Becoming An Auror

Micah: Okay, well, Andrew mentioned before that Mad-Eye Moody made an appearance in Goblet of Fire - we all know it really wasn't him, but for a minute, I guess, pretend that he was because Barty Crouch Jr. tells Harry that he would have made a good Auror. So, what does it mean that Harry's chose - excuse me, chosen career path was one that was suggested by a Death Eater? Would the real Moody have suggested the same thing?

Laura: You know, I had a couple of thoughts on that. I was thinking that maybe Crouch Jr. saw Harry as a threat if he were to be an Auror, so maybe he was hoping that telling Harry he would be good at something like that would kind of fuel his "saving-people thing," and have him die in a situation where he's trying to be a hero or something along those lines.

Andrew: Well, don't you think he was going to be found out anyway, or he knew he would be found out eventually...Barty? So I mean, would that opinion go disrespected? Could it have been that Barty was just trying to get brownie points out of Harry by encouraging him?

Laura: Yeah, definitely. He could have definitely been trying to gain his trust.

Andrew: Right. So, I mean, I think looking back on that we should just take that with a grain of salt.

Eric: No, you know what I would say if I was asked this question about Barty Crouch Jr.? I would say that this - [laughs] this was a moment where, if circumstances would have been different, Barty Crouch Jr. was really, actually pretty much telling the truth and recommending an honest profession. I think there's always kind of a hope - not necessarily "hope" in every villain's eyes, but a chance that they will meet their enemy. That the hero will come and meet them. And the villain's mindset is always, "Oh wait until the hero comes and tries to rescue his damsel because I'll just show him off and destroy him." You see it in all these movies - in Batman especially. Like say Batman Forever, the Riddler is waiting for Batman to come and rescue Nicole Kidman. It's the mindset. So now, how this relates to Harry Potter is, in this scene, I think Barty Crouch Jr. was truly being truthful to Harry and he said, "I think you'd make a good Auror. You should try Auror-ing." And I think, by saying that, he was either putting him on to discover what the plot was of the book or just honestly having a nice moment where he said, "I think you'd make a decent Auror." I mean, it doesn't necessarily take - I don't think he's ignorant enough that he wouldn't recognize talent in a field against the Dark Arts. I mean, Harry stopped Voldemort as a child before he knew anything. I think it's clear that Harry's good at Auror-ing and I'm surprised nobody else recommended it to him before Barty Crouch did.

Ben: Well said, mate. Well said.

Moody Overcautious?

Andrew: So, when we meet Moody again in Order of the Phoenix, he seems even more over-cautious than he was before.

Ben: Well, it makes sense, though.

Andrew: Is this a function of the events of Goblet of Fire or the war?

Ben: Well, of course because he's going to be more cautious because we all know that he was being perceived as a nut before and now that he was locked up in a box for nine months, he's probably a little bit on edge.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: I was going to say. I mean, you spend your life in a cellar for nine months.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs] I have to agree with that.

Eric: The irony of this - I just realized this. If you think about it, Barty Crouch Sr. kept Barty Crouch Jr. in his basement, literally, under the Invisibility Cloak or whatever and under the Imperius Curse, and so it's kind of fitting or funny that, in an ironic sort of way, of course that Barty Crouch Jr., when he escapes, he locks somebody up in a chest, which closely resembles a giant hole in the ground (wherever you set the chest) and it's kind of like a basement. So, it's kind of a parallel or similarity, whereas Barty Crouch Sr. locked his son up in a basement, that Barty Crouch Jr. should escape and then hide the real Moody in some kind of thing like that too while he continues his life and seeks his revenge. It kind of shows that father and son aren't too different or draws that parallel.

Micah: Yeah, it could be a function of both things, you know? Both what happened in Goblet of Fire and also now it's definite that Voldemort is back at this time, so Moody has even more reason to be overcautious than he was in previous books.

Moody In The First War

Micah: What do you think he was like in the First War? We know for a fact that he hadn't - well, maybe we don't know, but it would make sense that he hadn't been as injured as he is right now. Well, actually we know that from the Pensieve scene in Goblet of Fire, when we actually see him normally. So, what do you guys think he was like back then?

Ben: I bet he was at the top of his game. That's what I'd say to describe it.

Laura: I think that he was probably always kind of paranoid, but I think that that definitely increased due to what happened in Goblet of Fire and Voldemort's return. I also think he was probably a little more laid back because in the Pensieve scene, he was saying stuff like, "This Death Eater took a chunk of me with him" and all this other stuff. So, I think he was probably a little more - I guess just laid back about everything and not quite so obsessed with thinking that people were trying to send him dark and cursed objects and the like.

Micah: But, he seems to enjoy it in a way, too. When he says stuff like, "This Death Eater took a piece of me."

Eric: I was just going to say that.

Micah: In a weird sort of way.

Laura: Yeah, I think he did, definitely. But, I think that the paranoia has definitely gone up a few notches.

Eric: I think people overplay his paranoia. I mean like Micah just said, when he says, "That Death Eater took a piece away from me with him," I think that's probably my favorite Moody trait - is that he can talk about that and say, "Oh, this Death Eater was a nasty bugger." And in the movie especially even with Brendan Gleeson, even though it's Barty Crouch Jr. saying it, "I could tell you things about your father that would make your ears turn," or whatever he says - that whole thing is a Moody character trait that I really enjoy, where he can truly use his knowledge to joke about his work but also take it so seriously. He attacks his job with knowledge, and precision, and personality - with stamina, with spunk. I think Moody is spunky. He should be called "Mad-Eye Spunky."

[Micah and Laura laugh]

Laura: Well, I agree that he's definitely very open about his job, but you've got to admit, the guy's pretty paranoid. I mean, in the opening chapters of Order of the Phoenix, he's telling Harry not to stick his wand in his back pocket because [laughs] he said he would blow his butt off. So...[laughs]

Eric: [laughs] It will blow his buttocks off!

Laura: So, I mean, he's got to be a little out there.

Eric: I think, I don't think that's paranoid. You know what? Maybe he had a brother who was in to sticking his wand in his back pocket and he blew his buttocks off. You never know. It's just a cautionary tale. It's like don't - don't spread your - don't do that smile thing where you pull your cheeks apart because it'll get stuck like that. You know? Who does that? But parents will still tell that to a kid for no reason - they know it won't do anything, but why, why would they say that?

Micah: I think he enjoys just bragging about it in a way.

Eric: It's just - it's just that kind of thing.

Mad-Eye's Role In The Order

Micah: So what do we think his role in the Order was the first time around? I mean, he probably played a pretty important role, leadership-wise.

Andrew: Did he? Well, I mean, is there much evidence of that?

Laura: I would think he would definitely be a huge asset just because of the fact that he is one of the top Aurors. We don't know necessarily what he did, but I'm sure that he did a lot of spying and...

Ben: Right, but was he a leader? Or was he a follower?

Micah: He's missing a lot. He's missing an eye, a leg, part of his nose.

Ben: Chicks dig scars, man. Chicks dig scars. [laughs]

The Photograph

Micah: So, in Order of the Phoenix, Harry gets shown the picture of the old Order by Moody, and he seems really dependent on showing him this photo. And in particular, he shows a picture of Peter Pettigrew sort of embracing Harry's parents. Now, do you think he knew that Pettigrew was the traitor that he was at that time? Because it would seem to me that he wouldn't be so intent on showing him this picture if he had known that.

Laura: I don't really think he knew, but I don't think it would make a difference if he did because if he was worried about upsetting Harry or kind of weirding him out, showing him a picture of his dead parents, like, doing the thing they did that pretty much caused their death would, you know, kind of freak Harry out. So, I don't think that he would refrain from showing him the picture just because Pettigrew was in it. But, I really don't think he did know. Or no - well, no, Sirius was in the Order so there would have to be some explanation for why Sirius was all of a sudden back.

Eric: Well, you guys have to remember also Dumbledore himself gave evidence that Sirius was guilty so, I mean, I don't think it was possible that anybody would have implicated Peter in the plot. And that was just the genius of it was that everybody would so - I mean, everybody, not just the Marauders kind of disregarded him a little bit. Kind of didn't appreciate him and that was everybody, including McGonagall, herself. I mean, even if they didn't openly taunt him, nobody expected him to really do anything too - too, you know, climactic. So, when he went to the other side - when he disappeared nobody knew what hit him. And they would just assume - suspect Sirius because Sirius is more openly capable of doing something sporadic and rational, as we're seeing. Rash, I mean. Not rational - there's a difference. But that - that's the deal. So, I don't think Moody would have known at the time or else he would have stopped it or tried to. Or at least said something at Sirius' - his court date.

Laura: Well, no, I don't think that was really the question. I think we're talking about did Moody know that Pettigrew was the traitor at the time he showed Harry the picture.

Eric: Oh! Like in book 5?

Laura: Yeah. I think he would have to, wouldn't he? Because Sirius was back living at Order headquarters and I would think everyone would kind of want to know...

Eric: Oh, yeah.

Laura: ...why he was all of a sudden in everyone's good graces. [laughs]

Eric: [laughs] They're kind of in everyone's - yeah. No, I think that's definite. I think one of the good things about Dumbledore - even though he holds a lot of crap back from everybody, you've got to kind of respect him for it. But he does - he will openly tell people what they need to know and there's a lot of comparisons with people. Just looking at Aslan from The Chronicles of Narnia, he's not nearly as open with people as Dumbledore is - we should actually be very grateful. But still, both characters will tell people what they need to know. Both characters will tell people what they need to know. And so Dumbledore will tell Moody. I mean, I think especially since they're at Sirius' house, they need to know why he's walking around. I mean, yes, of course, I'm sorry. I completely misunderstood the question.

Laura: Yeah, I think I did it at first too. Micah, did we get that right...?

Micah: No, no, you guys got it right.

Laura: ...or did I sort of...

Micah: In the end, yeah.

Laura: ...screw that up?

Eric: I mean...

Laura: Okay. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, I think Dumbledore definitely would've - he had to tell everybody in the Order that Sirius was... I think there's no mistaking - even at the end of book 3 with the dog and the infirmary, or whenever that happens. I think that, that happened, right? There was something where...

Laura: Book 4.

Eric: ...that Sirius - yeah, they didn't know.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. Molly didn't know that Sirius was Sirius the dog, and still Sirius was there in the infirmary. So ,he told - he tells them what they need to know. I think it's - I think they all know the story now.

Micah: If anything, it was just to teach him more about the Order and maybe even to make him realize how close the friendship actually was.

Laura: Yeah, and maybe it was just his attempt to try and do something nice for Harry.

Micah: Yeah. He didn't realize that maybe at first that Pettigrew was even going to be there.

Mad-Eye Gone Missing

Micah: A bigger question would be is where was Moody in Half Blood Prince? Is he, like, missing an arm now? Is he missing half his head?

[Laura laughs]

Eric: I didn't notice that Moody was out of Book 6. I'm sorry. Was he not in the ending battle at all?

Laura: No, he wasn't, actually. He wasn't there.

Eric: That seems incredibly weird.

Laura: Yeah. Maybe we should be getting a little worried now.

Eric: I mean, it seems like - yeah, I think we should be worried because, well, Dumbledore mentioned all those old Aurors, and he mentioned all of them and if Dumbledore knows them, Moody would know them especially. They all broke out of Azkaban. In fact, these are the Death Eaters that Moody put away. So, why would he not want to jump at the challenge to put them back in Azkaban or face them at all? I mean, I don't know. It's interesting.

Andrew: You know what would be a great way to end this series? Is that - would be where every character - I guess not the minor ones so much but like, Mad-eye and Pettigrew. Well, maybe not so much Pettigrew either. [laughs] Well, yeah Pettigrew because he has the debt. Everyone comes back and plays some sort of little role in helping Harry. I just think that would be so cool to see everyone one last time. Everyone!

Eric: I thought that, too. I think I would agree. Yeah.

Laura: I can't really remember - was Moody at Dumbledore's funeral?

Eric: He better have been.

Laura: Because it would - because we know something's wrong if he wasn't there.[laughs]

Andrew: Someone search the book. [laughs]

Micah: We'll have to look into that.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah but I mean, they don't mention - she doesn't mention everyone at the funeral. So...

Laura: I mean, she talked about Madam Maxime.

Micah: She took the time to mention Umbridge.

Laura: Yeah. Oh no, wait - it says Mad-Eye Moody was there. Never mind. Okay.

Andrew: We would've gotten so many e-mails on that one.

[Everyone laughs]

Laura: I know.

Andrew: That's why we need that monkey.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: People were ready to hit the send button. You can stop, you can stop. Hit the little "X." Thank you.

Eric: [laughs] Close the e-mail.

Andrew: [laughs] Thanks, Laura.

Laura: We try really hard, you guys. We really do. [laughs]

Andrew: You don't understand how many people just hit their head up against the screen and are now going to the hospital.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: So, one appearance.

Laura: Now watch. We're going to get tons of e-mails that are like, "What are you talking about? Moody did this huge thing" and all this other stuff. [laughs]

Andrew: "Page 334, it was right there!"

Eric: You know what, though. No, but we live for that kind of crap so don't, you know...

Andrew: Well, I guess that lays to rest any thoughts that he could have been in some really bad - really bad shape.

Moody's Role In Book 7

Andrew: So, like I was just saying earlier, how could he help in Book 7? I'll tell you how he can help. He can use that magical eye and see through walls for Horcruxes.

Ben: I'm sure they're just hiding behind all the walls. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: I'm telling you. It's going to be in a really obvious spot and nobody's going to even think to look there. Someone sent an e-mail - I hate to jump on this Horcrux discussion. It always goes back to the Horcruxes. [laughs] Someone sent in an e-mail - I guess one or two weeks ago saying that maybe the final Horcrux is in Dumbledore's office because who would think to look there? It's such - it's in a such obvious place.

Eric: I think Dumbledore would think to look there.

Laura: Why would Voldemort put it there?

Andrew: Because nobody would think to look there.

Eric: Okay, well, guys. There...

Andrew: Would Dumbledore even think to look there? Although, then raises the question how would Voldemort have gotten into Dumbledore's office?

Eric: Andrew, I'm going to - well, I can answer that. I am going to shoot down the theory, but I can answer that. There is - when Voldemort comes back to Dumbledore's office, asking for the Defense Against the Dark Arts post or whatever, there is a point where Voldemort twitches his wand or at least grasps for his wand as if to battle Dumbledore. Now, some people who are 'shippers of the theory that the Sorting Hat is a Horcrux argue that this moment, while perceived by Harry to be a potential attack, could have rather been Voldemort twitching his wand and aiming at something within the office, in this case, the Sorting Hat, and turning that into a Horcrux. The reason I am against this is because the Horcrux ceremony is supposed to be a little bit more complicated than that. Not to say that Voldemort couldn't dull it down a little bit, and, you know, make it into a wand click or whatever, but also I think that Dumbledore would be the first person to think to look there. I mean, it's - at the same - it's under Dumbledore's nose in a way that it would be completely brilliant if it happened, but at the same time, I think it's too under Dumbledore's nose, and Dumbledore figured out the whole freaking you have to, like, cut your hand and spray blood on the wall and part the thing and go across the way. He figured out this whole thing to get the other Horcrux, and he somehow destroyed the other Horcrux. I think it would be very, very unlikely, in all his life of living in that office as headmaster for fifty so years, if he didn't notice anything that had a particular magical quality about it that would indicate a Horcrux. I think - I don't think anybody is that, that good, to fool Dumbledore if it were right in his office, especially if it were the Sorting Hat.

Laura: Yeah, I agree with that.

Andrew: Well said. No, yeah, I think that was really well said. And then, of course, which raises the question, "Well, how do you make a Horcrux?" And, oh, how we'd love to figure these things out!

Moody And The Horcruxes

Eric: Well, going back to Moody, I wanted to say, I think it's cool that I brought up the blood-spraying thing, because now that Dumbledore is gone (sob, cry, kick chair, hurt toe, yelp), I think Moody is probably the second best bet for helping Harry locate a Horcrux. Do you guys agree with that? Like as far as - I mean, Moody is an Auror, so I'd like to think that he'd be more keen to people and bad wizards as opposed to finding extraordinary magic. But at the same time, Moody has been in long. He has put his time in for the service, and he would probably would be able to, I think - he still would probably be second best to detect some kind of magic that would be a Horcrux. At least in destroying a Horcrux, he should be able to help, and I think he could really prove to be Harry's next best option. Well, talking about Moody.

Laura: I think at the very least, he would definitely know where to look, but at the same time, I don't want to see anyone help Harry too much, because this is where Harry is supposed to grow up and come into his own, and this is his battle. And I don't know. I don't want to see someone helping him kill Voldemort or helping him defeat a Horcrux.

Eric: Well, okay, but I don't want to see Harry going into every single building that Voldemort was in. It would be cool to write about, of course, you know, like an odyssey of everywhere Voldemort went, and, you know, sniffing the walls and hoping. I mean, what we have seen in Book 7, sorry, in Book 6, was that not only is Dumbledore a lot more powerful than Harry will ever be, but he speaks other languages and other - he has other ways of detecting extremely dark magic that haven't even been referenced or foreshadowed in the books. I mean, Dumbledore is just up there, completely out there - beyond anything. And it's not like one of those things where Harry will have to grow up and one day become that. I don't think anybody can become Dumbledore. So, he will need to accept help in some form, and while I agree he should look for the Horcruxes, and while his journey should be his own, I wouldn't mind him accepting help from Moody because I really don't see it as realistic that he's going to go to Godric's Hollow, where he shouldn't even know where that is, by the way, or shouldn't even know why he's going there, and find something that should help him do something. I think he needs to rely on people, and I think Moody is definitely one of the people I want to see helping him.

Ben: About that, you're talking about how Harry needs to rely on other people. Was I the only one - I hate to sort of branch off-topic here, but I think this is staying on topic. You know, when Imposter Moody in Goblet of Fire is helping out Harry through the three tasks, was I the only one who felt at the end, it sort of made you - like, how you thought how Harry was such a great wizard and all these things because he was able to succeed in the tasks, that it sort of devalued it to the extent that since we knew he had all that help from Imposter Moody? Did you guys feel the same way?

Eric: I think she balanced it.

Laura: I didn't feel disappointed with it. I didn't feel disappointed with it, if that's what you're saying, but I definitely felt like it gave Harry a lot to live up to. It sort of forged his future path and the kind of things he would need to learn, and what kind of person he would need to become to be able to succeed on his own.

Eric: Yeah. I think it also - I think it's the philosophy that Dumbledore actually probably went to and used in his first five years of not telling Harry everything, was that, if you help him, they will either become reliant on help, or the second option, which is be more inclined not to be able to find help on their own. I think in this case, Moody's helping him kind of hindered Harry's ability to - Harry doesn't expect to be helped, but at the same time, I don't know that he could have developed other abilities that would have allowed him to find more things out on his own if Moody hadn't been helping him. And I think that's one of the key reasons why Dumbledore didn't help him too terribly much throughout the book. Apart from the fact that Dumbledore wants people to live their own life and make their own choices, Harry also kind of had to figure things out for himself, because Dumbledore figured he wasn't going to be there when Harry went for the end line, and so it only makes sense that he would give Harry this - Hogwarts as his playing ground, but to live his life, you know, without too much help. I think that's why Dumbledore didn't help Harry more throughout the books.

Micah: I just think it's part of the plot. Like Moody, or Imposter Moody, is the reason why he's there in the first place, so he has to help him along. Otherwise, his plan goes for nothing.

Mad-Eye Brendan Gleeson

Andrew: It's time to wrap this up. Let's finish things off by explaining our views on Brendan Gleeson. I have to say, I was very impressed by him. He exceeded my expectations. He was both funny, witty, and he was very - he portrayed the character very strongly. He always had this angry tone in his voice. I really liked him.

Ben: See Andrew gives Mr. Brendan Gleeson an exceeds expectations. I think that he did - oh, what's another ranking? An outstanding job.

Laura: I really appreciated his portrayal. I thought he was absolutely excellent, and I am really, really looking forward to seeing him in Order of the Phoenix. I just thought that he was a real character, and I really enjoyed watching him.

Eric: Me as well. He was definitely one of the strong points - I don't know. I don't want to say strong points in Goblet of Fire because it had so many. I just really liked the movie. But he definitely added a color that was essential to the palette, if I'll use that. Sorry, the art show was this week. I'm thinking in art terms.

Andrew: All right. So, as I said earlier, we will be doing two of these a month, so that means that next week, we will be doing a miscellaneous discussion. We will give you that topic next week. We want to keep it a surprise. [in low voice] Shhh. Don't tell anyone.

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