Main Discussion - The Last Character Discussion

Andrew: Yeah. [groans] But anyway. So, moving on to the main discussion of this week, this is kind of sad because this is our final main character discussion. Where we go in-depth on a specific Harry Potter character...

Ben: Awww.

Andrew: ...within the series. We’ve done a - how many characters have we done?

Laura: We’ve been doing it since like Episode 11.

Kevin: Have we? That long?

Andrew: That’s it? [laughs]

Laura: I think so.

Kevin: I thought it was shorter than that.

Micah: Yeah, I don’t even think we did Harry Potter.

Andrew: I thought it was since Episode 7 or 9.

Laura: No.

Kevin: No, it’s not.

Andrew: What did we talk about? Yeah, we didn’t do Harry Potter. There’s always room. We’ll continue it after chapter-by-chapter.

Micah: He gets talked about by everyone else, so we don’t need to do him.

Andrew: Mhm, exactly. Yeah, he always gets in somehow. After chapter-by-chapter, which will take, oh god, at least 20 shows.

Kevin: Well let’s count up the...

Andrew: More than 20 shows, more like 50.

Kevin: Let's count up the chapters.

Andrew: Don’t quote me on it, I think there’s 160 chapters, something like that. 160.

Main Discussion - Sibyll Trelawney

Andrew: All right, so our main character discussion this week and the final one until Episode 4000, is Professor Trelawney. A good way to end it off because she’s not that huge of a character, but she...

Kevin: Yeah, she is.

Andrew: ...she's pretty important in the series.

Kevin: A little vital.

Andrew: She's done...

Laura: Only a little.

Andrew: Well she’s... Yeah.

Laura: It’s not like she has anything to do with anything important.

Kevin: Nothing.

Micah: No.

Ben: Don’t be lame, Laura. Don’t be lame.

Andrew: It’s not like she created a prophecy or spoke of one.

Ben: Okay, enough. Enough.

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: Andrew, give me some general information about Trelawney. Please! Please, Andrew!

Andrew: Ben, if you insist. So, Sybill Patricia Trelawney: extremely thin, wears large glasses that magnify her eyes, usually draped in a large number of spangled shawls, beads, chains, bangles — What the heck are bangles? — and rings. She’s a pureblood and she’s the great-great-granddaughter of the celebrated seer Cassandra Trelawney — who, uh, one of the questions that we have ready, uh, is related to — right, Micah?

Micah: Yep.

Andrew: Care to start us off?

Sibyl vs. Sibyll

Micah: Sure. So the Sibyls in Roman mythology were a group of seers. And what some people have done with this is in particular in the Aeneid, there’s a Sibyl who meets Aeneas before he goes to his journey in the Underworld and she is responsible for guiding him through the Underworld to meet his father. And a lot of people have said, "Well, can something similar happen with Harry in the Final Book?" You know, can Trelawney sort of guide him, maybe not necessarily talking about going through the Veil or anything like that, but is she going to be responsible for guiding him on his journey in Book 7?

Kevin: I hope not.

Ben: I don’t think so.

Kevin: She’s a pretty dull character in my book.

Ben: I think that... Okay, even though J.K. Rowling uses a lot of references to mythology and all of that, I don’t think that she’d choose a mythological ending necessarily, though.

Kevin: Yeah, same here. I don’t see that happening.

Ben: Because, she uses things and she gets ideas and borrows ideas from it, but I don’t think she’d actually wind up using, like, inclusion from one of those stories.

Laura: Yeah. And if you think about it, she’s already sort of filled that purpose because she’s not directly leading Harry through the series, but she’s sort of provided, the, you know, the...

Kevin: Catalyst.

Laura: Yeah, thank you, Kevin.

Micah: Yeah, I agree with Ben. I think it’s just used because of the name itself has some connection to prophesizing and things like that. So, I don't know. To go any deeper would probably be the wrong way to go, especially since Trelawney is such a whacked-out character.

Andrew: Yeah. That, and I think people kind of blow it out of proportion because there’s so many people who are into mythology who read these books because they’re really into the whole literary analyzation and all of that. I just think people take it a little too far.

Laura: I — I agree with that because I like mythology but I’m not going to sit here and say that, you know, the entire Harry Potter series is determined by what happened with their mythological equals, you know?

Andrew: Mhm.

Kevin: I think it would be very disappointing too.

Laura: Yeah. It’s like, if you want to know what happens to Harry at the end...

Kevin: Just read The Odyssey!

Laura: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Go read The Odyssey! [laughs]

Kevin: Not to mention mythology tends to relate to everything because that’s the whole point of mythology. It was, you know, mythology used to be considered a religion, whatever was myth, or is myth now was a religion then, you know? And it was a code of ethics, and it had to relate to something, so you would assume it would relate to daily life.

Trelawney: Fake Seer?

Micah: So, we’ve seen her throughout the series make two prophecies. But, she doesn’t seem to be able to be good any other time. So, is she a real seer? Or does she just predict things when she’s not trying to?

Kevin: Well, she’s obviously a real seer.

Ben: Agreed.

Laura: Mhm.

Kevin: She just doesn’t have the gift constantly. I don’t think...I think that in the series, people have the misconception that seers can just walk around and just suddenly go into a trance and, you know, predict the future.

Ben: Right.

Kevin: Because I think...

Ben: Sorry, Kevin, go ahead.

Kevin: ...I think it’s more of a random thing.

Ben: Right. Like Kevin was saying, I think it's not really that she can do it when she wants to. It’s when she has something true to predict about the future then she will, but other times...

Laura: Yeah, but it's also, she kind of feels the pressure of people around her expecting her to be able to, you know, go around and just tell the future at the drop of a hat and so she makes stuff up.

Kevin: And not to mention, the one - one of the main prophecies she created is secret, you know? So, no one knows about — maybe some people know, but not the general public, you know? The general public doesn’t know that she actually created THE prophecy that, you know, dictates how Harry is going to defeat Voldemort or Voldemort will defeat Harry.

Micah: Right, well, she doesn’t even know that she created the prophecy.

Kevin: Exactly. So it’s sort of, like, you know, it’s sort of somewhat sad because she’s trying to live up to her, you know, relative’s name and she already has without realizing it.

The Prophecy: The Easy Way Out?

Micah: So, this is actually something we haven’t talked about very much on the show, but it’s obviously the whole kind of, I don‘t know, backbone of the series, the prophecy. Do you guys think that Jo took the easy way out or is there still more to this prophecy that we don’t know?

Andrew: I don’t understand what you mean by "easy way out."

Micah: Well, I think people were expecting more out of it, and it turned out to be just as it was written.

Andrew: Well, she got cut off.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Well, she didn’t get cut off, but the guy who overheard it...

Laura: Snape.

Andrew: ...was, uh, thrown out a window or something?

Laura: Yeah, Snape was thrown out.

Kevin: No, I think he’s referring to the overall prophecy, the one that Dumbledore showed Harry.

Andrew: Oh. Which one? Is that it, Micah?

Micah: Yeah.

Kevin: Yes, because people were expecting that... The wording of the prophecy seemed as though it could be taken multiple ways and people were - I’m assuming Micah is referring to the fact that J.K. Rowling probably, it hasn’t truly been confirmed yet, probably, you know, she went with a base meaning of the prophecy, the one that was the obvious choice of meanings and not the alternate choice, if you know what I mean.

Andrew: Well, that’s sort of like the whole - well, that's not really a good example.

Kevin: Well, at the same time we haven’t had confirmation that she has. So, I mean people may think that she took the "easy way out," as they call it, but we don’t have any confirmation of that.

Laura: I just don’t get why people are calling it "the easy way out."

Kevin: I know! She created the prophecy!

Laura: I thought it was a pretty straight-forward thing and it was about time we figured out what Harry needed to do, you know? It would have - I think it would have been a little late to introduce that in the sixth book. So, maybe people were expecting a little more since she did it in the fifth book, but I thought it was fine.

Micah: Yeah, I mean..

Andrew: Well, Micah, didn’t you just say that it was open so that people could take it different ways?

Micah: Yeah, that’s what I was going to say is that maybe that’s the creative part of it - that it’s open to interpretation and the whole reason that... Go ahead.

Andrew: That’s true. That’s Jo’s style isn’t it? To leave things open? To leave things a mystery? So, I don’t really think it’s...

Micah: Well, yeah.

Andrew: So, I really don’t think it’s that much of a surprise.

Micah: Yeah, but she sort of took it and opened it to interpretation in the book itself, do you know what I mean? Like, if it hadn’t been heard the way that it was heard and the actions that were taken weren’t taken, then we’d be on a totally different path. I mean, maybe just the big thing about the prophecy was that it could have been interpreted a different way and it wasn’t. I didn’t have a problem with it. I’m just saying when you read editorials and things like that and people’s response to that book in particular, it seemed like they were upset that there wasn’t more to the prophecy. You know? Some huge twist.

Andrew: Maybe it’s just people going out of spite that, "Oh gee, I put so much thought into it and then it’s as simple as that? What the heck?"

Laura: I don’t know. I thought there was a pretty big twist in the fact that the prophecy didn’t have to come true.

Micah: Yeah, that's why I'm saying.

Laura: We found out that it was all about choice...

Kevin: Yeah that’s true.

Laura: ...and if Voldemort would just say, if he would just say, you know, "I don’t want to do this," then nothing would have happened. I thought that was a pretty big twist.

Micah: Right.

Kevin: Yeah, but I think they were expecting something like Neville is the actual person and...

Laura: You know, people still think that.

Kevin: I know.

Laura: And I’m like, "What would be the point of writing this series about Harry if in the end..."

Kevin: If it turns out to be Neville.

Laura: [laughs] I know! It’s like Harry just gets to sit back and do nothing in the seventh book.

Kevin: I mean, yeah, I still maintain that I think Neville is going to play a part, but...

Laura: Oh, I do too. Yeah, no doubt.

Kevin: But I don’t think he’s going to play a huge part. Or, you know, maybe a huge part, but not the Harry Potter part.

Prophecy Recall

Micah: We sort of touched on this a little bit before when we said that she didn’t remember the prophecy, but do you think anything would be different if she did?

Kevin: Absolutely.

Micah: What do you think would be different?

Ben: Because what would happen is, she’d be captured by Voldemort and Voldemort would try to extract the memory from her.

Kevin: Well, I think that’s, well, I think that’s one of the reasons why. I think that even though she doesn’t remember it, she still has some of it in her mind, and I think that’s why Dumbledore keeps her there and protects her. But, I think it would be different in the sense that she wouldn’t... Maybe not the book be different, but maybe the character itself would be significantly different in the sense that she doesn't have to prove herself, you know what I mean?

Micah: And she'd also be aware of what she's responsible for.

Kevin: Exactly.

Micah: So, she is at risk and that's why she's at Hogwarts. I don't think any of us disagree with that.

Kevin: Right.

Laura: No, I think that's, that makes perfect sense.

The Hog's Head

Micah: Okay, so going back to the prophecy for a minute. The whole mystery that sort of exists surrounding the night at the Hog's Head...we know that Trelawney said that it was a cheap place for her to stay, and let's not go into that...

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: [laughs] ...but, why does Dumbledore use the Hog's Head for the interview? You know, is it...?

Ben: I don't know if there's really a reason behind it.

Micah: Is it because we think his brother is the bartender?

Andrew: Well, wouldn't it be just because Trelawney is already there in the first place?

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: That too.

Andrew: And it's just at her convenience that she's already there. I mean, in another sense, if you are all in depth you can think well, maybe Dumbledore was there so it wasn't like a - it was just an average, typical location it wouldn't have been out of place or, nobody would have thought anything of it.

Laura: Well, we also know that the Hog's Head is kind of a shady place now, but maybe it wasn't then. Maybe it was an okay place to go, you know. Obviously, if Dumbledore turned up in there now, people might kind of you know, turn their heads, but...

Ben: Well, especially since he's supposed to be dead, but...

Laura: Well, yeah. You know what I mean...

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: I knew that was coming. Okay, no...

Andrew: Heads would definitely turn.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: No, but say it was like the Three Broomsticks then, you know. No one would think, you know, anything of him showing up there.

Micah: Right.

Ben: And what's - now, are we sure that Dumbledore chose the location?

Micah: No, I mean...

Laura: We don't know.

Ben: Because she - I mean, she's a pretty strange person. She could've...

Micah: Yeah, she was staying there. That was the whole point.

Kevin: Oh, so...

Micah: And it's not like Dumbledore - he didn't know that the prophecy was coming, he was just interviewing her for the job.

Kevin: Exactly, yeah.

Laura: Mhm.

Kevin: If he had known that I think he would've brought her to a little more secure location. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah.

Divination

Micah: Throughout the series it seems like the whole idea of divination and prophecy just isn't a respected subject and, you know, what is she saying, Jo in particular, about this subject? I mean, Hermione doesn't like it, she's smart. McGonagall doesn't like it, she's smart. Why does this subject just get absolutely no credibility whatsoever?

Laura: I don't think it gets credibility from the more logical characters.

Ben: Because it's such an unpredictable branch of magic...

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: ...like McGonagall said. Where... You know, you're predicting the future, and it's, you know it's sort of like - hate to draw a comparison - sort of like art class in high school, choir in high school...

Andrew: Oh no.

[Kevin laughs]

Ben: I mean, a lot of people take it but it's not, you don't really, it's hard to find someone who's really, actually gifted at it.

Andrew: Oh, that's not true. [laughs] If you're taking that class, that means you're into it, especially in high school.

Ben: I disagree.

[Laura laughs]

Ben: Some kids get shoved into that class.

Laura: That depends, we had no choice.

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: I got stuck in art for three years.

Andrew: Well, oh okay. At my school, it's not required.

Kevin: Sometimes, it might be the better of the two evils, you know?

Andrew: [laughs] I was thinking it wasn't required. I thought it was just an elective.

Laura: Well, I think there's a lot to be said for the fact that it's very unpredictable and, you know, despite what Hermione says, I'm sure that there's some resentment there that there is a subject she can't do.

Andrew: I think it's sneezed upon in Hogwarts because it's taught by Trelawney and she's always making these false predictions and so everyone's like, "What a joke!" [laughs] This class is a joke.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: And Hermione dropped out of it, so obviously she's ticked off by the teacher and she probably doesn't like the class. I don't really think it's because she couldn't do it, I think it's because she couldn't - was it because she couldn't stand the teacher? I thought that was like the...

Kevin: Yeah, I think it was, yeah.

Laura: Well she didn't like her, but at the same time Hermione could never have any type of vision in the crystal balls or anything. Like it always...

Kevin: Yeah but, if you notice, it's not so much that she couldn't see things, it's because she didn't believe in it, so she was sort of stopped by herself.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: And at the same time, Trelawney would sit there and tell her, you know, you're not gifted at this subject, basically insulting her and you know, yeah it's probably true to an extent and I think that kind of hit home for her - definitely touched a nerve.

Kevin: Yeah but I don't think she resents the subject though.

Laura: I think she resents it because of Trelawney. Like, I don't think that she hates seers, but when she thinks about transfigura - not transfiguration, excuse me - when she thinks about that subject at Hogwarts and she sort of thinks about it along the lines of Trelawney's teaching it, she doesn't like Trelawney, therefore she doesn't like the subject.

Kevin: Yeah, that's true.

A Bottle Of Sherry

Micah: In Half-Blood Prince, Trelawney is, you know, she's hitting the bottle a little bit.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: She is. She is wandering around with that bottle of sherry and, do you guys think that maybe she saw something that we don't know about--maybe she had one of her visions perhaps, that would bring that on? Or is it just the whole kind of stress of what's been going on over all?

Kevin: I think it's just the stress.

Andrew and Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: That's what I first thought.

Laura: Well, I noticed that she wasn't the only one drinking a lot. There was a lot more alcohol consumption in that book than there have been in any of the other books.

Andrew: [laughs] Was there? I don't remember that.

Laura: Yeah there was. Anytime it talked about a teacher or an adult, they were always drinking something alcoholic and I think it just goes to show that times are getting hard, people are getting stressed out, people are scared.

Ben: Yeah, that is a really good point, Laura.

[Ben and Andrew laugh]

Andrew: That's so funny.

Laura: Well, it's true. [laughs]

Andrew: Harry Potter finally is cool with teenagers.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Now we see why Jo wrote it in. Who are we kidding? It's for all of these teenagers...they can relate now. [laughs] I'm not encouraging anything. I'm not suggesting anything.

Firenze vs. Trelawney

Micah: Following Book 5, we see Firenze also come in and start teaching Divination. And we know that the Centaurs have a different type of way that they go about making prophecies versus the way Trelawney does. What do you guys think? Is one of them more accurate than the other?

Ben: Well, certainly Firenze would be because he's a Centaur and they are gifted at that. And, he's probably more accurate more of the time than Trelawney is. Trelawney is sort of - she's a bit shaky, you know? Every once and a while, she'll pop up with an actual prophecy but, Firenze, he's not telling us as much as he knows, of course, but I think he knows quite a bit. More than Trelawney, at least. Anyone disagree?

Laura: No, I don't disagree at all, in fact, I think that's kind of a disadvantage that the characters have - that the Centaurs won't tell them what they know.

Ben: Mars is awful bright tonight.

[Everyone laughs]

Trelawney's Future Role

Micah: We kind of debunked the whole idea of Trelawney helping Harry out in Book 7. Is she going to play any role or is she done now?

Andrew: So, wouldn't she make for a good character to be killed off by now?

Laura: Well, she might, but I personally am not going to cry if she dies. [laughs]

Kevin: [laughs] No.

Andrew: Well, yeah. I don't know, I just picture this mass murder happening in Book 7.

Laura: Well, I think it's definitely true that she needs protection.

Andrew: Like Voldemort has a hit list.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: Yeah.

Laura: That's why Dumbledore didn't want her to leave Hogwarts whenever Umbridge was trying to kick her out.

Ben: Guys, we have to stop talking about Book 7. It's just getting me so depressed.

Andrew: Why? Because it's the end?

Laura: Because it's almost over! [laughs] It's going to suck.

Andrew: I don't know how you people can think that when it's over a year away still. [laughs]

Kevin: Yeah I know. But that's...I'm looking forward to it.

Laura: Okay, come on. It's coming...

Andrew: God only knows what going to happen.

Laura: It's coming up on a year since Half-Blood Prince came out. I mean, time just flies, it's so sad.

Andrew: Yeah.

Kevin: We're going to have to plan something for that too.

Andrew: Rumor has it that Jo is going to invite everyone to her house. This big fiesta party.

Laura: Awesome.

Micah: Nice.

Kevin: Awesome.

Ben: I don't know if that's true or not. I think Andrew just...

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: Yeah, we're going to podcast from her living room.

Andrew: Yeah. Could you imagine Eric in the presence of J.K. Rowling?

Kevin: Oh, geez.

Andrew: I can't.

Kevin: I don't think he'd be able to talk.

Andrew: He would put on such an act. He would put on such an act.

Kevin: No, he would see her and then just drop to the floor...

[Andrew laughs]

Kevin: ...and just...

Laura: That's what I would do. I would faint. [laughs] It's really sad.

Emma Thompson

Micah: All right, so wrapping it up, Emma Thompson as Professor Trelawney. What do you guys think of her, so far?

Ben: Actually...

Kevin: I think she is pretty good.

Ben: Coincidentally, she was on David Letterman the other night, but regardless of that...

Andrew: Re-run or?

Ben: It was a re-run, yeah. But...

Andrew: What was she promoting?

Ben: I don't know, but she looked a lot different than what I saw in the movie. It was really weird.

Andrew: Of course.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: I hear Ralph Fiennes looks nothing like he does in the movie.

[Everyone laughs]

Kevin: He actually has a nose. [laughs]

Andrew: [laughs] And hair!

Kevin: It's amazing!

Ben: But yeah, I think she has done a really good job. I thought she was excellent.

Kevin: Yeah, I like her character.

Ben: It was kind of confusing, I don't know. I didn't really expect when she did the prophecy, to be [speaks in hoarse, creepy voice] "Ahhh, the Dark Lord will rise at midnight and the servant..."

Andrew: I thought that was the perfect...

Kevin: I thought that was pretty good, yeah.

Laura: I thought that was good.

Ben: [Speaks in hoarse, creepy voice again] "The Dark Lord..."

Andrew: Because she is a crazy woman. And she... [laughs] Okay!

[Everyone laughs]

[Andrew still laughing]

Kevin: Because she's a crazy woman...

Andrew: And she was... Yeah, she was really emotional with it. I mean, it fit her perfectly. [laughs] And everyone's like, who is this woman? I thought it was good.

Ben: [Speaks in hoarse, creepy voice again] "The Dark Lord..."

Andrew: Okay, enough.

Ben: Sorry. Got a little taken away there.

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