MuggleCast 237 Transcript (continued)
Listener Feedback: Deathly Hallows - Part 2 (continued)
Andrew: [laughs] Next e-mail is from Jade, 17, of the UK. Eric, can you read that one?
Eric: Yep. Jade says:
"Hi, I just wanted to comment on what Andrew said in Episode 236 about the film's explanation of 'The Prince's Tale' and how it made it look as though Harry was Snape's son."
I think I said that, actually.
"I went to see the film on the opening day with my mom, who has never read the books but has watched the films, and as soon as the credits came up she turned to me and said, 'So Harry is Snape's kid?!'"
"And after laughing, I thought about how it looked to somebody who hasn't read the books and it really wasn't clear. They lost a bit of the backstory which was disappointing, however I know that they can't put the whole book into a 130 minute film, but they shouldn't cut important parts. They could have cut the scene where Ron and Hermione are attempting to kill Nagini and explained Snape and Dumbledore's backstory more. This is just my opinion, thanks for reading and I love your show!"
Micah: Well, I mean...
Eric: So, is Harry...
Eric: ...and Snape...
Micah: ...they made a point the entire series of saying that he looks like James.
Eric: No, they didn't.
Micah: Anybody who...
Eric: Or not in the...
Micah: ...meets him for the first time, "You look like your father, but you have your mother's eyes."
Eric: In the movies they haven't, though. In the movies they - it's really more, "You have your mother's eyes."
Matt: No. Well, in Prisoner of Azkaban they - [laughs] no, Sirius goes, "You look so much like your father."
Eric: Prisoner of Azkaban was seven years ago.
Matt: Right. Well...
Eric: The film audience may need to be reminded, whereas I'm saying in Deathly Hallows - Part 2 it's a little bit overwhelming how Snape is just - James Potter is almost nonexistent. It's awkward seeing James Potter in the Resurrection Stone scene, because he's like, "Oh yeah, go get them, son!" But it's weird because all we've found out about the whole film is how much Snape loves Lily and has always loved Lily, and it's been unrequited love. So it just seemed like - well, Snape was obviously the bigger subplot...
Matt: Of course he was.
Eric: ...compared to James.
Matt: He's the bigger subplot...
Eric: In the books.
Matt: ...out of any of the other adult characters.
Eric: Yeah. It's just odd. I thought that that was something that people could get confused about watching the film. It does seem like...
Matt: I don't think so, unless this is the first Potter film they saw. I mean, if you follow the movies it's obvious that - I mean, Snape and Lily never even kissed.
Matt: He was just in love with her. He was infatuated with her from the beginning.
Eric: Well, then there is the added scene in the movie of him cradling her dead body.
Matt: Right, but he wasn't cradling Harry.
Andrew: But that makes it look like they were really...
Eric: But Harry is watching.
Andrew: ...really connected.
Eric: Yeah, and baby Harry is watching Snape.
Andrew: Yeah, being like, "Is that my daddy?"
Matt: Well, he can't be like, "Okay, you two look like you need to be alone. I'm going to get out of my crib and leave. I'll be downstairs."
Andrew: Yeah, he sort of has no choice.
Matt: He's not going anywhere, he's in a crib.
Eric: I'm going to wait for Hagrid out front.
Andrew: But I think Jade's mom could have been on to something there. New fan fiction. Well, not that it doesn't exist already.
Micah: And how irresponsible of Snape to just leave a baby in a house...
Micah: ...that's completely destroyed with two dead parents.
Andrew: Right. If he was the real father that wouldn't have happened. Next e-mail is from Adam, 26, of Alberta, Canada:
"Hey MuggleCast, I had a comment about the previous live episode of MuggleCast when you were talking about the way Bellatrix died. I don't think it really had anything to do with Bellatrix the way she died but it was completely the spell Molly used. Anyone who has played an RPG like 'Final Fantasy' would know that spell is 'Petrify' which turns your enemy into stone and then causes them to shatter. It was a spell we haven't seen before in 'Potter', but I think it was a nice touch (too bad she didn't have 'Stoneproof' equipped)."
Andrew: This is very nerdy talk here.
"I didn't care for the Voldemort/Harry battle, however. What did Harry do after he beat him? Walk into the school and say, 'Oh hey, by the way, Voldemort's dead. Just thought you should know'?"
You know it's Avada Kedavra, though, because it's a green spell.
Eric: Well, there are two distinct spells.
Andrew: A fan would know, anyway.
Eric: There are two distinct spells. There's one that causes Bellatrix to die, she gasps, turns into a skeleton, almost. And then Molly shoots another spell and Bellatrix explodes. So, it's not one spell. No matter what it is, it's not one spell.
Matt: To be honest, I would have preferred seeing Bellatrix's dead body lying against a wall like in the book. I think that's more scary.
Eric: I think several people have made that comment, yeah, where it's almost - it's more effective, for sure, if there's just a dead body and there's no life in it.
Matt: Mhm. It's great she exploded, but then it kind of made the audience a little desensitized when Voldemort exploded.
Eric: Yeah, especially because both Voldemort and Bellatrix - Voldemort has already lived without a body, so the fact that he dies and disintegrates, it doesn't really give the finality of him being gone.
Andrew: Micah, next e-mail.
Micah: Next e-mail comes from Sandra, 12, of Stoney Creek, Ontario, and she says:
"You guys were talking about Aberforth in Episode 236. Did Aberforth even have his goat in the movie? I might have seen it but I was probably bracing myself for what was going to go down in the next forty minutes. *cough Fred cough* Thanks for reading. I love you guys. Keep up the great work! (I'm not even just saying that for effect. I'd cry for hours if you guys stopped making MuggleCasts.)"
Micah: Well, good thing we're not.
Andrew: Well, to Micah's disappointment, I don't think the goat was in there at all, right?
Micah: No. The goat has only made a cameo, I believe, in Order of the Phoenix, right?
Andrew: So unfortunate.
Eric: Hey, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to keep looking for those film cells that they sell at the exhibition. I'm going to wait until I get that cell, the goat, I'm going to collect, and I'm looking for that scene with Aberforth and the goat from Order of the Phoenix. If anybody has it, put it up on eBay.
Micah: Can I just bring up something, though, on the previous e-mail? Was the spell that Molly did - was it the same one that Kingsley does, where he freezes the person and then he blasts them out the window?
Andrew: No, because then wouldn't Bellatrix have been frozen and then blasted?
Andrew: I mean, she kind of freezes but doesn't get blasted.
Micah: Well, the second spell was different, but I think the first one...
Matt: No, the first spell that Molly cast turned her into stone.
Matt: Because she started to crack, and then she just shattered her.
Andrew: Is that even a spell, though? Is that just for a movie effect?
Matt: That's just for movie effect.
Eric: Absolutely it's a movie effect.
Eric: But why on earth should that mean it isn't real?
Matt: Oh my God. [laughs]
Eric: But with Kingsley and the Death Eater, real quick, going out the window, I thought the Death Eater went out the window because it's like velocity, every action has an equal and opposite reaction, right? So I just thought it was that the spell was some kind of a reversal. The Death Eater went out the window in a sense because he was coming through the window when he was hit with the spell. Does that make sense?
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
Eric: So I just feel like it pushed him away but it wasn't necessarily a spell to push him away.
Andrew: Next e-mail is from Chris, 18, of the USA:
"I was listening to the episode from right after 'Deathly Hallows - Part 1' came out and remembered how so many 'Potter' fans were looking forward to seeing what happens in 'Part 2' with Wormtail since he didn't die like he was supposed to in 'Part 1'."
So, how do you all feel about that?
Andrew: I am still disappointed. I mean, I think that would have been an easy thing to kind of add and I wonder if they shot it even, or if they just completely took it out.
Eric: Who was it - was it one of the press conferences, Andrew, where somebody just admitted - it was like David Heyman who said, "Yeah, you're not going to get a resolution on the Wormtail thing."
Andrew: Yes. I can't remember when that came to light, but yeah, I remember that being said.
Eric: But - so this is a big distinction where as of the books Wormtail is dead, as of the end of the movies Wormtail is completely alive!
Matt: Wormtail is just a big question mark.
Eric: I swear they're making a sequel.
Eric: I swear it. They're making a sequel. All the Deathly Hallows are on Hogwarts grounds, except possibly the cloak but...
Andrew: Next e-mail, Eric?
Eric: Dominique, 19, of Florida writes:
"I was just curious to see what you guys thought about how the movie portrayed, or rather butchered, the Teddy Lupin plot. I mean, in Movie 5 Remus and Tonks tried to tell everyone they were pregnant but that didn't work out. So instead they just suddenly bring it up again in 'Harry Potter 7: Part 2'..."
Micah: Movie 7.
Eric: Yeah, it is Movie 7. It's supposed to be Movie 7, it says "5".
"Remus and Tonks tried to tell everyone they were pregnant but that didn't work out. So instead they just suddenly bring it up again in 'Harry Potter 7: Part 2' and don't even bother putting him in the epilogue later? Why waste the breath to even mention him then? I know it's a small thing but I'd love to hear what you guys think of it. Cheers and thanks for the podcasts!"
Andrew: Because you're supposed to have a reason to feel bad that Tonks and Lupin are dead, and that was the best they could do. I wish there was more. I agree there should have been and really I would have loved to have more viewers realize, "Oh, this is kind of full circle with Teddy losing his parents in war just like Harry did."
Micah: They did cast him, right? For the epilogue? They just never - maybe they shot scenes?
Matt: He may have been in the background somewhere but - I'm glad they at least kept when Harry was talking to Remus about his son, because I think fans would have been even more upset if they didn't mention it at all.
Eric: Interestingly, David Yates said when Micah interviewed him that his favorite character was Lupin. So I thought - when I heard that from David Yates I went back in my memory and tried to remember if David Yates had ever really catered to Lupin, really given him some screen-time. Because Lupin is one of those characters where he doesn't have that much of a role after Book 3 but he's always there and always supporting. But I just went back and I remembered sort of putting up the wedding tent in HP 7: Part 1, there was a good line in Deathly Hallows - Part 2 - when he's quoting somebody, Kingsley says, "Who said that?" and Lupin says, "Me." So there are those good moments that Lupin has and talking to Harry about his son is one of them.
Andrew: All right. Micah, the final e-mail today, please.
Micah: Last e-mail from Gonzalo, 26, from Peru, and he says:
"Hi guys, second time writer here, long time listener."
Good to know we have fans down in South America. That's pretty cool.
"I wanted to suggest that you talk about the look of the Grey Lady on the next show, and why she didn't look on..."
I guess he means "in the same way."
"...as other ghosts did in other films, or why she turned into a blue ball like a Patronus. About strange places to hear your show, this last episode I heard while doing canopy in Cusco on my BlackBerry, Peru, city of Machu Picchu, and other Incan ruins!"
"Thanks for an awesome show. Hope you guys keep up the excellent job now that the films are over."
So, we've been heard in the ancient ruins of the Incan people. [laughs]
Andrew: So wait, was Gonzalo searching for blackberries, or listened on a BlackBerry?
Micah: I think he meant...
Matt: No, he was listening on a BlackBerry...
Micah: ...he listened on a Blackberry.
Matt: ...while setting up a canopy.
Andrew: Oh, I see.
Andrew: If anybody listens to us while hunting for blackberries, please let us know.
Eric: [laughs] So, about the e-mail, the Grey Lady, right?
Andrew: Yeah. I liked her. I can't remember - what's the name of the actress who plays her? She stars on Boardwalk Empire. Somebody could look that up real quick. But yeah, she's a great actress, and I remember Dan commenting on how much of a pleasure it was to work with her.
Eric: Well, on our MuggleCast, I mentioned that as being a contender for my favorite scene in the film. But I also believe I mentioned at the live show at LeakyCon that the Grey Lady - it confused me at first because they did make her look differently than the other ghosts in previous films. They made her look more like she was there, and it confused me because I thought it was a very similar effect to what they did with the Resurrection Stone, which is possibly an issue because the Resurrection Stone doesn't really create ghosts, right? Or, if everybody in the Resurrection Stone scene was a ghost and they said that they had been here the whole time to Harry, does that mean that they were wandering around in the Forbidden Forest the whole time as ghosts ever since they died? It didn't make sense to me.
Micah: Well, they cut out the whole backstory, and look, I understand the whole Bloody Baron tie-in to the Grey Lady, but as far as looks, I mean, isn't it the same as what they did with Dobby? I mean, Dobby looked completely different in Part 1 than he did in Chamber of Secrets. I think it's just a matter of technology.
Matt: And ten years.
Micah: And what about - did you guys notice - I think it was a way of David Yates or even David Heyman throwing it back to Sorcerer's Stone when she passes through Harry, kind of like Voldemort does in the first movie.
Andrew: Yeah, I thought that was cool. But I think it also showed her...
Eric: Well, doesn't Myrtle do that too? Myrtle does that, doesn't she?
Matt: Well, also in Prisoner of Azkaban.
Andrew: It's also kind of her anger, I think, just kind of giving Harry a hit. Obviously he doesn't feel anything, but - I don't know, it adds sort of like a - it shows her anger.
Andrew: Anyone looked up who plays her?
Matt: Oh, Kelly McDonald.
Andrew: Kelly McDonald.
Eric: Kelly McDonald. The other thing about ghosts real quick is you don't need to show them as being completely transparent, or mostly transparent, to sell the idea that they're a ghost. I think what really sells the idea that they're ghosts, at least in the book, is that they are visible, they are sort of a physical presence. But in terms of their personality they are in their own world. So I thought Kelly McDonald portrayed that really well, where they don't really interact with the living all that much. They're kind of private. So when the Grey Lady says that Luna is kind - Luna is like the only human she speaks to, and otherwise she - they're part of this earth, but they're not supposed to be here and it's this ongoing conflict that exists in the books, I think. But it was really kind of well put on the film with the Grey Lady.
Listener Tweets: Favorite Deathly Hallows - Part 2 Scene
Andrew: All right, now it's time for the lightning round. Tweets: Favorite Scene. These are submitted by people who follow us on the MuggleCast Twitter account. If you'd like to follow us, just go to Twitter.com/MuggleCast. AlexD336 writes:
"Favorite scene: when Harry confronted Snape in the Great Hall. The Snape/McGonagall duel right after was great as well!"
Amy Wilson writes:
"Loved Snape's memory, but my favorite line is Dumbledore's..."
"...'Words are our most inexhaustible form of magic.'"
[back to normal voice]
"Great tribute to Jo."
I apologize for my poor Dumbledore impression.
Micah: Ben's not here.
Andrew: Alicia Perez writes:
"'The Prince's Tale' and when Neville killed Nagini are definitely my favorite scenes. Good on Yates for those two scenes. Amazing."
"My favorite 'Deathly Hallows - Part 2' scene was when Neville was fighting against the Death Eaters near the bridge. So funny."
Pablo Ruiz V writes:
"My favorite scene was when McGonagall awakens the statues, minus the comic relief moment that sucked."
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: Glad he agrees with me. Geoffrey Hutton writes:
"I loved how twisted Griphook was in the movie. He was almost scary."
Eric: I thought that did...
Micah: Yeah, he was scary.
Eric: He was scary, but I thought that did Griphook a disservice.
Andrew: No, but he's a - why? He's...
Eric: Goblins as a...
Andrew: He's not supposed to be pretty.
Eric: Right, but goblins as a race are not developed in these films, so - we're supposed to understand goblins to be just tired of all the segregation that wizards give to them. But instead, when Griphook says, "You are a most unusual wizard," to Harry, it carries no weight. We don't know why he says that, and furthermore, Griphook is such a villain in this film, due to the short time he has onscreen, that it doesn't actually matter that Griphook thinks that what Harry did by burying Dobby is a damn decent thing. It doesn't matter.
Matt: Well, he is kind of a villain. I mean, he screwed them over, in the book and in the film.
Eric: He does but he's much deeper, I think, in the books, and so showing him when he says that line about how it was decent about Dobby, "You are a most unusual wizard," we just don't get that. He's too busy being a villain and creepy.
Matt: But - I mean, do you expect him to explain why he's an unusual wizard in the movie?
Eric: I - it would have been...
Matt: Wouldn't you think it kind of slowed down the film?
Eric: Well, no, no, it would have detracted from what - where Griphook's character needed to be, which was to betray them in the vault.
Matt: Well, he did betray them, though.
Eric: That's what I'm saying, so they needed him to serve that purpose. It's just - he's creepy, whatever. He's a creepy goblin, but it furthers our - I don't want to say racism. It furthers our hesitation, our - it just creeps us out, right? He's a creepy - he's creepy looking and therefore, his personality is creepy. That's not - I don't agree with that. That's just something that happens in the film.
Andrew: GenTink writes:
"When the teachers are enchanting the castle. OMG, so perfect!"
"I really liked the King's Cross scene. It was really moving."
"I love when Hermione is Bellatrix. I think Helena Bonham Carter did an excellent job of acting how Hermione would have."
Eric: Yeah, I agree with that. She did do an amazing job. I'd like to see another five or ten minutes of that going on, though, in terms of the film, because you can just tell - we heard, what, the set report, right? We heard that Helena spent a lot of time following Emma...
Eric: ...to find out mannerisms and stuff.
Andrew: Just like Dan with the seven Potters, yeah. And finally, Barbara Pt writes:
"I've got tons of favorite scenes but the sequence of the battle with the trio going to the boathouse got me chills! Outstanding!"
Something Missing You Wanted in Deathly Hallows - Part 2?
Andrew: Yeah, that was cool. All right, and to wrap up the show, something missed? Anything that you guys missed that you wanted to have seen in there?
Eric: In the movie? Somebody has something in the doc.
Micah: Oh, I just - I threw that in there and I think we talked a little bit about it on the last show, but they never made it clear - the movie is called Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part 1 and Part 2 but they never made it clear that Harry was in possession of all three. There's no discussion of the Invisibility Cloak, the Resurrection Stone is kind of mentioned in passing, but it's just - it's weird. I mean, he's in control of all three of them and yet I don't know that it's ever made apparent to the viewer.
Eric: No, it's definitely not. But I don't have anything that was missed that I wanted in there, so I'll just echo what Micah said if I can, that - you made a point, Micah, where the title of the movie is Deathly Hallows. For that reason and that reason alone, I think they should have explained all three Deathly Hallows. Otherwise, to me it was never about the Deathly Hallows, it was about the Horcruxes. But the book really tries to show that Harry has this choice, right? About - he could choose Hallows and then just go keep running from Voldemort. But ultimately he does need to destroy all the Horcruxes, so I never thought it was a choice, but the fact that they didn't explain it in a movie called the Deathly Hallows, I thought was a good-enough argument.
Micah: Well - I mean, they explained what they were. I mean, you got it in Part 1 with The Tale of the Three Brothers and then you got it in Part 2 with Ollivander. But what was not made clear was that Harry was...
Matt: The one true master of death.
Micah: Yeah, exactly.
Matt: Yeah. Well, with The Deathly Hallows 2, I was really, really disappointed that Harry didn't mend his wand back.
Matt: I really thought that was a big thing they should have kept in the movie, and I...
Andrew: For closure, closure with the wand.
Matt: Well, yeah, closure. I mean, he snapped the wand in half and threw it over the bridge. Okay, that's fine, that's dramatic. But dude, he needed to mend his...
Eric: Well, he had Draco's wand.
Matt: He had Draco's wand, but it's not his wand.
Eric: Well, it is, though. In the beginning of the movie when Ollivander says that its allegiance may have changed, it is Harry's wand now.
Matt: But it's not Harry's [emphasizes "Harry"] wand. Harry himself said in the book that that's the one that he loves.
Eric: Not the one he has had previously.
Eric: Yes, but - so why - if Harry doesn't have his own phoenix core wand, why is Voldemort and him doing the Priori Incantatem, or the wand-binding, red versus green light shooting out of their - why does that happen if they're not...
Matt: Well, why does that happen with Voldemort and Dumbledore in Order of the Phoenix? That's just incorrect canon.
Micah: Yeah, why does it happen with Arthur and a Death Eater earlier in the movie?
Matt: Why did we see so many of it happening in the courtyard?
Eric: Well, I mean...
Matt: It's just - they just use that for effect.
Eric: I guess there's a difference between Priori Incantatem when ghosts show up - that's actually - right? Isn't that Priori Incantatem? As opposed to just the green light versus the red light. But still, it's just - previously it had been used to show the connection between Harry and Voldemort, and I guess regardless of what wand they have, they still have that connection.
Micah: Well, it's also because the Elder wand is never going to betray its true master.
Micah: It's never going to betray Harry, so it's not going to be able to cast a spell against him.
Eric: That's a good point.
Andrew: Well, thanks everyone who sent in e-mails and tweets for today's show. We really appreciate it. It was a fan-powered show!
Andrew: We couldn't do it without you.
Micah: With some old men.
Andrew: With some cranky, old geezers. Don't forget, MuggleCast.com has all the information you need about this wonderful podcast programme that we inject into your ears and hope you become addicted. If you visit MuggleCast.com at the top, you can click on "Contact" and fill out the feedback form to get in touch with us, or just head over to the right side of the page. From there, you can subscribe and review us on iTunes, you can follow us on Twitter which is Twitter.com/MuggleCast, you can "Like" us on Facebook which is Facebook.com/MuggleCast, or you can follow us on Tumblr which is MuggleCast.Tumblr.com. I see the top image on the MuggleCast Tumblr right now is Matt Britton's NOH8 image.
Andrew: Look at you, Matt. Making a statement.
Matt: God, I'm sexy.
Andrew: That's something. That is something. You're very white.
Matt: Thank you.
Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, so MuggleCast.com has all the information that you need. Our next episode as previously reported will be August 21st, and hopefully we'll all be in Pottermore by then. I imagine there's going to be endless amounts of stuff to talk about. It may have to be - some people want a twelve-hour show, another twelve-hour show. That may be a twelve-hour show [laughs] of us just going through everything, because there's going to be a lot. And, what's this, a rumor about...
Andrew: ...Will Dunn, one of the actors in the epilogue scene?
Andrew: What's this about?
Micah: It's a - is it a rumor? I don't know. I was going to say it as fact, but... [laughs]
Andrew: Oh. Well, I don't know, what is it?
Micah: No, Will Dunn wanted to come on the show and talk a little bit about the epilogue, filming the epilogue...
Eric: It's a fact, Jack!
Micah: It is a fact.
[Show music begins]
Micah: So, hopefully for our next episode, Episode 238, he'll come on, maybe some of the other actors, kid actors, that were in the epilogue as well.
Andrew: Very good.
Micah: So, look forward to that.
Andrew: All right, thanks everyone for listening! I'm Andrew Sims.
Eric: I'm Eric Scull.
Micah: I'm Micah Tannenbaum.
Matt: And I'm Matt Britton.
Andrew: See you next time, with Will Dunn and Pottermore talk, for Episode 238. Buh-bye!
[Show music continues]
Written by: The Transcribers