MuggleCast | The #1 Most-Listened to Harry Potter Podcast

MuggleCast 55 Transcript

Show Intro

Andrew [Show Intro with music in background]: Because I screwed up last week calling Episode 54 "Episode 55," this is MuggleCast Episode 54 - but really 55, for September 10th, 2006. Does that make sense?

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[Andrew hums Intro music]

Andrew: Don't you guys like this music?

Ben: Yeah, it's excellent. [laughs]

Jamie: It's very good. It's very good.

Eric: John Williams at his best, Andrew.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: I think I'm the next Bono.

Jamie: It's a drunk John Williams recording. He got back after a few drinks and thought "I'm going to have a quickie on the keyboard." [laughs]

[Eric laughs]

Jamie: And that came out.

Andrew: Jamie, we don't appreciate that kind of language on here.

Eric: Yeah, especially - well, you're half way there, Andrew.

Jamie: What, "keyboard"?

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: "Keyboard" is pretty disgusting, isn't it? The word "keyboard".

Andrew: Welcome, everyone, to the show, but Ben - what's up? There's a lot of noise going on, here.

Ben: I'm in my library and my Spanish teacher is trying to talk to me right now while I'm trying to record this.

Andrew: Can you tell her to "shut up-o", please-o? Ben [laughs]: No, I can't do that. They say "cŠllete." Andrew [laughs]: Anyway, to the introductions.

Ben: I'm Ben Schoen.

Eric: I'm Eric Scull.

Jamie: I'm Jamie Lawrence.

Andrew: And this is the late - no it's not the latest. This is the show where we bring you the latest in Harry Potter news, theories, discussions and lots of Potter pickles. It's been catching on, and I couldn't be more proud.

Ben: And Moundridge High School libraries.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs] Ben, is there no one else - how many people are in that library? It seems kind of quiet.

Jamie: Andrew, Andrew...

Andrew: What?

Jamie: No one's in there at all. It's Ben's personal school library, you see.

[Ben laughs]

Andrew: Oh! [laughs] I see.

Jamie: In Moundridge each person gets their own library with a sort of kitchen, bedroom, a plasma TV, all that kind of stuff. It's pretty special.

Ben: Yeah. [laughs] Well, actually, actually I'm sitting on a giant, soft, comfy chair, which is very, very comfortable. And - yeah.

Jamie: You get three of those, don't you, Ben?

Ben: Yeah, three of those, and actually, there's a kid on the couch laying down and staring at me right now.

Andrew: Ask him what he thinks of Harry Potter. Ben [to student on the couch]: Hey, what do you think of Harry Potter?

Student: I don't know.

Ben: He doesn't know.

Andrew: [laughs] Ask him if he's on pot, because it certainly sounds like it.

Ben: [to student on the couch] My friend wants to know if you're on pot.

Student: No.

Ben: No, he's not on pot.

Andrew: No? [laughs] Anyway...

Ben: We'll go around and get more opinions from Moundridge High School students here in a bit.

Andrew: Ooh! That sounds exciting.

Jamie: Yeah!

Ben: Very exciting.


Andrew: [laughs]: But before we do anything else, Micah Tannenbaum is in the MuggleCast News Center with the past week's top Harry Potter news stories.

Micah: Lord Voldemort was voted the number one villain in the BigBadRead, an online Bloomsbury poll to find the UK's favorite literary villain from a children's book.

Here's what Jo had to say about this "honor":

I am thrilled and honored beyond words that Lord Voldemort has been voted best villain in the Big Bad Read poll. I am not sure how he would react to knowing that he had won a Muggles' unpopularity poll. A mixture of pleasure that you recognized his power and menace, coupled with fury at your nerve at mentioning his real name, I think. His author, however, is absolutely delighted."

MuggleNet staffer Natalie attended the premiere of Driving Lessons starring Rupert Grint and Julie Walters, in London's Leicester Square. She managed to do a short interview with Rupert Grint, and also spoke briefly to Emma Watson, Julie Walters, and Bonnie Wright. You can check those out over on

Driving Lessons hit theaters Friday in the UK. To coincide with its release, a tea party was held earlier in Edinburgh. According to the Daily Mirror, JK Rowling went along to support Rupert.

She tells The Ticket she is half-way through writing the seventh and possibly final book, but the 41-year-old Scottish author is keeping tight-lipped over rumors she's planning to kill off Harry.

"I'm up to about 750 pages now, but I'm not telling anyone what happens to Harry," she says. "I've just come along to support Rupert who's absolutely terrific in Driving Lessons."

Just keep in mind The Daily Mirror is a British tabloid, not exactly known for its accurate reporting.

Pope Benedict XVI's senior exorcist claims the Harry Potter books contain innumerable positive references to magic, "the satanic art."

"Behind Harry Potter hides the signature of the king of the darkness, the devil," he told Vatican Radio. And according to the Daily Mail newspaper in London, he added that the books attempt to make a false distinction between black and white magic, when in fact, the distinction "does not exist, because magic is always a turn to the devil."

Yeah, I always find myself going into a hypnotic trance, floating above my bed, while chanting indecipherable languages after I finished a re-read of Prisoner of Azkaban, don't you? You're a senior exorcist! How about becoming a lawyer? At least then people will believe what you say 20% of the time as opposed to 10% of the time. And I hear the pay is better too.

Moving on, a recent interview was conducted with Alec Hopkins, the actor portraying young Severus Snape in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. He discusses filming, talking with Alan Rickman, and how he ended up with the role.

Entertainment Weekly has ranked the fourth Harry Potter film, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, #36 on its list of the best "high school movies" of all time. That's all the news for this September 10th, 2006 edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.

Andrew: Okay, thank you, Micah.


Andrew: A couple announcements before we move along. T-shirts - MuggleCast t-shirts. Purchase your t-shirts, k-thanks-bye.

Ben: Yeah, t-shirts.

Andrew: Also, Podcast Alley - don't forget to vote. It's a new month.

Don't forget, boys and girls - Leaky Mug Live in Los Angeles, California on September 28, 7 PM, at the Borders of Westwood in L.A.

Ben: Westwood. Yeah.

Andrew: Yes, it's going to be a fantastic event. We're all going to be there. So, come out and support, represent, wear your MuggleCast t-shirts.

Jamie: Say hello.

Andrew: It's going to be a lot of fun.

Ben: Wear your MuggleCast t-shirt.

Andrew: But, please do RSVP on, so we know that you're coming.

Listener Rebuttal - Sirius and The Mirror

Andrew: Listener Rebuttals this week. Zoe...

Ben: Let me do it. I want to read this one.

Andrew: Okay.

Ben: Our first Listener Rebuttal comes from Zoe MacLeod, 17...

Jamie: McCloud. McCloud.

Ben: McCloud. From Newport Beach, California - right there in the heart of the O.C.

Hey guys! Love the show! Anyway, I was just thinking, maybe Sirius did have the mirror with him when he fell through the veil but the reason that Harry couldn't contact him was because he had the say "Padfoot" instead of "Sirius Black." If James and Sirius did make the two-way mirrors, it would make sense that they would use their nicknames like they did on the Marauderís Map. Just wondering what you guys think.

Jamie: Have we got to assume that if he went through the veil with his mirror, that he's still alive down there? Sort of bored out of his mind.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Ben: I think he's down there eating Lucky Charms, you know. [laughs]

Jamie: Yeah, exactly. Yes, he is, he is.

Eric: Well, he...

Jamie: Andrew's dad went to...

Ben: The veil? [laughs]

Jamie: The Department of Mysteries and...

Ben: And he threw a few boxes through. [laughs]

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Put his head through, and he's like "Hey, Sirius, you getting a bit hungry down there, are ya?" [laughs]

Eric: And then there was that whispering beyond the veil, "Thanks, mate." But I think we've discerned that it's not the Killing Curse that hit Sirius when he fell back into the veil to begin with, because he had time for his eyes to widen with shock.

Jamie: It's the hungry characteristic.

Eric: Curiosity characteristic. It's kind of like "What's going on?"

[Ben laughs]

Eric: He might still be alive down there just eating Lucky Charms.

Jamie: Eric, you've just completely ruined that beautiful moment. When his eyes widen, by using an over-used Americanized expression, like "Hey, what's going on?"

Ben: Yeah.

Jamie: Sirius did not think, "Hey, what's going on?", trust me. [Ben laughs]

Eric: Okay, Jamie.

Jamie: Stuff went through his mind like, "Oh my god, I'm never going to see my godson again. Oh my god, my house! Oh my god, all my friends!" Please don't cheapen it by saying that he thought "Hey guys, what's going on here, dude?"

Eric: Well, no.

[Ben laughs]

Eric: It said that "he had an expression of mixed shock and curiosity on his face." "Hey, what's going on?" seemed to depict that. Well, he could have also been saying [sings] "I've got a peaceful, easy feeling."

Jamie: I don't think he thought of singing.

Ben: Thanks, Eric.

Eric: Maybe he just thought that - he said, "This is a particularly interesting phenomenon that is being observed right now. I wish that I would not be falling backwards."

Jamie: But rather forwards? To the great delight of the Ministry of Magic.

Eric: Yes.

Ben: Right. [laughs] Our next Listener Rebuttal...

Andrew: An interesting point though. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Back... We never really responded to the actual rebuttal.

Jamie: No, we didn't.

Eric: Well, I think it's... I don't think that's correct, because even though it's - I think it would of came with extra instruction if... Sirius would've given Harry a little bit more in the note if he had to say "Padfoot" instead of "Sirius Black."

Andrew: Right.

Ben: Eric makes a fair point.

Eric: Or Harry would go up to it and say "Well, this thing is broken, because I say 'Sirius Black' and it doesn't show me him." And then he would throw it and break it.

Andrew: Yeah, but then...

Jamie: But it's not future - I don't mean future, I mean it's not like sort of security proof. That doesn't make sense. But, you know what I mean? It's not...

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: Anyone could walk up to it and say, "Sirius Black," whereas the name "Padfoot" is only known to a few people so...

Ben: That's true.

Andrew: More secure?

Jamie: It's like, yeah. It's more secure.

Eric: Whereas, the Marauder's Map, you need to specifically say, what? "I solemnly swear I am up to no good." Do you mean like that kind of secure? Like, it's not...

Jamie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, kind of. It's like, if you knew it was Sirius' then you could just walk up and say, "Sirius Black," whereas...

Eric: Or...

Jamie: If you said, "Padfoot," you have to actually think about that.

Eric: Yeah, and if they were the only pair in the world, you could just say, "Other mirror," and [laughs] it would probably work.

Jamie: [laughs] Yeah, exactly, yeah.

Listener Rebuttal - Availability of The Two-Way Mirror

Andrew: Next rebuttal.

Ben: Our next rebuttal comes from Jimmy Rose. "In your last episode there was some discussion about the commercial availability..."

Andrew: Hold on, wait a second, wait a second. Hold on.

Ben: What?

Andrew: It's interesting how Ben suddenly wants to do all this reading. I kind of think he's showing off for the crack addict there.

Jamie: Yeah, exactly. I think he's...

Ben: Oh yeah, yeah, I'm showing off for the two people...

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: the library.

[Andrew and Jamie laugh]

Ben: I've done the reading before.

Jamie: Are you charging them both rent, Ben?

Ben: What?

Jamie: Or is it just like - are you charging them both rent in your library? Or...

Ben: [laughs] Yes, I am.

Andrew: He's charging - he marketed it as a Live Podcast at his school and only two people showed up.

Jamie: Yeah, he did. Yeah.

Ben: I've been selling t-shirts all day. Selling...

Andrew: Yeah, okay. [laughs] Anyway...

Ben: Our next listener rebuttal's from Jimmy Rose.

"In your last episode, there was some discussion about the commercial availability of two-way mirrors. Given what we know about the wizarding world, this seems unlikely to me. In Britain at least, there are two main areas for wizarding commerce - Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade. If you consider what is for sale -or at least what's mentioned as being for sale in the books - you'll find that most of it has to do with food, joke items, clothing, animals and broomsticks. We've yet to see the wizarding world's version of The Sharper Image. In fact..."

[Ben and Eric laugh]

Ben: "...we've got a lot of evidence that there is a lot of call for convenience items. Take for example the Remembrall. It lets you know that you've gotten - that you've forgotten something, but gives you no help at all in remembering what was forgotten. If that's the best way they can..." [laughs] "If that's the best they can do..."

Jamie: This is poorly read, Ben, I must admit.

Ben: "...for commercially available personal organization..."

Sorry, people keep walking in here and looking at me. [laughs] "...I find it hard to believe that you'd walk into a store and find something as useful as the two-way mirror."

Anyways, we know what he's saying - we know what Jimmy is saying here.

Jamie: I agree, but it could be like a special mail order item that you can only get from a certain - from

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Or something like that. It's like... It could not be a sort of. It could just be like a patented item that only one company sells. Or something like that.

Andrew: [mocking Jamie] Pain-te-ted. Pain-te-ted.

Jamie: Well...

Ben: Patented?

Andrew: Like Linux.

Ben: Linux.

Eric: You know what's interesting about the Remembralls, is that they were banned from the O.W.L. tests in Book Five, but I find that interesting because they aren't actually supposed to tell you what you've forgotten. Or, like, according to the movie.

Jamie: Yeah. You could have forgotten anything.

Ben: You going to know you've forgotten something...

Eric: Why are Remembralls, you know... I mean, unless it's like... If it's good on a multiple choice answer where you're like, "Okay, I think it's B," and then it says, "You've forgotten the truth," or something.

Jamie: Because it's still an aid that stops your thing.

Eric: It is an aid, yeah.

Jamie: But, the thing is, this is also about Felix Felicis. It says it... Slughorn says that it's a banned thing in competitions, athletic events, so, you can only use it on an ordinary day. But what constitutes an ordinary day? It's like that, which is why I don't see how Felix Felicis could possibly ever be allowed, really. Because, who decides if it's an ordinary day? But, that's completely gone off on a tangent, so...

Eric: Yeah, I like what...

Jamie: ...I think we should get back to Jimmy Rose.

Eric: I like what Jimmy Rose was saying about convenience items and also how the wizards want to impress each other with different gifts and things.

Jamie: Oh yeah, yeah.

Eric: I think that's cool. But, obviously, a lot of that is also Misuse of Muggle Artifacts, like the Ford Anglia. So...

Jamie: Yeah. But he points out that wizards like to change ordinary items like using unheard of magical spells, that kind of thing, to change them for their own good, like the Marauder's Map. It's clearly taken a strong bit of individual personalized magic to make it how it is. And so, the two-way mirrors... I mean, I think they just bought two mirrors...

Andrew: And enchanted them.

Jamie: ...from the mirror shop in Hogsmeade, yeah. And enchanted them.

Eric: And I think there are several other rules that they could work with if they wanted to do that. Such as, the rule of seven, which seems to be present, at least to Voldemort and Horcruxes. Seven is a magical number. And also the rule of pairs, as described by Dumbledore.

Tangent: Phone Booths

Jamie: Yeah. Can we just talk about... Jimmy mentions the phonebooks - the phone booth outside of St. Mungo's.

Eric: Yeah, that's...

Jamie: Sorry, outside of Purge and Dowse.

Eric: Saint...

Andrew: Ministry of Magic.

Jamie: No, no, no, no.

Eric: It's Purge and Dowse, yeah.

Jamie: Yeah, yeah, sorry. The Ministry of Magic. No...

Andrew: It's the Ministry of Magic, isn't it?

Eric: We should have given Leaky that question.

Jamie: No. It's the Ministry of Magic, isn't it?

Eric: Yeah, it's the Ministry of Magic.

Jamie: Yeah, sorry, yeah.

Eric: The phone booth.

Jamie: It seems... Yeah. This is completely off on a tangent again, but I was just thinking, it seems a bit weird that they choose that thing to get into the Ministry because it's - one person's number in the real world has got to end in "MAGIC" or start in "MAGIC."

Andrew: Yeah, but there are only... Well, that phone - does that phone really work?

Jamie: Yeah. No, yeah.

Ben: No, no. I doubt it actually dials out.

Jamie: Because I would be scared if... I would be scared if I was sitting there, if I was standing in there and I dialed my friend's number and the phone booth...

[Eric laughs]

Jamie: ...went down into the earth. I'd think something was screwing up.

Andrew: Yeah, but it's just, "MAGIC," and in the book it's described that nobody would ever approach it because it's so worn down.

Eric: There's like shattered panes of glass.

Andrew: Yeah. It's...

Ben: You probably have to dial out anyways.

Jamie: There had to be somebody who...

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: What do you mean, you've got to dial out?

Ben: Well, sometimes you have to enter a number.

Andrew: Well, if you just dial "MAGIC" and stop, then it'll...

Jamie: Oh, well. Yeah, but somebody, somebody who's read the Harry Potter books will probably go there now and...

[Andrew laughs]

Ben: Yeah, no. That's like saying somebody...

Jamie: And dial, "MAGIC."

Ben: No, that's like saying somebody would have to be able to stumble on...

Jamie: I'm joking, Benjamin.

Ben: No, no. I'm saying that's like saying someone could be able to stumble upon Hogwarts. It could have the same anti-Muggle charms that Hogwarts does.

Jamie: Yeah, it could, it could. But there must be some easier way, though, of doing it. Yeah, I mean, it probably does, but still.

Ben: Of course, there is probably some easier way, but that's the way it is.

Eric: Well, that's just the Muggle entrance too.

Andrew: Yeah. Deal with it.

Jamie: Yeah. Because, yeah. Let's just deal with everything. Every single show should just be, "Hi, welcome to MuggleCast. Deal with it."

Ben: That was hilarious. That's a real knee-slapper, Jamie.

Jamie: "And that wraps up the show this week. I'm Andrew Sims."

Andrew: Yeah, I'm on the floor. I'm in tears.

Eric: There's that British humor.

Jamie: Well, Ben, Ben. Okay, well...

[Ben laughs]

Jamie: At least I don't think that Sirius... This is going to get you, Eric, but...

[Andrew laughs

Jamie: I don't need it to only get you. It's going to get all of you in general...

[Eric laughs]

Jamie: ...because your jokes are so obvious. "Hey, guys! And he was like,í Dude, what's happenin' here, man?'" That's the kind of jokes - obvious stuff.

Eric: That was not a joke!

Ben: That wasn't a joke.

Jamie: I don't care! I don't care! You're going to take...

Andrew: All right, anyway...

Eric: That was inflection. That was what I thought Sirius would say.

Jamie: Just 'cause you don't understand the nuances and subtleties of the British humor, you know?

Ben: That wasn't even funny, though. Humor means it's funny.

Jamie: Okay, Ben. Okay, whatever, Ben. Whatever.

Listener Rebuttal - Sirius: Harry, Use The Mirror!

Ben: Our next rebuttal comes from Stacey, 24, from Washington. Once again, about the two-way mirror:

"I recently read Order of the Phoenix, and something about the mirror stuck me, and I have not been able to get it out of my mind. In Chapter 29 of Order of the Phoenix, Fred and George created diversions ..."

[Jamie and Andrew laugh]

Ben: " Harry could use Umbridge's fireplace undetected to contact..." [laughs] "...Sirius and ask him about the 'Snape's Worst Memory.' Why, oh, why didn't Sirius tell Harry to use the mirror instead of going to all that trouble? Perhaps he didn't want Lupin to know he'd given a two-way mirror to Harry. But, I think the situation was important enough for Sirius to encourage Harry to use the mirror. But, I suppose if Sirius had told Harry, the rest of the book may not have happened."

Eric: Yeah, I think this is something where you were reading a little bit too much into it. I just re-read this scene about two days ago, and it was Sirius. It was one of those things where Sirius just didn't think about it. He was, you know... Harry was in the fire, and whereas Sirius would say, "What are you doing here? You're risking your neck. Why didn't you use the mirror?" Where that could have happened, he was basically just, you know, excited to have any contact with Harry. Remember, the kind of person Sirius is. He was very excited, but also very worried, and he just wanted to hear what Harry had to say, so that he could get off and on his way.

Ben: And remember, hindsight is 20/20. I mean, it could have just been an oversight, you know.

Eric: Yeah, and...

Jamie: Something about the mirror hit her.

Ben: And when Harry hid the mirror, he buried it at the bottom of his trunk. So, he didn't want to communicate with Sirius, because he was worried he was going to get him in trouble, or whatever. So, he decided not to. I just think it was...

Eric: Plus, at the time... Yeah.

Ben: Like, when you're not in that situation it's different.

Eric: And Lupin had to run and get Sirius, too. He's, you know - Harry came through, saw Lupin.

Ben: Yeah.

Eric: And Lupin just had to run up while Sirius was feeding Buckbeak, and out of the blue. It's just one of those things that slips your mind. The fact is, Harry is in the fire, needs to talk to you, you know? Do you say, "Why didn't you use this, it's much safer"? It just slipped his mind.

Jamie: Ben, if I make a joke about, "Something about the mirror struck me, and I've not been able to get it out of my head." If I say, "Oh, it's a shard of glass," or something like that, are you going to be like, "Oh, dude, that's not funny, man!"

Eric: Why? Well, if it's not funny...

Ben: If it's not funny, it's not funny. Sorry, Jamie.

[Eric laughs]

Ben: Sorry you're... "Hey, this is MuggleCast. Deal with it, man."

Jamie: I've kind of spoiled it now by... I've kind of spoiled... laughs]

Eric: Jamie, yes, you're British, yes, you're magical, but if your joke is not funny, we will not laugh. [laughs]

Ben: Yeah.

Jamie: Ok, well, that kind of spoiled it now by asking you if you'd find it funny, so let's move on.

Andrew: This is a very dry humor podcast. All right, well, Ben has to get put of here 'cause, for some reason, he podcasts at school now.

Jamie: He has to get out because...

Eric: He's kicked out of school for podcasting.

Jamie: No, no, no. The personal libraries are normally 24 hours, but they're doing some refurbishments there. So, he's got to get out.

Eric: Ohhh. Adding in like a hot tub machine, a slushy...

Jamie: Yeah, precisely, yeah.

[Eric and Jamie laugh]

Jamie: A free recording studio, as well, so the sound quality of the next MuggleCast is going to be amazing.

[Eric laughs]

Main Discussion: Power and Magical Ability

Andrew: Laura and Micah are going to join us a little bit later in the show, but for now, [clears throat] we do have a main discussion. Well, just a discussion, for everyone this week. [laughs]

Jamie: Yeah, it's... Well, no, I think "just a discussion" is a bit mean. It's sort of a "mai" discussion, you know? Doesn't have the "n" on it.

Andrew: It's a what? It's a "mai"?

Jamie: It's a "mai" discussion.

Andrew: Okay. [laughs]

Jamie: It's almost a discussion. It's just slightly lacking, you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: [laughs] Slightly lacking?

Jamie: Slightly lacking, yeah. This week, we are going to discuss the difference in power and magical ability between Voldemort and Dumbledore, and every other wizard, witch, and everything. So, we're going to start with a small intro, and then go on to ask a few questions that we're going to discuss.

Andrew: 'kay!

Does Magical Ability Stem From Knowledge?

Jamie: Throughout the series, there have been constant reminders of the difference in power between Voldemort and Dumbledore, and other witches and wizards. References are often made to the incredible powers Voldemort has at his disposal, such as: Peter Pettigrew saying, "There are powers the Dark Lord possesses," stuff like that, and also that Dumbledore is the only wizard that Voldemort has ever feared. Judging by Dumbledore's easy defeat of the Death Eaters at the Ministry of Magic, e.g. him casting that rope thing that binds them all together, and his difficult and deadly battle with Voldemort, are we safe to assume that these two wizards are on a par, or close to a par on ability, where they're miles and miles ahead of other witches and wizards?

And, that is the intro, and our first question - which kind of - it isn't really answered in the main discussion, but it kind of stems from it. It's is magical ability, does it stem from people's knowledge, like in Star Wars? As in your knowledge of the Force? So, Yoda is, you know, sort of the best because he's so old, and he started the Force, so he knows its nuances and its subtleties, and he can use that to greater ability.

Andrew: I think that certainly stands for Dumbledore because of his age, but, I mean, the last sentence in your opening, though. Wasn't that a question? "Are we safe to assume that these two wizards...?"

Jamie: Yes, it was. It was. It was. Yeah. We could talk about that.

Andrew: Because I would say, yes. Dumbledore is the most - what's the wording? Powerful wizard? Most powerful wizard alive?

Jamie: Ummm, yeah.

Eric: I just heard it described that Voldemort was actually the most powerful. In fact by Dumbledore, I think, himself. Towards the end, he said that Voldemort... And you know, again this is kind of a question that, you know, in the beginning of the first book, McGonagall and Dumbledore sitting on the ledge, and McGonagall says...

Tangent: The Whomping Willow

Jamie: K-I-S-S-I-N-G? [laughs]

Eric: No, that's in the tree later on.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Eric: But, could they actually bewitch the Whomping Willow to sit in it? I don't know, anyway.

[Andrew laughs]

Eric: You know what? Maybe the Whomping Willow is just tired of being used by Dumbledore and McGonagall. But, anyway.

Jamie: I think it is. It's just - they spend so much time up there, and thinks, "I just can't watch this anymore."

[Eric laughs]

Andrew: It got its name, the "Whomping" Willow, because Dumbledore was whomping McGonagall. [in high-pitched voice] Ahhh!

Eric: Oooh! That was a good one! Even though it would be really funny.

[Andrew laughs]

Back to Main Discussion: Dumbledore and Voldemort's Power

Eric: You know, she says that, "you're too noble to use some powers," and he blushes, of course, but in Book 5, Dumbledore actually does say and I think it's okay for him to admit that Voldemort is... He said specifically, "Not powerful, but his extensive knowledge of magic..."

Jamie: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Eric: "...covers more than any other wizard, including myself." And I think it's safe to say that Voldemort would at least know more different kinds than Dumbledore. But, again, Dumbledore holds his own and Dumbledore was easily - well, not easily - but he was able to detect the whole, "cut your wrist, open the door, use the thing across the lake." He was able to detect the magic, so they're very obviously close in power.

Jamie: Yeah, though I agree, but I just think that it's funny - well, not really funny - but how at the Ministry of Magic, Dumbledore just walked in cast one spell and all of the Death Eaters just didn't have a chance. And with Bellatrix, as well, who's clearly pretty powerful magically. He just bewitched the Fountain of Magical Brethren and the thing just came after her, and she fired spells uselessly off it's chest. You know? It just seems like he can do absolutely anything against anyone.

Andrew: So easily.

Eric: Well, he could.

Jamie: Yeah, so easily, whereas it's just against Voldemort that he has trouble. That battle in the Ministry, I doubt any other wizard could have stood up to that amount of magical power being transferred back and forth.

Eric: Even Harry? You think?

Jamie: In terms of blow on blow, if Harry had dodged it and jumped around and used his mind like he has, then, yes, probably, but I can't imagine if they had a sort of [laughs] slapping contest for wizards, where you slap the other person in the face and then they slap you and it just keeps happening until you give up. If they did that with wands and spells, I can't imagine Harry being able to stand up to Voldemort's or Dumbledore's things.

Eric: Oh, obviously not.

Jamie: It doesn't seem like normal spells.

Eric: They aren't.

Jamie: They don't only fire stuff... They don't only fire stuff out of their wands. They bewitch and ensnare, and cause the water to rise up and do stuff like that.

Eric: Yeah.

Jamie: Other people I just don't think can...

Eric: No. The whole water thing covering Voldemort, like Voldemort enclosed in this case of like water, and even the fact that Voldemort left his physical body to possess Harry. Even the fact that he just jumped out of his body and into Harry's and his body disappeared completely from the physical plane.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: How can you do that?

Jamie: Well, exactly.

Eric: And that's what makes the battle so cool to see. Sorry, Andrew.

Andrew: And yet, in the Ministry, he continued to be disregarded as this mad man who just had no influence in the Ministry of Magic.

Eric: Oh, yeah.

Andrew: It's very sad.

Eric: Well, that's the question, if Dumbledore ran things, you know. If Dumbledore was Minister of Magic, but he would never want that. He just wanted to teach students.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah, precisely.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Teaching students and governing the already grown-up public are two separate choices, I think, for your life.

Jamie: But don't you think that going back to Voldemort's power especially, the Aurors are supposed to catch dark wizards. I just don't think you can call Voldemort simply a dark wizard.

Eric: Because he's a Dark Lord.

Jamie: He's not only a dark wizard. Yeah, exactly. The Aurors are impressive and stuff, but if Dumbledore can curse Dawlish, and I'm not going to say it.

Andrew: Yeah, thank you.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: You just did. You've given it enough to John.

Jamie: [laughs] I'm going to say it as quickly as possible. Quickly as possible. If Dumbledore can curse Dawlish so easily with no effort whatsoever, and he's got Outstanding in every single N.E.W.T. he's ever taken...

Eric: Exactly.

Jamie: ...and along with five other people at the same time before or however many people it was, how can Dawlish have any chance of catching Voldemort? It's just inconceivable.

Eric: That's why it is, but that's the thing. They should've used Dumbledore. They should've... Now I bet they're kicking themselves in the butt because Dumbledore was so powerful.

Jamie: Don't you think, also, that Book Six especially, Dumbledore's mental and physical decline, I think, is showing. That while he could exchange blow on blow with Voldemort for awhile, Voldemort is more powerful than him overall.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: I think if they... In Book Six, if it came down to a duel, Voldemort would win. And I think that's putting everything on Harry. Absolutely everything on Harry.

Eric: Yes, but I think that also goes to say that, why then, is it exactly a bad thing that Dumbledore died, anyway? Because, if he...

Jamie: Well, precisely, yeah.

Eric: He obviously was declining. Whether that was, I guess power, and if you remember age is kind of a factor.

Jamie: Oh, yeah.

Eric: It's got to be. You know...

Andrew: Definitely, in Book Six, played a role.

Eric: The soul would, of course, be an advantage Dumbledore had over Voldemort. Dumbledore told Harry that he only suspected one wizard or any wizard, or all wizards in general, of only having one Horcrux, which we can kind of infer is Grindelwald, but nobody knows. But he said the most he thinks any wizard had of Horcruxes was one. Obviously, that says a great... How did Voldemort acquire that knowledge of how to do that, not just once, but six times? Maybe he talked to the guy who did it the first time, but for the term to even exist, you'd think that enough people would...

Jamie: So, how's your Horcrux?

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Jamie: But, it's just... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree.

Eric: Yeah.

Jamie: Amen. I concur. But, I just... It just seems that the reason for Dumbledore's death was that he couldn't teach Harry anything more. He taught him everything he knew, and since he couldn't take on Voldemort for him, you know?

Eric: Mhm.

Eric: There wasn't anything left for him, apart from to die. It sounds terrible but, apart for him to die and infuriate Harry even more so that he's going to go and kick Voldemort's butt, man.

Eric: Yeah. Well, he could of told Harry how he, kind of, burned his hand off. So, I don't think we're talking exactly about the second part of this, as in comparison to other wizards. We've talked about them to each other.

Jamie: Don't you think that he could, both of them... All of the Death Eaters are scared of Voldemort, so clearly he has weapons that they can't even comprehend.

Eric: Oh yeah.

Jamie: It just seems like that he has everything that everyone else, you know? I mean like even people, obviously, respect him, as well. Like Ollivander said, he did terrible things.

Eric: But great.

Jamie: Sorry, great things but terrible, yes. Awful, but great things. He's so powerful. People respect power, even if it's terrible power and the same with Dumbledore. Everyone respected him. Hogwarts was safe because Dumbledore was there, you know? And if Voldemort feared Dumbledore, you can't disagree with Voldemort, who hates being weak, who hates weakness, who hates being scared of other things. If he personally feared Dumbledore, then what does that say about Dumbledore, you know?

Eric: Mhm. Well that's true, too, but that's just the thing. Again, thatís why it's so fun to watch the battle in Book Five, because Voldemort just comes up with some kind of weird sounding talisman reverberation thing and Dumbledore counters it with some kind of...

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: ...shield of unknown...

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: ...presence that makes a gong...

Jamie: Shields of Glory. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, well it was a gong sound. Remember that. It was like a...

Jamie: That was Voldemort's shield. That was Voldemort's shield.

Eric: Yes, but that was amazing. It was like a strange gong humming as in response to Dumbledore's...

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: But then, it's just...

Jamie: What spell did he cast then, if he didn't seek to kill him there? After Voldemort could tell from that.

Eric: I know, isn't that the coolest question in the world? Because Voldemort...

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: ...immediately said, after he reflected that spell, "You wish not to kill me, Dumbledore?"

Jamie: Yeah, "You didnít seek to kill me?"

Eric: And of course they got into their, "You do not know that there are worst things than death," and stuff like that. But Voldemort knew exactly - he must have known exactly what that spell was going to do to him, even though...

Jamie: Yeah, he did. Yeah.

Eric: ...Dumbledore didn't open his mouth.

Jamie: I just canít think what kind of spell that could possibly have been.

Eric: And how do you acquire that knowledge of what, you know, with the gong's sound it means it was this charm, you know, it was this spell?

Jamie: Yeah, exactly.

Eric: It's just unbelievable.

Jamie: He clearly sort of read music by ear so, you know, each spell makes a different sound and then he just hears it and, you know, knows from there.

Eric: [laughs] What do you guys think of Dumbledore as a Legilimens? Because here was a question in Book Five about Dumbledore teaching him himself. Like, it was tossed around, except for, obviously, the fact that, you know, Harry would, upon looking at Dumbledore, explode into flames, but [laughs] he said, "I didn't teach him myself because I didn't want to reveal anything to Voldemort." And stuff. But Dumbledore as a Legilimens seems kind of cool. And...

Jamie: He's clearly amazing, though, because he's amazing at everything. [laughs]

Eric: Oh, heís amazing at everything. I think he got, what, perfect scores in Transfiguration and Charms or something.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: They were like perfect N.E.W.T.S.

Jamie: He did stuff with a wand that was never seen before or something.

Eric: Oh yeah, Tofty, right. Tofty said that, yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: "Stuff with a wand I'd never seen before." Things like that. It makes you think like it's not an acquirable knowledge. It makes it seem like it just...

Jamie: It's just Dumbledore, it's unnatural.

Eric: Like nobody can just do things with their wand like that, and that was when Dumbledore was at Hogwarts, when he was 17 years old. Here he is 150.

Jamie: Maybe it's like, sort of, you know, Polymaths from the Renaissance period. It's like the wizarding equivalent. They're like. They're just.... Once in a while a wizard, who comes along, who excels in absolutely everything and is ridiculously powerful magically. Like, I bet the Four Founders of Hogwarts were miles ahead of...

Eric: That's the other thing I wanted to bring up.

Jamie: ...other wizards their age.

Andrew: Oh yeah.

Jamie: It just seems like that to me.

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