Andrew [Show Intro with music in background]: Because we all could use a little more love, this is MuggleCast Episode 60 for October 22nd, 2006. See why GoDaddy.com is the number one domain registrar worldwide. Now with your domain registration, you'll get hosting, a free blog, complete e-mail, and much more. Plus, as a MuggleCast listener, enter the code "Ron," that's R-O-N, when you check out and get your dot com domain name for just $6.95 a year. Get your piece of the Internet today at GoDaddy.com.
Andrew: Eric Scull, your crackpot theory of the week is: Dumbledore was a hairless Demiguise.
Eric: Realistically, whose beard is that long? It's got to be - it's got to be fake. It's got to be a wig or maybe magically enhanced or something, but nobody's beard is that long. Really, what you don't know about Albus Dumbledore is that he's been bald since birth. It's just a character trait.
Laura: You're supposed to be proving it, Eric.
Eric: Did I ever prove them?
Laura: Yeah, you're supposed to use, like, evidence to support the theory...
Laura: ...no matter how outrageous it is.
Eric: Right. Well, aren't Demiguises the things that can go invisible?
Eric: Yes, well, easily without wearing an invisibility cloak. Even though they're cut up...
Laura: Uh huh...
Eric: ...and made into... They're - they're made into invisibility cloaks. So I don't know if that counts as not wearing one if you're wearing your own skin.
Andrew: So is that your answer? Is that the best you can do?
Eric: Well, I don't know. What does...
Andrew: For the fans, for the listeners.
Eric: What does Chad, 15, from, you know, Arkansas think of that, who sent it in?
Andrew: It was actually Miranda, 17, of Idaho, and her points include: Dumbledore can turn invisible without a cloak...
Eric: Yay! Hey!
Andrew: Another point; this would be a reason it's weird that he had James's cloak, even though he can turn invisible himself.
Eric: Ah, I didn't think of that one.
Ben: Well, let's get, let's get her on the show. She can do...
Ben: She can do...
Andrew: Forget Eric.
Ben: ...Eric's Crackpot Theory better than Eric can. [laughs]
Andrew: Eric's fired. [laughs]
Andrew: He seems to be able to see through the invisibility cloaks.
Eric: Andrew, why does that make him a hairless Demiguise?
Andrew: I don't know. [laughs]
Andrew: She said, "I know, crazy, I almost had myself convinced before I realized just what I was saying."
Andrew: Welcome to another week of some excellent MuggleCasting, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Andrew Sims.
Ben: I'm Ben Schoen. Eric and
Kevin: [simultaneously] I'm...
Kevin: Kevin Steck. [Everyone speaks at the same time]
Eric: Oh, sorry.
Eric: I forgot.
Ben: Whoa, Eric. Who do you think you are?
Eric: I forgot. I forgot my place there, just for a second.
Eric: I'm very sorry. I'm going to go last, in honor of myself.
Ben: And Jamie.
Laura: Good job, Eric. I'm Laura Thompson.
Eric: I'm Eric Scull.
Andrew: This would be the show where we bring you the latest in Harry Potter news, theories, discussions, all this other nonsense.
Ben: This would be the show, or this is the show?
Andrew: I think this is the show.
Andrew: But it could be, and it will be.
Ben: I was going to say; maybe we're doing something different this week. Maybe we're just going to BS the entire time.
Andrew: I don't know. Maybe we'll try that.
Kevin: [laughs] Oh, yeah. Something different.
Andrew: Before we do anything else, though...
Ben: Speaking of BS, let's go to Micah Tannenbaum...
[Andrew and Kevin laugh]
Ben: ...for the past week's news.
Micah: It was reported after months of negotiations, JK Rowling had signed a letter of intent to the Walt Disney Company allowing them to carry out preliminary construction on a theme park with Harry Potter characters. Tuesday, a representative for Jo informed us that there is no truth to this. There goes my shot at riding Dementors of the Caribbean. That was a terrible joke.
Terry Gilliam, the acclaimed director Warner Bros. turned down for Sorcerer's Stone, said in a new interview that he has no intention to direct either Movie 6 or 7, debunking previous rumors that he would. He was quoted as saying, "Warner Bros. had their chance the first time around, and they blew it. It's a factory job, that's what it is, and I know the way it's done. I've had too many friends work on those movies. I know the way it works, and that's not the way I work."
Many Terry, retract those claws, would ya?
Gilliam went on to discuss what his Potter movie would have been like:
He said: "Alfonso Cuaron's [Prisoner of Azkaban] is really good, but the first two I thought were just bad. They missed the whole point of it; they missed the magic of it... Alfonso did something much closer to what I would've done."
Awww, somebody's jealous. That was just too easy.
In a new interview, actor Rupert Grint spoke a little about the fifth Harry Potter movie, saying they have about a month of filming remaining. He also mentioned a Christmas scene with the Weasleys that he enjoyed, and touched on the topic of a director for Half-Blood Prince, noting rumors that Alfonso Cuaron or Chris Columbus may return for the film.
HP4U.co.uk has released a new report after visiting the Order of the Phoenix set recently. The crew was in the process of shooting scenes involving Thestrals, Hogsmeade Station, and the Hogwarts Express. Filming was located at Black Park in Buckinghamshire, England.
Finally, the American Library Association is asking teens to vote this week - why just teens? Everybody vote this week for their three favorite books with the association subsequently posting the top 10. Half-Blood Prince is among those nominated. Be sure to vote and make Laura Mallory cringe.
That's all the news for this October 22nd, 2006 edition of MuggleCast. Back to the show.
Andrew: Okay, thank you, Micah. Let's take care of a few announcements. Don't forget to purchase your MuggleCast t-shirts because they help support the show, and they're very nice to wear. We have some new designs out - actually we have one new design. We have the Lumos shirts that are available. They're pretty cool looking, so even if you didn't go to Lumos, even if you don't know what Lumos is, buy them because they're cool-looking. And...
Ben: Lumos 2006. They're very nice t-shirts.
Ben: All the cool kids are doing it.
Andrew: Don't forget to place your vote at Podcast Alley. We're actually falling behind this month. We're like, number five.
Eric: For shame.
Andrew: Yeah, there's other podcasts beating us and it's kind of sad, [starts speaking quietly] so maybe if everyone could just place their votes once a month, we could get a little higher up there. So...
Ben: Please, just once a month.
Andrew: Just once a month.
Laura: Love how sad we sound.
Andrew: Bad news out of Australia. Bad news out of Australia.
Ben: We lost. Oh, my gosh.
Kevin: Awww, geez.
Andrew: Lost the Nickelodeon Australian Kids' Choice Awards to a podcast called Camp Orange Maudecast.
Laura: What is that?
Andrew: "Which makes sense, considering it is a Nick show," writes Megan, 18, of Australia. The Kids' Choice Awards got some criticism in the past, I was reading on Wikipedia...
Eric: Yeah, it's not worth it.
Andrew: ...because they sort of - the winners always seem to be Nick - Nickelodeon-related television shows.
Andrew: So, it doesn't surprise me that we didn't win. Even if - maybe, you know, granted, maybe we didn't get the most votes.
Ben: We all know it's a load of phooey, because who listens to the Camp Orange Maudecast?
Andrew: It's not even on iTunes. I tried to look it up on iTunes.
Andrew: It wasn't there.
Eric: They have their own...
Andrew: But, thanks to everyone who did place a vote for us, we appreciate it.
Ben: So, so do us a favor. E-mail Nickelodeon, send them your complaints. [laughs]
Andrew: Let them know how you feel about this win.
Ben: Yeah, let them know how you feel about MuggleCast getting shot down.
Andrew: Also, you might be wondering where Jamie is this week.
Andrew: MuggleCast has personally paid for him to get lessons in French because he butchered the RSVP pronunciation. He thought it was "repondez s'il vous plait," then someone e-mailed and said, "No, it's respondez s'il vous plait," without checking it. [laughs] So, he just said - he just trusted that one person. It actually is "repondez s'il vous plait." Thanks to Holly, 17, of Canada.
Ben: Come on, Jamie.
Andrew: We'll never bring it up again. Yeah, we will never bring it up again. [laughs]
Andrew: Also, little announcement. It's so far - it's so far back in the planning stages. [clears throat] It's - we really have nothing to say, other than that - well, here, let me ask you guys something. What is the number one request that we get right now?
Ben: More Ben Schoen, I think.
Laura: [laughs] No.
Andrew: That's number two. What's number one?
Ben: Oh. Less Eric Scull?
[Andrew and Ben laugh]
Andrew: That's number three.
Ben: Awww, I'm ...I can't...
Eric: [laughs] That's...
Andrew: The number one thing people are asking us right now is, "Will you guys be at Prophecy 2007..."
Kevin: Oh, yeah.
Andrew: "...in Canada?"
Laura: Geez. [laughs]
Andrew: Which is August 2nd to the 5th, 2007.
Ben: Nothing good ever came out of Canada.
Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]
Ben: I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding, Canadian visitors.
Eric: Well, it didn't come from Canada, HPF is based in America.
Ben: I know, I'm just kidding.
Eric: I'm registered.
Ben: Are you really?
Andrew: The answer is - you - you signed up for Prophecy?
Ben: Save Gas Money. [laughs] Part two, with Eric Scull.
[Andrew and Eric laugh]
Andrew: [still laughing] Two.
Eric: Part two. I rearranged the acronym. We're going to read Book Three from Chapter Four, "The Dementor," on...
Eric: We're just going to read all night long.
Ben: We're going to popcorn read?
Andrew: Oh, yeah, are we?
Eric: And John Noe's going to be there. He's going to show up and hand out Leaky stickers and leave.
Ben: What site?
Andrew: So if you haven't figured it out, yes, we are planning on going to Prophecy.
Ben: Did you actually, did you actually...
Andrew: There's no...
Ben: ...talk to Melissa about this?
Andrew: No. We haven't talked; we haven't talked to the Prophecy people about doing a live podcast yet, or anything. So...
Ben: But we will be there. Tentatively. Tentatively.
Andrew: If you want to help us out, if you want to help us out, send a little e-mail to the Prophecy people. Say, "Hey, at Lumos, the Leaky Mug did a podcast. They going to be doing one again?" You know, just drop a hint, you know? And then we'll get in contact with them soon. So...
Ben: Yeah, so as of right now we'll know for sure in like, probably within the next, you know, it has to be the next month or two, we'll know for sure if we're doing a podcast or not.
Andrew: I guess.
Ben: Well, you know, last time...
Laura: Maybe. [laughs]
Ben: ...we knew November, and the convention was in...
Andrew: Was it November?
Laura: Yeah, it was November.
Ben: Yeah, we asked in November, and the convention was clear in...
Andrew: Oh, okay.
Ben: It was in July.
Ben: So... And this time, it's in early August. So, yeah, Prophecy.org , I believe is the website. So...
Ben: Go check it out. Get registered.
Andrew: Send them an e-mail.
Ben: Tell them MuggleCast sent you.
Andrew: Okay, well last week, everyone might remember that we had a great - it was a pretty good discussion on time.
Kevin: It was pretty good. I think we hurt people's heads.
Andrew: We did. We got a lot of feedback.
Ben: I was gone. How many times did Andrew sing, [sings] "Tiiiiiiiime"?
Andrew: Just once.
Kevin: Just once, yeah.
Andrew: [laughs] I did it for you, and then I had a little moment because you weren't there to sing it with me.
Andrew: It's really touching. [laughs]
Laura: How sad.
Andrew: Anyway, we got some lengthy rebuttals. We're going to read two of them now. One from BD, of Alabama, age is 27.
"On the subject of time - [imitates Kevin] Kevin is right. In linear time..."
Ben: About time.
Andrew: [laughs] ...if someone goes back in time to change an event, then it creates a paradox. If someone wants to change an event by going back in time, and they have time travel at their disposal, they would go back in time and change the event. Now here comes the paradox; if the event has changed and all the following events were changed, why would the time traveler want to go back and change an event in the first place after the event was changed?" [laughs].
Kevin: Itís true.
Andrew: [continues reading] "In other words, the time traveler would not have any reason to go back in time to change the event, so how did it get changed? Now, if youíre still reading this, I would like to point out that this is one of JK Rowlingís more brilliant ideas in the Prisoner of Azkaban. The events that were changed by Harry and Hermione had already happened in their timeline. Buckbeak and Sirius escaped before Harry and Hermione went back in time, and they had already helped them to do it. We never saw Buckbeak executed in the book. Harry, Ron, and Hermione assumed that McNair cut off his head, but we actually saw him cut into a pumpkin. Harry and Hermione did not change anything, they did what was done. They just did not know we actually saw him cut..." [stumbles]
Andrew: "They just did not know what was done which gave them a reason to go back in time and change it. Also it would be just like Dumbledore to know exactly how Buckbeak escaped when he suggested to Hermione that they could save two lives. Keep up the good work, love the show."
That was long.
Eric: Yes, but thereís a flaw in that, which is the Harry seeing Harry across the lake and thinking it was his father because initially there wouldíve had to be someone to start off that chain reaction. Like the first time Harry went back to make him see somebody across the lake and then do something.
Kevin: Yeah, but that goes into the paradox.
Laura: Yeah, but...
Kevin: It falls into a loop.
Eric: Yeah, but
Ben: An infinite loop, right Kevin?
Eric: Iím of the... Iím of the liking that when you go back in time it strays. Stray paradoxes, such as Back to the Future. How timelines change based on different events, if you alter...
Kevin: Yeah, like... Yes.
Eric: I donít think itís just one. I think time itself is comprised of a bazillion different dimensions and every little choice, every little difference that we can make in the world, creates an alternate, separate but different...
Eric: ...universe. And then thatís just like weíre traveling through time by going through all these things. Itís really cool. Watch Sliders, by the way, itís this old show on Fox.
Ben: Letís go to James. Let's go to James. Letís see what James, 105, of Baton Rouge has to say.
Andrew: Thatís pretty old. Are you going to read it?
Ben: Iíll read it.
The whole time discussion was a bit convoluted. I think you should imagine time from each individual as a string. For the trio, set each string on a very long table and have an inch equal an hour. I know theyíd be very long strings, but weíll focus on the end of Year Three. Since Ron has never traveled back through time, his string would be perfectly straight. Since Harry has ever only ever gone back two hours, his would be interrupted and folded back so that there would be two inches overlapped. That is to say there would be two inches where the string was doubled. So yes, Harry would be in two places during two hours. Hermione would have that effect multiple times during the school year, since the whole idea of a Time-Turner was so she could take classes that occurred at the same time. She would have to be in two places at the same time, several times per week. So her string would be folded over in several places. As a matter of fact, if she used the Time-Turner to go back two hours each school day, that would be ten hours a week, and assuming a 44 week school year, four weeks for each summer and Christmas, she..."
Sorry Iím burping here.
"...would have aged an extra 440 hours. So, at the end of the school year she would be older by about two and a half weeks compared to if she had never touched a Time-Turner."
Eric: So basically, itís not even worth celebrating Hermione Grangerís birthday anymore. Because she was hitting that Time-Turner, or if you do celebrate itís...
Kevin: Yeah, but it doesnít Ė it doesnít change the fact that it is on that day.
Kevin: Well, her birthday is on that day.
Eric: Well, thatís true, thatís true, the birthday...
Ben: Iím confused what theyíre saying. How would it make her older?
Eric: Thatís true, yeah. No.
Ben: Because she was alive twice during that time?
Eric: It means - yeah, itís still her birthday. Birth day.
Kevin: The method that personís using to, like, judge time is from like an external observer. Like someone observing someone externally. But because everyoneís within that environment it doesnít bode well for if youíre trying to track time and youíre a participant within the world or within that area.
Eric: So what theory did they use? Which extrapolation method? If you...
Kevin: That, that Ė what theyíre just saying is to count how old the person is.
Kevin: Itís not really based on what stream of time theyíre in because weíre all within the same...
Eric: I know it. I just kind of got an idea of the Greek; the three ladies with the scissors. The Ė what were they? The seers or whoever.
Laura: The Fates?
Eric: Yeah, the Fates, of course, the Fates! Who cut your string and determine when you are going to die. And in Hercules they sing and they dance. And...
Eric: ...thatís it.
Andrew: It was just an interesting way that James put it, I think, using the strings because itís an easier way to demonstrate. Basically, Ben, you asked earlier, what are they saying by how she aged earlier. When sheís going back in time, she has to relive up to the point where she originally went back in time. So sheís still aging. Her aging does not stop. Follow?
Ben: Oh, I see what you are saying.
Ben: I got you.
Kevin: We did mention a problem with this last show, where if you go back in time too far you wonít have enough time to catch up before you die.
Eric: [laughs] Of old age?
Kevin: Of old age. So...
Kevin: ...You know, the repercussions of that.
Andrew: Weíll get to some more rebuttals later.
Ben: Thatís weird. Itís all confusing.
Andrew: It is.
Ben: Iím going to time travel.
Kevin: I got so many emails about people saying we made their head hurt.
Eric: Yeah, and it was an episode without me.
Laura: There were actually people who didnít like the show. There were people who thought that we went in too many circles.
Ben: Well, thatís time travel for you.
Eric: Time is circular.
Eric: History repeats itself, get used to it.
Andrew: Letís get into our main discussion now. I think this might be the final part of our Department of Mysteries discussion.
Andrew: Itís basically a wrap-up of everything else that we did not discuss already, between time and the Veil.
Laura: Well, we talked about, as Andrew said, the Veil and time which I think were the two biggest things that were focused on during the Department of Mysteries chapters. But there were a lot of other little things in there that I think a lot of people are wondering about.
The first of which is why was it so easy for Harry, Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Luna, and the Death Eaters to get into the ministry that night. There was no security. Why was that? Harry even noted that he felt ominous that there was no security; he felt there should have been. Why was there no one in the Ministry that night?
Ben: So JK Rowling could write a story.
Andrew: Well what gets me...
Eric: Closed for writing session.
Ben: No, no okay, if you were to as JK Rowling this question, and I was just being a wisenheimer [pauses], like usual.
Andrew: Oh, Ben, you are a wisenheimer.
Laura: Which you are so often.
Ben: I am such a wisenheimer.
Ben: The reason there was no security; maybe they were distracted with something else. Hmmm.
Laura: Like what?
Kevin: Yeah, I mean.
Andrew: But the entire Ministry of Magic?
Laura: Yeah, okay.
Kevin: But itís not the entire Ministry. Itís somewhat of a workplace. So, I mean go into any of your financial buildings at twelve midnight and youíre going to find maybe three or four people there. A security guard...
Andrew: The janitor.
Kevin: The janitors.
Ben: Right, right.
Kevin: Maybe the person staying late...
Ben: But this is different, though.
Ben: This is the fabled Department of Mysteries.
Ben: This is not the lobby at the Ministry of Magic. This is...
Andrew: Well, thatís the thing that got me. They were able to just go into the elevator and select Department of Mysteries.
Laura: And then just open the door and go in.
Andrew: And they go in.
Laura: Yeah, there was no one guarding it.
Andrew: Itís like even at hotels, exclusive rooms you need a key card to get in. [laughs]
Kevin: Yeah, I was always under the impression there were preparations made by Death Eaters to arrange that.
Eric: Yeah, because theyíre waiting for him.
Laura: Yeah but howíd they do that?
Eric: Well, they have contacts. Lucius Malfoy...
Kevin: Oh Iím sure.
Eric: Itís not like he would pay...
Kevin: Through curses. Yeah I mean...
Laura: What do you think that Malfoy paid off...
Eric: No itís...
Laura: Whatever, that Eric guy to leave, the security guy.
Kevin: Or put him under a curse.
Andrew: Not paid off.
Eric: Or did something, I mean Iím not saying he paid off...
Ben: The Death Eaters arrived first, correct?
Eric: Well, they were waiting for Harry.
Ben: Okay, well maybe itís a case like we saw in Sorcererís Stone, where Quirrell pretty much cleared the pathway for Harry to get to the final area, maybe the Death Eaters had already taken care of the security measures, and made it Ė because, you know, their goal was to lure Harry into the Ministry of Magic, and if thereís extraneous or extra security, then itís going to be more difficult for them to do it. So...
Laura: Yeah, but itís still the Department of Mysteries. How were they able to just walk into it?
Eric: Also, remember they are Voldemort and they canít let the Ministry see Voldemort, or whatever, so they have to protect themselves too. But, no, thatís not the example I want to use. Was it even midnight, guys? I was under the impression that everybody was just out at lunch, or... Everyone: No!
Andrew: It wasnít during the afternoon.
Laura: It was night time.
Eric: Because... Are you sure?
Kevin: Yeah, they were talking about...
Andrew: The sun was rising.
Laura: The sun was rising when Harry...
Andrew: When he got into...
Laura: ...got back to Dumbledoreís office.
Laura: So, it took place during the night.
Eric: Well, okay, but I was under the impression that everybody was wandering back into the lobby right after, you know, the whole fight occurred.
Laura: No, Harry heard people...
Eric: As if coming back from lunch.
Laura: Yeah, he said he heard people going to breakfast and he couldnít believe that people were still enjoying a meal knowing what heíd just been through.
Andrew: Mhm. Yeah.
Eric: Well, that was the next day. I mean at - in the lobby, right after the fountain, you know, exploded, Fudge was like, "Oooh, look the fountain. Yes, I saw him too." But then people were kind of wandering back in like, "What just happened here?" Like, "Where were they?"
Laura: Well, that was... [laughs] Well, that was because...
Eric: Itís not that...
Laura: ...by the time, by the time...
Kevin: They had got alerted by that point.
Laura: Exactly! By the time all this was happening, the Aurors had already been alerted [laughs].
Kevin: They had been monitoring this place, figuring out the...
Ben: Donít you think the Aurors would be, you know, guarding the Department of Mysteries? Especially...
Laura: Exactly. Why was no one there? And why were they able to just open a door and walk in?
Eric: Maybe all the...
Andrew: But then...
Eric: No. Wasn't the Auror on guard in Voldemort's circle or something?
Eric: One of them. He could've just stepped aside and let them in. I don't know. I don't think it's a big issue.
Kevin: But that's what I'm saying.
Laura: There was no one there, though.
Kevin: I was always under the impression that they had taken preparations beforehand.
Kevin: They had placed a couple people under a curse...
Andrew: Right. Right.
Kevin: ...and made it so that come X hour, leave or get lost.
Kevin: And then they can just stroll in.
Eric: Laura, are you even...
Kevin: Those people who are guarding the place are also the same people who...
Ben: That's the only logical explanation.
Kevin: Yeah, I mean.
Laura: Yeah, I suppose.
Ben: Voldemort may have... Of course Voldemort, you know... Voldemort has insiders in the Ministry, so he may have - probably in the Department of Mysteries too. So, he may have had someone come on either...
Kevin: Yeah. They're resourceful people.
Ben: Well, yeah, they are.
Kevin: It's not like they don't know what they're doing. [laughs]
Andrew: I don't know about the elevator, though. Because...
Laura: Yeah, and just the fact that they were able to walk into the Ministry like there was no - it wasn't locked, for instance. They walked into the phone booth and they just said, "We're here to save Sirius," and it prints them off these little badges that say Rescue Mission.
Andrew: Rescue Mission.
Eric: Well, one door was locked, [laughs] and that brings us to...
Laura: Well, actually...
Andrew: No. It just seemed like the only security was when they got into the circular room...
Eric: Well, put it this way.
Andrew: ...where the doors are staying.
Eric: There's a 100,000 people, say, work at the Ministry or whatever or however big it is - however they choose how big it is. They all have to get through the lobby and get where they're going. I approve of the idea of like a club card for getting into the Department of Mysteries, but remember it's also on the same floor as Department of Mysteries. There's what, the old chambers for trial?
Laura: The courtrooms.
Eric: And isn't there Arthur Weasley's office?
Laura: But they aren't used, really, anymore.
Eric: I don't know.
Laura: No, and Arthur's office is not there.
Eric: It's not there? I...
Laura: No it is not.
Eric: I'm all aflutter.
Ben: But you'd think that - you think that even though you can still get up there, that there'd be at least someone guarding the door.
Laura: [laughs] Exactly.
Eric: I don't know.
Andrew: Well that's...
Kevin: Yeah, but that's...
Andrew: The Death Eaters would take that guy out.
Laura: But what's interesting to me is why didn't the Order have anyone there? Because we know that Arthur had been guarding that place, so clearly they'd been taking precautions to guard the Department of Mysteries.
Kevin: Yeah, but I mean count how many Death Eaters were there.
Kevin: Do you think one person would stand a chance against all those Death Eaters?
Laura: Well, no. But still why wasn't...
Kevin: They may have not been mentioned...
Eric: Dumbledore would.
Laura: anyone there?
Kevin: ...but I'm fairly sure that there was some protection, and they just bypassed it through either cursing the person, or...
Ben: Right. But with a place this important - it's like when a robber goes and sticks up a convenience store or a bank. There's always the button that alerts the police under the table. You know? You think...
Kevin: Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. For...
Ben: ...if someone's getting taken out, wouldn't they have a way to alert other people?
Eric: Voldemort and Harry Potter both needed to get into the Department of Mysteries. They're the two strongest forces throughout this entire book series. Did they really need to try?
Kevin: No, it's not - it's not that.
Kevin: It's that the people who are guarding that type of place and who have access to that place are going to be the people they're going to curse and have remove - have to remove the security.
Eric: Voldemort's been concentrating on this Department of Mysteries for the entire year. The Order knows it.
Kevin: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Eric: The Order has been...
Kevin: He's pretty resourceful.
Laura: So why didn't we hear about anyone in the Order being cursed when they were trying to protect the Department of Mysteries? That's what I'm saying.
Eric: That other guy was.
Laura: If anyone - I know. But if anyone had been there that night, then we would have heard about them being cursed as well, unless they flew the coop when they realized what was going on.
Kevin: Well you know Mr. Weasley was guarding it, right?
Kevin: Okay. Well, what if Mr. Weasley - they obviously found Mr. Weasley there very injured. Now the Order - not the Order, but the Ministry, goes "What were you doing there after hours? Why were you there?" Okay? So now they have just blown their cover, making it impossible for them to put another person there because it's going to get highly suspicious...
Laura: But didn't they...
Kevin: ...to the Ministry.
Eric: Kind of like...
Laura: Didn't they cover it up?
Andrew: Yeah, didn't Dumbledore say... Didn't Dumbledore say they made up an excuse for it?
Laura: Yeah, exactly.
Andrew: I'm pretty sure he did.
Laura: Because Sirius...
Kevin: Well, even then. I mean...
Eric: Even if they have an excuse, people are going to turn their eye.
Kevin: For all you know, Arthur was the only one who had the possibility of having access to that area without suspicion.
Andrew: Right. If everyone else is sitting down there, it would look suspicious.
Kevin: Exactly. So the Order probably - that was their last form of defense, and it got blown by him getting injured.
Eric: Attacked by the snake, yeah.
Laura: Good job, Arthur.
Eric: And that's why... No, that's not Arthur's fault. That was Voldemort's plan.
Andrew: And that technically did blow their cover because Arthur couldn't go there again and sit down there.
Eric: That's right, because...
Laura: Well no, obviously not him.
Kevin: So right there you have your explanation for why...
Kevin: ...there wasn't an Order member there.
Andrew: Good point, Kevin, good point!
Laura: It just seems odd to me, though, that there wouldn't be some sort of security on it anyway. Like even when our...
Kevin: But that's what I'm saying.
Laura: Even when Arthur was there, though. Why isn't there some sort of security on this place 24/7?
Eric: Well, another thing, Laura. Remember, everybody's under the impression that everything is sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows. Voldemort's not back, what do we have to protect ourselves from?
Laura: Yeah, that's true.
Eric: That's a strong mindset of everybody. Strong mindset.
Laura: Well, the next thing that we should probably move on to is whenever they enter the Department of Mysteries, the first thing they come across is the brain room. And we saw that Ron got attacked by one of the brains when he yelled "Accio Brain," which I found kind of amusing. [laughs] But Madam Pomfrey said that "thoughts can leave deeper scarring than almost anything else." Now are we talking physically, or does he have some kind of mental scarring? Because it doesn't seem to me like Jo would kind of drop that little hint for no reason.
Ben: I think it has to be mental, because...
Kevin: Yeah. Definitely.
Eric: No, it's very physical too.
Ben: How could a thought harm you physically?
Laura: Well, no, she's talking about how he had scars on his arms from where they had wrapped themselves around him.
Eric: When they had wrapped around. And, yeah. It's not just emotional scarring.
Eric: I think that's very physical. Thoughts too.
Eric: They're not just memories.
Eric: They're thoughts trapped in the brains that had made them. It's kind of like - if a person passes away, they have all these memories of, you know, everywhere they've been in their life, different life experiences.
Laura: Well, yeah. The mind's very powerful.
Eric: But nobody can see them! How can you retrieve those thoughts? They're gone with that person, they're exact things. But trapped in this brain room, in these things, all these thoughts - maybe it's all the hateful thoughts that, you know? But all these thoughts are trapped in this juicy brain that's going to come out and lash at you, and I don't know. She said that it was thoughts that were attacking him, and I would think that would have a strict physical impact too. Because have you ever had thoughts come at you? [laughs] I mean, how would...
Laura: Well actually, a good example, a good example of it is, have you ever heard of when people die, the...
Eric: Never heard of that.
Laura: ...electricity that... [laughs] Eric!
Eric: Sorry, it was just a question.
Laura: When people die, it has been accounted that the electricity released from their brains has been powerful enough to stop clocks.
Eric: So when their...
Laura: So that it stops the clock at the exact time of their death. So I think it goes to show that thoughts could be powerful enough to physically harm someone as well as mentally. My question is, does Ron posses those thoughts now? Does he have memories from the brain that attacked him that at one time belonged to someone else?
Kevin: I doubt it.
Eric: I doubt it.
Ben: But how do we know where those brains come from? I mean...
Laura: Well, yeah. Exactly.
Ben: It seems to me like each part of the Ministry has it's own - each part of the Department of Mysteries studies its own things. There's the death, love, all of that stuff. So, what do you think they're studying? What do you think they're studying - are they studying thoughts, or what are they...
Laura: They're studying the mind, I believe.
Ben: Or memories, or what?
Laura: I mean, there's a huge - the mind was a huge theme in Order of the Phoenix. I mean, just because of Harry's Occlumency lessons.
Ben: And the mind is a mystery too. So...
Laura: Yeah, and Snape essentially told Harry that the mind is not...
Eric: An open book.
Laura: ...a book to be opened and read at will. It's got to be studied very, very closely, I suppose. Differently. And I don't know how exactly they came across these brains, if they just yanked them out of dead people's heads or what.
Eric: Well, what did... [laughs] What did - crap, I forgot my question.
Laura: What did they...
Eric: Wasn't Ron already delusional? Wasn't he already kind of messed up when the brain started attacking him?
Laura: Yeah, he'd been cursed by a Death Eater. And I thought that was interesting because the reaction that he has is sort of similar to the reaction Dumbledore has from drinking the green potion in Half-Blood Prince. They were both kind of delusional and out of it, and both started saying, you know, "No, no, stop it, Harry," and trying to get Harry to help them, and Harry couldn't in those scenarios.
Eric: Well, whereas nothing was attacking Dumbledore visibly, but a brain, [laughs] a giant brain with thoughts was lashing at Ron.
Laura: It doesn't matter, though!
Eric: It does!
Laura: It's still facts, though.
Eric: True. It's a brilliant parallel. I think it's cool.
Laura: And this is why I'm kind of - I don't know. I just kind of wonder if Ron somehow has some sort of important memory that will play a role in Book Seven? Something that Harry needs to know?
Eric: I don't think that's it at all.
Eric: You know...
Laura: Why not, though?
Eric: "Where'd you learn this, Ron?" "Oh, it was when that brain attacked me. I learned all this stuff that I've just had..."
Laura: Well, no. [laughs]
Eric: "...sitting around in my head for two years."
Kevin: Yeah. And didn't mention it.
Eric: Yeah, I didn't mention it.
Laura: It wouldn't be like that. It would - but it almost seems like there are a lot of things that happened at the end of Order of the Phoenix that we didn't hear anything about in Half-Blood Prince.
Eric: It's true. It's true. But we did hear...
Ben: Like hat about the guy who turned into a baby? What kind of crap is that? I still don't get that.
Laura: Yeah. [laughs]
Eric: His head.
Andrew: The Death Eater? Yeah.
Eric: His head was de-aging, and then aging again. That was pretty messed up.
Andrew: We talked about that last week.
Eric: "You can't hurt a baby!" But no. The whole idea, and why I brought that up is because I just think that when Ron was in the hospital ward, he was clearly getting remedies for that curse, and I think it was just all washed off. I think that the thoughts, all the trauma from the thoughts.
Laura: I don't think so.
Eric: I don't think...
Kevin: I think there would be some residue.
Laura: There was going to be something left there.
Eric: But thoughts?
Kevin: There's got be something in his head.
Eric: You've got to look at the way the brain was in contact with Ron. The thoughts were burning into his skin and stuff, and lashing at him, and grabbing him; but it didn't really do any - we didn't see it affect his mind. He was just really under that other curse and he was really scared.
Laura: Not that we know of. [laughs]
Kevin: We don't know; that's a point. We don't know of anything happening to his mind, but they alluded to it.
Laura: We only see - yeah. We only see the world through Harry's eyes, so we can't sit here and say, "I know what's going on in Ron's mind," because it's not from his point of view.
Eric: That's true. I don't know that there is much of an argument that that thing really affected him, emotionally or for a long time.
Laura: I don't know, I just think that the mind is an exceedingly powerful thing.
Eric: Oh, yes.
Laura: It really is.
Laura: And I think it's pretty shortsighted to think that that's - that you could be attacked by a brain like that and not have any sort of repercussions, physical or mental.
Eric: Well, he had a lot of physical repercussions. He was torn up, it was pretty dirty, but...
Laura: But we didn't hear that much about that. That's the thing.
Eric: Which is true.
Laura: It seemed like Madam Pomfrey was going to lengths to cure the scarring as best she could, but she said...
Ben: Well, how do you think all this is going to come full-circle, is what I want to know. I mean, how is that going to play to the...
Eric: Ummm, Ben? I hate to let you down: We don't know. [laughs]
Ben: I know, that's why I said how do you "think," okay? No reason to be a smart aleck.
Eric: I don't mean to.
Ben: I'm the wisenheimer here, okay? I'm just kidding.
[Ben and Laura laugh]
Ben: What I'm saying is, I don't know how - think about all the stuff she has to incorporate. Something like that...
Laura: Yeah, there's a lot.
Ben: ...seems like it is going to go to the wayside just because she doesn't have - I mean, unless it's really pivotal. It's interesting. What did he get from the Department of Mysteries? But the fact that it went ignored in Book Six and nothing really was carried through. You think if Ron had some thought that was essential that it would somehow get mentioned.
Andrew: Stood out?
Andrew: It would've happened by now.
Laura: Well, I don't know because if you think back on all the books, there have been tons of little things that no one thought anything of at the time. And then a couple of books later that thing becomes huge. There are probably hundreds of little clues in Half-Blood Prince that we all missed. Just little things. Little things that people have said, descriptions about the way someone looked or where someone went.
Eric: Yes, but when have we seen Ron distribute any kind of extra knowledge than he would have by being his slightly cynical self?
Laura: I don't think - I don't know. The thing is, I think if something like that were to happen she would try to draw attention away from it during the sixth book, because she drew attention away from the Department of Mysteries.
Eric: She drew attention away from everything.
Laura: Exactly, because there is clearly something kind of big going on. [laughs]
Eric: [laughs] There's no doubting it's plausible that Ron has some thoughts from this thing, I just don't think it's likely.
Click here to go to page two