MuggleCast | The #1 Most-Listened to Harry Potter Podcast 3

MuggleCast EP23 Transcript

Show Intro

Andrew [Show Intro with music in background]: This is MuggleCast - Episode 23 for January 09th, 2006. MuggleCast is sponsored in part by See why is the No. 1 domain registrar worldwide. Now with your domain registration you'll get hosting, a free blog, complete e-mail, and much more! Plus, as a MuggleCast listener, enter the code "RON." That's R-O-N, when you check out, and get your dot com domain name for just $6.95. Get your piece of the Internet today at

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the show! I'm Andrew Sims.

Kevin: I'm Kevin Steck.

Laura: I'm Laura Thompson.

Micah: I'm Micah Tannenbaum.

Emily: I'm Emily Ogle.

Andrew: And this is the show where we bring you the latest in Harry Potter news, theories, discussions, cooking recipes, laptops,, whatever I can see in my view right now. But before we go anywhere, first let's go over to Micah with the past week's top Harry Potter news stories.


Micah: Thanks, Andrew.

Cambridge University's annual science festival will this year examine the science behind the Harry Potter stories, focusing on broomstick flight, the Invisibility Cloak and whether owls could deliver the mail. The festival will run from March 15-26.

In movie news, has posted two great video interviews with some of the Goblet of Fire cast and crew including one with Katie Leung (Cho Chang) and Robert Pattinson (Cedric Diggory), and another with Stanislav Ianevski (Viktor Krum), Clemence Poesy (Fleur Delacour) and David Heyman (producer).

SoundNet has released the list of the best ten soundtracks for the past year with Patrick Doyle's score making the list for his work with the soundtrack for the fourth movie, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.

And, BBC viewers recently voted on their favorite films of 2005, with Goblet of Fire coming in at No. 6.

The Internet Movie Database is currently asking visitors to vote on their favorite movies and actors of 2005. The film and its actors are either at #1 or close to in every category... including Best Foreign Language (non-English) Film, Best Independent Film, Best Documentary and Best Animated Feature! So keep voting.

The latest installment in the Potter movie series also became the UK's most successful film of 2005. To date, Movie 4 has collected $812 million worldwide.

Warner Bros. has announced that the Goblet of Fire High-Definition DVD will be released on April 11th.

Along with twenty-three people who were victims of the London bombings last summer, Robbie Coltrane (who portrays Hagrid), has been made an Officer of the Order of the British Empire (OBE). These honors are given to those who have done something special in life. They are nominated by the Queen of England with advice of the Prime Minister.

Moving on to book news, the Italian version of the sixth novel in the Harry Potter series was released on January 06th. (You can check out the cover right here). The initial print run totaled 750,000 copies and midnight parties were be hosted throughout Italy.

And in absolutely stunning news, selling over 4.1 million copies on the day of its release alone, Half-Blood Prince topped the list of the best-selling novels of 2005 in the US. According to a report released today by Reuters and Nielsen's BookScan, the sixth adventure beat out every other book that was on sale for the entire year.

Sales totaled over 7 million copies for the entire year, and they only started in July.

Be sure to check out our brand-new MuggleCast website as well and head over to JK Rowling's official site, as she continues to update her Diary Section.

That's all the news for this January 08th, 2005 [Note: Yes, I know it should be 2006] edition of MuggleCast. On with the show.

Andrew: All right, thank you Micah.

Micah: You're welcome.


Andrew: Well, we're missing a couple of people this week - Ben, Eric, and Jamie. They are all out and about. Except for Ben, who is...what was doing Laura?

Laura: He was sleeping. [laughs]

Andrew: Oh right, right. I could have guessed that. [laughs] But we do have a new MuggleCaster this week who has decided to join us - Emily. MuggleNet editor extraordinaire.

Emily: Yep.

Andrew: Can you tell us a little bit about what you do around the site.

Emily: I think probably the better thing to say is: What don't I do?

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Well, you do do a lot.

Emily: Well, I guess maybe the better thing to say is: What don't I edit?

[Andrew laughs]

Emily: There are only two things that I don't edit.

Andrew: Which is what?

Emily: That would be Editorials and Graphics.

Kevin: How about Wall of Shame?

Emily: No, I don't, because it doesn't really need it. You know, if I wanted to edit, it would take... If I wanted to edit the actual e-mails, it would be an absolute nightmare, but that would be the whole point. So...

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: She would spend the rest of her life doing it.

Emily: Yeah.

[Emily and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Yeah, but you do do a lot of work around the site, which we do appreciate because we all stink at English. Especially me. So, you're always there...

Laura: Yeah, Andrew "D-I-E-I-N-G." Cough, cough.

[Andrew, Emily, and Laura laugh]

Andrew: I don't know what you're talking about, Laura.

[Laura laughs]

New Website

Andrew: Okay, so one quick announcement and then we will move along. As most of you know by now, we have a brand-new website over at We completely revamped it. It looks really great.

Laura: It looks really does.

Andrew: Yes, wouldn't you all agree?

Laura: I do.

Andrew: For those of you who haven't been there yet, you should definitely check it out. It's basically an iPod. And you can browse around and do kinds of things. We have new stuff. We have a new transcript directory. You can play the show right through the website by clicking "Play/Pause" on the iPod. And we know everyone has enjoyed it. We've gotten some great reviews. So, so go check it out. And be sure to vote in the "Poll." We're going to put a new poll up every single week with the release of each new show. So, that's about it.

Main Topic - Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore

Andrew: So, let's get in to the main discussion of this week, as promised, as we told you last week, Dumbledore. A very, very, very interesting character, who we can talk about for very long periods of time. Hopefully we can cover as much as we can right now, but of course the main question on most peoples' minds is: Is he dead? Now, of course...

Laura: I think so.

Emily: I think so as well.

Micah: I don't.

Andrew: Laura thinks so as well.

Laura: Yep.

Andrew: Micah doesn't. Good. I got Micah on my side.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: Yeah, I don't think he's dead either, and I was convinced by So, first let's give everyone some basic information about the good guy. Oh, I can't even... His full name is Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore. Not exactly sure where he got that whole name from. Voldemort refers to him as "That Champion of Commoners, of Mudbloods, and Muggles." So basically, he's the Voldemort of the good side. Right?

Kevin: Right.

Andrew: I think that's a good way to put it.

Kevin: Yeah.

Andrew: Yes?

Laura: Ehhh...

Andrew: Yeah? Well... Well, I don't know.

[Micah laughs]

Andrew: He's got blue eyes. He's got white hair. He of course died in Half-Blood Prince towards the end.

Micah: Or did he?

Andrew: Or did he? [does a little humming] Thanks to HP-Lexicon for that information. There's not really... I mean there's tons of information on him, but there is no basic info about him.

Kevin: Yeah. They really don't talk about his background.

Andrew: Mhm.

Kevin: And I think that is what adds to the mystery of Dumbledore.

Laura: Mhm.

Andrew: You got to love the guy. Who does not love that guy? (who reads the books anyway)

Laura: Oh, I bawled at the end of Half-Blood Prince. I was in tears. I was so upset. I was really ticked off too. Unfortunately, the lovely Jess, from MuggleNet Fan Fiction has photographic evidence of my temper tantrum. So, yeah.

[Andrew laughs]

Kevin: Oh geez.

Andrew: Can we see that, Laura?

Laura: No!

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: In fact...

Kevin: So, we're actually going to be uploading those images to

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Andrew: Yeah. We should check them out.

Laura: No actually, if you find Jess bound and gagged in a closet somewhere unconscious, you'll know it was me.

Andrew: Oooh.

Laura: Yep. No, I love Jess - she's wonderful.

Kevin: Okay. So, we'll inform the proper authorities. So...

[Laura and Kevin laugh]

He's Dead...Or Is He? Why The Phoenix?

Andrew: So, as we said, Micah and I are pretty, pretty decided that Dumbledore is not dead. I mean of course, when you first see the death, you know, "Oh he's dead." And this happened with Sirius too. And people still think that Sirius is alive. But Dumbledore is different because there is a lot more evidence that shows that he could possibly be alive. Is this correct, Micah?

Micah: Yep. And you mentioned it before. does a great job of just kind of going through the whole series of events leading up to his death.

Andrew: Right.

Laura: Mhm.

Andrew: You want to start us off with some, you know, clues?

Micah: Well I have something of my own.

Andrew: Okay.

Micah: I don't remember everything exactly from, but...

[Micah and Andrew laugh]

Andrew: All right. How many times can we possibly plug

Micah: [laughs] I don't know.


[Laura laughs]

Kevin: What are you talking about?

Andrew: Yes.

[Micah and Laura laugh]

Micah: How about, he's so closely tied to the phoenix throughout the entire series. You know, it's called the Order of the Phoenix, he has a pet phoenix, his Patronus is a phoenix, and the phoenix is a bird of rebirth.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Of immortality almost. So, is Jo trying to tell us something with that?

Andrew: Yeah, and...

Laura: Yeah, but didn't she say that dead is dead? You know what I'm saying?

Kevin: Well, the whole reason why, well, one of the reasons why I think he is dead is because it fits. You don't want... Throughout the series Dumbledore has always acted as though he was the protector and guardian of Harry. And I think it is about time Harry starts continuing his quest to defeat Voldemort without a protector.

Laura: Exactly.

Kevin: He needs to grow up. And I think I'd be pretty upset if it turned out he was alive, because I think he served his purpose perfectly, which was to show Harry that he's not a kid anymore. He has this goal ahead of him and he has to do it himself.

Laura: Exactly. Harry has to walk alone. And I think with Dumbledore there, Harry would always kind of depend on him. Because we've seen Harry talk about how Dumbledore always has the answers. And he never until Order of the Phoenix really started seeing him as a human being who makes mistakes. And it is a recurring theme I've seen, that when Jo doesn't need a character anymore, and that character has served their purpose, she gets rid of them.

Andrew: But getting back to the Fawkes thing, Micah brought up how Dumbledore... What did you exactly say, Micah?

Micah: That he is so intertwined with a bird that is symbolic of rebirth and immortality, basically.

Where was Fawkes?

Andrew: Yeah, but one thing I have noticed, and you know, that I've read, of course, is that Fawkes never saved him. He never tried to. But we did hear him crying...or singing. He was singing, right? He was singing for...

Laura: Yeah. "The Phoenix Lament."

Andrew: ...for, yeah...for a very long time. So Laura, wouldn't you have to agree - or Kevin, wouldn't you have to agree that's a little weird?

Laura: I think it could be like a sign that maybe Snape's not evil. That maybe Dumbledore planned to die, but I don't think that he's alive. Just because we saw his body laying on the ground, after he'd been thrown from the highest tower in the school. Even if it wasn't the Avada Kedavra curse, which is something that I read on (there's another plug for you). [laughs] But even if it wasn't the Avada Kedavra curse, the fall alone would have killed him.

Kevin: And it... One thing that I always thought of when I thought of Dumbledore and the phoenix was that thing that Harry said...not Harry...actually it was Harry. When he said in Chamber of Secrets that Dumbledore is not gone so long as there still someone loyal to him in the school.

Laura: Mhm.

Kevin: Do you remember that?

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Kevin: And I always thought that he wouldn't literally be reborn, but he would never die because everyone would always remember him.

Laura: Exactly.

Kevin: You know?

Laura: That's what I think it's supposed to mean.

Kevin: Exactly. And I think that people are taking it as a literal he's going to be resurrected, but he himself said there's nothing to do about death.

Laura: Mhm.

Kevin: You know? Death is just another step, and nothing you can do can prevent someone from, you know...not dying.

Laura: Not dying.

Kevin: Exactly.

Laura: And Jo has said it too. She's said it numerous times that dead is dead. There is no spell that can reawaken the dead.

Kevin: Right. So I don't know why people are hoping he'll come back to life for some reason. One thing that I have seen on the forums is that people are hoping he'll come back as a ghost.

Laura: No.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: I don't think so.

Andrew: Yeah, me neither. It would be pretty dumb.

Kevin: I don't... I don't think it's going to happen, but I think that's as far as it will go with Dumbledore coming back.

Laura: I don't think it would though.

Andrew: I just think that Jo saying that, "dead is dead" is just...could be, could possibly be a scheme to throw everyone off a lot.

Laura: Yeah, but she's always made it very clear that she doesn't say anything to directly mislead fans. And that would be kind of like a lie, you know? And she wouldn't want to lie to us.

Andrew: Dead... Okay. Dead is dead. But what if he never died? [laughs]

Micah: There you go. [laughs]

Laura: But how could you not die even if it wasn't Avada Kedavra? How could you survive that fall?

Andrew: Because he's Dumbledore.

Micah: Exactly.

Andrew: Why wouldn't Fawkes try to save him? Why wouldn' know? Harry was near death...

Laura: Maybe he meant to die.

Kevin: Because he knows he was dead. You know? It was the parting of his...

Laura: And it's one thing for when Harry...

Andrew: Okay, there's always...

Laura: It's one thing when Harry is in the Chamber of Secrets and he's fighting for time, but when Fawkes is all the way in Dumbledore's office, there is absolutely no time for him to get from the office to Dumbledore, who is falling from a tower.

Micah: Well, that conversation went on for a while. I mean, I guess it depends if Dumbledore thought he was in trouble that whole time that he was up there.

The Unbreakable Vow(s)

Laura: Mhm. Now, do I think that it's a great possibility that Snape was under an Unbreakable Vow with Dumbledore to kill him if the time came. Yes, I do think that's a great possibility and that would certainly explain why Fawkes wasn't coming to save him.

Andrew: When the time came? Why would the time ever come?

Laura: Because Draco, that was what he was assigned to do.

Andrew: Oh, because Draco had the Unbreakable Vow too?

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Oh.

Laura: No, no, no. What I am saying is that he had the Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa and I think that he did it so he wouldn't blow his cover.

Andrew: Snape, we're talking about.

Laura: And he goes to Dumbledore and tells Dumbledore about it. And Dumbledore says, "No, your position is far more valuable than mine. So, if the time should come, you'll have to promise me you'll do it."

Kevin: Yeah, that's what I thought. Especially because a lot of people thought that it was out of character for Dumbledore to be begging Snape.

Laura: Mhm.

Kevin: And I think it would be perfectly fitting if he wasn't begging him not to kill him, but begging him to kill him.

Laura: Exactly.

Kevin: It would meet... It matches Dumbledore's personality perfectly. He's, you know, he's so... He knows what's going on so well that he is willing to give up his own life knowing that's better than the alternative.

Micah: Do you know that what Dumbledore says to Snape when he says, "Severus, please," is the exact same thing that Narcissa says to Snape in "Spinner's End" when she's asking him to do the Unbreakable Vow?

Kevin: Yeah. And that's one... Yeah, and that's one of the things that I read on the forums, where people have seen that and that's why they think that there is an Unbreakable Vow there. Although I don't understand why if there was an Unbreakable Vow, why Snape wouldn't have done it immediately. Because, you know, it's sort really don't have a choice.

Laura: No, but this is actually something that I did read on yet again, another plug, - that we don't really know the condition under which Unbreakable Vows work. Like if there is a time frame.

Andrew: Yeah, which is a good question that someone should ask Jo. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Soon, because there must be a lot involved.

Laura: Well, and it also depends, I mean are Unbreakable Vows, are they a conscious type thing? Is the Unbreakable Vow almost like a mind reader? Does it know that you're going to fulfill it, if you're honest? Or does it only depend on the person you're making it with? If the person who you're making the vow from a certain point of view, does it work out?

Andrew: I don't know.

Laura: Yep.

The Missing Link

Andrew: But one thing I would like to point out is the missing text. Now, at first some people might just laugh it off because, you know, UK, USA, it's always different. But, in the UK edition there were several sentences missing in the UK edition that appeared in the US edition. And these specific sentences I really think give away that there is something to this here because... Now, the question all relies on if the editors know anything about the future books. Do you guys think so?

Laura: I don't know. Why would they?

Kevin: Yeah, I don't think so.

Andrew: Well, that's... Okay, but in... I'm going to read a couple of sentences to you that were not in the UK edition, but appeared in the US edition:

"He cannot kill you if you're already dead. Nobody would be surprised if you had died in your attempt to kill me. Forgive me, but Lord Voldemort probably expects it. Nor would the Death Eaters be surprised that we had captured and killed your mother. It is what they would do themselves after all."

Now, if you read this in its context, it is very convincing that they were taking it out because it gives too much away that he looks dead, but he might not really be dead.

Laura: Well, if you look at it too, the UK publishers could have been thinking that it was repetitious. They might have been trying to shorten it. We don't know exactly why they took that out. We just know that the US and UK edits are separate. I mean if you go back and look at - I think they started doing that with Order of the Phoenix. There are loads of different sentences and different phrase wordings. So, I just think it's purely coincidence. Either that or they thought it was giving too much away about something else.

Micah: Yeah, that's, that's... I don't know. [laughs] It certainly fuels the fire.

Andrew: Just reiterating here. Dumbledore says, "He cannot kill you if you're already dead." Now, to me this gives away, that now Dumbledore's not going to kill him.

Laura: No, of course not.

Andrew: They are going to hide him. Dumbledore's plan was to hide him or somehow make him appear to be dead.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah, but when I read that, the impression I get was that it was cut out for of two reasons. One: wordiness. It sort of dropped in the middle.

Laura: Mhm.

Andrew: I do agree with that.

Kevin: And it's sort of off-topic. You know? It's... There's not much Dumbledore is going to say that can change, you know, Malfoy's mind now. And he should have said it earlier. Right?

Laura: Well, also...

Kevin: Right?

Laura: If the editors do know whatís going to happen, then that might be giving something away with whatís going to happen with Draco. Because for all we know, if Snapeís good...

Kevin: Exactly, and that was my second point.

Laura: He could be taking Draco to hide him.

Kevin: Right, that was my second point.

Andrew: Yeah.

Kevin: I think that itís sort of, if they do know whatís going to happen, itís too much of a foreshadow, because that one sentence would say that Draco is going to start fighting for the Order and that is a huge, huge twist. Thatís not something you want to give away.

Laura: Mhm, definitely.

Andrew: This is true. Micah, what was your theory?

Micah: No, I think this definitely lends to the whole idea that heís not dead. I mean, I understand what Kevin and Laura brought up, but at the same time I think there are too many things they can kind of lead you to believe that there is a chance that he could come back in the Seventh Book.

Dumbledore's Funeral

Andrew: Although itís a weak argument, nobody saw Dumbledoreís body after his death. Now, you know, they say itís lying under the covers and when it disappeared, did it disappear or did it...

Laura: Flames came up around it and encased it into the tomb.

Andrew: And the phoenix...

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: And the phoenix came out and all that. I donít know, itís...

Laura: Yeah, but I think that...

Andrew: If Dumbledoreís real body wasnít under there, it was, perhaps, say I donít know some kind of magic lift.

Laura: What, did they put hay under the blanket and...

[Laura and Andrew laugh]

Andrew: And sculpt it in the shape of Dumbledore. [laughs] No, Iím saying if there is some spell or something that can make it look like a body was pushing up or I donít know. [laughs with Laura] Itís such a weak argument but itís something to point out.

Laura: Well actually, what Iíve been waiting for you to bring up is the phoenix leaving his body.

Micah: Yeah, was that a Patronus? What was that?

Andrew: Thatís just another, you know, I can't talk today. Go ahead.

Laura: Because I know that people have taken it as sort of a sign of Dumbledoreís reincarnation. What I think it is is one of two things. Itís representing his spirit, you know, leaving and going wherever it goes, wherever dead people go. Or, it has something to do with his Patronus and Animagus form.

Micah: Yeah, was it sort of a message to the, or...

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: ...last message to the Order of the Phoenix on how to proceed.

Laura: Mhm. Because what happens to people's Patronus and Animagus forms? Do we really know if a Patronus is sort of, actually kind of like a daemon, like from The Golden Compass, what Kevin and I are reading. I mean, we donít know how external they are, if they are more like an external portion of someoneís soul. Do they leave the body when they die?

So Many Names

Micah: The reincarnation thing though. I know this is really far out there but I've that Dumbledore has so many middle names because he's been reborn so many times.

[All laugh]

Laura: That's kind of funny. That's funny, I mean, that's cool.

Andrew: Well it's a good point. Let's see, how many are there?

Laura: Yeah, but he's also how old? 150 people?

Micah: Those are all his nicknames. Is that what it is? [laughs]

Laura: No, people tended to have longer names.

Andrew: What's even, Brian seems like a random mix.

Laura: Yeah, but it's spelled differently isn't it?

Andrew: It's Albus Percival Wulfric, no. Not according to the Lexicon. Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore.

Micah: I think it's because it's more of a Muggle name.

Laura: Yeah, but he's Dumbledore. He's so quirky.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: So if he's quirky, his parents probably were.

Andrew: Yeah.


Andrew: Was, let's see, was Dumbledore a Mudblood?

Laura: I always got the impression that Dumbledore was a pureblood.

Andrew: Well you would think so because all of his power. But I'm saying, so I'm just going to extend on Micah's theory. Say he has lived several lives. Say he was a Mudblood initially. His first name was Brian because he was born with Muggles and they didn't know he was a wizard. Then they, that doesn't really make sense.

Laura: Are we going with the backwards thing again?


Andrew: No, it's not a backwards thing, but I don't know, it's another good question.

Micah: There are so many unanswered questions about him.

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: You could write a book just on him.

Laura: Well also, Emily and I were talking earlier about the one thing that really did it for us was the portrait. I mean, what did you think about that, Emily?

Andrew: Yeah.

Emily: Yeah I, the thing around that portrait is what drove home for me. Well that and the phoenix song, but also something that comes to my mind is that the spell was lifted from Harry and so the portrait is what made it all the more sadder and it, the portrait kind of just drove home with that yes, he's passed on and it's time for a new Headmaster, and all that.

Laura: Exactly, that's what I thought. And the whole thing with the spell lifting, I mean, is Dumbledore actually consciously while he was falling, even if it wasn't Avada Kedavra, and this is just assuming it wasn't because I think it was, but as he's falling is he really going to think, he doesn't even have his wand, "I need to lift the spell on Harry."

Micah: That's another thing though, and I think that was on too, as we plug it for the hundreth time.

Laura: I actually really like that site. I have that site on my favorites. I don't know about everything on it...

Micah: It is, it's a great site.

Laura: But it's a great site. They've done their homework, I'm proud of them.

What About His Wand?

Micah: The thing about the whole wand thing. Remember the song that Slughorn and Hagrid were singing about how when that wizard died, they broke his wand.

Laura: Mhm.

Micah: We never saw Dumbledore's wand snapped in half. I don't know if that happens at funerals or...

Laura: That's, yeah, what do they do with wands when wizards die? I mean...

Andrew: They snap them in half.

Laura: Yeah, well that was the song. We don't know if that is actually true.

Andrew: Yeah, but maybe, it makes sense because...

Laura: What are they going to do with them after that?

Andrew: Bury it with them?

Laura: Do they bury them with their wands? I mean...

Kevin: You know what surprised me about his death? Was that I would expect Dumbledore to leave Harry something.

Laura: He might have.

Kevin: And he...

Andrew: Yeah.

Kevin: She never said. I would expect for...

Andrew: Well that's something to look forward to.

Kevin: Exactly. I think that without a doubt he's going to at least leave Harry some legacy, you know? Because it would be an awful waste of a character.

Andrew: Especially if he knew he was going to die, then he must have thoughtout how he can help Harry in the future with finding these future Horcruxes.

Laura: Also, I think that Dumbledore was already dying before he was AKed off the tower.

Andrew: Of course, the whole story was the guy was weak.

Laura: Yeah, and the potion, I mean even if none of that had happened, do you think that he'd be alive?

Andrew: If it wasn't for the Horcrux search?

Laura: No, I'm talking, even if none of the things with Snape had happened, do you think that Dumbledore would still be alive?

Andrew: At that point and time, if Snape didn't kill him, yeah, I think he'd still be alive.

Laura: But that potion...

Andrew: He was sick, yeah...

Laura: Was clearly poisonous.

Andrew: Yes, but that's not what killed him.

Laura: Well no, but I think it would have.

Emily: I don't know. The way he was acting as he drinking the potion was almost like he knew what kind of potion it was and how much more longer he had left to live, and that's just kind of the impression I got.

Andrew: Yeah, but he was confident it wasn't going to kill him.

Laura: I don't think he was confident it wasn't going to kill him. Dumbledore realizes that he has to sacrifice himself to the greater good.

His Role In The Final Book

Micah: If he is dead and gone, are we going to see anything from him in the next book?

Kevin: Yes.

Andrew: The actual like, you know...

Kevin: From him or - yeah, I see where Andrew wants it clarified.

Andrew: Like are we going to see the ghost of Dumbledore or the will of Dumbledore?

Micah: Ghost, portrait, I don't know.

Laura: I don't think it will be a ghost because it's been made pretty clear that anyone who's been brought back as a ghost was kind of a somber person. Like Moaning Myrtle and Nearly Headless Nick, the Bloody Baron...

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: So, and I don't see Dumbledore as the type of person who wouldn't be willing to move on.

Andrew: Yeah, but I can picture Harry approaching the portrait for information by like discussing the past...

Laura: Oh absolutely. Yeah.

Andrew: It only gives the, the portrait is only a reflection of did we put it?

Laura: Personality.

Andrew: Personality, right, right.

Laura: It's just like the so called ghost that came out of Voldemort's want in Goblet of Fire. They're really only mirror images, they're not actually those people.

Kevin: Yeah, like I said before, I do hope that we'll see at least some of the legacy of Dumbledore.

Laura: Oh, I think we will. I think we will and I think that Dumbledore will probably have left Harry something and it's going to be something terribly cryptic because that's just how Dumbledore is.

Kevin: I'm fairly sure he's dead.


Laura: He's dead, get over it.

Kevin: I'm sorry Micah and Andrew, you're wrong.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: And what if we're right?

Kevin: Ummm...

Laura: Then I'm going to kick myself. [laughs]

Kevin: Then...

Micah: You can't say backwards compatible for a week.

Kevin: I was subconsciously correct without knowing it. You know, it was in my brain - I just, you know...


Laura: I was actually thinking about that, I was like, "You know, all the time I go on about Dumbeldore being dead, if he turns out to be alive, I'm never going to hear the end of it."

Kevin: The thing is that if he turns out to be alive, I'll be very upset.

Micah: I think a lot of people will be.

Laura: Yeah me too, because...

Kevin: Just the way she did it.

Laura: Yeah, that too.

Kevin: She made it at a perfect time where Harry is, it's about time Harry grows up and Harry has to start doing things for himself, and he has to start learning magic that's not second grade level.

Micah: I don't like the way she did it. He put up no fight whatsoever.

Kevin: But that's the whole point! Wouldn't it be a great way for him to die knowing that his death meant something more.

Micah: Crouched in a corner and, well yes.

Kevin: And begging Snape to kill him so that Snape's postition wasn't compromised so Harry could continue his quest. That's a pretty noble way to die.

Micah: What if Snape's evil?

Laura: I don't think he is.

Micah: And what if he's evil?

Kevin: I don't think Snape is entirely evil.

Emily: I don't like him either way.

Micah: Well I don't think Dumbledore's dead.


Kevin: Well that's your problem. I would be extremely upset if Dumbledore was...

Laura: So would I. I would too and for all the reasons mentioned, and not to mention there are pictures of me crying over the guy so if he doesn't turn up dead...

Kevin: Which we are going to post on starting...


Laura: Um, no we're not, ha ha ha - no. So if he turns out alive, and they have all that crap on me, I'm going to be ticked off. Like I cried for nothing.

Comparison To Other, Similar Books

Micah: But what if you compare it to other books. You know, like the Chronicles of Narnia, like the Lord of the Rings where you have that main character that appears to die but doesn't really.

Laura: Gandalf and a...

Micah: Aslan.

Laura: Aslan.

Andrew: Well I don't see that being down JK Rowling's alley.

Laura: He doesn't die.

Kevin: He doesn't die, Gandalf never...

Laura: It just makes it look like he does.

Micah: Okay, then Aslan.

Laura: I think it kind of alluded to it, sort of. But I don't think that, I also think that she doesn't want to make her books exactly like everyone elses books because there is a lot of influence from various and assorted books. Including on Lord of the Rings to Harry Potter, but I don't think she would follow it that closely.

Emily: I also think that, yeah, I also think that we're able to kind of follow the experience as the books are coming out, that we kind of see JK Rowling as God almost and we kind of appeal to her to undo death is what does. And I think that Dumbledore is dead and JKR, this is her way of showing that.

Laura: Mhm, definitely, and also one thing that I have always thought is that Jo is always stressing that children are greatly underestimated in what they can handle in literature. And she talked about how after her mom died, death became such a real thing to her, and I don't think she would take death so lightly as to make you think a character you loved so much is dead, and then have them come back.

Kevin: Yeah, I don't see her decieving people like that.

Laura: Okay, I think we pretty much have...

Kevin: Killed that. We killed it.

Laura: I think we Avada Kedavred that, bascially.

Andrew: We Avada Kedavred that. [laughs]

Laura: It's been AKed.

Andrew: All right, I think we covered that pretty well. In conclusion, Dumbledore is not dead. [laughs]

Kevin: He is dead.


Andrew: And the discussion will go on forever. Well, until Book 7 at least. Let's move on to "Voicemails." Mr. Kevin Steck.

Kevin: Okay. Sorry.

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#244 (November 20th, 2011): For the first time ever, MuggleCast has a DVD commentary! Watch Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part 2 on DVD with us. We'll comment on each and every scene - it's as if we're in your living room watching alongside you!

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