Contacting Sirius

Jamie: No, but it leads into: Will it contact Sirius from beyond the grave?

Eric: Depends, if he had his mirror with him. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah. In the book...

[Jamie, Eric, and Laura laugh]

Eric: Is that a mirror in your pocket?

Jamie: That's awesome I didn't even consider that.

Laura: In Order of the Phoenix, didn't it say something along the lines of "Harry said it wouldn't work because Sirius didn't have his mirror with him when he fell through the veil"?

Jamie: Yeah, he's like "Excuse me, Bellatrix, do you think you could you just wait one second?"

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: "I have to go and get my mirror."

Ben: Hold on, hold on though. Wouldn't - I was under the impression that these mirrors were tiny and they could fit into your pocket. I didn't think they were ones that you hold in your hand. When I thought of a Two-Way Mirror...

Eric: Well, you have to put it in your pocket from your hand, Ben.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: They're like, hand-held, but they're not huge is what I think we're saying. Like they are pocket - they are pocket mirrors.

Jamie: I think they probably are. But, so yeah. I think we've got to conclude there that he [laughs] could contact Sirius from beyond the grave...if he's got his mirror with him.

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Well, that's the question. Why did Sirius - do you guys remember this?

Laura: That's kind of gross.

Eric: Did he just walk out? Was he just tired of waiting? Like, how did he get to the Department of Mysteries?

Laura: He came with the rest of the Order.

Eric: Oh, he came with the rest. Because they... Yeah. Okay. So...

Jamie: He got a bus.

Eric: Right.

[Eric and Laura laugh]

Eric: No, the Knight Bus, though, you know Stan Shunpike is mentioned in every book since Book Three?

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah?

Eric: That's just one of those other weird things.

Andrew: That's not every book.

Eric: It is every book.

Laura: Every book since Book Three.

Andrew: Since Book Three.

Eric: Since Book Three. It's, you know...

Andrew: So what?

Eric: Well, that's just one of those...

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: It's like Aberforth – somebody sent in a rebuttal to me saying that Aberforth was hinted at since Book Four, and I think, well, Stan Shunpike is the same way, and these things are leading somewhere, obviously.

Jamie: Perhaps.

Andrew: Yes.

Breaking of the Mirror Symbolic?

Jamie: Yeah. Okay, question number eight, now. I think we're going backwards. Is the breaking of the mirror symbolic?

Eric: Yes, because seven years bad luck...

Ben: Seven years of bad luck...

Laura: ... Bad luck [laughs]...

Eric: It's the seven years bad luck, and it's the seven years of Harry Potter.

Jamie: Seven years of bad luck? It's a bit late isn't it? Him breaking it in Book Sox.

Laura: [laughs] That's true.

[Laura and Eric laugh]

Jamie: Should've broken it in Book Once. But, yeah, because it was kind of – I can't remember exactly, because I haven't read it for a while, but didn't he break it and Jo wrote a sort of purging of emotion there, that he sort of, he broke it and then that was it. And then, you know? I don't know.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: I don't know how to say it. Like a kind of, "Harry threw the mirror, it broke into a thousand pieces, and he stood there staring into space, thinking, 'What am I going to do with my life?'.....like that.

Andrew: Does anyone know where in the book it is? Because I have the book.

Laura: It's in...

Jamie: The end, presumably.

Ben: Order of the Phoenix.

Laura: Yeah, it's...

Andrew: No, I know that.

Laura: It's in...

[Ben laughs]

Laura: ...the very last chapter, I think.

Jamie: It's before Sirius dies. He breaks the mirror because Sirius has died, before he dies. [mutters] Andrew, just go before it, quickly.

Laura: [laughs] What?

Andrew: No I...

Eric: Hang on.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: [laughs] I love being stupid.

Andrew: Wait, it's in the last... Oh.

Laura: Yeah, it's right before he goes and finds Luna, and she's saying that all these people stole her stuff.

Eric: "He looked around to make sure there was nobody else there. The dormitory was quite empty. He looked back to the mirror, raised it in front of his face, with trembling hands and said, loudly and clearly, 'Sirius.' His breath misted the surface of the glass. He held the mirror even closer, excitement flooding through him, but the eyes blinking back at him through the fog were definitely his own. He wiped the mirror clean again, said till every syllable rang clearly through the room, 'Sirius Black.' Nothing happened. The frustrated face looking back out of the mirror was still definitely his own. 'Sirius didn't have his mirror on him when he went through that archway,' said a small voice in Harry's head. 'That's why it's not working.'"

Eric: Well he doesn't know that for sure, but...

Ben: Well, what Harry's going to do, is he's going to go to the veil and just throw...

Laura: Just throw in the mirror...

Eric: Throw in the mirror.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Mirror. Turn this on, loser. You forgot this.

Jamie: No, no – he calls...

Eric: He says, Sirius, you forgot this. You forgot your mirror.

Jamie: [laughs] He calls Sirius Black and it goes, "I'm sorry, the person you are calling is dead."

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: [imitates telephone's unrecognized number tone] "The person you are calling is beyond the veil right now."

Jamie: "The person you are calling is dead."

Andrew: It goes on to say, "Disappointment was burning in his throat. He got up and began throwing his things pell..." Pell-mell? Never heard of that.

Laura: Pell-mell. [laughs]

Andrew: "...into the trunk, on top of the broken mirror."

Eric: "Then an idea struck him. A better idea than the mirror."

Andrew: [laughs] Is this popcorn reading?

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Eric: [laughs] Yes, it is popcorn reading. I'm glad – it's good use of the term, too. You understand it. That's good. At least if you're going to make fun of it.

Andrew: Yeah, I know. I did it when I was in, like, fifth grade.

Eric: Okay, good. More importantly...

Jamie: That's the end of our main questions.

Andrew: [sighs] So...

Eric: Hurdle across to – hang on. Wait!

Andrew: So, really, Harry is just assuming that it's...

Jamie: That, er...

Andrew: ...that he doesn't have the mirror with him.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: So, potentially, he could still have the mirror with him.

Jamie: He could do. That's if he is still alive, of course. It'd be quite hard to work it if he's dead.

Eric: "He just hurled the mirror back into the trunk, where it shattered. He had been..." Wait! "He had been convinced for a whole shining minute that he was going to see Sirius, talk to him again." Isn't this like being convinced for a whole couple of minutes that he is going to live with Sirius?

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: That's a good...

Ben: It's almost like when he was convinced for a couple minutes that he saw his dad.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: That's true.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: That's actually true.

Jamie: It's all these moments of...

Eric: All these moments of false happiness.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: That one can only just have, you know?

Jamie: Pickle.

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: Pickle.

What If...Harry Had Used The Two-Way Mirror

Jamie: So, I think we have covered the further questions in the main questions, really. So, should we go on to "What if?" Okay. What would have happened if Harry had used the two-way mirror and spoken to Sirius? Would Sirius still be alive? And would the prophecy have been smashed? And would all of Dumbledore's stuff have been chucked about and [laughs] – and, smashed, or what?

Eric: [laughs] I think – it's a question, because I think he would have gotten a direct line to Sirius through the mirror. He wouldn't have had to – he wouldn't have believed Kreacher that he was gone, and that kind of stuff. So, obviously they wouldn't have that confrontation, but you struggle to think that in times of – in situations would Harry have really thought to use the mirror? But...

Jamie: Well, exactly. Yeah.

Eric: Once as he thought to search for Kreacher, when he went through the fireplace, or whatever, for that, so it only makes sense that he would've thought of the mirror, if he knew what it was, and probably used it. So, I'm inclined to say he would have found Sirius would be all right. But then that's the other question: can really – so much happened that night, it was just like. Eventually I think they would have had to wind up at the Department of Mysteries, the question is: would Sirius be dead?

Jamie: No. Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: That's true, too. Considering he didn't take it with him.

Jamie: It's just like a cell phone. It's just like a cell phone. It rings and you take it out, but instead of putting it to your ear you just stare into it.

Andrew: Yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: It's like Skype video.

Jamie: Yeah, it is.

Eric: No, just staring at it would do the trick.

The Guilt

Jamie: Yeah, it would. Okay, "What if" number two: Will Harry's guilt over not using it impact events in Book Seven? Already talked about that.

Andrew: He has guilt over a lot of things.

Jamie: Laura you think it will, right?

Eric: I think all of his emotions will just work in Book Seven. It's... You know?

Jamie: Laura, you had a good point about this before. That it isn't his fault that Sirius died, but it's going to...

Laura: Well, yeah. It's going to add to his motivation to succeed...

Eric: Yeah, just as long as no one's saying...

Laura: ...to avenge Sirius.

Eric: As long as no one's saying, "Give yourself to the dark side", I'll be okay reading Book Seven.

Laura: What?

Repairing The Mirror To Contact Sirius

Andrew: So, let's draw some conclusions here. Could Harry possibly repair his mirror in order to recontact Sirius?

Jamie: Yes.

Eric: Yes.

Andrew: Because JK Rowling has made it clear that... Okay.

Laura: Sure.

Ben: ...things can be repaired...

Jamie: It's just like a thousand piece puzzle...

Andrew: It could appear in Book Seven again...

Eric: God, when does that – oh, wait! That's another thing: the Ford Anglia. That's why Harry has to go back to Hogwarts, because that thing is still in the forest, and we need to see it again.

Jamie: Yeah, yeah.

Ben: Okay, whatever.

Jamie: [laughs] Okay, go on Andrew, do you want to move onto dating?

MuggleCast Dating Service

Andrew: [laughs] Sure, let's move on now to the MuggleCast Dating Service. You know...

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: ...it has been a pretty surprising success, and we're trying to get a couple of people together on dates, and [in weird, deep voice] I don't want to spoil the surprise.

[Laura and Andrew laugh]

Andrew: But I'll tell you right now it's going to be a whole lot of dating.

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: But... So we'll have another update on the dating service next week, because we're trying to get some cute little relationships worked out.

Discussing Chapter-by-Chapter

Eric: Next Sunday. Eleven days.

Andrew: So...

Eric: Yeah, I was thinking about that. How's the first week in October for everybody?

Jamie: Sounds fine.

Laura: Sounds good to me.

Eric: But...

Andrew: [in high pitched voice] Good. Yay, pickle!

Eric: But, but, but, but you guys have got to agree that it's going to have a structure. I'm going to be doing this outline, we're all going to agree on it, and we're all going to participate. Is that correct?

Jamie: As long as we don't – as long as it doesn't take half an hour, yeah. Because it...

Eric: Okay.

Jamie: I think it is very good when it doesn't drag out. When it drags out it gets old very quickly. So I think we...

Eric: Well, yeah.

Andrew: That's why it's got to get structured.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: So as I said, each of these has a different feel to it. Each of them will need a different outline that suits the book.

Jamie: Okay, fair enough.

Debate: Should Hogwarts Stay Open?

Andrew: Okay, so we are going to do a brand new segment this week, which we've been actually thinking about for a while. We don't even have a title for this new segment this week, so we're just going to call it Debate. Ben, why don't you explain this new segment?

Ben: Well a long, long time ago I said...

Jamie: In a galaxy far, far away.

Eric: Far away.

Ben: ...Far, far away. Everyone knows me as the debate guy, I'm on my high school's debate team, kind of won State last year, you know?

Laura: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ben: So I thought, "Let's have a Harry Potter debate." Here is how it works. Each week we're going to be debating a resolution and those of you who participate in high school debate will know what I'm talking about, but anyways, this week, for example, is going to be...

Andrew: [laughs] Anyone who doesn't is screwed.

[Jamie and Eric laugh]

Ben: ...Hogwarts. Just listen, just listen. This week is going to be "Hogwarts should be open for Harry's seventh year." Okay? There will be an affirmative team, which affirms resolution, which argues, saying that Hogwarts should be open. And on that side, this week, is going to be Jamie and myself. And then there will be the negative team which says Hogwarts shouldn't be open, which is Eric and Laura. And something that I need to remind everybody of – everyone that is arguing, Andrew who is going to be our judge, and the people listening to the show: it is not an argument over whether or not Hogwarts will be open, it's an argument whether or not Hogwarts should be open, which definitely opens it up to a lot of interpretation.

And so here is the format: the affirmative team, Jamie and myself, gets two minutes to present our case uninterrupted. The negative team will get two minutes to do the same. Following that there will be five to ten minutes of open discussion, where each side will get to ask each other questions and respond openly to each other's arguments. Then at the end each side, starting with the affirmative, will get one minute to tell you why you should vote for them. Andrew, who is going to be our judge, will decide who he thinks should win the round, and this will count for 25 percent of the vote. The other 75 percent of the vote will be based off the listeners, with a poll on mugglecast dot com. So, is everybody ready?

Laura: Sort of.

Jamie: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew: Yay!

Ben: Sort of? This is intense.

Jamie: You go first, Benjamin, because you've...

Eric: We're kind of... [laughs]

Jamie: ...dusted before and we haven't dusted.

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: Andrew, Andrew are you timing?

Andrew: Yeah, let me get up a clock. Okay, ready, set, go!

Ben: Okay. The first reason that they should keep Hogwarts open is because of safety. Because Hogwarts is this big safe haven where everyone can meet up, and if we have all these people and all the children in one place, particularly the protection of minors, we'll be able to keep them safe from the Death Eaters, particularly if we have the Aurors stationed around.

The second main reason that we should keep Hogwarts open, is because by closing Hogwarts it is essentially admitting defeat. It's letting the bad guys win. So, it's quite clear that we should keep Hogwarts open for those two reasons. Specifically ,the safety, and because it would be admitting defeat. Like in the war on terrorism, if we were all to go and become hermits and hide in our houses, it just wouldn't make sense because it would be like saying the terrorists win. And so, the people at Hogwarts, the Board of Governors, should not let the Death Eaters win. Now, go Jamie!

Jamie: Also it should be kept open because education will always remain important. However many wars there have been, there will still be children, there will still be children who will become adults. Everyone needs to be educated. You cannot – the war is important, it's going on now, we have to win. However, Hogwarts has survived a thousand years, and it can survive a thousand more. And children still need to be educated all the time, so it has to remain open for that reason.

Ben: How long was that?

Eric: You guys have forty seconds left.

Andrew: A minute.

Jamie: Forty seconds left?

Ben: Forty seconds left? Oh, lets keep talking then.

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: They have to be fools to close Hogwarts, just think about it.

Andrew: Thirty.

Ben: We have to be able to keep Hogwarts open because it's a safe haven for everybody. Just think about it; why would you close down this educational facility...

Jamie: It's a stronghold.

Ben: ...when the next generation is going to be...

Jamie: Ben, Ben, it's a stronghold, isn't it?

Ben: Yeah. Especially ,during times of war. Parents...

Andrew: Ten.

Ben: ... don't have time to home school their students, their kids, so they'll have to send them to Hogwarts, and it makes the most sense. Hogwarts needs to stay open...

Andrew: Three.

Ben: ...and it should stay open.

Andrew: Two.

Jamie: Amen, brother.

Andrew: One. Okay.

Eric: That ended nicely.

Andrew: Argument from the...

Laura: Oh, hang on two seconds.

Andrew: ...what was it called again? Negative side.

Laura: My only thing is that mine comes across as saying that it won't be – I mean, I'm going to try to make it make as much sense as humanly possible. But, whatever.

Andrew: When you're ready.

Laura: At the end of Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince, readers discover that they will not be seeing Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry again – at least not through Harry's eyes. Unfortunately, it is doubtful that Hogwarts will be seen as a learning institution, at all in the final book of the series. Despite Professor Sprout's unabashed optimism that if even one student wanted to learn, the school should remain open, it is not possible for Hogwarts to continue providing a formal education as it has been. The leading cause of this is the ongoing war outside the school's walls. It must be remembered that war does not just affect people personally; businesses fail and economies struggle. Ollivander won't be the first or last shop owner to disappear from Diagon Alley, so it's not as if students can just stroll down the streets to the usual locations in order to buy books and supplies. Now that the wizarding world at large is taking Voldemort's return seriously, parents won't be looking forward to sending their children back to school, particularly after it was infiltrated by Death Eaters.

During times of war, people tiptoe. They don't make large financial decisions, and education in a boarding school setting is going to take a backseat until Voldemort is rid of. That's not to say that the Ministry won't provide some sort of home study program in order to supplement students. A struggling economy does not lend itself to allow a small number of students to populate a large school such as Hogwarts. Besides, several of the Hogwarts teachers are Order members, and especially after Dumbledore's death, they are needed now more than ever to continue the fight against Voldemort. Most people will be torn between two decisions: wanting to remain safe, or wanting to do their part to help in the war. It will be a very small number of students who wish to remain inside the school walls, while battles rage on outside of them. So, while it's nice to daydream about the little school that could, Hogwarts should not facilitate an educational system during the course of the seventh Harry Potter novel because it can't. [chokes] Thank you. [laughs] I just choked.

Eric: Oh my god.

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: That was...

Eric: I just, okay, I have fifteen seconds to say, Laura. That was absolutely brilliant. Any doubts I had that our side might actually do good have been completely vanquished, and that is just amazing. Thank you. Three seconds to go. You saved my butt. Thank you so much. Winning team!

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: Laura, I'm going to grill you harder than a well-done steak in a...

[Laura and Andrew laugh]

Andrew: Now, it's time for the open discussion.

Ben: Okay.

Andrew: Go ahead.

Ben: Okay, I'll start this off. Okay, Laura, you bring up the point that it's not possible for Hogwarts to provide education, and that there's an ongoing war outside of Hogwarts walls, and then you go on to mention that businesses and economies fail during times of war. However, isn't it important to provide education for the students who are going to Hogwarts, now, to prevent future businesses and economies from failing?

Eric: Well, who said it takes intelligence to run business?

Laura: Yeah, exactly. And the thing is, while...

Ben: No, but it's the same thing... It's...

Laura: ...this is...

Ben: It's the same thing with our generation. If you don't get your education now, you're not going to be able to become a productive member of society.

Eric: That's what the people say who...

Ben: You're less likely to.

Laura: That's not true. That's absolutely...

Ben: You are definitely...

Laura: ...not true.

Ben: Okay, look at the trends in society. Those who are more educated have higher salaries and are much more likely to become productive members of society. Don't even tell me for one second that if these kids stay at home and don't get their education, that they're going to help out in some way.

Laura: But that's not true. They can get their education at home. They absolutely can get their education at home.

Jamie: Aren't we missing the vital point that, World War I, school stayed open. World War II, school stayed open. Even in world wars, you can't lose sight of the fact that it's a generational conflict. It isn't... Until nuclear stuff comes out, and I don't think Voldemort's going to drop an H bomb on Hogwarts, you know? Until we've got mutually assured destruction in the wizarding world, there's still going to be a generation after. There still is going to be... You still have to educate the masses. You can't just stop providing welfare for this. That's completely ignoring the fact that Hogwarts is the safest place in the wizarding world for things. It would be like immorally abandoning the children.

Eric: Is it that Dumbledore's dead?

Laura: Is it anymore, though? Dumbledore's dead.

Ben: No, but that doesn't matter. Okay, what you have to weigh is, where are the students going to be safer?

Laura: It does matter...

Ben: No, listen. Where are the students going to be safer? At Hogwarts, where they can be under the protection of the Ministry of Magic, or at home, when...

Eric: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Jamie: And the teachers. And the teachers, as well...

Eric: The Minister is going to protect Hogwarts, first of all. And second of all...

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: ...I actually think in their homes is safer, in some ways, because Hogwarts is a single target. If you want to go after Hogwarts, now that Dumbledore is gone...

Jamie: Stronger united than we are divided, Eric.

Eric: Yeah, well, no, that's true, but in their separate little homes, Voldemort's not going to go knocking at everybody's door until the very end, where eventually everything will eclipse, and people can't escape. But I'm saying, if want to go and destroy Hogwarts, you might be able to do it if you're Voldemort, now, because Dumbledore is dead. So, if everybody – if all the students and everything are at Hogwarts, and Voldemort tries to take Hogwarts, it might be slightly easier than if they're all in their little homes and villages as far away as Suffolk, and, you know?

[Jamie laughs]

Laura: Exactly. The Ministry is not going to want to have to protect such a large target.

Eric: But I think it'll be easier to protect.

Jamie: I still think it's the safest place to be, though. At home, you're all – you're so disunited there, you've still got all the teachers there. If you think teachers are going to be possibly the best wizards and witches, they're the people who teach the students, you know? I just think that I would rather be there, living in a castle that's protected by enchantments, living in a castle under the eye of teachers, living in a castle that has protection I don't even know about, living in a place where we're all together. You know?

Laura: Yeah, where Voldemort knows where you are.

Jamie: But he'd know where you are, anyway. He'd just goes to a house and says he's going to be a...

Laura: Not if you went into hiding.

Jamie: Oh, right. Well, fine. Fine.

Ben: So you're still...

Jamie: We'll build a nuclear bunker then, and go down there, and...

Laura: Hey, people do it. People do it.

Eric: The problem with hiding – that's the thing is these students aren't going to be the ones fighting the war, which is why I think it's okay for them to go home, go into their homes...

Jamie: Okay, Eric.

Eric: ...and be okay, because it's not like you're hiding and waiting for Voldemort to take over, because in certain ways these students would just be students of learning. I think learning is very important, but, at the same time, the people who are fighting the war against Voldemort will be the ones who make the advancements, will be the ones who stop him. And, actually, going into hiding isn't necessarily letting the bad guys win, in this case...

Ben: Yes, it is.

Jamie: It is.

Laura: No, it's not.

Ben: It totally is. Listen...

Eric: The people who were fighting Voldemort will remain fighting Voldemort. They aren't the ones who will go into their homes. The people who are going into their homes...

Ben: I know, but when something begins to – when you let it affect the everyday lives of your citizens, is when you let the bad guys win.

Jamie: Exactly. You're completely admitting defeat when, you know, when you do that. After this war is over – and it will end, obviously – there are going to be children having no direction, nowhere to go. I'm sure if – especially, I doubt that every other wizarding school in the world is going to close down. You can't – one school closes down...

Laura: Yeah, but is every other...

Jamie: ...it's going to look terrible, as well.

Laura: Is every other wizarding school in the world such a big target as Hogwarts is? Because it's been said from day one...

Jamie: They're still centers. They're still centers.

Laura: ...that Voldemort would take over Hogwarts... No, it's been said from day one that Voldemort would take over Hogwarts and turn it into a school of the Dark Arts if Dumbledore wasn't there.

Jamie: But if they close down Hogwarts...

Ben: But I think it's important...

Jamie: ...then he'll take it, anyway. It's like giving it to him. They might as well wrap it in a...

Laura: Yeah, but at least then he doesn't have a school full of students to take over.

Jamie: But then he has it permanently. He has it permanently.

Ben: Okay, something else that's important to point out is that there is no other alternative to education. Home...

Laura: That's not true.

Ben: Home study programs – what do you do? No, it's been proven that they have to have some instruction how to do these spells. You can't get everything from just reading a book. That's not how it works, and when you have parents who are off working, you can't just give the children a book to read at home and expect them to be able to just do magic right away. They have to have a place to get their education, and it makes sense for Hogwarts to stay open. As Jamie said before, Voldemort is only the worst wizard in the past hundred years and Hogwarts has been open for thousands of years, so it's been open through previous wars. It doesn't make sense to close it just because of the fact that Voldemort's out on the run. That's admitting defeat. That's saying we should all go hide inside of our homes...

Jamie: Exactly.

Laura: It's not. It's absolutely not.

Ben: No, it is. No, it is. I'm drawing the parallel of 9/11 again, but after the terrorist attacks, it'd be like saying we shouldn't have football games because all these people are...

Jamie: We shouldn't fly in planes as well. We shouldn't fly in planes.

Eric: Well...

Ben: We're still going to have the football games. We shouldn't fly in planes. We should just stop. We should all go hide in our basements because of the fact that Osama Bin Laden's after us. It doesn't work like that. People need...

Laura: People aren't hiding, Ben. Are you telling me that you think all of the people on Harry's side from school aren't going to go out and fight against the Death Eaters? Because I think they are.

Jamie: No, of course they won't.

Laura: I don't think they need school.

Ben: What are they going to do? They need to have their education first. They're going to be worthless against a bunch of adult wizards...

Laura: No, they don't.

Ben: ...who have had their education.

Eric: They've had their education. Dumbledore's Army...

Ben: Hogwarts needs to stay open so that they can learn.

Laura: Yeah, don't you see the point behind Dumbledore's Army, at this point? Those students learned way more in Dumbledore's Army...

Ben: Right, but there will be no more Dumbledore's Army.

Laura: It doesn't – they don't need Hogwarts...

Ben: There'll be nothing.

Laura: ...to have Dumbledore's Army.

Jamie: Of course they do!

Laura: No, they don't. That was clearly exhibited in Book Six.

Jamie: This is so, this so, you know, Dumbledore's Army, it's a thing of students who are going to go and take on the Death Eaters and emerge victorious. It isn't a fairy tale. They'll go over there and half of them will be killed. Those two sisters, whose younger brother was killed by Greyback, they are not going to want to fight a war like this. They're going to want to stay in the school and watch the news and see what's going on from that perspective. You can't just completely close down their social hub just because there is a war going on, you know.

Laura: I don't know...

Eric: Because that's why Harry's...

Laura: I think if my little brother were killed by people I'd want to go out and fight the people that did it.

Eric: And that's exactly why Harry is leaving Hogwarts.

Ben: That's your mentality...

Jamie: Exactly...

Ben: ... but you also have to think about the fact of what's going to be better for the students? What are they going to think is better for them: stay at home and have a chance of being killed, or go to school, have fun with your friends, and face the same chances?

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: I think Hogwarts is safer. Even though Hogwarts has been infiltrated in the past with the Vanishing Cabinets, don't you think security is going to be so much more tighter? It's like saying after 9/11, that they're going to use the airplanes again. It's not going to happen.

Laura: Yes, but see there's...

Ben: Security is so tight. They've already broken up attacks with the airplanes. It's the same thing with infiltrating Hogwarts, they're not going to be able to do it again. They're going to attack some other way, and I don't think that...

Laura: Exactly. They will attack another way.

Ben: ...they should close down Hogwarts.

Laura: It's just like – you bring up 9/11. People are afraid of the security of subways and trains because people are more focused on planes, now. People are – they're going to be more focused on the secret passages into Hogwarts now. I mean, there's going to always be a weakness, and...

Ben: But...

Laura: ...the worst thing that you can do...

Ben: But at the same time, the people at Hogwarts are going to be concerned about those places too.

Laura: Sure, they will, but there will always be weaknesses. There are always going to be places where Death Eaters can get into the school, and the worst thing that they can do is assemble thousands of students there to be taken hostage.

Jamie: No, but it isn't assembling them, they're there already.

Eric: What Laura and I are saying, and I'll put this into a nice little parody, a nice little story here...

Jamie: Well, thanks for that, Eric.

Eric: ...is – you're welcome – is that after 9/11, it significantly hurt plane travel. It didn't – obviously it didn't stop planes, but people were a little bit more wary of travel, and especially if they were planning a vacation to the Middle East, nobody does that anymore. [laughs] So, I think it's a matter of just – obviously, we're not flying. We are staying home instead of – say you were planning a trip to the Middle East. Obviously now you're not going to go there because it's a war zone, you could get killed. But at the same time, our leaders – Bush and everybody – are still fighting. They're still sending troops over there, and the war is going on, but we're in the comfort of our own home. We're not over at Iraq fighting. You know, we're not – say it's being shipped to Iraq, just for a family vacation or something. You're not going to do that because it's a war zone, but you are at home, but our leaders are still fighting. The people who can win the war are still fighting the war, and...

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