Andrew: What about the point you have in here, Ollivander said Lily was very good at Charm work?
Jamie: Oh, yeah. Well, I read this awhile ago, and he specifically said in the shop that she was extremely good at Charm work, and Iím just wondering if thatís going to feature in Harry, Harryís fight in the final book. Probably not.
Andrew: Well, she was good at Potions, too, and thatís pretty interesting.
Eric: I find it interesting. I would really like to know what Charms is more advanced at. They took a Charms OWL but we haven't actually seen any Charms have we? Since Year One where it was obviously Alohomora and the levitating thing Wingardium Leviosa. That was like the only Charms we'd actually seen, wasn't it? Like where they're - what's the difference between charms, spells, enchantments, hexes, they're just different names to describe a different type of the same thing.
Jamie: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Eric: So, the fact that you could study Charms, I wonder how different Charms is then to studying hexes, studying spells. Things like that.
Eric: So, if Charms requires more eye work...
Ben: Well, the thing about Charms - the thing you were talking about with classifications, I think it starts with spells and then everything fits into spells. You know what I'm saying? It's sort of a tree that sort of works it's way down.
Eric: Yeah, I understand.
Jamie: Can I just come out with a revelation? Oh my god, do you know what I think it is? It's because in Occlumency and whatever the other one is...
Eric: Oh god, wait.
Eric: I think I know where you're going with this.
Jamie: It's 5 a.m. It's 5 a.m. So, I can't even...
Eric: It's midnight you Brit.
Jamie: ...remember who Harry Potter is.
Jamie: Okay, Occlumency you need eye contact. Perhaps there's something there with Snape and Harry and...
Eric: With eyes.
Jamie: Yeah, something like that, and no, no, no, no...
Jamie: I've got it. I've got it. Okay, I'm so excited now. She died to protect Harry. Perhaps she has given him some type of mental barrier, well not mental, but eye barrier against Voldemort's Legilimency. There you go. When he finally fights or something. It's like when you wear contact lenses and a piece of dirt flies into your eye and it just bounces off because you have something protecting your eye.
Eric: Doesn't it get stuck between your eye and your contact forever?
Laura: Yeah. [laughs]
Jamie: Eric, you just completely ruined my analogy now. I hate you.
Ben: Jamie, they already have - Harry and Voldemort already have the connection through the scar, so...
Ben: ...regardless or not of the eyes, eye contact is irrelevant because he...
Jamie: No, it can be stronger.
Ben: ...can still use Occlumency. Yes.
Jamie: It could be stronger with eye contact. So, it's just and idea. It's just an idea.
Eric: It's interesting because if Harry's going to revert - well, Ben said, the connection is through the scar and they said in Book Six that Voldemort was practicing Occlumency against Harry so Harry couldn't pry into his mind, to pry into Voldemort's mind. Not that Harry would want to - just that fact. If they ever have duel and eyes are going to be part of the thing, I kind of see Harry being without his scar or something. That kind of instance because you'd think they'd be able to mentally - that eyes wouldn't be...
Jamie: Yeah, yeah.
Eric: If you're talking about battling Harry in the future with eyes playing importance or significance, I really don't know. I just want to know more about Lily. I think once we know a little bit more about Lily...
Jamie: Yeah, I agree.
Eric: ...that will reveal everything.
Ben: She must have...
Eric: Whether or not she had anything with Snape, or how she ever accepted a bum like James. According to Remus and Sirius, he cleaned himself up, but still. Based on what we saw in the Pensieve in Book Five , I just think she was a smart girl who wouldn't really fall for James, but I don't know.
Laura: He was a 15-year-old boy though. I mean, let's not kid ourselves here, fifteen year old boys can be jerks.
Eric: Yeah, but he was cruel.
Eric: He was really cruel.
Laura: Well, yeah, but you guys are all cruel to each other.
Jamie: No !It's love. It's love cruel. It's love cruel, isn't it Ben?
Laura: Oh, right. Right.
Jamie: It is. We love each other.
Andrew: Rebuttal comes from Crystal, 13 - not a rebuttal but an e-mail comes from Crystal, 13 of Chicago. I was just looking into the MuggleCast box and she had a question about eyes, and she says:
In the Harry Potter books, many people are described of having black or gray eyes. Do people really have black or gray eyes? I suppose gray could just be a really light shade of blue, but I've never seen anyone with black eyes. I'm not sure why I'm asking you, but I'm at the point of insomnia where I'm an odd sort of calm coming over me and I've been listening to MuggleCast for nine straight hours. [Everyone laughs]
Oh, well that's very nice.
Andrew: Could it be that Jo's just... They don't really have black or gray eyes, they have...
Jamie: They've got beetle black eyes. For Hagrid.
Andrew: No, that's just the way...
Ben: Maybe she just describes them as being...
Ben: That's her way of saying they're really dark.
Andrew: Like metaphorically?
Laura: Not to mention - yeah. Have you ever seen anyone with such dark brown eyes they look black?
Ben: Well, my eyes even. The pupil and the little center thing blends in with the whole eye.
Ben: The iris.
Jamie: No, no, that's the circular thing. It's all circular so it doesn't really say anything but...
Jamie: ...the little bits the pupil, then the iris, then it's the white bit - that's the scientific term, the white bit.
Eric: Well, I think the eye thing is just characterization without realism - not necessarily without realism - but if she describes someone with having small black eyes, and beetle black as Hagrid's are, you can sort of picture that even if you've never seen anybody with black eyes. I think just the way it's done, you can understand what somebody with gray eyes would be kind of cool or chilly inside, or something like that.
Jamie: But, Sirius has cold gray eyes, and he's nice.
Eric: Well, he's somber. He's kind of reserved.
Jamie: Yeah, yeah.
Eric: Kind of faded out, from all the years in Azkaban.
Andrew: Should we move on now to our next discussion?
Laura: Yeah, I know that we have been talking about featuring some theories from the Chamber of Secrets forums, and according to Eric we haven't really been doing it...
Andrew: We haven't done it at all.
Eric: I didn't really say that, but...
Laura: Yeah, well you said they were over there with pitchforks and...
Eric: Yeah. [laughs}
Laura: All sorts of nasty things. So I was browsing the forums over there [stumbles on speech] the other day and I can't even talk right now because it's 12 o'clock in the morning and...
Jamie: Sorry, sorry, can I interrupt here and say, Laura, I'm sorry it's 12 o'clock. Why don't you get some sleep?
Jamie: I swear, every single time. Go and have a lay down and I'll stay up all night and I'll come back after you've slept and carry on.
Laura: Okay. All right, all right, all right. Thank you, Jamie. Thank you, Jamie.
Andrew: That's very kind of you, Jamie.
Laura: Now, I was kind of interested about a theory that I saw concerning Godric's Hollow and who was there the night that the Potter's were murdered, and this theory, I think it was a bit iffy but it was interesting all the same. Now, some users have been clever and pointed out how Jo's pretty specific about how the Godric's Hollow scene should be filmed and we didn't see James in that scene, and we didn't really see anyone else in that scene apart from Lily and Voldemort, who was just in a cloak type thing. And in the Prisoner of Azkaban movie, we didn't hear James' voice saying, "Lily take Harry and run." We only heard Lily yelling. Now, some of them think that what could end up happening in Book Seven would be along the same lines that happened in Book Three, where Harry goes back in time to Godric's Hollow and is actually the one telling Lily to take Harry and run. What did you guys think of that?
Eric: I don't like it.
Jamie: Yeah, it's a bit...
Eric: Didn't Dumbledore say something about how many times you would ever have to turn a Time Turner just to go back what, 15 or 17 years?
Eric: 18 years?
Jamie: Really? When did he say that?
Eric: It might not be a thing, but even if they didn't say it, how long would that - can you really go back in time that far and change that much? Is there that power? And also, the thing about not hearing James in the thing in Prisoner of Azkaban...
Eric: We didn't really hear a lot of things in Prisoner of Azkaban the movie.
Laura: No, we really didnít. See, what I didnít really think this theory solved was how Harry would defeat Voldemort. It would just seem like it was a recurring cycle; it wouldnít really solve anything. But at the same time, I find it interesting because if you read Prisoner of Azkaban when Harry says that he saw his dad on the other side of the lake, it was either Remus or Sirius that said, "You saw James," and he got very pale. And if this theory were true, then it would kind of lend itself to the fact that James had survived that night, wouldnít it?
Eric: I think actually James - I think JK Rowling shot down the idea that James was still alive.
Laura: I think she did, too, but I find it interesting because she was so specific about how that scene should be filmed. I think that she really put a lot of time into making sure that they did it right, and I find it interesting that we didnít see him in that scene...
Laura: ...and we didnít see anyone else.
Eric: Youíve got to understand whoís telling the story as well, and you know, whereas we did see Voldemort entering the house, we only really needed to understand what happened with his mother and him at the time, and JKR was very specific with how that scene was filmed, apparently. I mean, thatís the rumor, but thereís also part of when the camera spins you can almost see...
Eric: ...another figure. People think thatís Snape. You know, in the movie, like things in the background and stuff. Thereís like a shadow present, things like that.
Ben: But, honestly, guys, donít you think that Lily would have...
Ben: ...pleaded with Severus if she knew that he sort of had a soft spot for her? Wouldnít you think that we would have actually heard a mention of Severus, rather than just the pleading with, "Donít kill me - take me, not my son"?
Andrew: Youíre saying, Ben, she would be able to influence him, because Snape was...
Ben: Well, I think we would - Harry, in the brief recollection that he has of his parents being killed, that when his motherís pleading, youíd hear plead with Snape, not just Voldemort.
Laura: Yeah, but itís also - itís also just that: itís a brief recollection. Itís not the entire occurrence. She could have pleaded with Snape, but I donít know. For some reason, Iím not sure if I could see her doing that...
Laura: ...just because of her attitude towards him in the Pensieve scene.
Eric: I can compare Lily to Ginny. I think Lily and Ginny are very similar in the way that they are women who understand the tasks set upon them, the dangers therein. At least, thatís who Ginny is now. I think if Lily happened to see Snape there, she would nod to him and give him the look of utmost disappointment, but I guess she would accept that he was there, or something along those lines. I donít know.
Laura: Yeah, but even if she did plead with Snape that wasnít going to stop Voldemort.
Ben: Iím paranoid. Iím glancing out my mirror.
[Andrew and Laura laugh]
Jamie: Do you hear a siren, Ben?
Eric: Yeah, James is definitely dead. I remember now. Itís because there was a theory running that James and Lupin had actually switched bodies prior to Jamesís death.
Laura: Oh, yes! [groans and laughs]
Eric: Actually, a decently thought out...
Laura: I remember that one.
Eric: ...plotline, but it was very clever.
Laura: I donít know. Iíve never - Iíve never bought into the idea that the Potters were alive, really.
Eric: See, thatís the thing. You know, Jo said in her response, I believe itís even on her website, she said something like, "Brilliant theory." I mean, that was the first thing she said, "but, no, James would never abandon his family at a time of death..."
Jamie: Of course he did.
Eric: "...and he died with them." Yeah, he died with them is pretty much what she said. So, you know, and I donít know how he would go on living and watching Harry, or letting Harry be with the Dursleys and all that stuff.
Laura: Mhm. I agree.
Eric: So, I think heís still dead.
Jamie: I concur, too.
Eric: But, you know, thatís not to say that I donít find it incredibly weird how certain Harry was that he saw his father on the lake that night. But then, that was supposed to emphasize just how much like James Harry looked, or something crazy like that.
Jamie: Precisely. Yeah, yeah. Thatís it.
Eric: I donít know. But it seemed really awkward...
Eric: ...like it didnít really fit there.
Laura: Well, how did they not match up, Eric?
Eric: Itís kind of like, okay: you can see that she was just trying to draw similarities between Harry and James, but Harry was, like, beyond certain that it wasnít... I donít know. Maybe itís a sign of his immaturity or inability to grasp that it was indeed him. Maybe itís his inability to get with the picture and understand things entirely, but he was a little bit, I donít know. I think there was something going on there, about that night, and about Dumbledore and how he acted that night. That whole night, they went back in time, I really think that there was just something else there that wasnít really - I mean, Iíll accept that itís Harry, you know, who thought that Harry was Prongs or whatever, but there just seemed to be so much extra stuff that might come in place later. You know? The similarities drawn between Harry and James were brought up again and brought up again, but so were Harryís eyes, with his parents. Itís just like any of his lineage is - seems to be emphasized throughout the books: his parents, his love for his parents, which might, again, be love. So, what does that mean, you know?
Laura: Wouldnít you agree, thought, that he might have thought it was his dad because of how powerful the Patronus was? Maybe he thought he couldnít conjure one?
Eric: It could be that.
Laura: A powerful one?
Eric: It could be the lack of confidence in that, but he... I donít know. Itís just interesting how certain he was, how wrong he was, apparently. I think James is dead, donít get me wrong. I just think there might be something else really weird going on there, and I canít really explain it. But, itís kind of like Dumbledore says, "Those we love never truly leave us," and Harry really wanted to see his father; at least, he really wanted help, and something in the form - what appeared to him as his father, but it turned out just to be him.
Ben: Well, the fact that the Patronus was a stag, and that was his dadís Anim - Animag [stumbling] Animagus form.
Eric: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Eric: Right. Thatís why itís brilliant. Thatís a good point. Thank you.
Ben: Iím sorry, guys, Iím not talking very much. Iím melting. I am melting.
Andrew: I donít believe you, Ben. Thatís almost impossible.
Ben: I will take a picture of...
Ben: I will take a picture of myself with Photo Booth.
Eric: [to Ben] It is. [laughs]
Andrew: Can you? Can you please, right now? [laughs]
Ben: Yes, right now.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: Do it.
Ben: And we will put it up on...
Andrew: Can we use it as the show title, Laura?
Eric: Ben melting!
Andrew: For those who subscribe via iTunes?
Eric: Ben melting!
Ben: Sure. Here, Iíll turn up my screen up to full brightness now.
Andrew: Oh, this is going to be fun.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Ben: This is disgusting.
Ben: You canít see anything, really.
Andrew: Ben, do you have your MuggleCast t-shirt on?
Ben: [laughs] I do, actually!
Andrew: Oh, this is perfect! [laughs]
Ben: I think I got enough punishment, though. If a police officer comes up here...
Ben: ... and heís like, "Youíre coming in," Iíd be like, "Thank god! Is there air conditioning in the building?"
[Andrew, Eric, and Laura laugh]
Ben: Anything to get out of this car!
Andrew: Listen, you have to promise me that if they come up, youíve got to keep recording [laughs]. We need that!
Ben: Okay, I will.
[Eric and Laura laugh]
Andrew: No you won't. Thatís silly. What town are you in?
Eric: MuggleCast 50: Live from Jail!
Ben: Alma, Nebraska.
Andrew: All right. Let me Local Google or Google Local and get the number there... [laughs]
Laura: Yeah, letís get their number.
Andrew: ... and call the police station!
Jamie: Ben, how do you spell that name?
Ben: A - L - M - A, Nebraska.
Jamie: Okay. The first person to write in and tell us the population...
Jamie: ... of Alma, Nebraska, wins a free t-shirt.
Andrew: [laughs] Okay! Heís not joking, either.
Jamie: E-mail... Yeah, no, Iím not joking. Seriously.
Laura: Because Jamieís going to pay for it for you.
Jamie: So, e-mail Ben and...
Eric: The correct population [laughs].
Jamie: Yeah, well, weíve got to go and count them, so it might take a while to send you a t-shirt, but it will be fine.
Ben: E-mail... E-mail...
Jamie: E-mail jamie at staff dot mugglenet dot com with your answer.
Jamie: First person gets a free t-shirt.
Andrew: If you already have a t-shirt, donít - donít play.
Andrew: Well, we've got a few voicemails this week. A little update on the co host. Kevin is not here because he's sick. E-mail Kevin at staff. He'll never read his e-mail, but send it anyway and in another year I'm sure...
Ben: [imitates Kevin] Kevin...
Jamie: [imitates Kevin] No! That is insulting, Andrew! I always read it! Fifteen times a minute!
Andrew: [laughs] And Micah is also out. He's socializing in New York City. All right, let's move on to this week's voice mails?
[Audio]: Hey guys. This is Adam from Tennessee. I just wanted to say that I love the show, and do you guys really think that Harry's going to want to become an Auror after he defeats Voldemort? I mean, he would have gone through this seven-year battle with him. I mean, wouldn't he just want to have some kind or fun or something? Just wanted to know what you guys thought. Anyway, bye.
Ben: I just finished rereading Half-Blood Prince not too long ago, and in the opening chapters Harry's thinking about what he wants to do for a career, and he's very excited because Professor McGonagall lets him in to Potions because there is a new Potions Master, Professor Slughorn, and he started thinking about his future, and he said that there's nothing else that he'd really want to do, so...
Andrew: Besides Potions?
Ben: No, besides becoming and Auror.
Andrew: Oh, okay.
Ben: So, if he could defeat Voldemort, then all these other people would be just child's play, wouldn't they?
Laura: I don't know.
Andrew: Yeah. You would think so.
Ben: So, it's not like... I doubt he wants to... You know the rich and the famous, they still want to be productive. It's not like just because he defeats Voldemort, he's not going to sit around and lounge all the time, just because he beat Voldemort.
Laura: I think he'll have had enough after he defeats Voldemort.
Jamie: I think he'll want to go...
Laura: I think he will.
Jamie: You know...
Eric: No, he - I don't think he'll have had enough.
Jamie: What's he got a no-defeating-dark-wizards fetish?
Andrew: Why, Laura?
Laura: No, it's not that! It's because he's already spent his whole life this far, not only risking his life...
Jamie: I agree with you. No, I agree.
Laura: ...but the lives of everyone who loves him.
Eric: But that's what he does.
Laura: He'll want to get... Yeah, but he doesn't want that. We saw that from the sixth book. He had to dump his girlfriend because he's afraid for her safety.
Laura: He's going to want to be able to settle down with people.
Ben: Yeah, but he didn't really dump her.
Laura: That doesn't matter! That doesn't matter! He still did it because he feels like he had to protect her, and he's going to want to settle down and live a quiet life with the people he loves. That's what he's going to want.
Jamie: I agree. He said in - I think it was Order of the Phoenix or Half-blood Prince. No, it was after he got his O.W.L results. He said that surely the best choice, and the best chance of him defeating Voldemort is to become one of the dark wizard catchers that are trained to find and kill him. So, I think yeah, he'll do it for that because he wants to have the best chance, but it's just like afterward he isn't needed to defeat normal dark wizards, if that makes any sense. The Aurors can do that. He wants to... His task is to finish Voldemort. You don't see Frodo, after he's finished off with the one ring, going and getting a load of other rings and doing it.
Jamie: It's just his task and he's finished it. So, I think that's going to be the end after that.
Eric: I understand...
Ben: Guys, I hate to interrupt, but I really have to go.
Ben: I'm needed back at the house. My grandparents' house. So...
Andrew: All right.
Ben: I really enjoyed my time with you guys. I'm excited to leave because I get to go to air conditioning.
Ben: And I don't have to worry about getting caught anymore.
Ben: But I have had the best luck on the street tonight. This is [sings] Where the streets have no name!
Andrew: Can you plug the street? Do you know what street your on? Can we thank those people?
Jamie: Can I just repeat what Ben's just said?
Jamie: Ben's had the best luck on the street tonight.
Ben: I have! No one has turned down this street. So, thanks people...
Jamie: Was she good?
Andrew: What street is it, Ben?
Ben: Here, I'll start my car right now.
[Car engine starting noises]
Laura: We get to listen to Ben's car.
Eric: That sounds like a Chevy.
Andrew: Oh boy.
Jamie: [sings] Take me down to the paradise city where the grass is green and the girls are pretty.
Ben: No. It's a Pontiac. I'm in motion right now. [Car driving noises]
Andrew: He's going to lose his connection.
Ben: No. It's getting stronger, actually.
Eric: You're driving towards the house. Ben, go towards the house.
Andrew: Oh boy. [laughs] All this...
Eric: Go in to the house.
Laura: Let's see how long Ben can drive around before...
Andrew: It sounds like a nice car.
Laura: ...he loses his connection.
Jamie: He just downloaded Pontiac sounds off of Google, and he's playing them now.
Eric: Yeah, I'm in a car right now.
Ben: Yes, Jamie.
Jamie: He's really in a 15-year-old passion wagon.
Andrew: Sounds like a nice car.
Ben: I am on First Street. Thanks to the people of First Street in Alma, Nebraska for providing me with internet tonight so I can record MuggleCast.
Andrew: Oh wonderful. Wonderful.
Ben: So, everyone send your thanks...
Laura: I'm sure they're going to enjoy the fact that you told everyone where they lived.
Ben: Yeah. So, if you ever need free wi-fi, come down to Nebraska.
Ben: And so we're going to have one last drive away with me. We're going to drive away until my internet dies. So, this is the last you'll hear of me, people.
Ben: I'm driving with a laptop on my lap. My seat's halfway laying down, and the light in this house next to me just turned on. They're probably wondering who...
Jamie: Ben, do you have any comment about the difficulty of being yourself?
Ben: It is rough being Ben Schoen. Getting chased around...
Andrew: Ben, is this a dirt road your on?
Ben: No, no. And I'm passing Kennedy Street...
Ben: ...and I'm losing my signal. So, goodnight guys! Thanks for having me on the show.
Eric: He's going.
Jamie: He's losing it.
Eric: Bye Ben!
Laura: Bye Ben.
Andrew: Ah, and there he goes.
Jamie: If you grab the defibrillator we might just be able to save him just in time.
Andrew: Like the dork that I am, I've could follow him on Google Map. So that was very nice, and once again we thank the people of First street in beautiful Alma Nebraska. It is a very nice neighborhood.
Andrew: [laughs] We hope to podcast from there again some time in the near future.
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