MuggleCast | The #1 Most-Listened to Harry Potter Podcast 3

MuggleCast EP40 Transcript


Ryan [Show Intro with music in background]: Because Harry Potter is for little kids too, this is MuggleCast - Episode 40 for May 21st, 2006.

Andrew: Oh, good job Ryan.

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Ben: Hello, Potterites! Welcome to MuggleCast - your Harry Potter podcast for the fans, by the fans, where we bring your everything from Dobby's socks to your thoughts and a little bit of Spy on Spartz.

Andrew: [laughs] So, that's what we're doing this week. I'm Andrew Sims.

Kevin: I'm Kevin Steck.

Laura: I'm Laura Thompson.

Ben: And joining us this week?

Jess: Jess Costain.

Ben: Without further ado, let's go to MuggleCast's own Micah Tannenbaum for a look at this past week's news.


JK Rowling, Stephen King and John Irving will be holding a press conference on August first in New York City, a few hours prior to the first benefit performance of their charity reading event. The conference will take place at 10 AM at Radio City Music Hall.

Several actors and actresses from the Harry Potter films have been nominated for the 60th annual Tony Awards including Ralph Fiennes and Jim Dale. For a complete list, head over to

The winners will be announced on June 11th on CBS.

Reuters reported earlier this week that The Chronicles of Narnia DVD has sold 11 million copies, beating Goblet of Fire which holds just under 10 million sales. Of interest, Narnia was released on DVD nearly a month after Goblet of Fire went on sale. Don't forget: You can find complete details on the fourth film's digital video disc on our Goblet of Fire DVD page.

According to a report released by the Book Industry Study Group, publishers generated $34.6 billion in 2005, up 5.9 percent from the previous year. 3.1 billion books were sold last year, up 3.8 percent from 2004. The strongest growth occurred in juvenile books, which sold $3.34 billion in 2005. The release of the sixth book in the Harry Potter series, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, accounted for the majority of the boom.

At the National Press Club's Audie Awards in Washington DC Friday night, Half-Blood was entered into the Audio Publishers Association's brand-new Hall of Fame. Half-Blood Prince is the very first book to have been awarded with this prestigious honor. The book was narrated by Jim Dale for Listening Library.

As part of her 80th birthday celebration, the Queen of Britain will hold a massive party at Buckingham Palace on June 25th to celebrate children's literature, both new and old. JK Rowling, along with several characters from reknowned children's novels, will be in attendance. Jo will read from the sixth Harry Potter book before a show featuring dozens of the best-loved children's characters. The Daily Telegraph has opened an exciting competition in which you could win a ticket to the party, but you must be British and aged 4-14 to enter.

Dan Radcliffe has made Teen People's watch list for one of the "25 Hottest Stars Under 25" for 2007. The page includes a small note about Dan's new film December Boys and the fifth Harry Potter film, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.

And several of the stars from Harry Potter films have been named to Netscape's list of 15 of the UK's finest. Ralph Fiennes (Voldemort) came in at #8 and Dan Radcliffe, Emma Watson and Rupert Grint were as one ranked ninth on the list. Clive Owen and Keira Knightley took the top two spots.

Sony Pictures Classics has purchased the North American film rights to Rupert Grint's new film Driving Lessons. No release date has been set.

Finally, last October, the flying Ford Anglia used in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets was mysteriously stolen from Southwest Film Studios in St. Agnes. On Wednesday, the stolen car turned up (I'm sorry about the rearview mirror) at Carn Brea Castle, a 14th-century stone twin-towered fortress near Falmouth, Cornwall.

That's all the news for this May 21st, 2006 edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.


Ben: So, we have a new face in the crowd this week. Jess, you're new to this. What exactly do you do around MuggleNet? Go ahead and introduce yourself.

Jess: Well, I used to work in the Fan Fiction section for over a year. And, since then I have been doing work on MuggleNet's Gallery and other, just various pages - whatever I can scrounge that the other staffers haven't already taken.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Gallery, huh? What gallery?

Ben: What gallery?

Andrew: What unspeakable gallery? [laughs]

Jess: Sure. Yeah, the one that doesn't load on all the pages.

Ben: You heard it here first.

[Everyone laughs]


Ben: Okay, we have a few announcements for you this week. Go ahead and buy your MuggleCast T-shirt. If you haven't bought one yet, go buy one now. Buy 12 - buy one for each member of your family, at least five of your friends. Just go out and buy your MuggleCast T-shirt. And we have good reason why you need to buy one, though. Right, Andrew?

Andrew: Well, right. It's really important that everyone purchases a T-shirt by Tuesday, [fakes coughs], my birthday, because Muggle...

Kevin: [fake coughs] Not important.

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: ...National Wear Your MuggleCast T-Shirt Day is coming up on June 2nd. What does National Wear Your MuggleCast T-Shirt Day mean? Well, two weeks ago I explained to everyone that I went to Congress and I got this new bill signed that states that: "June 2nd of every year is now National Wear Your MuggleCast T-Shirt Day." So, everyone needs to purchase their T-shirts and take a picture of yourself wearing it on June 2nd. And then we'll post them on the site and we'll randomly pick five of them, and then they will win our Lumos 2006 shirt before it even comes out. Well, before Lumos even happens.

Ben: Yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: So, it's really, really, really cool shirt and we're really excited about it.

Ben: So yeah, everybody go out and participate, take a picture of yourself wearing your MuggleCast T-shirt.

Andrew: Tuesday is the deadline if you want to get them by June 2nd - May 26th is the complete, last, last chance deadline.

Ben: Cutoff.

Andrew: But chances are if you order after the 23rd, you might not get the shirt in time.

Ben: No guarantee. Remember that.

Andrew: Right.

Listener Rebuttal - Pokeflutes

Ben: Okay, well I think that wraps up the announcements. It's time for this week's listener rebuttals. Pokeflutes, how do you say it?

Andrew: Pokeflutes.

Ben: Pokeflutes.

Andrew: Pokeflutes.

Ben: Pokeflutes? Pokeflutes awake Snorlax, they don't put them to sleep. Andrew, do you care to explain? [laughs]

Andrew: [laughs] Well, yes I do, Ben.

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: You were on last week's show weren't you?

Ben: Uhhh, I think - I think I got put to sleep. I don't know. [laughs] I don't remember.

[Kevin laughs]

Andrew: [laughs] You don't remember the Pokeflutes? Oh, whatever. Anyway, so last week I brought up that I was testing my Pokemon knowledge by saying that the Pokeflute would be useful in a situation with Fluffy.

Ben: Got to catch 'em all!

Andrew: Or I said something like that.

Ben: Got to catch 'em all!

Andrew: Yeah. [singing] Got to catch 'em all. Go to... Oh, I can't remember. Forget it! [laughs] So...

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: So, I said that Pokeflutes put Snorlax to sleep, but actually Pokeflutes awake Snorlax. I can't believe I screwed that up.

Ben: Oh geez.

Andrew: I'm really sorry. I can't even begin to count how many e-mails we got on that this week.

[Ben and Kevin laugh]

Andrew: So, thanks to everyone who e-mailed in with all your Pokemon knowledge.

Kevin: Yep.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: I should have quizzed my little brother and my neighbor that goes "Pika, Pika" running around the neighborhood for some weird reason.

Listener Rebuttal - Baby Harry

Ben: Okay, let's move on to our next listener rebuttal.

Hi, my name is Melissa, I'm 16 and from Montreal, Canada. I was listening to Episode 39 earlier, and while you guys were talking about how Harry wouldn't be able to remember anything about Godric's Hollow, a sudden realization hit me. Harry has said before that he only remembers a blinding green light. Now, I'm not sure about this, but WHAT IF Harry takes the Pensieve, concentrates really hard on that memory, and tries to extract it? Do you think he'd be able to see a bit about what went on that night 15 years ago? And if he did, do you think there might be something that would help him find a Horcrux?

Well, I think that if Harry is able to extract the memory that I - oh, to preface this a little bit, psychologists say that the memories do exist somewhere in your brain and it's just channeling them and being able to remember them. So, if Harry is somehow able to suck the memory out with his wand or whatever and put it into a Pensieve, then he probably will be able to look at it from a new perspective that he's never seen before. In terms of that helping him find a Horcrux, I'm not so sure. What do you guys think?

Laura: You pretty much summed up my thoughts. I have to say I agree with that.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jess: Yeah.

Andrew: Well, what about the Horcrux part of it? I mean...

Ben: It's possible, but...

Laura: I think that would be too easy.

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: There may be some clues, but...

Andrew: I mean...

Ben:'s not like he's going to say, "Oh my gosh, there's one of my dirty diapers - it's a Horcrux! You know? [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Kevin: Yeah, but at the same time, how much perspective does a baby have on a situation? Because he remembers a blinding green light, but he's in a crib.

Andrew: That's true.

Kevin: So, all he remembers is a crib.

Jess: Yeah.

Kevin: How will that help him?

Ben: That's true.

Laura: Mhm.

Ben: I don't know.

Andrew: Good point.

Ben: I don't really see it playing too much of a factor.

Andrew: The Horcrux is in the crib.

Ben: Yeah. [laughs]

Jess: Unless Voldemort turned Harry's crib into a Horcrux.

Andrew: Oh yeah. There you go.

Ben: Thanks a lot! You guys are the best! Keep up with the good work! Melissa.

Laura: Awww!

Listener Rebuttal - The Potters And The Prophecy

Ben: Okay, our next listener rebuttal is from Caroline from Missouri.

Mugglecasters, last week you talked about if Lily and James knew about the prophecy. On pg. 204 of Prisoner of Azkaban, where Fudge is talking in the Three Broomsticks, Fudge says, "Not many people are aware that the Potters knew You-Know-Who was after them. Dumbledore, who was of course working tirelessly against You-Know-Who, had a number of useful spies. One of them tipped him off, and he alerted James and Lily at once. He advised them to go into hiding." So, James and Lily might not have known the ENTIRE prophecy, but they did know they were marked and went into hiding because of the prophecy itself, not just because they had survived Voldemort three times. Thanks, Caroline!

Andrew: So, there we go. That answers last week's question...

Ben: She raises a good point, though.

Andrew: ...that we were asking ourselves.

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: Well, she raises a good point about how they knew the reason they went into hiding was because of the prophecy in an indirect way - not only because they had thrice defied Voldemort.

Andrew: Oh yeah.

Ben: But, thanks for that, Caroline. Now moving on to the next listener rebuttal.

Listener Rebuttal - Godric's Hollow

Ben: This comes from Lauren from Long Island. Kevin used to live there. [laughs]

Kevin: Yes, I did.


In Episode 39, you were talking about Godric's Hollow and why Harry would go there and how he knew where it was. In Half-Blood Prince, in the chapter entitled "The White Tomb," Harry says "For me, it started there, all of it. I've just got a feeling I need to go there. And I can visit my parents' graves. I'd like that." I think he is just guessing that they are buried there, and hoping that also. I don't think he hopes to find a Horcrux, just that he feels like he should start his search where all of this started. Thanks! I love you guys (and girl)!

See Laura, you weren't left out.

Laura: Awww!

[Ben laughs]

Laura: I feel loved.

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: But anyway...

Laura: But yeah, I agree with Lauren 100 percent. I think that's pretty much what a couple of us...

Ben: Yeah, she's right.

Laura: ...were saying last week, so it's really good to see that reflected.

Ben: There was one dissenter in the group, but...

Laura: Oh, but...

Ben: ...he's not with us this week.

Laura: No, we love Eric.

Ben: Awww, poor Eric. Okay, well that sums up the listener rebuttals.

Andrew: Starting next week we're going to try something new with our Listener Rebuttals. After listening to this week's show, send in a voice rebuttal for us to play in our new, quote on quote, Rebuttal Montage. You can send these in by Skyping the username Mugglecast, or calling our hotline at 1-218-20-MAGIC. Please send these - please send these to us in the form of a comment rather than a question. Rebuttal questions can still be sent in via email to mugglecast at staff dot mugglenet dot com.

MuggleCast's Mid-life Crisis

Ben: So, yeah. So, Andrew. We reached the milestone this week - this show. It makes me so sad.

Andrew: We did?

Ben: Yes. It's almost time for a mid-life crisis, I'm thinking.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: We're forty. We're forty!

Andrew: I don't know, I think it happened earlier this week. It must be a sign. We're on our way to eighty.

Ben: We're forty.

[Andrew laughing]

Ben: Forty episodes. I remember when we thought ten was a lot. When me, you, and Kevin were like, "Yeah! We made it ten episodes!"

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: "We've made it so far!"

Kevin: It's true.

Andrew: Forty weeks is a lot. I mean, we started this show back on August 4th, and we skipped two weeks. So, what do you guys think?

Ben: We're going to keep going strong.

Kevin: I think we're old.

Andrew: It's fun.

Laura: Well, I'm only 31.

Andrew: When did you start, Laura? Like Episode...

Laura: Like 9.

Andrew: You started on Episode 9?

Laura: Or 8. Something like that. So...

Andrew: Well, I know Eric came on on like 4 or 5.

Laura: I'm not old yet.

Andrew: And Jamie came in on 4 or 5.

Ben: He came in the same time. Yeah, he came in on the same time as Eric. Jeez, it's been quite the ride.

Andrew: I don't know if we've mentioned it on the show yet, but MuggleCast 50 is perfectly timed with our one year anniversary of releasing the first show. Which, like I said, was on August 4th.

Ben: Well, theoretically it should be 52. [laughs] If it was a year.

Andrew: Yeah. Well it's going to be our 50th episode because we skipped two weeks. But, the plan is, that during Vegas, since we're all going to be there: me, Laura, Kevin, Eric, Jamie...

Ben: Just forget about me. Just forget about me.

Kevin: Not Ben.

Andrew: I was getting to you. I was getting to you. We're all going to meet up in a little room...

Ben: Save the best for last.

Andrew: ...kick all the Leaky and other MuggleNet people out - sorry, Jess. Are you even - are you coming, Jess?

Jess: Yep, I'm coming.

Laura: She's rooming with me.

Andrew: Sweet.

Jess: I'm going to be there.

Laura: It's going to be awesome.

Andrew: We're all going to gather into one little room. We're going to kick all the MuggleNet and Leaky people out, and we're going to record our one year anniversary special, Episode 50. It's great timing. Only ten more episodes. So, we just wanted to thank everyone for making it through 40 episodes of us blabbing and - here's to forty more.

Ben: Yeah, here's to forty more. [Goes into song] My next forty episodes, I'm going to watch my weight. Eat a few more salads, not stay up so late.


Character Discussion - Lucius Malfoy

Ben: Sorry, I got a bit carried away there. Without further rambling, let's move on to this week's Character Discussion. It's back this week. Last week we talked about Book 7 and things relating to it, and now we're going to continue to alternate and this week it's back to the Character Discussion. And it's Lucius Malfoy. Just a little bit of information about Mr. Lucius: He's forty-three years old, he was born in 1954. He is, of course, in Slytherin House. He's a Death Eater who is very skilled in the Dark Arts. According to Voldemort, Lucius always took the head in Muggle tortures, something at which he undoubtedly excelled. Lucius is also an expert at manipulating people. Am I the only one who used to call him Lucius? [pronounces it Lu-chus]

Andrew: I did.

Kevin: I did too, yeah.

Jess: Oh, no, I do that all the time.

Ben: Yeah, Lucius Malfoy has white-blonde hair and cold gray eyes. His face is very pale and pointed. Lucius is a wealthy man who uses his wealth to influence people. He is arrogant, calculated, and used to getting his own way at any cost. Of course, he's a pureblood and the Malfoy heritage goes way back. In terms of the Harry Potter books, his first mention was in Sorcerer's Stone, Chapter 5 - which we've already been over - and his first appearance didn't actually happen until Chamber of Secrets in Knockturn Alley. This information comes from MuggleNet's Encyclopedia, which - part of which, this article was written by Laura. Ooo.

Andrew: Ooo.

Laura: Oh yeah, I remember that now.

[Kevin laughs]

Laura: I had forgotten I'd done that. Cool.

How Great was Lucius' Influence?

Ben: So, we have a series of questions that we want to talk about. The first one being: Was Lucius the prime influence in the Ministry's beliefs on Voldemort returning? Because we all know that he and Cornelius Fudge were like two peas in a pod, and if he really wanted to, he could use his influence to say, "Fudge, you know Dumbledore's way out there." What do you guys think?

Laura: I think it's entirely possible that he is kind of another one of Fudge's puppet-masters, and the fact that he sits there and tells him what he thinks Fudge needs to believe in order to benefit his and Voldemort's cause. And I think that he probably had a huge hand in Fudge's blatant denial that Voldemort had returned.

Andrew: True that.

Kevin: I think he was a factor in it, but I don't think he was the sole reason why Fudge was...

Ben: Right. Fudge was also in denial, just in general because...

Kevin: Exactly, he was, yeah.

Ben: Because he didn't...

Jess: I agree. I don't think Fudge needed much help.

Ben: He didn't choose to recognize the threat that was there. It's because he wouldn't have to deal with it.

Kevin: Exactly. He's sort of a ditz.

Laura: But Fudge listens to whatever anyone tells him.

Ben: Not necessarily, but...

Kevin: Not necessarily.

Ben: No, if that was the case, he would have believed what Dumbledore was saying.

Kevin: Dumbledore. Exactly.

Laura: No, but at the time, he had started...

Andrew: Dumbledore's a different case.

Laura: Yeah, he'd started having his own feelings of dislike towards Dumbledore at that time, and he was also spending more time around Lucius.

Ben: Well, but the point is, if you think about it - okay, this is the most evil wizard there has been since Grindelwald - before Grindelwald - the past century they said. Okay, would you really want him returning on your watch and having to be held accountable for it? For example, at the opening of Half-Blood Prince, we see where Fudge sort of - it all comes back to bite him because he has to go to the Muggle Minister and say, "The bridge wasn't taken out by a storm; it was done by Giants," and stuff like that.

Laura: Mhm.

Ben: Wasn't it? Yeah.

Laura: Of course. On top of the fact that he doesn't want to deal with it, he's got Lucius sitting behind him saying, "Oh, Dumbledore's wrong." So, I think that he probably had a much larger impact than we probably could have imagined at the time.

Ben: Well, yeah, and especially since Draco's always boasting about how his father is friends of the Ministry and whatever. So...

Kevin: That's true, yeah.

Ben: That can always help out. We didn't really see much of Lucius in Book 6. I mean, was he even there at Hogwarts? I don't think he was, was he?

Laura: No.

Ben: So...

Andrew: Well, I think his whole purpose in Book 6 [coughs] was at the very beginning.

Ben: Right.

Andrew: Oh, when he's mentioned.

What Will Lucius' Role in Book 7 Be?

Ben: So, do you think that he's going to play an important role in Book 7? Or a role at all?

Kevin: Oh, absolutely.

Laura: Mhm.

Kevin: Without a doubt.

Laura: I don't know about a big role...

Ben: I think he's going to get the axe.

Laura: Yeah, I think so as well. I don't know about a big role concerning the final outcome of the story, but I think we're definitely going to find out what his fate is. It would be kind of pointless if we had all of this lead-up from all of the books: him getting thrown into prison, finding out that Voldemort is ticked off enough to assign his son a task that could ultimately end up with his death, and then not have anything happen to him in the seventh book.

Kevin: Right.

Ben: Mhm. I feel like it may just be an after-thought, though, towards the end where Jo's wrapping all of it up, she'll say...

Kevin: Well, see the reason why I wouldn't think that is because of the way they developed him as a...

Ben: Bad guy?

Kevin: A bad guy, exactly. Harry almost despises him as much as he despises Malfoy and Voldemort. So...

Andrew: From the beginning, too.

Kevin: Exactly. So, just a build-up to that tends to make me think that she's going to at least show him getting the axe or his role in...

Ben: Right.

Kevin: ...the whole battle.

How Did Lucius Become School Governor?

Ben: That's definitely true, and something that we mentioned with the first question about him influencing Fudge, is that Lucius appears - well, prior to it being exposed that he was a Death Eater and him getting sent to Azkaban, he really had a lot of sway and power in the magical community. And in Book 3, we saw that he was a school governor - or in Book 2, excuse me - that he was a school governor, and he led to the first signs of political corruption in the Ministry and all these things. And how do you think someone like Lucius would become a school governor?

Laura: I think that someone like Lucius would become school governor in the same way that corrupt people do in real life, because...

Kevin: Of course, yeah.

Laura: I actually - where I live, we have a man, whose name I will not mention, who everybody sees as this very - he's just this great guy and all this other stuff, and he's involved in all these different county activities, but he's really a big jerk. And it's like no one wants to believe it and no one wants to admit to it, but he's really mean to people and they just don't want to see it and it's just because people don't want to admit that someone that is seen as so saintly, is actually a bad person.

Ben: Right, because he has the perception that he does his best to live up to as a respectable man. But you know of course there's the people who realize - who see him for what he really is, which is a scumbag.

Laura: Mhm.

Ben: And it's kind of hard to tell those people no when the time comes. Especially since he could be torturing your family for votes or whatever [laughs], just to become part of the school governor's board.

Laura: Well, we saw it - I think it was either at the end of Goblet of Fire or sometime in Order of the Phoenix, when one of Fudge's defenses for the Malfoys was they donate to countless charities and people do not want to believe that someone who, say, is donating to a good cause, they can't sit there and say - they don't want to believe that person could be bad.

Ben: Right. 'Cause something...

Laura: Because it's almost like dirty money that they're giving to that charity.

Ben: Right, this is kind of funny that last week I continually rehashed the terrorism parallel. Something that's really interesting is that Osama Bin Laden has donated literally millions upon millions of dollars to Islamic charities in the Middle East - which goes to show that even just because you donate money or whatever, there still could be corruption there.

Kevin: Oh, of course, yeah.

Laura: Well, and I mean, Osama Bin Laden was trained by America. [laughs]

Ben: Exactly.

Laura: We trained him and the wizarding world trained Voldemort. So, I mean, you see countless - I'm not sure that they're intentional parallels, but you see a lot of connections with the corruption in government, not stating anything specific, however.

Lucius as a Vicious Father

Ben: Yeah, we've seen how Lucius has been - how he is politically in terms of Cornelius Fudge and his position - and abusing his position on the Governor's Board. But as a parent, he seems to be a vicious father, especially towards Draco. Do you guys have any idea why he's so hard on Draco?

Andrew: Well, yeah. He wants Draco to be the best. I mean, isn't that the signs of like every parent who wants their child to be the best? They're really rough on them and if you get a bad grade, you're grounded for weeks. And I can draw that connection to people, over on me. Like, their parents see they get one bad grade and you're grounded or you lose your cell phone, or iPod, or whatever...

Ben: Absolutely.

Andrew: And by bad grade, I mean like a "C"...

Ben: A "B."

Andrew: Or, even a "B," yeah. It drops, so I think that's why.

Ben: Yeah, that does explain why he would be so hard on him.

Jess: Well, to cut in, I think he also wants a suitable heir. He didn't have any other children, so this is his one shot to protect the Malfoy fortune and fame and et cetera, et cetera.

Laura: Yeah, I agree with that 100 percent.

Jess: He doesn't want Draco to just be a...

Ben: Yeah.

Jess: ...wayward son, no matter how good his grades are, so he has to keep a tight leash.

Laura: Yeah, that's true.

Kevin: He's also making sure that Draco believes in what he believes so that he can continue that legacy.

Ben: That's that.

Andrew: I think he's accomplished that.

Laura: Do you think that - I mean, we've obviously seen some faltering on Draco's part. Do you think that maybe from a young age, Draco exhibited some kind of rebellious nature towards Lucius and that's why he's so hard on him?

Ben: Well, I think it was in Sorcerer's Stone, or maybe it was just the movie, but either in the movie or the book, Draco says that he's going to "bully his father" - that was in, yeah it was in the book actually - he was...

Laura: Yeah.

Ben: ...going to bully his father into buying him a broom. So it seems like there might have always been a continuous power struggle between the two and that may have led to why Lucius, the more powerful of the two, is being so controlling and so hard on his son.

Laura: Which is interesting because then that means that he feels threatened by Draco.

Ben: Yeah, that's true.

Andrew: So could that mean he knows something about Draco that we don't know yet?

Laura: I just think that - I mean, Draco's not stupid. We know that he's not and I think that Lucius sees that in his son. And I think, above anything, he fears his heir going to the good side or not being an active participant in Voldemort's inner circle.

Andrew: So, he has to give him what he wants and he has to have respect for him.

Ben: What if Draco ends up killing his father in the end? I could see that happening. Because, you know throughout the books, there has always been people who killed their fathers. Like, Voldemort killing his dad and Barty Crouch Jr. killing his dad. I don't know, I'm just saying that maybe Draco will finally be fed up with all of his dad's crap and just...

Kevin: Yeah, but you have to remember Draco's hesitation at trying to kill Dumbledore.

Ben: Right, but that's because he's the only person that Voldemort's ever feared. I mean, I'd be terrified too, even though he didn't have a wand on him, Dumbledore is very powerful and that would be...I'd be scared. [Laughs]

Laura: But still, can't you agree with the fact that there are people who do get brought up by bad parents and throughout the rest of their lives - just because that person is their parent, they can't turn them away ever. So, I can almost see Draco being too scared of his father, even after he's grown up and even after everything has happened and whether or not he's proven himself - I can see him just always being - having this irrational kind of fear of Lucius.

Jess: That's true; however, I think by Book 7, he'll have had enough time to build up the resentment towards his father for putting him in this situation where he had to flee with Snape after not being able to kill Dumbledore and having Snape to do it for him and I think there will at least be a big confrontation between the two of them, no matter what side Draco ends up being on.

Kevin: Me too, yeah.

Lucius, Fudge, and the Ministry

Ben: But, looking back on the earlier books, we talked a little bit earlier in the discussion about how Lucius has sort of become one of - it should be Fudge has become one of Lucius' puppets and basically he has a lot of influence in the Ministry. And it's important to bring up, that especially in Books 3 and 4 where we see Fudge station Dementors around the building - who are known for their loyalty to Voldemort - around Hogwarts and to bring one with him for protection against Barty Crouch Jr. It seems to me like Lucius is another one of Fudge's puppet-masters. After all, who else would want to make sure that the only witness - that Crouch Jr. couldn't testify. And it makes sense that, because we know in Book 4, the Dementor sweeps in, sucks his soul out and that's the end of it. You know that they wanted to make sure they have absolutely all the information extracted from him. Because, imagine how vital of a witness that Barty Crouch Jr. could have been. Doesn't it almost make you think that Fudge could be evil just out of sheer fact that Crouch Jr. - he was involved in this elaborate plan to steal Harry Potter and he knew what the Dark Lord is doing, what his next move is and it just seems stupid to me to kill him.

Laura: I don't think Fudge is evil; I think he is ignorant and I think that he's incompetent. I don't think he had any clue what he was doing when he brought...

Kevin: Yeah, I don't think he's evil either.

Laura: ...the Dementor in with him. I think...

Ben: And do you think that Lucius is the reason that he did it, though?

Laura: Yes, I think he is. I think he...

Jess: Yes.

Laura: ...absolutely is. Because if they had been able to make Crouch Jr. testify, then everything would have been out in the open so much earlier. And, I can completely 100 percent see Lucius saying, "He's a dangerous Death Eater, you need to take this Dementor in with you." And who better for a Dementor to obey, but a Death Eater who had been in Voldemort's inner circle to say "Suck out his soul the minute you get in there."

Ben: Mhm. That's definitely true. And we've continually seen Lucius's impact in terms of the Ministry. For example, another tie that could possibly be made - in Book 5, Umbridge mentions that she passed regulation two years ago, the time of Order of the Phoenix, making it nearly impossible for werewolves to find work. And this is right around when Snape let it slip to the Slytherin students that Lupin is a werewolf. All this is going on while Lucius is trying to have Buckbeak executed for school safety. Perhaps Dolores Umbridge wasn't quite as independent with all of her regulations and decrees as she would have liked us to think. So, what do you guys think? Do you think it's possible that Lucius pretty much told Umbridge, "Hey, this might be a good idea to make these regulations?"

Laura: I think that he definitely had a hand in some of the things that she did throughout the course of Book 5, yes. Absolutely.

Kevin: See, the thing is, I don't - I think you're giving him a little too much credit, though. Even on the account of Fudge, I don't think he was the sole reason why Fudge did what he did. You have to remember Fudge is a political figure, and as a political figure, you're also taking pressure from your people and the people don't want to believe that Voldemort is alive again.

Laura: Yeah, but the people also don't want to believe that Lucius Malfoy is a bad guy.

Kevin: Exactly, but I think he planted the seed, but he didn't - he wasn't the sole reason.

Laura: I don't know, I think Lucius definitely took advantage of the fact that Fudge can be used as a pawn so easily.

Ben: Yeah, he's...

Laura: I mean, he's like a pawn in a place of power. It's really scary.

Ben: I just wish we were talking about the character biography for Lucius Malfoy - how he is very manipulating, and he's very cool and calculating in the moves that he makes.

Kevin: Well, that's what I'm saying. He's calculated but you have to remember: even when there is political corruption, the person who is doing the corrupting is usually very discreet. He's planting seeds and he's letting people run with these ideas, but he's not physically manipulating because when it is found out that they were wrong, he would be the person that would get the attention.

Ben: They would - yeah, that's true too. Kevin brings up a good point.

Kevin: So what I'm saying is that I think that Lucius planted seeds around the Ministry, but I do not think that he was...

Ben: The sole...yeah.

Kevin: ...saying...exactly.

Ben: And, another incident that happened in Book 5 was we saw that the two Dementors showed up at Privet Drive and Umbridge took all the credit for it. Do you think Lucius could have played a role in that also? I think we might be accusing him of too much...

Kevin: That's what I'm saying, yeah.

Ben: We know he's a bad guy, but I don't know if it makes sense to blame all the bad things that have happened on that one person. Do you guys think there's any connection, though?

Jess: I think he made many charitable donations to organizations and people other than organized charities, let's just put it that way.

Laura: Yeah, that I could definitely agree with. I can't say that I'm 100 percent either way on Lucius having had a hand in the Dementors coming to Privet Drive. I think it all really depends on how much attention Dementors would have paid to a Ministry official, because we really don't know how good their reasoning process is. I mean, can they tell the difference between someone who is not on the bad side but they're not necessarily good or do they just see it in a very black and white way? Like, "You're not a Death Eater; therefore, I don't obey you." But, I'm really not 100 percent on that, so.

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#244 (November 20th, 2011): For the first time ever, MuggleCast has a DVD commentary! Watch Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part 2 on DVD with us. We'll comment on each and every scene - it's as if we're in your living room watching alongside you!

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