MuggleCast | The #1 Most-Listened to Harry Potter Podcast 3

MuggleCast 249 Transcript (continued)

Favorites: Person to Play in Harry Potter Film

Andrew: You're a news superstar. So in light of this news that we just mentioned earlier, Dan Radcliffe saying who he would like to play in a Potter film, another Potter film - or a remake I think was the exact question he got, I was wondering - and this leads into our Favorites segment - who you guys would all like to play in a Harry Potter film. I don't think we've ever really asked this question before. We've always - we've asked questions like, "What's our favorite character in a Harry Potter film or in a Harry Potter book?" but who would you actually want to play?

Mikey: Oh, I know this.

Andrew: Who, Mikey? Go ahead.

Mikey: Mad-Eye Moody.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: Ehhh.

Andrew: You would fit into that role. I was going to guess that or Hagrid.

Mikey: See, the thing is I would love to be Hagrid but I feel like Ben kind of has always had that, and...

[Eric and Mikey laugh]

Mikey: But I think it would be fun to be Hagrid because he's such a lovable character, but I think Mad-Eye Moody would be kind of fun because one, you can play the villain for like one movie and then you can - because you know, it's Mad-Eye Moody. Not really. And then you get to be the good guy the next movie. So I think it would be fun. Or Shacklebolt.

Andrew: I think I would like to play Severus Snape because - now, I would never be able to be Alan Rickman or be as good as Alan Rickman, but it seems like such a fun role to play, to be the bad but secretly good guy. And not too much work for filming, either. He's not a lead, so that would be pretty easy. So yeah, I would take the role of Snape if I had such an opportunity.

Mikey: [laughs] Micah?

Andrew: Micah and Eric?

Micah: I'd go with Lupin.

Andrew: Hmm. Why Lupin?

Micah: I just - I mean, I've always liked the character in the books. I thought there was a great role in Prisoner of Azkaban. He's kind of really the key to Harry's past, the first real insight he gets into Harry's past, and he's the one who really instills in him Defense Against the Dark Arts and sort of begins him on that path. I don't know, that's just my reasoning. I guess Aberforth would be the ideal choice, right? [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Considering past episodes of the show. But...

Mikey: Wow.

Micah: No, I'd definitely go with Lupin.

Eric: I was going to say Sirius, but I think I'm going to go with instead young Tom Riddle, like last couple of years of Hogwarts into first couple of years post Hogwarts, the transition into Lord Voldemort, that sort of thing because it's a very dark role but it's also very - I don't know, it just seems like it would be interesting. I think if they remade the films, one of the reasons for them to remake the films, is to spend a lot more time on the backstory and they could really make completely different movies if they focused on just different things than the first films did. So I think there would be more memories about Hepzibah Smith, about Merope Gaunt falling in love with Tom Riddle, and all that stuff. So I would vouch for that role.

Andrew: By the way, my second choice: Professor Trelawney.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Why don't you play both? You could give the prophecy and then...

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: ...hear the prophecy at the door and run to Dumbledore. That would be cool.

Main Discussion: Harry Potter At the Academy Awards

Andrew: Okay, so our main discussion today, as we mentioned a little bit earlier, is the Oscars. This is our last episode before the Academy Awards which are...

Micah: We'll all be there, right?

Andrew: ...February 26th. What?

Micah: Aren't we up for an award?

Andrew: MuggleCast?

Micah: Yeah.

Andrew: Ummm, yeah.

Eric: Best Commentary Track. [laughs]

Andrew: They're going to be on, what? ABC, I think, hosted by Billy Crystal. And we discussed the Potter nominations a few weeks ago. We had - they were announced January 24th which was basically a month before the awards themselves, and Potter got four technical nominations and I'll refresh your memory in case you forgot. They were - Deathly Hallows - Part 2 was nominated for Best Art Direction, Best Visual Effects, Best Makeup - oh no, three.

Mikey: Three.

Andrew: Not four. Okay, yeah. [laughs]

Mikey: That's why I'm like, "Wait, where's the fourth one? Maybe I missed it." [laughs]

Andrew: And Best Picture!

Mikey: Yay! Awww.

Andrew: Not Best Picture.

Mikey: Yeah.

Andrew: So we're not just going to talk about those three because we've talked about that before, but we have a few questions and the discussion is based on this e-mail from a reader, Hunter, 19, of Rock Spring, Georgia, and the subject line is "Why Deathly Hallows - Part 2 was ignored by the Oscars." He wrote:

"Hi MuggleCasters, with the release of this year's Oscar nominations I'm sure you all will be discussing how and why 'Harry Potter' was effectively ignored. As something of a film buff, I've so far been quite dissatisfied with the range of opinions that I've encouraged on MuggleNet in regards to this subject."

Micah: I think he meant "encountered."

Mikey: "Encountered." [laughs]

Andrew: "Encountered." What did I say?

Mikey: "Encouraged."

Micah: "Encouraged."

Andrew: Oh. I can't read today, apparently. I've screwed up three times already.

"Many fans seem to feel that 'Harry Potter' was robbed of recognition that it rightfully deserved. Personally I believe that a realistic approach is the best way to get to the bottom of this and that the aforementioned fans simply aren't being honest with themselves.

I'd argue that 'Deathly Hallows - Part 2' never really stood a chance to be nominated in any of the Oscar categories that fans were hoping it would be. It's unfair for people to keep comparing these films to 'Lord of the Rings' and saying, 'But, but 'Return of the King' won Best Picture!" because those films are the very definition of high fantasy and epic filmmaking. Hollywood had tried for decades to make 'Lord of the Rings' and many felt that it flat out couldn't be done. Don't get me wrong, I love the 'Harry Potter' films as much as the next guy, but there's no denying that the 'Potter' film series as a whole isn't as cohesive and meticulously executed as that of 'Lord of the Rings'. I believe I've gotten slightly off topic."

Eric: So do I.

Andrew: [continues]

"But still, all of these things are signs of quality that greatly effect a film's Oscar potential. For instance, one must ask themselves questions like: 'Was 'Deathly Hallows - Part 2' really the best film of the year? Really?' or, 'Just how long was Alan Rickman actually in the movie? Barring previous performances of Snape, was his presence in 'Hallows: Part 2' enough to leave an impact equivalent to that of, say, Heath Ledger's 2008 Oscar for Best Supporting Actor as Joker? How about to filmgoers who hadn't read the books?' Keeping that in mind, one might ask: 'Does this movie make any goddamn sense to somebody who's never picked up a 'Potter' book?!'

In short, yes, the 96% fresh rating that 'Deathly Hallows - Part 2' carries on Rotten Tomatoes does signify that critics found it to be a very good film, wonderful summer popcorn fare, and a fitting end to an always-above-average series. But it is not, and nor has 'Harry Potter' ever been, Oscar bait. To many of the die-hard fans like us though, 'Harry Potter' has been our childhood. The magic of these films and the world they brought to life is far greater than anything that an Oscar can possibly validate. And that is enough. :)"

[Mikey laughs]

Micah: Before we get into this - I mean, that's exactly what David Heyman said after the "snubs," was that the fan reaction was enough validation for him because that shows that the films were appreciated by the people that they care the most about, as nice as it would be of course to get an Oscar in some category.

Mikey: Yeah. As much as I would love to say, "Oh no, Harry Potter really deserved it and this is X, Y, and Z why," when you look at the nominations this year and when you look at the nominations of Harry Potter in the past - I have the Academy's website pulled up with all the nominations Harry Potter has received over all the films. The only one they didn't get a nomination in - let me just make sure I'm counting that right - is Chamber of Secrets - three, four five - and Order of the Phoenix. So there's two films they didn't get any nomination on. But if you look at the history of what films beat them out on - they were in Visual Effects one, two, three times including this year, and honestly, as much as I love the visual effects in Harry Potter Part 2, I don't think it's going to win this year, mainly because the films they're up against this year - even in Art Direction where I think it has a phenomenal art direction, but every year that they've been up they've lost against films that - honestly, Harry Potter since the first film, the art direction has been kind of set by that film, so it's not like a groundbreaking thing. In Visual Effects this year, they're against Hugo, Planet of the Apes - like, have any of you guys seen that? With...

Eric: Yeah.

Mikey: Yeah. You know who I'm talking about? It's just - oh my gosh. Malfoy. [laughs] What's his name? Tom.

Andrew: Tom Felton.

Mikey: Tom Felton! Geez. It's like stopping me. And even Transformers: Dark of the Moon, all those films visually, for Visual Effects - yes, Harry Potter has some great things this year, but nothing groundbreaking. I would say probably Goblet of Fire had more groundbreaking effects, just the reveal of Voldemort and no nose. That was huge visual effects-wise. But it's all been done. [laughs]

Andrew: Well, I know this doesn't apply to one film, but you can also argue that the Harry Potter films have been pretty groundbreaking on a whole, in that the success of them, how long the entire - I mean, the entire cast has stuck around with the entire thing. For that reason alone, I find it very groundbreaking.

Mikey: I'm not saying that they don't deserve some type of special achievement or something.

Andrew: Mhm.

Mikey: Because it is a phenomenal series, much more so than many other film series out there.

Eric: Well, how - I guess I have to ask, Mikey, too - and I wasn't going to think about talking about this, but the year that Lord of the Rings swept and had - was it eleven Academy Awards? I mean, those are the Oscars and Return of the King got them all that year.

Mikey: Well, here's the thing, is - I actually pulled up Return of the King and it's - let me find it real quick. But just to see what it was against...

Eric: Yeah.

Mikey: ...and what it earned...

Eric: That's what I'm asking, is...

Mikey: All right, so - actually no, that's not true. Return of the King won one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven. Eleven. You're right. Andrew, cut out my counting, okay? But - [laughs] all right, so Best Picture...

Eric: Why? [laughs] Your counting sounded fine. It was accurate.

Mikey: It was.

[Eric and Mikey laugh]

Mikey: I just wanted to make sure. All right, so Best Picture - and I actually saw every single film in Best Picture in 2003 when Return of the King won - it was Return of the King, Lost in Translation - don't get me wrong, I love Lost in Translation. It's sitting - actually, I see it on the shelf. It's this silver box right over there.

Eric: That's Sofia Coppola, right?

Mikey: Yeah. So - yeah, exactly. Master and Commander, that was interesting.

[Eric laughs]

Mikey: I wasn't a huge fan of it. I went to see it with my dad. Mystic River. I like Clint Eastwood but it wasn't - I personally thought as a picture as a whole, the epicness that was Return of the King totally bet out Mystic River. And Seabiscuit. I really enjoyed Seabiscuit. I live in Kentucky now. So it's one of those things where yes, I think it was great that it was nominated, but personally out of that series of films, Lord of the Rings: Return of the King was a much more epic, well-rounded Best Picture film. Does that - compare it. What do you guys think about that? Lord of the Rings versus what Harry Potter would be up to against this year. And really take Deathly Hallows - personally I feel Deathly Hallows - Part 2 - I never was on the show to kind of talk about it. I enjoyed it, I loved it, it was a great ending to the series, but it kind of felt like the third Pirates of the Caribbean where it was all action and kind of just - it was just the climax of the series. If Part 1 and 2 were one film, the epicness of that long film with all that stuff in it, I think it would have been beter. But the fact that they broke it up into two pieces, taking each individual piece...

Eric: You mean if it were one five-hour film?

Mikey: Yeah. Or even...

Andrew: That's an interesting take. But I mean, to answer your question about comparing it to the other films that are nominated this year, I haven't seen enough of these to give you a solid answer, but I think what you're saying about it being the climax lends to the fact that it does deserve a Best Picture because a Best Picture - story is obviously so important and for this film to wrap up this story, this seven-part story - eight-part story.

Mikey: But you're looking at an eight-part story. No, each picture for Best Picture has to be taken as an individual film.

Andrew: No, I know. That's what I'm saying. But I'm saying that Deathly Hallows - Part 2 is wrapping up this entire story.

Mikey: Mhm.

Andrew: And you do understand everything going into this film and coming out of it, at least I think.

Eric: I think our reader here...

Andrew: And I think...

Eric: ...would disagree, Hunter.

Andrew: Yeah, but then look at the reviews of the film. I mean, why did it get such good reviews?

Mikey: Because...

Andrew: Just because there was a lot of action?

Mikey: No, because it's Harry Potter!

Andrew: I mean, this isn't...

Mikey: It was a phenomenal film.

Andrew: But it hasn't been - it hasn't gotten this kind of review before.

Mikey: [sighs] It's...

Andrew: For a Potter film.

Mikey: I'll tell you this - I love Harry Potter. I don't want anyone to say, "Oh, Mikey doesn't like it." I really do.

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: I feel like I'm just going to get bashed for...

Andrew: No, we believe you.

Mikey: I feel like...

Andrew: We all know.

Eric: Mikey, he likes it.

Mikey: I do! I do like it! I got Fawkes tattooed on my leg. I'm a huge Harry Potter fan.

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: Yes. But it's one of those things where as a picture in whole - Best Picture? Honestly, I think The Help was probably one of my favorite films this year, even more so than Harry Potter because it's just a really heartfelt, touching story and the visuals were beautiful in it. Best Picture has a lot of things. It's not just story.

Eric: Okay, so let's - okay. So let's put Best Picture aside for a second.

Mikey: Okay. All right. Let's talk...

Eric: And let's talk about Best Supporting Actor for Severus Snape.

[Mikey sighs]

Eric: And Hunter - in his e-mail, Hunter writes: "Was Snape - barring the previous performances of Snape, was his presence in Hallows: Part 2 enough to leave an impact equivalent of Heath Ledger's award-winning Joker?" So...

Andrew: That's a good point.

Eric: That was what Hunter said and I actually wanted to bring up - one of the readers sent - one of the readers to MuggleNet sent in a long explanation for - following the Oscars snub, where he actually detailed - his name is Stuart, and he wrote in and he said that actually the "For Your Consideration" campaign that Warner Bros. launched promoted eight candidates for Best Supporting Actor that they wanted the Academy to take a look at for that role. So it was - they equally promoted - Warner Bros. apparently equally promoted Robbie Coltrane, Ralph Fiennes, Michael Gambon, John Hurt, Matthew Lewis, Gary Oldman, David Thewlis, and Alan Rickman. So I don't know exactly how this works, but essentially it means that - they didn't get fully behind Alan Rickman for Supporting Actor. They just threw this whole list of their best British actors at the Academy to review and then it was the Academy's job to kind of review, "Okay, does this actor qualify? This actor qualify?" for the Best Supporting Actor not to achieve the nomination. Now, I didn't know that. I thought this was great, some great insight. But it means that basically Warner Bros. is at least partially responsible for either confusing the Academy or just trying too hard and not really acting in its own best interests. Because if you're talking about - some of those actors, Robbie Coltrane, even Michael Gambon, in the film for thirty seconds, whereas Snape actually has a character arc in the film. And so Alan Rickman's performance should have been the focus there by Warner Bros. to get that nomination.

Micah: Yeah, I agree with that.

Mikey: No, I agree.

Micah: I was going to bring up what Stuart said, too, because it's interesting that the attention was not focused solely on one individual. Had it been focused on Alan Rickman, maybe there is a better chance that he would have been nominated in that field. But...

Mikey: I read somewhere recently and I can't find the article, it was nothing related to Harry Potter or anything, it was just how the Oscars are actually nominated, and how there's a laundry list of people and how they get it down to the actual nominations and what the rules are. I'm trying to find the article on it, but basically it's - I'm sure Snape was a character and Alan Rickman was on that list, just like Warner Bros. pushed him, but what happened was there's just not enough push behind that one character. And when you have Warner Bros. pushing for everybody, it's like they split their vote, kind of like the - what was it? The Teen Choice Awards when a bunch of actors were up and...

Andrew: Yeah, the trio - yeah, I was going to bring that up.

Mikey: ...all the Harry Potter actors were up for it.

Andrew: Mhm.

Mikey: And all four of them lost. Why? It's because they split the vote between...

Andrew: Right.

Mikey: ...who's your favorite Harry Potter actor?

[Andrew and Mikey laugh]

Mikey: Well, guess what? The person who was not a Harry Potter actor won! Why? Because all her fans voted for her. So it's one of those things where it's as much politics for some of this stuff as it is when you look at it. But for the most part - no system is ever perfect, and yes, Best Supporting Actor, Snape's story arc in the book was phenomenal and in the movie, it came out really, really well. But it wasn't - I don't feel it was enough to be a Best Supporting - because he didn't have enough screen time to be that character. And I think it showed with Warner Bros. pushing so many characters or so many actors as Supporting Actors...

Micah: And it's almost like they were grasping at straws.

Mikey: Yeah, they were grasping because - look at it. Why would you do Michael Gambon as Supporting Actor in this film?

Eric: Yeah.

Mikey: Why?

Eric: No, it doesn't make any sense.

Mikey: It doesn't make sense.

Micah: He's got one scene. Yeah, exactly.

Mikey: But that...

Eric: It doesn't make any sense. Yeah, I think they shot themselves in the foot a little bit with that.

Micah: Or two scenes.

Mikey: Yeah, and it's not - it's just...

Andrew: Could it be that they - it's another thing to consider that these people who are nominating actors have to pick only one. So you have to consider, are all these people who are in the industry - do they look at Harry Potter and say, "That is my favorite film so I have to nominate this year Harry Potter in these various categories." I mean, that could have hurt it, too, because if the nominations work where the voters only get to select one in each category - I mean, they have to pick Potter as number one? That's very difficult to do.

Micah: Well - but the thing is it was the most popular film of 2011, it was the most successful film of 2011. Is it that hard to say that it should have been nominated? I mean, this goes to my question, are the people who are in charge of the nomination process out of touch with the public? Because this is the highest grossing film franchise of all time. Clearly, the people who are going to see the films and the people who are nominating the films have a very vast difference of opinion on what's a good film.

Eric: Well, it's like Avatar was nominated for Best Picture, right? Last year, wasn't it? And it lost to The Hurt Locker. Was this last year or the year before?

Mikey: It was nominated - let me find it real quick.

Eric: Yeah. But...

Micah: I think it was two years ago, but I could be wrong.

Eric: The same thing is that Avatar was the highest grossing film - or grossed millions and trillions of dollars, this huge successful film, and it got nominated for Best Picture. The story was not original. The story was very bland.

Mikey: Yeah.

Eric: The effects were great.

Mikey: Now...

Eric: The effects were great.

Mikey: Now, on Avatar - again, they look at a lot of things for Best Picture. Even - and again, you got to remember, it's not just story is what they're doing. They look at everything. And Avatar more so than this Harry Potter did have some amazing, groundbreaking things in it.

Eric: I do agree with you there.

Mikey: Mainly the 3D. And a perfect example - if everyone wants to go back to Lord of the Rings or even Avatar in the groundbreaking-ness, look at the new Hobbit stuff that's coming out. I can tell you the technology that's going behind it - Peter Jackson bought a ridiculous amount of Red Digital Cinema Cameras and it's so - he's shooting at a faster frame rate than what Hollywood does now, he's shooting in pure 3D which a lot of the films that are in 3D are just post-conversion. Like, he is doing something in Hobbit that has not been done before. Avatar is the closest thing to it, but he's going so far beyond what Avatar did. Like, I can tell you, Hobbit is going to win Visual Effects award for the Oscars when it comes out.

Eric: Well - so that's the thing, is that Potter did get nominated but all for technical awards.

Mikey: Yeah, and Best Picture...

Eric: But when it comes to things like Best Picture, Best Supporting Actor - when it comes to any of the meat and potatoes of the films...

Andrew: The story. [laughs]

Eric: ...Harry Potter got snubbed.

[Mikey sighs]

Eric: But why?

Micah: Let's talk about that for a minute.

Andrew: And - yeah.

Micah: Because...

Andrew: Arguably, it has to do with the story, and I think that - this is another question I want to raise: Are book-to-film adaptations kind of just cursed in this regard?

Mikey: No.

Andrew: I mean, there have been some, but - and I'm talking book-to-film adaptations and also this kind of - these fan bases that come with it.

Mikey: We've been talking about Lord of the Rings! Come on!

Andrew: No, but if you look at Harry Potter - I mean, a lot of people say, "Oh, Harry Potter is probably a little too mainstream. The critics tend to ignore it. They just see it as, 'Oh, people love it just because people love it.'"

Eric: Well, Deathly Hallows too, was the film where everybody came together, even critics, and said that was good.

Mikey: Yeah.

Eric: So there's that. But the other thing I would argue is that there are actually a ton of - I mean, nothing really is original, like truly, truly original. No movie now that hits theaters isn't based on a book...

Mikey: Yeah.

Eric: ...or another work, and that truth is scary.

Andrew: I mean, that's...

Eric: Because it's...

Andrew: I wouldn't say almost all of them. That's a little bit of a stretch.

Eric: It's very difficult - I really would like if you could name some. I mean, it's...

Andrew: Well, I would just - come to mind, like Pixar films. Like, those are all...

Eric: They only make one of those every couple of years, right?

Andrew: Yeah, I know, but it's still not...

Eric: Well, Pixar has got the billions of dollars to make it happen, but - in other words - I think that the studios - it's very hard to get a film green-lit these days, that is original as opposed to based off - like Water for Elephants.

Andrew: Mhm.

Eric: Based off of a book with a built-in audience attached to it. It just seems like...

Andrew: And people know it can work.

Mikey: Yeah, and...

Eric: Well - and I really liked the Water for Elephants film.

Micah: I just want to say this, though.

Mikey: Mhm?

Micah: You're talking about taking the most successful book series of our time and turning it into the most successful film franchise of all time, so how do you not award David Heyman who has been there from the beginning as a producer? How do you not award David Barron who has been there from the beginning as a producer? How do you not award Steve Kloves who has done all films except Order of the Phoenix? That's what bothers me.

Eric: Well, is the BAFTA enough then? That the British...

Micah: Well, maybe.

Eric: ...Film Institution saying Lifetime Contribution Film...

Micah: But the fact that they're not even recognized - I mean, how many times, Mikey, when they were nominated was it for - is there a Best Producer? Aside from Best Director. I don't know if that's an actual award. But...

Mikey: They do Special Achievement awards. Here's the thing, is - I don't want to get into it because...

Micah: I was going to say, was Steve Kloves ever nominated for an award for his screenplay?

Mikey: Yeah, give me a second. I'll look it up.

Micah: Sorry, I didn't mean - I just - I mean, that's what I look at because those are people who have been there - aside from the actors. If you're going to say the acting wasn't great throughout with the exception of Alan Rickman in the final film, okay, we can have that debate. But these guys have been there since the very inception of the film, and it brought it to life over ten years. How do you not acknowledge that?

Mikey: Yeah, and...

Eric: Well, the Oscars are year to year. I mean, that's the thing about the Oscars. And I think...

Micah: Well then give them an achievement award. I mean, you give them something that recognizes the work that they've done.

Mikey: And that's what I've been saying, is as an individual one - right now, I have like forty tabs open with everything so I don't want to misquote any facts or anything. But really, if you look back at what Harry Potter has had nomination-wise - and again, you have to look at it as an individual film - when you look at it, they've gone up against films that were really, at their time - actually, I felt a little bit better. A perfect example is for cinematography in 2009, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. You know what it lost to? Avatar. Like, how can it compare to that?

[Micah laughs]

Mikey: Like, seriously, look at what James Cameron did with that film.

Eric: Yeah. And it was a lot more colorful that the sixth Harry Potter movie.

Mikey: Yeah, and that's just one example. When you look at Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, which is arguably one of my favorite Potter films still. I thought it was wonderfully shot, it was big and epic, it was the Triwizard Tournament. All these great things. It lost to Memoirs of a Geisha, again which was - that's in art direction. That was very specific things. So a lot of times...

Eric: Also based on a book. [laughs]

Mikey: Yeah, I know. When you look at Deathly Hallows - Part 1 for Visual Effects, what did it lose to? Inception. Yes, it was a phenomenal film in the sense of effects, but have you seen Inception? [laughs] The stuff - like, I know you guys have. So it's one of those things where it's been put against some really good films. And when you look at what it's up against this year - like, I really want to bring it back to what it's up against this year. A perfect example is Makeup, that it's up against. It's up against two other films - and I will admit, I haven't seen it. But honestly, looking at what the films are doing with a little research - it's up against Albert Nobbs and The Iron Lady. Well, The Iron Lady is - what's her name? Meryl Streep.

Andrew: Meryl Streep.

Mikey: As Margaret Thatcher. I haven't got a chance to see it, so I can't say anything on that part. But Albert Nobbs is Glenn Close playing...

Andrew: A dude!

Mikey: Passing as a dude! And you know who else won an Oscar for that? Mrs. Doubtfire. Mrs. Doubtfire...

Andrew: Uh-oh.

Mikey: ...when Robin Williams played a woman. Okay? So honestly, for Makeup, is Harry Potter going to beat that? It's been up against really good films in these categories.

Andrew: Are you saying Glenn Close as a man is more shocking or unbelievable than Warwick Davis as a goblin?

Eric: [gasps] Oh snap!

Mikey: I'm not saying unbelievable.

Eric: Oh snap!

Mikey: I'm saying...

Andrew: Here's the thing, though. I mean, how could you put down - and I'm not disagreeing with you, Mikey. But I'm saying, how could these people not vote for Harry Potter when you look at the entire film? There's extreme amounts of great makeup work.

Mikey: No, no, I agree with you. And it's just one of those things where I think it has - like I said, it's a lot of politics, too. It's...

Andrew: And - yeah.

Mikey: And it's...

Andrew: And I think the question is: Is makeup adding to the story? That's important as well.

Mikey: Yeah, and I think - and you've got to remember - again, I've never seen the other films so I can't say how well it adds to the story or - but again, the whole thing evolves around makeup changing the character. So it's one of those things where I will say I think Harry Potter has done some phenomenal stuff and I think it should receive some type of special award for being this franchise, by actually making all the films. That's a huge achievement and I have [laughs] every single one of the movies myself. It's one of those things where it's definitely done a lot. But when it comes to Oscars, it's been up against some really good stuff and it's hard to say that it got snubbed. It's just bad luck, you know? It really is.

Andrew: Are the Academy voters - now, I know Mikey's answer to this, so Micah, I ask you: Are the Academy voters out of touch with the public and what moviegoers are actually going to see?

Micah: Yeah. I mean, I brought this up a little bit before. I think that they are, but I think I also have a slight bias towards the Potter films and I think that they deserve to be recognized in some capacity. But I just don't understand how - again, we talked about the fact that Potter was the most successful film of 2011. It has been nominated for three Oscars, so okay. I mean, is that just do, though? I mean, is that enough? And knowing that there's probably not a good chance of them winning any of those three - Mikey just pointed out the facts of what they're up against. And I don't know, I just think that - but it's hard because what would have happened - and let's say Alan Rickman gets nominated for Best Supporting Actor. Let's say Deathly Hallows - Part 2 is nominated for Best Picture. Would that have been enough, even if they didn't win? I mean, it's almost like you have to take a look at the entire series and that's why I really feel that an award acknowledging the series as a whole would be more fitting.

Mikey: I agree with you. An award nominating - showing the whole series. Sadly, there's not an award for Best Series.

Eric: Or Best Eight-Film Saga.

Mikey: You got...

Eric: Because how many - what would be the competition then?

[Andrew laughs]

Mikey: Star Wars.

Andrew: James Bond.

Mikey: Star Wars.

Andrew: [laughs] Or Star Wars.

Eric: No, not eight films. I'm saying eight films. Star Wars is only six, and if you count the special editions it's nine. So the award would have to be - or ten now.

Mikey: Before we got Clone Wars.

Eric: That was not released in theaters, was it?

Mikey: Yes, it was! I went to see it! I dressed up!

Eric: Oh, I forgot about that. Okay. And then...

Mikey: And Episode 1 in 3D, that's a different film!

Eric: Yes. Have you seen it yet?

Andrew: Mikey, you play...

Mikey: You want to go up against me with Star Wars?

Eric: Have you seen it yet?

Andrew: No, we don't need to get into this.

[Mikey laughs]

Andrew: Nobody needs to hear this.

Eric: Have you seen Episode 1 in 3D yet, Mikey?

Mikey: I'm actually going on Tuesday. Anyone in...

Eric: Oh, guess what? Guess what? I was there Thursday at midnight. Thank you so much.

Mikey: All right.

Andrew: Sounds like Eric is a bigger fan.

Mikey: You know, Eric? I was out of town on Thursday. I was working, okay?

Eric: Okay, that's fine. That's fine.

Mikey: I'm sorry.

Eric: I don't need to know what you're doing. I'm sorry.

Andrew: Well, the good news is that Star Wars plays everywhere, Mikey, not just in your town.

Mikey: I know.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Mikey: Actually, no, no. Where I was at in Kentucky on Thursday night, it was not playing.

Andrew: I'm just messing with you.

Mikey: So I was at a small - like I said, I was only on the eastern side of Kentucky, really small area. So, okay.

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#244 (November 20th, 2011): For the first time ever, MuggleCast has a DVD commentary! Watch Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part 2 on DVD with us. We'll comment on each and every scene - it's as if we're in your living room watching alongside you!

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