. I reckon it just skips out of the Great Hall and then kept outside, just Harry and Voldemort.

Andrew: And then what? People finally catch up to where the action was and they see what has taken place?

Richard: Yeah, I can just imagine them all...

[Andrew laughs]

Richard: ...slowly walking over to Voldemort's corpse.

Micah: And giving him a good kick in the side?

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah!

[Richard laughs]

Andrew: Kicking him, spitting on him.

Richard: Spitting on him.

Andrew: Tossing their shoes at him.

Richard: [laughs] Yeah.

Micah: Well, a couple of other things we did get a chance to see, one of Snape where he looks like he is backing up against a window. That probably is right before he dies. That was the scene, I think, that was also in the previous trailer. And...

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: ...we did get another shot of him, though, outside of the Potters' house in Godric's Hollow. And that was another...

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: ...scene that a lot of people were talking about. It looks like obviously they are going to do those flashbacks and they look pretty good.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. So, it's exciting and the 'Harry Potter Weekends' - I know a lot of people were watching because I was looking through the MuggleCast e-mail and we were getting a lot of e-mails about questions or things people noticed while watching the [laughs] 'Harry Potter Weekend', while watching those older Harry Potter movies.

Micah: Yeah. And one other scene real quick that I saw looks like somebody is putting up a protective spell or breaking that orange orb, whatever you want to call it, that is around...

Andrew: Around Hogwarts.

Micah: ...Hogwarts. It's like this blue spell. So, that should be cool to see because that - there is that scene in the book where McGonagall makes all the things come to life, and...

Andrew: Right.

Micah: ...makes Hogwarts come to life and defend itself. So, I think that's probably what that was but it's going to be interesting to see this. I mean, it's slowly starting to happen now. We're getting the previews and hopefully the trailer soon, and...

Andrew: Slowly but surely. People are thinking maybe the trailer will come with Sucker Punch which is a Warner Bros. film and we know Warner Bros. likes to release the Harry Potter trailers with Warner Bros. movies, so we'll see.

Micah: Yep.

Andrew: What else is going on in the news?

News: Prisoner of Azkaban named 'Film of the Decade'

Micah: My favorite movie - and yes, I'm being sarcastic - Prisoner of Azkaban was honored by First Light Awards with the 'Film of the Decade' and...

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Look, I'll just report the news, you guys can discuss it as you like.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: This award is voted for by the public in association with the BAFTA Kids Vote, and it's chosen by kids aged five to fifteen. And this was an award that David Heyman received...

Andrew: Accepted.

Micah: Accepted, yeah, for the Potter franchise. He is actually presented with the award by Clemence Poesy, and - so, interesting connection there, but...

Andrew: I just - listen, it's good that Harry Potter...

Micah: Is being recognized now?

Andrew:...won this award. No, no, no, no, but first of all, these people who gave the award, it's kind of random. It's no Oscar. And then when you look at what films it was up against for 'Film of the Decade' - I mean, that's a high honor. And the films it was against were Shrek, Whale Rider, Happy Feet, and Up. I mean, Up was a good film, too, but calling any of these 'Film of the Decade' I think is way off. [laughs] I don't know.

Micah: Yeah, you could be right. I think Shrek probably was - to me anyway, would probably be the stiffest competition for Potter.

Richard: Was the very first Shrek even [laughs] in the last decade?

Micah: Probably.

Andrew: I - apparently. [laughs]

[Richard laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, I guess so, early on. But - all right. Well, cool, good for Prisoner of Azkaban.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: Before we continue with today's episode, we'd like to remind you that this week's episode is brought to you by, the Internet's leading provider of audiobooks, with more than 75,000 downloadable titles across all types of literature and featuring audio versions of many New York Times Bestsellers. For listeners of this podcast, Audible is offering a free audiobook to give you a chance to try out their great service. It's a hot series lately, you should definitely check it out. So, for a free audiobook of your choice, such as The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, go to That's We thank Audible for their support of MuggleCast.

News: Potter-themed hotel at Leavesden Studios

Micah: Well, USA Today released some information earlier this morning, we're recording here on Sunday, and this was about The Making of Harry Potter that is going to open at Leavesden Studios in the spring of 2012. And apparently, part of this $160 million redevelopment is going to include a 120 room hotel that is Potter themed. So, you can go and check out Leavesden Studios and experience The Making of Harry Potter and you can also essentially for all intensive purposes stay at Hogwarts.

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: Which is cool.

Andrew: I have to say, though, I don't think this is going to be a full scale Harry Potter hotel. I think they will theme some of the rooms to be Harry Potter because also remember, the studio tour down the road, they said they are going to open it up to - you will be able to see other films that have shot at Leavesden Studios as well. So, it's not going to be just a Harry Potter tour. It will be at the beginning, but not down the road. So, I think they will have premium rooms that are Harry Potter themed for a price and those should be cool, definitely. It's definitely an extra selling point, too.

Micah: Yeah, no question about that. So...

Andrew: What could they put in the rooms, though? I mean, dress them as the Gryffindor common rooms? Or...

Micah: Well, it depends how much they're going to invest into it from a time standpoint, a money standpoint, and...

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: I think that you could go all out. I mean, you could make it look like Hogwarts if you wanted to...

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: could have the staff play the roles of different characters, and put in maybe a restaurant there or something that is in connection to the Potter series. So, a lot of different things that they could do and they're probably not going to spare any expense. I mean, like you said, I think to put a hotel there is a great idea because now you don't necessarily have to go from London out to Leavesden and back, even though you said it was a pretty short trip.

Andrew: Like forty-five minutes, but...

Micah: Yeah, but now you can stay there maybe an extra day and experience the hotel if maybe they are going to do some things and have some events for you to enjoy.

Andrew: Yeah, and they - I mean, if you think about it, they could almost make it how the Harry Potter theme park in Orlando has the Three Broomsticks, The Hog's Head. I mean, you could have a restaurant and bar in there. But I still think it's not going to be a complete Harry Potter hotel because it would only - people would only stay there if they're going to the museum. It's just not a good location for that kind of thing, I don't think.

Micah: Yeah, but it is clear that they're looking to take advantage of this...

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Micah: ...Leavesden Studios renovation, because so much talk has been going on about the fact that there's not a Potter theme park in London or in England. So, I think they're trying to compensate for that fact now by putting as much...

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: ...probably into this area as they possibly can.

Andrew: All right. So, that's exciting, Micah, but tell me more! I need more exciting news.

News: Harry Potter: The Exhibition Heading to New York City

Micah: More exciting news, Harry Potter: The Exhibition is not going overseas. It's not done with its North American tour as was initially thought and reported.

Andrew: [whispers] Liars!

Micah: It's going to be heading to New York City, and it's going to open in the not-too-distant future on April 5th. It will be at the Discovery Times Square marquee. And this is huge news because we thought it was going to be going somewhere internationally next, and something changed, I think, that caused them to want to go to New York City. I'm not sure what that is.

Andrew: Well, the fact that it's going to be in Times Square. I mean, the amount of traffic going through that exhibition is going to be insane.

Micah: Oh, it's unbelievable because...

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: ...if you think about it, even on a slow day, it's not going to be a slow day. If you have this...

Andrew: No.

Micah: Where was it just recently? In Seattle?

Andrew: Right, right.

Micah: Or even Boston, or Chicago. The thing is - or it was in Toronto as well, I think. Even if you have a slow day in one of those places, it's not going to be as busy, right? But in New York, slow is another city's regular busy. You know what I'm saying?

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: The tourism is never...

Andrew: It's going to be very popular.

Micah: Yeah, no question. So...

Andrew: Micah, you should get a job there...

[Richard laughs]

Andrew: ...being that you live in New York City.

Micah: [laughs] Being that I'm going to be unemployed in two weeks. How - this is perfect!

Andrew: Perfect timing! [laughs]

Micah: April 5th, it opens. I'm unemployed as of April 4th. It opens April 5th.

Andrew: I think this is a sign.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: We know the PR people. You can go to them and say, "Hey, I got -" because, don't the exhibition people have fake British accents?

Micah: Probably.

Andrew: So, start practicing your fake British accent and - say right now, "Welcome to Harry Potter: The Exhibition," in your best British accent for us.

Micah: Welcome to Harry Potter: The Exhibition.

Andrew: No, in a British accent.

Micah: That's my best British accent.

Andrew: Oh.

Richard: That sucked.

Andrew: That did suck.

Micah: Oh, wait, wait. Okay, let's try this. Richard, when Andrew says for me to say it in my best British accent, I want you to say it, okay?

[Andrew and Richard laugh]

Andrew: Well, I think you should sit down with Richard and practice.

Micah: Yeah...

Andrew: He's Scottish, but that will work, too.

Micah: Yeah, same thing basically, right, Richard?

Richard: Yeah. I mean, we'll just bring a tape recorder into the interview and I'll speak for you, and...

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Andrew: Hey, another cool thing about this exhibition is it's going to have props from Part 2, which I think...

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: ...this is the first time it's going to have Part 2 props. So, pretty cool. I hope to check that out.

Richard: This exhibition in New York, is this instead of the rest of the world, or is this first before the rest of the world?

Micah: I think it's just an addition.

Andrew: Yeah, it's before it goes overseas.

Micah: Yeah.

Richard: Oh, okay.

Micah: This will be the last stop.

Andrew: Well, until they announce L.A. or somewhere. [laughs]

Micah: [laughs] Yeah, right.

[Richard laughs]

Micah: Well, I was going to say, though, real quick, the reasoning behind doing this I think has a lot to do with Daniel Radcliffe being in How to Succeed in Business. You create a little bit of a Potter theme there. The theater is probably not too far away from where this is going to be and you've got the premiere coming up in July, assuming it's going to be in New York, so you have a lot of things to do now in New York that are Potter related.

Andrew: That's true. And now it's almost as good as Orlando. [laughs]

Micah: Almost.

[Richard laughs]

Micah: Almost. But...

Andrew: I hope to check it out, because I still haven't seen it. But Micah, you have. It's worth going to, you think?

Micah: What's that?

Andrew: The exhibition, you've been to it, right?

Micah: No, actually, I was supposed to go...

Andrew: Oh, you haven't.

Micah: the one in Boston. I didn't go, but...

Andrew: Oh.

Micah: ...I would assume that I will cover the one here in New York. We'll see what happens.

Andrew: Maybe, if you're good.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Thinking of sending Richard.

Micah: Well - no, what I can do is I can try out my [laughs] British accent while I'm there. I can interview before the thing even opens.

Andrew: Well - yeah, exactly. While you're there, be like, "Hey, listen, I just lost my job yesterday, so..."

[Andrew and Richard laugh]

Andrew: "...maybe you could hire me?"

Micah: Feel sorry for me, give me a job.

Andrew: "I promise I'll post about it on MuggleNet a lot!" They're going to be like, "We don't need the traffic! We're in Time Square!" [laughs]

Richard: So, basically, if the accent doesn't work, you're going to try and guilt them into giving you it?

Micah: Yes.

Richard: [laughs] That sounds like a good plan.

News: Deathly Hallows - Part 1 Becomes Highest-Grossing Potter Film Internationally

Micah: Well, the last bit of news that we have for today is that Deathly Hallows - Part 1 recently became the highest grossing Potter film internationally. It surpassed Philosopher's Stone and has now earned $657.24 million, and so...

Andrew: That's really amazing.

Micah: It took ten years to get there. Yeah, it is when you think about it, though, just from increase in ticket prices and how that's all happened over the last decade, and the fact that none of the other Potter films on an international level have been able to pass Sorcerer's Stone.

Andrew: Well, some people are actually saying that this isn't - people are saying that inflation made this happen, so technically in terms of the number of tickets sold, Philosopher's Stone still may be number one internationally.

Micah: That's a good point.

Andrew: But still a cool headline. [laughs] So...

Micah: That's like splitting hairs, though.

Richard: Do you think Part 2 is going to beat it?

Andrew: I think it has to, right? How could people not...

Richard: I think Part 2 will be a lot more warmly received than Part 1 will be.

Andrew: Yeah, I think so, too, because everybody - a lot of people saw the first one and from there it was sort of like a downhill.

Richard: Yeah.

Andrew: So, I think everybody will be really interested to see how the series ends. So...

Richard: Yeah, I think so, too.

Micah: Yeah, what do you think? I mean, we've talked about this before, but the potential for it to cross the $1 billion mark I think is pretty good, right?

Richard: I think collectively it will, but I don't think it will by itself.

Micah: You mean internationally?

Richard: Yeah - no, I mean, I think Part 1 and Part 2 will pass the $1 billion mark, but I don't think Part 2 alone will.

Shout-Out to Apple Employees

Andrew: Oh. So, that's all the news that we have for everyone this week. Before we move on, I wanted to do a quick shout-out. Everybody knows I'm a big Apple fanboy, and I went to get the new iPad at the Apple Store in Santa Monica. And while I'm waiting in line to pay for it, [laughs] I hear somebody say behind me, "Andrew!" And I look around, and he goes, "MuggleCast!" I'm like, "Oh! Right! Right on!"

[Richard laughs]

Andrew: So, then [laughs] we talked a little bit more afterwards. And his name was Antwon, and I just wanted to say a shout-out to Antwon. Glad that he likes the show. It was really nice meeting him, and I just thought that was cool. It's always nice to meet people in person, so...

Richard: I think he was following you.

Andrew: No, he was working there.

Richard: [laughs] Oh.

Andrew: [laughs] He was working at the Apple Store.

Richard: [laughs] Oh, okay.

Andrew: Did I mention that? [laughs]

Richard: [laughs] No.

Micah: No, you left that out.

[Andrew laughs]

Richard: But that makes the whole thing a lot less creepy now. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, he was - yeah, he was working there.

[Richard laughs]

Announcement: LeakyCon 2011

Andrew: And on a related note, we actually got an e-mail a few days ago from someone named Ray, 22, of Ireland, who is also working for Apple in Ireland. I'm not sure if he works at the store or in an office over there, but shout-out to him as well. Okay, and we've got some fun segments today, as well as Chapter-by-Chapter. But we want to remind everybody that we're going to be at LeakyCon 2011. You can visit for all the details. We're going to be putting on at least one podcast. No, we still don't have [laughs] more details about that but we will in the coming months. It's still a few months away, so...

Richard: When is LeakyCon, again?

Andrew: It's - oh, I'm glad you asked! It's July 13th to the 17th in Orlando, Florida on the Universal Orlando Resort, which is home to The Wizarding World of Harry Potter theme park!

Richard: Woo!

Andrew: So, if you put it all together, it's the biggest Harry Potter fans at the resort where the Harry Potter theme park is, all going to see Part 2 at the same time. It's going to be nuts. There's going to be a midnight showing at Universal's really nice movie theaters, and there's going to be a ball. There's going to be the panels just going really in-depth into Harry Potter. Just a lot of interesting stuff. It's really going to be so much fun. So, visit, and if you do register, enter code "Muggle", that's M-U-G-G-L-E, when you go through, and that way they'll know - and we'll know - that you're coming to see MuggleCast, along with participating in all the fun.

Micah: And who's going to be there? Who's going to be part of the panel for MuggleCast?

What If

Andrew: You, Ben, Eric, and I will all be there, so it's going to be fun. And I actually - I submitted a proposal for a panel a couple of weeks ago that I'm going to be doing with Ben, as well as John and Melissa from Leaky. And we're going to be - well, I won't spoil it, but let's just say it's going to be fun. So, Okay, here's a segment we haven't done in a while: What If. Yes, it's as simple as it sounds. We just - if you haven't heard us do the segment before, we just ask what if some crucial part of the Harry Potter series didn't happen?

Micah: Well, we did one, too - a while ago now at this point - where we said what if J.K. Rowling was a man as opposed to a woman?

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: How would that have altered the series and its perception? And we talked about how they made her change it, her name.

Andrew: Her - well, yeah, she...

Micah: Her initials. Her first two initials.

Andrew: Right.

Micah: So, yeah. I mean, we always have fun with this segment and this one actually was sent in anonymously via e-mail.

Andrew: Ooh!

Micah: So, sorry you're not getting any credit [laughs] for sending this in. We appreciate it, though.

Andrew: So, what is it?

Micah: It's, "What if Dumbledore had given Tom Riddle the job as Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher?"

Andrew: Well, we know Tom really wanted the job, but he never got it. Do you think there would have been - what do you think, Micah? Do you think Tom Riddle would have been a happier person?

Micah: It is possible. I think also it would allow Dumbledore to keep an eye on Tom Riddle. Maybe he doesn't go and become Voldemort, or at least not the same level. I don't know. I mean, it's a good question and...

Andrew: I think, though, whether or not he got the job, he was still evil. Even while wanting that job, not knowing what Dumbledore was going to ultimately tell him, I think he still would have turned out bad. Maybe he just wouldn't have been - well, I don't know. I was going to say maybe he wouldn't have been as bitter towards Dumbledore, but I don't think that would have been the case, actually. Because evil is evil. You're not going to have favorites who are on the opposite side. Tom and Dumbledore still had their disagreements.

Micah: And he cursed the position, remember? I know we try not to think about how it affects the plot later on, but if he doesn't curse that position, then things probably play out a lot differently in the series. So, what do you think, Richard?

Richard: Well, I reckon that if Dumbledore had given him the job, I reckon that it would have meant Dumbledore would have died a lot sooner because either way, Tom Riddle was going to become Voldemort. I mean, he kind of was at that point already. He was already using that name. He was already doing a lot of really nasty stuff. And Dumbledore knew this and it was only going to get worse. I suspect if he was at the school, Dumbledore would have been forced to challenge him about it. And because we know the prophecy, Dumbledore wouldn't have won. I reckon Tom Riddle may have killed him.

Micah: Yeah. He also probably wouldn't have given him the position to protect the students, I think. Not to say that all the people in the regular world are fair game for Tom Riddle/Voldemort to go out and kill, but I think that the students would be in grave danger having somebody so obsessed with Dark Arts teaching them, and - possible to create this breeding ground for Death Eaters and other evil wizards if he's within Hogwarts educating them on things.

Richard: On the bright side, if he was still there, the students would have learnt a lot of really cool [censored].

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: That is true.

Andrew: Well, if any of you listeners have any ideas about this question, feel free to send them in. Just go to and click on "Contact", and then we'd be interested in hearing your theories behind what would have happened if Tom Riddle got the job as Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher.

Micah: I like what Richard said, though, about Dumbledore meeting his downfall a lot sooner.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Or his death a lot sooner.

Chapter-by-Chapter: "Flesh, Blood, and Bone"

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Let's now move on to Chapter-by-Chapter. Micah is a brave soul, he's doing two - we're doing two chapters this week, and Micah's guiding us, leading us through both of them because...

Micah: I'm going to try.

Andrew: ...I was busy this week.

Richard: And I was lazy.

Andrew: And Richard was lazy.

Richard: I was focusing on being upbeat. That took all of my attention!

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Andrew: That's a sad life, then. [laughs]

Richard: Yeah, I had balloons and everything going on.

[Andrew laughs]

Richard: Jumping up and down...

Andrew: [laughs] Balloons?

Richard: ...cheering, smiling a lot, moving those muscles in my face.

Micah: Were you whistling as you walked down the street?

Richard: I was skipping, Micah. I was skipping down the street.

[Andrew and Micah laugh]

Richard: Skipping down to "Hedwig's Theme." [laughs]

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: All right. Well, Chapter-by-Chapter this week, we start with Chapter 32 of Goblet of Fire, "Flesh, Blood, and Bone." And Harry and Cedric are transported to the graveyard, and that's where the last chapter left off. And this raises a question for me about Portkeys because up until this point, how we've seen Portkeys be used is that they are very specific in terms of the times that you're allowed to use them, and it seems like this Portkey is just to the touch, so whoever touched it first, or in this case, Harry and Cedric touching it at the same time, they are transported. So, what do you guys think about that? I mean, it didn't really - there was a consistency issue there for me.

Andrew: Maybe it was just as simple as there didn't - you can program it how you want. There was never a rule that specifically said you have to - it will transport you at specific times. I mean, at the beginning of Goblet of Fire when they are transported when the Portkey is activated at certain times, I thought that was to help manage the traffic coming into the Triwizard Tournament.

Micah: You mean the Quidditch World Cup?

Andrew: Or the Quidditch World Cup, yeah. So, by making it certain times, they were able to stagger the amount of people that were coming into the world cup. And of course, when the cup - or when the goblet was turned into the Portkey in this case, it was just set to "Instant Touch."

[Richard laughs]

Andrew: "Instant Go."

Micah: Right. And it may raise another question, though, and we'll get to that probably not this episode, but when Harry transports himself back to Hogwarts, how that necessarily works - because remember, there was nothing that was officially set up for him to return. Nobody programmed the cup to take him back to Hogwarts. So, we can talk about that later, though. Anyway, what happens next is - it's very quick. Wormtail kills Cedric, and you hear baby Voldemort - or disgusting Voldemort, or I don't know what you want to call him in this really ugly form - say, "Kill the spare." And it's just really quick. When you guys first read this, what was your reaction to Cedric dying? Because it's really - other than Frank Bryce, who has very little character development, it's the first death we've experienced from the good side in the series.

Andrew: Yeah.

Richard: I was shocked that Wormtail could do it. He's not portrayed as a very good wizard, and we know from fake Moody's earlier Defense Against the Dark Arts classes when he talks about the Unforgivable Curses, he states how hard it is to do the Killing Curse in particular, and how you've really got to mean it. I didn't think Wormtail was really capable of it. When I first read that, I almost assumed that it was Voldemort that did it, and "Kill the spare" was just - Harry heard that in his mind or something. But after re-reading it, I realized that wasn't the case.

Andrew: When I first read it, I just found it to be very tragic, just because it was so sudden and quick and it is an instant death. But the reason why I'm not surprised Wormtail would do it is because he is so loyal to Voldemort. He knows he needs to...

Richard: I don't think he is that loyal. I think he's so afraid that he's got no alternative that he sticks to Voldemort. I don't think he's loyal to anyone other than himself.

Andrew: Right, right, yeah. I mean, think of the situation he's in right now. If he didn't kill Cedric, he would have been killed himself. He had no escape, so that's why I think he was forced into doing it.

Micah: So, this is the first true death that Harry experiences in the series, and one of the things that comes out of this - and we see it at the beginning of Order of the Phoenix - is that Harry is now able to see Thestrals. And this is a question we get a lot and it is a question that J.K. Rowling answered, so I just wanted to touch on it really quickly. The question goes something like this: "Why could Harry see the Thestrals in Order of the Phoenix? Shouldn't he have been able to see them much earlier because he has now seen Cedric die?" But also people would ask, "Well, didn't he see his parents die? Didn't he see Quirrell die?" And J.K. Rowling responded by saying:

"I've been asked this a lot. Harry didn't see his parents die. He was in his cot at the time (he was just over a year old) and, as I say in 'Philosopher's Stone', all he saw was a flash of green light. He didn't see Quirrell's death, either. Harry had passed out before Quirrell died and was only told about it by Dumbledore in the last chapter. He did, however, witness the murder of Cedric, and it is this that makes him able to see the Thestrals at last. Why couldn't he see the Thestrals on his trip back to the train station?"

She's talking about at the end of Goblet of Fire.

"Well, I didn't want to start a new mystery, which would not be resolved for a long time, at the very end of the fourth book. I decided, therefore, that until Harry is over the first shock, and really feels what death means (i.e. when he fully appreciates that Cedric is gone forever and that he can never come back, which takes time, whatever age you are) he would not be able to see the Thestrals. After two months away from school during which he has dwelled endlessly on his memories of the murder and had nightmares about it, the Thestrals have taken shape and form and he can see them quite clearly."

So, we do get this question a lot. I guarantee we can search our inbox and...

Andrew: So does Jo.

Micah: Yeah.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: [laughs] Well, that's why she answered it. So, hopefully...

Andrew: Well, it is a really good answer, and you see again how Jo has been very organized from the start of the series.

Micah: Yeah, I think there are things in her answer that she was able to cover, but I think, generally speaking, she had the answer in place.

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: Like you said, she was very organized in how she had planned things out. And it's a great question, and I think she gives a really great answer, especially in terms of Harry having to understand what death is and having experienced it firsthand. So, Harry does, of course, see what has happened to Cedric, and Wormtail goes about tying him up to the grave of Tom Riddle, Sr. And Harry doesn't put up much of a fight. Now, remember his leg is injured, his head is searing with pain, but it surprised me because going back to what Richard said about Wormtail casting the Killing Curse, Wormtail is not a very strong character. Even in a weakened state, I would think that Harry would be able to fight back a little bit more.

Andrew: It could have been maybe, too, that Harry is still kind of in shock about this situation. I mean, it completely came out of nowhere. One minute, he was fighting in the Triwizard Tournament and suddenly he's face to face with Voldemort and Wormtail, and maybe that could have affected his fighting abilities a bit.

Richard: I think he's probably just fatigued. I mean, he's just gone through an entire tournament.

Andrew: Yeah, that's true.

Richard: An entire maze. He's been stabbed in the leg, thanks to that spider. And he's only fourteen. I guess he's had a pretty hard day. You can forgive him for wanting to sit down for a little while.

Andrew: That is very true.

Micah: [laughs] Okay. So, Wormtail resurrects Voldemort, and it's kind of this séance of sorts. Bone of the father, unknowingly given. Flesh of the servant, willingly given. Blood of the enemy, forcibly taken. And did you guys think there's any religious connection here? Is it almost like the resurrection of Christ except on the evil side of things? Was there any sort of religious connection here for you?

Richard: It was more the resurrection of the Antichrist, I think, than...

Micah: Yeah, well - yeah, that's probably better put.

Richard: Yeah, maybe.

Andrew: Yeah, I never thought about that, but that's a good point, especially the way that it's worded. [in mysterious-sounding voice] "Bone of the father, unknowingly given. Flesh of the servant, willingly given."

Micah: So, now Voldemort takes on the human form for the first time, really, in the series. We dealt with Quirrell in Sorcerer's Stone, we dealt with the diary version of Tom Riddle, Jr. in Chamber of Secrets, and he was pretty much absent from Prisoner of Azkaban. So, now Voldemort...

Richard: He was absent altogether, wasn't he?

Micah: Yeah. So, now he's back in full form. How do you think this affects Harry? Seeing his enemy now, face to face. He's real, he's alive now.

Richard: I suspect the one thing that went through his head at that moment was, "Ahhh, crap."

Andrew: [laughs] Well, it must have been extremely frightening for him. I mean, had Harry ever even really seen a photo of Voldemort? Other than hearing the accounts of other people talking about how scary and evil he is, this is really Harry's first look and it must be extremely frightening.

Richard: I'm guessing there weren't any photographs, given that no one referred to his name, let alone what he looked like.

Andrew: Yeah, and nobody stopped to take a picture when he was [laughs] killing everyone.

[Richard laughs]

Micah: Hey, Dark Lord, come over here. Can I get your signature?

Andrew: Pose for a photo! Say "Cheese!"

Richard: Snap.

[Andrew laughs]

Andrew: I'll tag you on Facebook later!

[Richard laughs]

Micah: Well, he is on Twitter, right?

Andrew: He is. Lord_Voldemort7.

Richard: We interviewed him.

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#244 (November 20th, 2011): For the first time ever, MuggleCast has a DVD commentary! Watch Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part 2 on DVD with us. We'll comment on each and every scene - it's as if we're in your living room watching alongside you!

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