MuggleCast | The #1 Most-Listened to Harry Potter Podcast 3

MuggleCast 244 Transcript

Show Intro

["Hedwig's Theme" plays]

Micah: Because we don't stop talking for two straight hours, this is MuggleCast Episode 244 for November 20th, 2011.

[Show music begins]

Micah: This week's episode of MuggleCast is brought to you by, the internet's leading provider of audiobooks with more than 100,000 downloadable titles across all types of literature, including fiction, non-fiction and periodicals. For a free audiobook of your choice, go to

[Show music continues]

Andrew: Welcome to MuggleCast's big Deathly Hallows: Part 2 DVD commentary! We've never done a Harry Potter commentary before, so this is exciting. Eric, Micah and I are here, and how this works is you get to watch the movie along with us. And to start out, we have to sync up the film so everybody is watching the same exact thing, the same exact frames. So, the way we're going to do that is ask you guys listening at home, put in your DVD - and it has to be the DVD version, by the way, it can't be Blu-ray - and hit "Play" to start the movie. And once you see the water, the very first frame - once you see the water, press "Pause" and then we'll tell you in a moment on "three" to press "Play", okay?

Micah: Before we start the commentary, we'd like to remind you that today's episode is brought to you by, the internet's leading provider of audiobooks with more than 100,000 downloadable titles across all types of literature, and featuring audio versions of many New York Times bestsellers. For listeners of MuggleCast, Audible is offering a free audiobook so you can try out their amazing service. One audiobook to consider is A Game of Thrones, the first book in A Song of Ice and Fire series by author George R. R. Martin. In a land where summers can last decades and winters a lifetime, trouble is brewing. As the cold returns, sinister forces are massing beyond the protective Wall. To the south, the king's powers are failing, with his most trusted advisor mysteriously dead and enemies emerging from the throne's shadow. In this land of extremes, plots and counterplots, soldiers and sorcerers, each side fights to win the deadliest of conflicts: the game of thrones. Recently adapted into a television series by HBO, immerse yourself into the world of Westeros before Season 2 hits screens this March. So, why not get it for free and listen to it just like you do MuggleCast? To do so, or to grab any book of your choice, visit Again, that's We thank Audible for supporting the show.

Andrew: So, on "three" - we're assuming now you have it paused to the very first second that you see the water.

Eric: Paused to have it - yeah, very first second.

Andrew: Right. And then on "three" in a moment, press "Play". So, one, two, three. Okay, everybody should be beginning now, yes?

Micah: Yes, very eerie music.

Andrew: Yeah. I need to put my headphones in, I just realized I haven't done that. Oh, there's the Jenga puzzle.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: And what we'll be doing this whole time is just talking about the movie while it's playing. Hopefully we have things to say about it or else [laughs] this is going to be a funny commentary.

Micah: Yeah, we've got to remember...

[Eric laughs]

Micah: ...not to watch the movie and - just watch the movie.

Eric: Yeah.

Opening Montage

Andrew: So, everybody should be seeing the W.B. logo now, yes?

Micah: Yes.

Eric: Yes. So, let's talk about this. This W.B. logo, kind of the unexpected character in all of these films. It always looks different, right? It grows with age.

Andrew: Yes.

Eric: I think in Half-Blood Prince, it was rusty. What is it this time?

Andrew: Well, it looks pretty put-together but it's definitely very dark. It's - I remember in the first film, I believe it was a bright W.B. logo.

Eric: Yeah. I think the second film, it was up in the sky. I think that was when they really started playing with it. It was above Little Whinging.

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: And right now...

Andrew: This music...

Micah: Yeah, you're hearing what David Yates spoke about in our interview, that woman that they flew in all the way from Japan.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: And it's just beautiful, I love it so much. And that shot of Snape is so iconic. And didn't he say just the other day that they were thinking of getting rid - or in the original script, they didn't have Snape but then Yates insisted on it, I think.

Eric: Yeah, because he wanted to set Snape up as sort of one of the main characters of this act.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: But the other thing is if they didn't open at Hogwarts - [laughs] the good thing about them opening at Hogwarts is that Harry Potter Part 1 - Deathly Hallows: Part 1 - doesn't have any Hogwarts, so people have just gone - to doing a marathon, they have gone two and a half hours without Hogwarts. It's so funny that they had to fit Hogwarts in the first few frames [laughs] of the second film because it's just, like, "Ahhh, there it is..."

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: know? You just feel so - like you're watching a Potter film again. So...

Andrew: And it was very clear that now Snape is in charge, so it was a good reminder as well.

Shell Cottage

Micah: So, now we're at Shell Cottage. We just got a shot of Harry looking into the mirror, seeing Aberforth.

Andrew: Whenever I look back at this scene - whenever I watch this scene now, I think of all those paparazzi photos that came out of that when they were shooting...

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: ...this exterior, and Bellatrix...

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: ...was there and...

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: ...Griphook.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Luna.

Andrew: I remember Evanna - I think at LeakyCon she was, like, "I have the first line of the film!" [laughs]

Eric: [laughs] Which was funny.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Also, it's good to see Bill and Fleur.

Andrew: I love how their house has no - the ceiling is clear, you can see right through it. It's just windows.

Eric: They have no privacy? [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, at least that part of it.

[Prolonged silence]

Talk with Griphook

Eric: Harry is not in a good mood.

Andrew: Mhm.

Micah: Griphook looks like he is meditating a little bit here.

Andrew: I think he is, right? I mean, what the hell else...

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: ...could he be doing?

[Eric laughs]

Micah: Sleeping.

Andrew: Oh.

Eric: [laughs] Yeah.

Andrew: Is that how they sleep? Like that?

Micah: Warwick Davis just passed out...

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: ...mid-scene.

Eric: Yeah. They poked him beneath the camera and...

Andrew: Oh no...

Eric: ...he sprang to life.

Andrew: ...what's my line again? Crap.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: It's - the interesting thing is that he's still got his wound from Part 1. It's just being consistent where Bellatrix slashed him with her dagger on his cheek.

Micah: I like the fact that they kept this line in, "You buried the elf?" because it showed kind of Harry's personality and they tried to make that apparent that the goblin in the books was very surprised by the fact that he showed that kind of treatment towards a creature.

Eric: Yeah, yeah, because Griphook is all about the humans subjugating lower wizards and by all about him - I mean, all against - it's one of the reasons that - maybe it's the only reason that Griphook even helps Harry, which is very important. That line that they added, "It's complicated," what do you think about that? It kind of - I like that it sums it up really - it gets it accomplished.

Andrew: I got to be honest, I found this whole scene to feel very scripted.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I don't know. Just the way they're trading off lines and - "It's complicated," thing, I know that usually got in a laugh with the audiences. I don't know.

Micah: But...

Andrew: I wasn't...

Eric: Yeah...

Andrew: ...too big of a fan.

Eric: ...I know what you mean because - I mean, doesn't this sequence - it takes weeks in the book? Hallows and Horcruxes, and Griphook and Ollivander, and figuring this all out. But it's very clear they're at the beginning of the movie now because, like you said, things are very snappy.

Andrew: Mhm.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Definitely Warwick Davis - the makeup here and there are few special features not on the DVD but - that you can find about those prosthetics and stuff, and it's just amazing.

Andrew: He loves...

Eric: Amazing process.

Andrew: ...talking about it.

Eric: Yeah. Well, he has sit under it for four hours...

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: second skin.

Andrew: Yeah, I guess you may as well make it worthwhile.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Tries to tempt him with gold.

Andrew: Did Harry really think that was going to work? Was that in the book?

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: I'll give you money.

Micah: He works at a bank, he can get gold whenever he wants.

Andrew: Right, yeah.

Eric: Right?

Micah: Even if it's not his. I'll borrow from this vault today.

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: Another vault the next.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: They'll never know.

Eric: Is that what you think they do? [laughs]

Micah: Well, they're not herding for money, I don't think.

Eric: No, that's true.

[Prolonged silence]

Talk with Ollivander

Andrew: This is a - this scene is purely for the audience to understand what's going on, where the three are sitting there in the stairwell to - some little exposition for the viewers.

Eric: Yeah. And this is just interesting, Fleur is almost - I don't know. I didn't really get this. She's upset that they're being so pushy or something. She's just, like, "He's weak."

Micah: He's an...

Eric: "You shouldn't..."

Micah: ...old man though.

Andrew: Yeah, he looks...

Eric: Well - he is. Should they have - let's talk about that. Should they have made him more spritely like he was in the first film? Or is he too old? Did they overdo it...

Andrew: No...

Eric: ...for Ollivander?

Andrew: ...I think - he's stressed, he had to face Voldemort, I think he's just weak. It's kind of reflective of the film. You know how we were saying [laughs] the W.B. logo, it's like that where he's been through a lot in the past seven years.

Eric: Yeah, that's true. It has been all seven years since we've seen him, so...

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, even the actor - I assume he's still a healthy man, but...

Eric: That's what it brings into question though and just, like, "Oh my God, poor Ollivander!" But yeah, the other interesting thing here - and it's coming up when Harry says, "You're lying," about the Deathly Hallows. That's just - that moment, [laughs] it's...

Micah: Well, I thought this was a really crucial moment that people can miss if they weren't necessarily paying attention where they're talking about allegiance of Draco Malfoy's wand and how it's sort of...

Eric: Oh.

Micah: ...changed over to Harry now.

Eric: Here I was not paying attention to that. [laughs] Yeah, it is important and - well, I mean, it's important in the way that - honestly, you get the explanation at the end of the film so it's not really that important. But it's important for them to have put this in because it just shows again that they're following the books.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: [imitating Ollivander] "Those of us that have studied wandlore..."

Andrew: I was wondering - like with Griphook, I was wondering what Ollivander was doing before Harry walked in because Ollivander was just chilling there in the chair.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Was he counting the shells on his...

Micah: Well, Fleur was in the room too.

Andrew: Oh, right.

Micah: I don't know.

Andrew: Ooh.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: A little TLC.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: [laughs] Whoa, whoa.

Micah: He is the wand-master.

Eric: Playing with the Veela, okay.

Andrew: All right, Micah.

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Calm down.

Micah: All right, I'm done with the jokes for right now.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Micah: More later.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Yeah, more later.

Andrew: More to come...

Eric: So...

Andrew: the second hour.

Eric: God, if we still did the caption contest, this would be a caption about the starfish on the left talking to the seashell. He'll be, like, "Hey! I got to be in this scene. Yeah! My family is so proud of me. How about you, seashell?" He'll be, like, "You may not know this, but I was actually at the hut on the rock in Sorcerer's Stone. So proud to be back." Yeah, but just Dan's acting - seeing how Dan's acting has improved. He's accusatory but he's also sympathetic at the same time towards Ollivander. And Ollivander just says flat out, "He tortured me. Yeah, what are you going to do?" But the inner - [laughs] the inner jerk [laughs] is about to come out when Harry leaves, obviously, but just right now it's so real. I was so glad that they got the Ollivander back because I think David Yates talked about that at some point too, about not getting John Hurt back. They said they really wanted to get the first actor to show - because it almost doesn't work otherwise. Because you can get an old man, you can get a Hagrid-looking man, but unless it's the original guy who looks so different...

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: can't - it's not going to - it can't resonate as well.

Andrew: Well, and it's also kind of like the - it's a testament to how epic these films are. And we've touched on it before how - they've really been able to keep every actor, they haven't had to replace anybody. Of course, Richard Harris unfortunately because of this death and then, of course, Jamie Waylett because of his drug problems, he played Crabbe.

Eric: Drug and bomb problems.

Andrew: But other than that, nobody had to be replaced, nobody pulled out of the film saying, "Oh, I don't want to do this anymore." It just shows how much the actors and actresses truly cared about this series and wanted to see it through.

Micah: Yep. And this was actually...

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: What we're watching right now on the beach, there was a deleted scene or two that helped explain things a little bit more to the audience. And what did you guys think? Would they have made more sense being in here?

Andrew: What was the scene? With the two-way mirror, I think? A little more...

Eric: So - yeah, first it was - actually there were - yeah, three mini-scenes because it was Bill Weasley and Fleur, Fleur gives Hermione the black clothing - just a black robe or black underwear that she has hidden away, gives it to Hermione to dress up as Bellatrix. Bill cautions Harry about doing a deal with a goblin. He says to Harry, "You got to really be careful how you worded it." And then the next scene is Harry at Dobby's grave, he's looking into the mirror. Ron comes up, I think - or no, first it's Luna, he just talks with Luna. Luna is kind of on her way back to school. Great line by Evanna Lynch, she says - or he says, "You know it won't be the same that it was since you left?" and he's referring to Hogwarts, and she says, "Neither will I."

Andrew: I think it would have slowed it down a little bit.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I mean - you know, "The pacing, the pacing." [laughs]

Eric: Well...

Gringotts Break-in

Micah: And that quick scene we just saw right there, Warwick Davis actually talked to you, Eric, about being able to go under the Invisibility Cloak and how cool...

[Eric laughs]

Micah: ...that was for him to...

Eric: He was happy because Griphook is a character, finally, that matters to the plot. And I think he said too, he's enjoyed playing Professor Flitwick, he's enjoyed playing other side characters, the choir director in the third film who was not Professor Flitwick at the time, they later molded the two characters. But characters who ultimately have no bearing on the main characters...

Micah: Right.

Eric: ...and sort of the plot as it were, so I think it was rewarding for Warwick Davis, he said, to be in a kind of situation where you're affecting the plot and also to ride under the Invisibility Cloak as you said...

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: ...because [laughs] it's a status symbol of sorts.

Micah: And this whole scene right here, they basically reconstructed Gringotts from the first film. And I think if you have a chance to watch the feature "The Goblins of Gringotts", it really explains a lot about how they went about casting for this particular scene and all of the goblins that you do see in this particular shot, as well as when you spoke to David Yates he also mentioned how much work went into recreating the set.

Eric: Yeah, it's one of the classic stories of how so much work goes into about four seconds on film. This seems a little bit longer than that, but just the idea - they actually had I think it's forty-five sets of prosthetics, sixty actors total in this sequence. But about this scene and how it relates to the book, this is obviously very, very different in the book. In the book, doesn't she present her wand? Because she has Bellatrix's wand on hand.

Micah: Right, but - she does now because the scene we just saw with Ollivander, he checks and he says that it's Bellatrix's wand.

Eric: Yeah, but she doesn't present it here and I think - isn't the reason that - they know that the real Bellatrix has said that, "My wand has been stolen," so if somebody does present the wand then they'll know she's an impostor.

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Is that how that works?

Micah: I'm pretty sure...

Eric: Okay.

Micah:'re right. Now this is just...

Eric: Yeah, something like that. But...

Micah: awesome scene and it would make a really cool ride. Andrew, I know you're pushing hard for this one.

Andrew: This is the ride right here! No, seriously. I mean, this is really what it's going to be.

Eric: Yeah. They would have to dig for it though. It would just take... [Andrew and Eric laugh]

Andrew: I mean, they're halfway there with that Poseidon's Journey ride. I mean...

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: ...all it practically needs is a new coat of paint.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: I mean, just kidding. They would have to actually knock out the building and everything, but...

Eric: You're actually right though. They have - that's like a cave, isn't it?

Andrew: Yeah. And imagine the ending of the ride where you're being chased by the dragon out of the cave, out of Gringotts. It'd be so cool.

Eric: I'm sold.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: I'm sold.

Andrew: You go through...

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: ...the water. I mean, it would be a perfect interactive ride!

[Eric laughs]

Micah: You could drop right here.

Eric: [laughs] Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, you fall.

Eric: [laughs] All your enchantments...

Andrew: You put your bag...

Eric: ...are washed away, yeah. That should be how you get off the ride though. They just - the seats tilt forward.

Andrew: It would be cool if you had clankers, you pulled them out of some area of your seat and you had to shake them at the dragon. And then...

Eric: You need to get the dragon...

Andrew: ...if you didn't, it would burst fake fire on you or something.

[Eric laughs]

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: "Oh no, you look like you again." Well, that was fun while it lasted.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Facial hair.

Andrew: I liked you better the other way.

Eric: The Final Frontier.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: [imitating the goblin] "What are you lot doing down here?" [laughs] [normal voice] It's funny because The Thief's Downfall or whatever washes away enchantments but you can just go and shoot another spell, and start enchanting yourself again as soon as you land...

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: ...because obviously they Imperio him right away again.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Oh no! Griphook!

Gringotts Dragon

Micah: So, were you guys really looking forward to seeing the dragon in this film?

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, we weren't surprised by it because we saw it beforehand but...

Micah: Now this would be...

Eric: Going back on the...

Micah: of the scenes though aside from the battle that would probably be showcased in terms of special effects, right? For, let's say, the Oscars.

Eric: Yeah, David Yates drew attention to that too. He ranked it - well, the Gringotts - the upcoming scene inside the vault, even on the DVD, or the Blu-Ray I should say, in the documentary, they talk about how that was the most - or its "Maximum Movie Mode" where they say that was the most difficult scene in the entire film to actually pull off. They had the most meetings about the vault scene. But regarding the dragon, David Yates had said too that there was a whole team devoted to it, and I think also in "Maximum Movie Mode" you see there's a particular moment where the dragon, when it finally escapes, has this breath of fresh air. And that realism, the idea that they - oh, it just really sold it for the audience.

Andrew: Yeah, we talked about that on 242 as well.

Eric: I remember too, the dragon - just going back through MuggleCast history, when we first saw it on the book cover...

Andrew: Yeah, the deluxe edition I think it was.

Eric: The deluxe edition book cover and we knew - we didn't even know that there would be a dragon in the book, right? That was the first kind of...

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Eric: ..."Oh, there's a dragon in this book!"

Andrew: And then I remember somebody started looking it up, it may have been you, Eric. You may have been looking at dragons in the wizarding world.

Eric: Yeah, we wanted to identify it because - and I thought I settled on the Antipodean Opaleye. It's an Australian dragon with obviously glazed-over eyes and we thought it was that because - I mean, it kind of matched the description in Fantastic Beasts and we know that J.K. Rowling wrote Fantastic Beasts with the rest of the series in mind, that there are characters, creatures that we meet later that were written in that book before the books were written. But however, what it ended up being, of course, was this Gringotts dragon which has glazed-over eyes but only because he spent his whole life underground, so it's not an Antipodean Opaleye, it's - who knows what kind of dragon it is.

Micah: Yeah, I think it was Episode 99 we spent - you, Laura and myself - probably over an hour analyzing that whole deluxe cover edition. I think it was one of the better episodes, it might actually be on the Wall of Fame. Or if it wasn't 99, it was very close.

Eric: Mhm.

Andrew: I know 99 is on the Wall of Fame.

Eric: I think we should also talk for a second here because this is - [laughs] again...

Andrew: A book change.

Eric: ...this is the scene that had - this is - well, it's a book change. They don't remain trapped in the vault and I don't understand why Griphook betrays them here because that line is changed too. I...

Andrew: It's a little twist, I think. It's typical filmmaking. "Oh, they trusted - " because remember Harry said just a few minutes - "Just get us into the vault. We're trusting you, Griphook."

Micah: Well, that's where the key scene between Bill and Harry would have worked because the viewers would have been able to recognize, oh, Bill warned him about making sure you were very clear with the deal that you structured with Griphook in terms of, "Oh, I'll get you into the vault but there's no guarantee I'm going to get you out."

Eric: I also think - and it's unfortunate to me, this goblin here for about five seconds. But then I also think it's setting it up because later we have to see Griphook dead, so maybe it just helps the audience not be very sympathetic about that. Because in the next scene - I mean, look at how - look at what being greedy, getting Godric Gryffindor's sword really did for you, Griphook. Voldemort killed you all the same.

Dragon Flight

Micah: Yeah, in this scene - I thought we got a couple of e-mails about how people were disappointed because it was actually Ron's plan to get on the dragon and they...

Eric: Right.

Micah: ...made it Hermione's in the movie...

Eric: It was...

Micah: it kind of - making Ron appear not as...

[Eric laughs]

Micah: ...intellectual, I guess, as he comes across eventually in the last book.

Eric: Yeah, that's exactly what the e-mails said and I remember that, and I just laughed.

Micah: And this is just...

Eric: I mean, not that it's...

Micah: ...awesome...

Eric: Oh God.

Micah: ...from a special effects standpoint, watching the dragon climb out here. Jurassic Park, here we come.

[Andrew and Eric laugh, Eric makes trumpet noises]

Micah: Well, remember when the T-rex shows up and...

Eric: Yeah!

Micah: get...

Eric: And it's...

Micah: ...those tremors? It's kind of like that.

Andrew: It's exactly like that, yeah. It may...

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: ...almost kind of be a reference to that.

Eric: I expected like a glass of water...

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: ...but of course, the goblins don't drink.

Andrew: Watching this during the test screening was not fun because it was very much not complete, so it was just bad. [laughs]

Eric: Oh, I loved that though, with the subtitles...

Andrew: Yeah, but...

Eric: know?

Micah: And here you go, here is this breath of fresh air.

Andrew: Here is the breath, yeah.

Eric: Yeah, where is it? Where is it?

Micah: We're about to get it.

[Prolonged silence]

Andrew: Right there.

Micah: Ahhh, a hard day's work.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Look at that, look at that.

Andrew: It's a nice break.

Eric: It's just panting, it's just like...

Andrew: I'm glad they did that.

Eric: I made it. I made it halfway.

Andrew: See, you wouldn't have gotten that if they didn't split it into two films. That was a precious...

Micah: Aww man...

Andrew: ...precious couple of extra seconds.

Micah: ...all those people's houses!

Andrew: [laughs] I know!

Micah: I hope they have dragon insurance.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: No repercussions. It's sort of like when - in Chamber of Secrets when Ron and Harry are flying with the Ford Anglia and all the Muggles can see it, and there's really no repercussions.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Unless - did Snape say they had to wipe all the minds of all those people? Maybe, I don't know.

Eric: Yeah. Well, speaking of dragon insurance, do you think they have to be notified that there is a dragon [laughs] in captivity nearby? All those shops? I mean, it's Diagon Alley. I guess they probably figure, right? Dragon insurance, gosh.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Dragons are actually banned from the major populous - in the wizarding world, aren't they? I mean, they're kept - Charlie works with them, they're kind of sheltered - or reservations for dragons. But on the whole, for obvious reasons, dragons are controlled, the population is very controlled by wizards. Oh man, this is - this reminded me of the locket strangling Harry in Part 1 because again he's underwater and Voldemort has some kind of epiphany.

Micah: Well...

Andrew: I love this scene so much.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: The way they did the Horcrux, Voldemort's P.O.'d scenes with Harry's connection I just thought were so well done.

Micah: Yeah, and it gives you deeper insight into the one that's at Hogwarts. But I like the change in the sense that Voldemort can feel when a Horcrux is being destroyed. I know that wasn't the case in the book but I thought it worked really well for the movie.

Eric: It does work well in the film and I think even Harry's little homing sensation, how he's able to find the Horcrux essentially in the vault by hearing it, listening for the little [makes "psst" noises] - but at the same time then, it also helps sell the fact that the part where we're eventually getting to where Harry is a Horcrux. And it's one of those things that just - it was a choice that really worked, I think, for the film. It just really, really worked because it helped them - it helped the audience to kind of understand without a whole lot of explanation that Harry had an unusual connection with them.

Micah: I wonder how angry they were that they had to probably jump in some cold water just for this scene.

Eric: Actually, this is - this scene - they said in the "Maximum Movie Mode" this was filmed on one of the coldest days in one of the coldest seasons in the backlot of the studio, and that they actually did narrowly escape real hypothermia from filming this scene. And I think it was because of the way the camera is moving around and around and around. But yeah, they said that by far, of the two last films, this was probably the hardest shot to really do just because it was so cold. And they're in England too, they're not filming in Florida or Ecuador or South America like Breaking Dawn. But it's just - you can imagine it's so rough, they're so cold. [laughs] Warwick Davis told a funny story here of Voldemort walking on this blood. Watching the film I'm just, like, "Oh my God." Malfoy - Lucius Malfoy is so proper and look what Voldemort has done to his house with all this blood everywhere. But Warwick Davis told the story of how during filming, because there was so much blood on the hardwood floor, [laughs] Ralph Fiennes actually slipped once...

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: ...and just completely fell over while filming that scene. But then David Yates has also said that they actually had to mop up a lot of that blood because it was too much for the ratings...

Andrew: [laughs] It was too much.

Eric: ...they were going for, yeah.

Andrew: Too much blood!

Eric: You can always - the thing is though, you can always mop up some blood, right? Just get it all out there and then take it away later instead of trying to digitally put blood in that...

Arrival into Hogsmeade

Micah: You know they actually used the noise from Mandrakes for that alarm?

Andrew: Really?

Eric: Really?

Micah: No, I just...

Andrew: Look at all these...

Micah: ...made that up.

Andrew: Oh.

[Micah laughs]

Eric: Oh damn.

Andrew: Got excited.

Eric: Really though?

Micah: It sounded like it though.

Eric: Is it called - what is it, the Caterwauling Charm? Or no?

Andrew: That's the annoying sound charm.

[Eric laughs]

The Hog's Head

Andrew: Okay, not a big fan of this scene. I wasn't really in the book either because they just suddenly trust Aberforth right here. I don't know. It seems very odd. There's a little hesitation but they're still letting the trio in and it's - I know they're in a desperate situation, but it just seemed like kind of a bad move.

Eric: Yeah. I mean, I think that the bad guys though, they shoot first, ask questions later, so for anybody...

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: acknowledge them, just be, like, "Come here, Potter. I take that..."

Micah: But again, tying it back to the deleted scene where Harry explains a little bit more to Ron about what he's seeing in the mirror saying he swears that he sees Dumbledore, would help with this scene, I think, a little bit.

Eric: Yeah, because Hermione - when they get down the steps, Hermione says, "Oh, did you see him? He looks just like..."

Andrew: Yeah, that's true.

Eric: Hey, the back of Hermione's head. They actually managed to do a sequel for [laughs] Hermione's - the back of her head. Her hair was braided in the reflection.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: [imitating Aberforth] "You bloody fools." [normal voice] He's lecturing them.

Andrew: He looks so much like Michael Gambon. I was really impressed by that...

Eric: That's the thing. He doesn't...

Andrew: ...because the real-life actor doesn't look like him...

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: all.

Eric: No, he doesn't.

Andrew: And they talk about that - I think there was a feature released on Harry Potter: The Quest, where Ciar┬Ěn Hinds talks about getting into that role and the amount of makeup, and how he was really impressed by how well they did, so...

Eric: Yeah, it's also one of the focus points on the Blu-ray. There is basically, I think, three prosthetics he says. It's - the forehead was the main thing but also the eyelids because Michael Gambon has the eyelids that are sort of heavier, very distinctive.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: Very distinctive.

Micah: Is Harry not hungry?

Eric: Yeah, I don't understand this.

Andrew: He's just angry.

Eric: Harry is a Horcrux. Even - he can't starve, he doesn't get hungry.

Micah: I like the...

Andrew: Well, I think what it's saying is he's in the middle of a mission right now. He doesn't want to stop to take a break.

Micah: I like...

Eric: Yeah, maybe.

Micah: ...the sarcasm here by Aberforth. "Nice job?"

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: "Easy?"

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, I like that line. I like that line a lot.

Micah: Now again, another deleted scene. I think it was the same dialogue but they were actually all at the table as opposed to...

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: ...standing up.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, there is one line about Ariana, I think, that they added that was - it's not in the final film but it's - again, pacing. Still, I think most of the backstory does really - I feel like it comes through. I mean...

Andrew: Mmm.

Eric: ...what's important that Aberforth has a beef with Albus, you know?

Andrew: Yeah, and that's definitely there but we know very little about Ariana.

Eric: Yeah. But I mean, even the books is vague about what exactly happened to Ariana. We just know that she was...

Andrew: Well - but we got that story. We got the story about the horsing around that was going on.

Eric: Yeah. And she was damaged, she was unable to control her power.

Andrew: Whenever I see - you can't see it right now, but whenever I see the Butterbeer on the table there, you could see it at the beginning of this scene, I think of the Wizarding World park.

Eric: It's true.

Andrew: I feel like it's a subtle reference to the Wizarding World...

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: ...because it looks exactly like it...

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: ...except for the mugs.

Eric: Well, what was it? I think - to be honest, I think they said that they had used one of the - when we did the theme park preview before it opened, Stuart Craig and them - we were told that they used the actual - the theme park Hog's Head - to design the Hog's Head in the film because...

Andrew: Oh, good.

Eric: ...obviously they designed the theme park before they had to shoot the last film, so there probably are some really close comparisons you could draw, even though we had been in the Hog's Head a couple of times before...

Micah: Yeah.

Eric: Movie 5.

Micah: I think you get good insight though into the relationship here when Aberforth says that Dumbledore - the other Dumbledore - sacrificed many things on his quest for power.

Eric: Yeah, it's one of those lines that really, really covers all the basis there. We just - it's a movie, we can't get the final story so I was happy with that line.

Micah: Yeah, I think it just really summed it up for those people who are kind of looking for that backstory on Dumbledore to be in the movie. I think that kind of made it very clear what kind of a past he has had.

Eric: He's got such a big portrait and such a little mirror next to it. Do you think he should just get a medium-sized portrait to have a little bit more space for a mirror? I mean, you got to groom yourself after all.

[Prolonged silence]

Eric: Never mind.

Andrew: What an analysis. Well, maybe he has a mirror somewhere else in the house. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, maybe. I don't know.

Entering Hogwarts Castle

Micah: This scene always got the biggest cheers, I thought, at least when we saw the movie in Orlando when Neville showed up.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: In the book, it's a cheer moment though. I mean, it's the scene where you put the book down and start clapping...

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: ...because really Neville is just [laughs] this badass figure all of a sudden and he's - I think in the books there's more of that too, where Neville just - in the movie he just talked about one of his cuts or something. In the book I think he goes quite on about that where he's, like, "Oh yeah, I got this here for doing this misdeed and got this over there, lasted for weeks, but I got her good." It's just kind of really, really badass. "Let's have a bit of fun, shall we?"

Andrew: I've said before, I've never really been a fan of Neville and this film is no different. I don't know why and I think it's almost the way that Jo wrote it. And I'm sorry, I know that upsets a lot of people but it's just, like, get out of the way. Who are you? [laughs]

Eric: What?

Andrew: I don't know. Maybe it's Matt Lewis. Something - I just can't get over it.

Eric: Now one thing I can't get over is the use of the original music in this scene. I hate it. I absolutely hate it.

Andrew: Oh, but it's like Harry has returned to Hogwarts just like his first time. It was just as exciting.

Eric: I understand why they picked it but the movie to me is completely different now. Everybody has grown up. There should have been - I mean, if you're talking about Alexandre Desplat and his score, which the filmmakers especially David Yates have been completely all about. I really don't think there's a whole lot of score in this film and - because a lot of it is the action. I understand it's just like an editor's job. If you can't see it, that means you've done a good job. But the fact that they've chosen that moment to do the original John Williams [imitates "Hedwig's Theme"] is just really kind of - for me, it just - it was a chance for this film to be different and instead it was trying to be the same.

Andrew: Hmm. I mean, I was hoping - and I think we all were hoping - to see some references to earlier films in this final film, the whole full circle thing, nice little...

Eric: But...

Andrew: ...references to past films. I think that was...

Eric: I'm cool with them playing the music, but it sounds like they were playing the exact same track. The difference...

Andrew: Yeah, I see what you mean.

Eric: If he were to re-record...

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: ...that and do it with slightly different instruments maybe but also have it be the same theme, that would be one thing. Instead it really does just feel like it's a scene from the second film.

Micah: But this was weird for me because Luna just all of a sudden is at Hogwarts when...

Eric: Is at Hogwarts.

Micah: ...before she was at Shell Cottage and without that scene in there that's part of the deleted features, it's just...

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: "Well, how did you get from Shell Cottage to..."

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: That's true.

Micah: "...Hogwarts?"

Eric: Yeah. I mean, I think the other thing that confuses too is in a couple of minutes when we see the rest of the Order is also in the castle, it's, like, where did they come from? But it's...

Micah: Well, you have that moment just when we were watching that scene where they go on the radio and they say, "Lightning has struck!" That's the alert to the Order to come to Hogwarts.

Eric: Yeah. I think George...

Andrew: Which is - I'm glad they included that because we don't get any of that in...

Eric: The actor George Harris who plays Kingsley Shacklebolt mentioned in one of the press conferences in Orlando that he really wanted to - or he thought it would be cool to be on the Potterwatch because Kingsley is, I think, one of the head leaders of Potterwatch when they're in the forest, isn't he? I forgot what they call him.

Andrew: Not sure.

Eric: But yeah, essentially I think they were talking about some of the scenes that were really cool moments for their characters.

[Prolonged silence]

Confrontation in the Great Hall

Eric: Gosh, Alan Rickman.

Andrew: He's not centered! [laughs]

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Under the...

Eric: Maybe in the...

Andrew: ...Great Hall glass.

Eric: You've got to watch the fullscreen version if they still do the letterbox.

Andrew: I just think about the poor first-years who are here and have to go through this nonsense. They have no idea about Harry really or - they're too young for this super dark stuff and Snape is yelling at these poor first-years.

Eric: Yeah. That's the interesting thing is that...

Andrew: That's not a film critic. It's just like a...

Eric: No. Yeah, general mood critic as well.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Because I mean, why would you send your kids to Hogwarts if it's the kind of situation where they're teaching the Unforgivable Curses on the first-years? Not that there are a whole lot of other options for schooling your children in Britain, in wizard school. But I just think that this is very much a place you wouldn't want to send anybody to. And we saw in previous films, previous books that parents were pulling their kids out of Hogwarts but that was due to something little like not trusting Dumbledore's judgment. Here you have got full-blown Death Eaters running the school.

Micah: Well, what do you think it would have been like though, just talking about the cast to actually be in this scene and seeing Alan Rickman doing what he's doing right now? You'd have to be pretty scared.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah. I mean, those kids probably weren't even acting, they were just legit scared.

Eric: [laughs] In "Maximum Movie Mode" of this film, David Yates just - they're focusing on this scene and David Yates is just going on and on about how Alan Rickman's delivery is really, really, really, really, really cool.

Andrew: In the test screening, that deleted scene where you see Harry join all the students before entering the Great Hall, that was in the test screening and I liked it because you knew kind of what was coming, whereas in this final version it was a shock, which on one hand is good for moviegoers but I kind of like knowing that Harry was in that group prior...

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Snape's speech.

Eric: Yeah, he has a costume change too where they're in the Room of Requirement and he's wearing his regular clothes, and now he has a robe over them.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: I think there was a scene on the staircase where they gave him somebody else's robes to wear.

Andrew: So, let's talk about this duel. J.K. Rowling said that in the script it was going to be Snape versus Harry, and then she saw it and she was, like, "Uh-uh, woman power!"

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: We need to go with what's in the book here and that's Snape versus McGonagall. Even though Harry is kind of involved in the duel. If McGonagall suddenly fell, Harry would have whipped out his wand and...

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: ...taken care of Snape, but I was glad...

Eric: Well, she said it was...

Andrew: ...that it was...

Eric: She said it was an early draft of the script, but yeah.

Micah: And even in the book, right, it's McGonagall, Slughorn and Flitwick, I think. I could be wrong there with one of them but it's the three of them who duel with Snape, and Snape bursts out one of the windows and flies away like a bat.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: If I recall, they're in a hallway though too. It's not...

Micah: Yeah, they're not in the Great Hall.

Eric: They're not in the Great Hall, far more condensed, far more actors - or sorry, professors - going against Snape but same deal. This is - now, many people don't like this, how Voldemort is essentially - as a character is introduced by the screaming of innocent young girls. It's so eerie but I also thought that this was not really something that was ever addressed by anybody. I never asked Yates about this or we never see them talk about how scary this is. Why do you think they intro-ed that? Do you guys like that or not?

Micah: I do.

Eric: Where they have the children screaming?

Micah: Well, not necessarily the children screaming but I think you get that brief moment of triumph where Snape is gone, but then all of a sudden it turns back to dark right away.

Andrew: Yeah, I didn't - the screaming scares me every time...

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: ...because it's so sudden and high-pitched, and not expected. But I liked it. I thought it was kind of unclear at first if it was just Harry who could hear it or everyone, but I guess the screams are supposed to indicate that everyone can sense it.

Eric: Do you think they're screaming - is it a pain because...

Andrew: Yeah, I would say so.

Eric: Because he's like in their head.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Or something like maybe the two people out of a hundred can't handle telepathy.

Andrew: [laughs] Exactly. No, I think that's right.

Micah: Here's a bit of a comic relief.

Eric: [laughs] "Students out of bed!" David Bradley, I'll tell you. At the Home Entertainment Celebration, he was such a genuine guy, such a generous kind of kind...

Micah: He's pretty good at karaoke from what I've heard too.

Eric: Yeah, yeah, I just - [laughs] I'm so happy that he's a part of this.

Micah: Now why does he call her "mom"? Is that a British thing?

Andrew: Yeah, I think that's a British - like ma'am.

Eric: I think the - also, isn't it - in one of the James Bond movies, they call M, Judi Dench, "mom". It's just - it's respect, it's like...

Andrew: It's like ma'am!

Eric: It's like saying ma'am. Well, it's like saying "mom" too in a way, I thought. But also like ma'am.

Andrew: I - this may seem obscure but I've always wondered - I want to know what went into designing Harry's battle wardrobe because he's wearing the same thing for, like, an hour, so...

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: ...I've always wondered, did they design it with flexibility in mind with...

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: What made them decide Harry needs to wear corduroy, a sport jacket and then a T-shirt underneath? I know that sounds weird but...

Eric: That's a lot of layers.

Andrew: ...this is the most iconic scene probably in the franchise, this entire hour and - did heavy thinking go into designing his battlements wardrobe, you know? I don't know.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: That's really interesting to me for some reason.

Eric: Heavy thinking - well, it's a Harry Potter film so heavy thinking went into everything. But I'm completely with you here. I mean, I never really thought about it but we're actually watching him wear three layers [laughs]...

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: ...for, like, an hour and a half. And he has to - obviously he had to shoot in that for months and months and months and months. Yeah, who knows, right? I mean, who is to say that - I mean, since when are stripes the symbol of leadership either, you know? I think Matt Lewis was talking about finally getting to wear stripes, you know? [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: And this is where Neville's a BAMF. But...

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#244 (November 20th, 2011): For the first time ever, MuggleCast has a DVD commentary! Watch Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part 2 on DVD with us. We'll comment on each and every scene - it's as if we're in your living room watching alongside you!

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