MuggleCast | The #1 Most-Listened to Harry Potter Podcast

MuggleCast 69 Transcript

Show Intro

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[Intro music plays]

Andrew: Because Jo obviously listens to Micah, thank you, Maja, 15, of Slovenia, this is MuggleCast Episode 69 for December 22nd, 2006.

[Music continues to play]

Andrew: Hello, everyone! Welcome to this special Friday night edition of MuggleCast. There is no time to waste, we've got to get right into it. I'm Andrew Sims.

Jamie: I'm Jamie Lawrence.

Kevin: I'm Kevin Steck.

Eric: I'm Eric Scull.

Laura: I'm Laura Thompson.

Micah: And I'm Micah Tannenbaum.

[Music continues to play]


[NBC "Nightly News" music plays]

Micah: Breaking news at this hour, we have a new photo of Dan Radcliffe currently on display at the Michael Birt photo exhibition in Fulham, London.

I'm just kidding.

The real breaking news: JK Rowling yesterday revealed the title of the seventh and final installment in the Harry Potter series, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. There is no word yet on a release date, but people should note it took Jo roughly six months after revealing the title of Half-Blood Prince to announce the date it would hit bookshelves and then another seven months before the book actually came out.

However, I don't think we'll have to wait this long this time around. Plenty of discussion on all of this later in the show. Hopefully, Jo updates her Diary in the next few days to share some of her thoughts.

Speaking of Book Seven, Slash Film has a new interview with Prisoner of Azkaban director Alfonso Cuaron and another film director Guillermo Del Toro. In it, Cuaron discusses whether Harry could possibly die in the final book. He said:

"I don't know, I had this same conversation with someone the other day about that. In one hand it makes sense, in the other hand - how do you finish Harry Potter if you kill Harry? What is the resolution of the tale? How is she going to finish the seven books and not have an temptation to do an eighth book? I don't know. And that kind of stuff, I have a really good relationship with JK but I don't mess with that."

He goes on to mention a recent phone call he received from Jo congratulating him on his film Children of Men. He said:

"She really loved Children of Men. And we started talking and I said that it was a tough process doing the movie because of the brutality of what you're doing, of what we're picturing. And then she conveyed to me, 'yes, yes, it's been hard for me but when you do writing about the hard stuff, you have to sleep with that.' But I don't go into details."

That's all the news for this December 22nd, 2006 edition of MuggleCast. Happy Holidays everyone! Back to the show!

Andrew: All right, thank you Micah-Tan the Anchorman.

Micah: You're welcome.

Happy Holidays

Andrew: You know, it's Episode 69 of MuggleCast and this was originally going to be our Christmas show and it still is for about...

Jamie: So, Merry Christmas.

Kevin: [laughs]Merry Christmas.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah, so Merry Christmas.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Happy Holidays, actually. Lets be fair. Happy Holidays, everyone.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: We hope you all get what you want. That just about does it for the holiday part of the show because, as everyone knows by now, the title of Book Seven was released. I can't believe I'm actually saying, "The title of Book Seven was released." This is the beginning of the end, guys.

Kevin: It is.

Jamie: It is.

Andrew: And I forgot to boast that we have six people here in the room this week, in the studio. We got a little extra MuggleCast money thanks to those Step Up ads, so we flew everyone out. Except for Ben, he had a debate this week. But everyone is here, everyone is in the studio. We had a little holiday party a little bit earlier, featured soda and Doritos.

Micah: Try the eggnog.

Laura: It was very festive.

Andrew: Eggnog. I didn't like the eggnog.

[Kevin laughs]

Eric: Yeah, but the ham was to die for.

Andrew: [laughs] Yes. Ben sent it direct from Kansas.

[Everyone laughs]

Kevin: He slaughtered it himself.

Andrew: He killed a pig for us.

[Laura and Eric laugh]

Eric: He killed a boar.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: So, we thank him in advance for that. So... [laughs] So...

Eric: That was very nice.


Andrew: We'll get to our Book Seven discussion in a minute. We just want to remind everyone first to vote for us on Podcast Alley, and of course the new month is coming up. So don't forget to place your vote once a month, just one vote. And we like being up top there to help spread the word about the show.

There is also a new way to help us spread the word about the show, Digg Podcasts. Over at they have a new Podcasting section. We want to get up in the ranks over there too, so people who are into Harry Potter that visit social bookmarking websites like Digg can subscribe to our show and join the craze. So, that's that.

And also, this is very important, MuggleCast t-shirts are going out of sale. This is the final week that we can ask everyone to purchase a MuggleCast t-shirt, like the GoDaddy and Step Up ads that you heard at the beginning of this show, the t-shirts help support the show week to week. Like for example, flying everyone out here to my house to record the show.

Eric: Yep.

Andrew: And it also helps fund our holiday parties, although next year I think we're going to skip out on the eggnog.

Jamie: And our professional audio equipment as well, don't forget that.

Andrew: Audio equipment, yeah. We have top notch audio equipment. So, we thank everyone. And if you're thinking about it, now is the time to buy, because they are going out of sale quick. And then once sales have stopped, we will figure out any problems that people are having with their orders.

Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

Andrew: All right, so, once again, Harry Potter - the title to Harry Potter Book Seven was released today, Thursday. We're recording Thursday. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. [pronounces as "hollows"]

Jamie: Hallows.

Kevin: Hallows.

Laura: Hallows, not hollows.

Eric: Hallows.

Andrew: Hallows. [pronounces as hollows again]

Eric: Hallows! Don't make the same mistake.

Andrew: Whatever.

Eric: Don't make the same mistake.

Andrew: You know, I'll tell you what, guys. I don't even know where to start here. I guess we'll start with number one on our list, [laughs] seems the most logical.

Eric: Well, wait a minute. What about us? What do we think about it? Seriously.

Andrew: Here's what I immediately thought: Sorcerer's Stone, an item, Chamber of Secrets, a place, Prisoner of Azkaban, a place, Goblet of Fire, an item, Order of the Phoenix, a...

Jamie: [laughs] How is Prisoner of Azkaban a place, Andrew?

Laura: [laughs] How is a person a...

Andrew: Or a place, a place.

Jamie: No, a person. A person.

Laura: [laughing] Prisoner of Azkaban is a person.

Kevin: It's a person.

Andrew: [laughs] You know, I've been out all day. I'm just picturing the Azkaban. Anyway, Goblet of Fire, an item, Order of the Phoenix, a group, Half-Blood Prince, a person.

Jamie: A place.

Andrew: Yeah, and a place.

[Laura and Micah laugh]

Andrew: What does this mean? What... Could this be a person, place, or item?

Jamie: Or thing? It could be anything, that's the thing.

Andrew: It's very interesting. Yes.

Jamie: Couldn't it - I mean, we only really found out, apart from the obvious ones. Goblet of Fire is pretty surely a goblet, the Order of the Phoenix, an Order is usually a group of people, Prisoner of Azkaban was obviously a person. I think she's - Chamber of Secrets a chamber of secrets, incidentally.

[Andrew and Kevin laugh]

Jamie: But we still have some idea. Philosopher's Stone, we can do some research and find out. The only real research we can do into Deathly Hallows is etymo...

Laura: Pulling up our dictionaries, basically.

Jamie: Etymological, finally got it. Yeah, exactly. And working out the words. It could be anything really. I don't know if she's... And she has clearly done that to enhance the mystique surrounding Book Seven, because we could tell slightly on the other books. But in this, we're just, we've just got no clue.

Laura: When I first saw it I was - I didn't feel disappointed or anything, but when I looked at it I was...I didn't think that it was nearly as precise as any of the other titles have been, I thought it was a lot more enigmatic. And we started getting all these e-mails pouring in with all these suggestions and ideas and stuff, and when we started going out and looking up "hallow" and what it actually could mean and the actual connotations behind it, it started to kind of take full form and kind of - all these theories started coming through, like could Hallows be Horcruxes because the definition of "hallow" is "to make holy or to consecrate." It could be a holy item, and obviously a Horcrux is something holy to Voldemort. So, it could obviously be surrounding those because obviously Horcruxes can be deathly. They're created by killing, so.

Andrew: Right.

Laura: That's one idea.

Holy Trouble?

Micah: Do you think JK Rowling is going to get in trouble for referencing holy items?

Eric: Well, holy, I have a second definition for "hallows" which means to respect or honor greatly or revere. Which kind of made me think of respected magic and the reverent magic as in the ancient magic, and things that we don't even really know about. But the Hallows being this respected, kind of again enigmatic. But the whole mysticism behind all these events that have taken place have to do with Voldemort and his Horcruxes. And the first word Deathly just being Harry crossing as close as he has ever come in between life and death. And that...

Jamie: Do you think that that means... Sorry, I thought you were finished.

Eric: No, no. That's fine. I mean...

Is This Title All Encompassing?

Jamie: I was going to say, do you think that that means that this title is more sort of overarching for the series as a whole rather than specific to its book? Because it just seems like it could be an umbrella term for the entire - the key to the...

Eric: It's true.

Jamie: ...entire... If you understand the title behind it, than you understand the secret to the book. Because, maybe, I don't know.

Eric: You know, I think it could be both. I think JKR may have become so good at it that she has just done Deathly Hallows being something, as we have in a rebuttal-type thing, for this book but also an umbrella term like you said, Jamie.

Jamie: Okay.

Eric: I think it's just, yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Micah: Well, do you think she is taking creative license with the word too?

Andrew: She could be.

Taking Creative License

Micah: Because when you look it up, "hallow" is usually used as a verb, isn't it?

Jamie: Oh, yeah. I mean, she has clearly made, you know, Deathly Hallows isn't a phrase you'd ever find anywhere else apart from the title of Book Seven. It's like, that is the thing. She seems to have - however much you read it into the dictionary definitions, that's clearly an etymology that she has created. You know?

Laura: We actually... Oh sorry, Jamie. I didn't mean to talk over you there. [laughs]

Jamie: That's okay. I was just saying things, I couldn't think of anything either.

Laura: Andrew will kill me for that later.

When The Veil Between The Worlds Grows Thin

Laura: This was actually from Alicia, and she said that she looked up Hallow on Google and she said that, "By Google's definition, a Hallow is the beginning of the witches' year, when the veil between the worlds grows thin and the spirits of the dead may return to earth."

Jamie: Emphasis on the word veil?

Laura: Yes. Veil.

Jamie: Emphasis huge on the word veil.

[Eric laughs]

Laura: This has got me so excited.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: Because you know that I love to harp on about how the Department of Mysteries is very, very important and how the Veil is going to play a pretty big role in Book Seven. So, is it possible that people are going to actually start [laughs] coming back from behind the veil in the seventh book like all these spirits?

Andrew: I just can't believe that, because then the book just really becomes unreal, and like we were saying earlier, if Jo is skewing the words a little bit, then I think that this is definitely a possible theory. It's excellent. [laughs]

Eric: I just don't know. I mean, this book is - this has got to be a massive book. You know what? I'm scared, my primary emotion right now is scared, and do you know why?

Andrew: Because you're going to be locked up in your room reading it for four days? Weeks?

[Jamie laughs]

Eric: No, I'm not scared, I'm actually looking forward to that. But I'm scared, because if you think about it, Jo has typically been, I would say a little courteous, to give us...

Jamie: A clue?

Eric: Yes, she has killed characters. She has killed characters in the past, but usually she's done it at the end of the book. Right now, with Book Seven, we have a death on the front cover.

Laura: I don't think...

Jamie: What do you mean?

Deathly Discussion

Eric: We have a death on the front cover. Deathly Hallows.

Jamie: No, it could just be descriptive. It could just be descriptive.

Eric: No, but the word death is on the front cover. We have a death on the front cover.

Laura: No, it says deathly, which implies something can cause death, and it doesn't necessarily mean that there's saying that there's a death, although I'm sure there will be. But...

Eric: [ laughs] I...

Micah: I think if they're representative of the Horcruxes, then there definitely could be what Laura just said in terms of representing death.

Jamie: Death to the Hallows, yeah.

Eric: It has everything to do with immortality and life and death, and it seems like all the stuff that Voldemort's been doing since Book One. I was thinking about that. Sorcererís Stone or Philosopher's Stone, this whole series has really been about - you think Deathly Hallows has been this really sinister, doesn't really fit with the rest of the series type thing, but it's like a coming to realization that it has always been about life and death.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jamie: It has, yeah.

All Hallows Eve

Laura: Do you think there's any connection between - we know that Lily and James died on Halloween, which is also known as All Hallows Eve. Do you think there's any connection there?

Eric: Well, it's just the etymology of the word. I mean, All Hallows Eve being... I mean, you could make the connection to...

Laura: Right, but it depends on how she's using the word.

Eric: Yeah, that's true.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Doesn't it come back to Alicia's point that Halloween is the day when the boundaries between the...

Laura: Dead and the living.

Jamie: Dead and the living, yeah, are the weakest.

Andrew: Jamie, maybe, you were saying how the title might encapsulate all seven books.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Maybe it has multiple meanings for just the one book.

Jamie: What? Oh, yeah. I mean...

Andrew: We also have to think about - we'll get to this in a minute - but we also have to think about that she was debating. This was one of two.

Micah: Three.

Andrew: Three, three. She had three titles, and this is one of them.

Jamie: Yeah. Yeah.

Micah: Don't worry, she told me the other two.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: So, at some point I'll let you guys know what they are.

Andrew: Okay.

Jamie: That was good. They'll be on e-Bay later tonight.

Does Jo Really Listen to Micah?

Laura: Micah, has she told you the release date yet, Micah?

Kevin: Yeah, it's very similar.

Micah: No. Yeah, where is the love here, guys? How many times have I asked her?

Andrew: Let's hand Micah the props that he deserves. Micah, what exactly did you say last week on the show?

Micah: Well, I said last week at the end of the news that I noticed she had updated her site after I had asked for something. Kevin, Laura and I were having a discussion about, I think it was innocents and traitors, and I mentioned something about her updating her site because it had been so long since October 31. And sure enough, she did her little diary update last week.

Andrew: And you know what? At that point I was convinced that there was not going to be anything coming.

Micah: Right.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: You know, as a surprise.

Micah: And then at the end of the news last week, I said, "You know, she made an update, maybe I'll have to ask for something big for Christmas from her."

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: It's a few days before Christmas, and what do we get? I don't know.

Andrew: Micah, there's a weird pattern going on. I'm, you know...

Micah: Think about what happened the first time I asked in my "What's Buggin' Micah" section. A few days later, she updates her site. I mention something about Halloween, she updates her site. This is going four for four right here.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: I don't know.

Andrew: On the other hand

Laura: You know what, Micah? You know what I really appreciate? You had her update her site on my birthday.

Kevin: Awww.

Laura: That was really nice of you. I really appreciated that.

Eric: Awww.

Micah: Well, that wasn't my intention, but... [laughs]

Laura: Thanks.

Eric: Send your payments to Micah and he will have Jo update her site for you.

Laura: On your birthday.

Eric: Specifically for you, yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: You guys have any other theories about the title?

Back to the Title Discussion

Kevin: Well, I was thinking, and I think I said it to Laura, I think that the meaning of the title is embedded, once again, in the middle of the book. There's not much we can say - no, there's not much we can say looking from...

Jamie: Actually Kevin, it's embedded in the spine of the book.

[Everyone laughs]

Kevin: No, it's, what I'm saying is, we knew with prior books. There were hints given to us in the previous books that we had read that could allows us to make theories on the next title. I think that we haven't seen any of what this title means, if that makes sense? Clearly.

Laura: Well, yeah. You kind of mentioned to me today that you thought it was like Half Blood Prince, where we didn't really know what that meant.

Kevin: Right.

Laura: Until we read the book. Because a lot of people kind of assumed it was an actual prince, and it turned out not to be.

Eric: Well, kind of.

Jamie: Yeah, yeah. The thing is, we can so easily misinterpret titles, but this seems like, I don't know. For me, it sums up the mood of the, well, I assume it's going to sum up the mood of the book.

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Micah: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jamie: But you know, Eric, as you were saying, it's got death on the front. But more so, it's just got, you can't call a book "Something, Something and the Deathly Hallows" without having destruction, death, and not a very happy time throughout the entire book. I don't know. I think - sorry, go on. I can't actually think of it.

Eric: I almost don't think I would want to read - I mean, I don't expect to read any happy moments in this book. Can you imagine reading a happy scene in a book called Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows? Or imagine the press for it?

Micah: So, what about the wedding?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Well, the wedding, hopefully nothing bad happens.

Jamie: It'll be like Kill Bill.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: It's going to be a blood bath. Yeah.

Eric: The bride gets shot.

Jamie: A deadly wizard assassination squad.

Andrew: What makes me a little skeptical about analyzing the title so much, and I know that's what people want to hear right now, but the Half-Blood Prince title - I think we've talked about this before - it doesn't really sum up the book. It was one part of the book, but it wasn't the main part. That's really what all of the books have been about so far. That's what the titles have been.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: And then suddenly we jump onto Half-Blood Prince, which is just a book that Harry finds. I mean, he uses it to his advantage, but... I don't...

Kevin: Yeah, but don't you think there's a possibility that it will be a pivotal part of the series? I mean...

Andrew: I think it will, but I don't even know if it's a pivotal... Oh! You mean The Half-Blood Prince?

Kevin: Right. For all you know, the reason why she named it that is because he is going to play such a large role in the next book that you can't name it any other thing. You know what I mean?

Andrew: That's true. That is true, yeah.

Jamie: Hey!

Kevin: She's trying to draw your focus to the fact that hey, although I'm just breezing over this and lightly touching this topic, you know, it's going to play a big role in the series.

Micah: Well, I agree...

Jamie: Digressing completely... Sorry, go.

Micah: No. I was going to actually say that I agree with you Jamie about this title is more, to me, it seems like it's more all encompassing about what this final book is going to be about as opposed to...

Andrew: Uh huh.

Micah: ...Half-Blood Prince or Order of the Phoenix, which was about one specific item or one specific group or one specific person. I don't see Deathly Hallows as being necessarily a group of people or something like that that we're going to learn about. I think it's more all encompassing in the sense of the book.

Kevin: Like a theme?

Micah: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: I think that's possible as well. I just liked it because I think it automatically sets a very, very dark tone, and I think that's something that the last book definitely needs.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Also...

Laura: I'm very happy with it.

Eric: It'll just be in like the press. Like in the lines for the seventh book, seeing all the ten- year old kids, you know the eight-year olds and the Harry Potter wizards with their books and it's like, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows and all these kids are with them, you know? That'll just look interesting.

Laura: You know what though? I like that.

Andrew: It's about time. [laughs]

Laura: Because I think that children are greatly underestimated in what they can handle.

Andrew: Uh huh.

Laura: And I think that saying that kids can't handle death is ridiculous because they absolutely can.

Eric: There's clearly a... There's one thing, you know, to say kids can't handle death and there's another thing for destroying their childhood, or not destroying, but taking them out of the childhood scheme of things. Childhood is an amazing thing and when you're playing to that audience, you know? I never thought that Harry Potter was a children's book but a lot of people I guess, you know, did and, you know, Deathly Hallows is like, to understand some of the real serious sinister - it was just more sinister than I was prepared for. I mean...

Kevin: Yeah, but like every book it's sort of up to the parents to make the judgment call on whether it's appropriate for their children.

Eric: It's true.

Kevin: So, like any other book, you know, the parents should be reading it first saying, you know, "Is this what I want my children to be reading or not? And if so then I'll let them have it, otherwise I'll let them wait a couple of years."

Jamie: You see...

Laura: Yeah. It's the parents choice. Absolutely.

Jamie: But... Yeah, and let them decide for themselves.

Kevin: It's just a parents responsibility. Yep.

Jamie: But.. But... You know, children should be taught early in life that, you know, life is a complete disappointment to them. It's just full of, you know, problems.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: No, it's true.

Laura: It is.

Jamie: And, you know, death in a book is, you know? No okay, seriously though. I think, and this could be a very obvious point but I think we need to remember, and I often forget, that, you know, for example the title of the fifth book isn't Order of the Phoenix. It is still Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, so you need to remember that, you know, all of these are linked to Harry Potter. He encounters all of them, and every single one. So, it's like the Deathly Hallows, it could be not descriptive because it's Harry Potter and the.... So, Deathly Hallows couldn't be a metaphor for something or a description of whatever because it wouldn't make sense saying Harry Potter and the. So, I mean I'd like to say that it's a physical thing or a place.

Eric: Or a set of things.

Jamie: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Laura: I hope it's not a place. I really hope it's not a place.

Jamie: It's still identified with Harry, you know?

Eric: It's right next to Godric's Hollow there. Deathly Hallows.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

[Andrew and Laura laugh]

Laura: Gosh.

Andrew: There's like a sign.

Laura: Yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: Godric's Hollow this way.

Laura: Deathly Hallow this way.

Andrew: Deathly Halos this way. Hallows.

Laura: Halo? [laughs]

Eric: Halos. We're going to be saying that like Deathly Hallows, you know, if we accidentally slip up and say Deathly Hollows, Deathly Shallows. Andrew and I were talking. We both said Deathly Shallows today. I mean, we know...

Andrew: I didn't say shallow. I'm just telling everyone now, I'm going to screwing it up a lot

Laura: Yeah, hollows.

Andrew: Because all I can think of is Halo the video game whenever I read that title.

[Micah and Laura laugh]

Andrew: So...

Eric: Deathly Halo.

[Jamie laughs]

Hallows vs. Hollow

Micah: Well, maybe we should address that for a moment because a lot of people wrote in about it.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: A lot of people seem to be confusing.

Kevin: Oh, yeah.

Jamie: You're saying that Harry and Ron just sit on their X-Box 360s for the entire thing...

Eric: ...and play Halo.

Jamie: ...and play Halo.

Andrew: No, Godric's Hollow you're talking about, right?

Micah: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: Well, there's...

Micah: They're not the same word.

Eric: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Laura: Now, a lot of people wrote in saying, "Oh, do you think this has a connection to Godric's Hollow?" And I'm like, "No." Well, I mean it could.

[Andrew and Eric laugh]

Kevin: Well, it's an understanding...

Andrew: That's a nice response. Laura. [laughs]

Laura: It's an understandable mistake.

Kevin: Yeah, it's legitimate.

Laura: But, I think that everyone needs to remember that "hallows" and "hollows" are not the same thing.

Eric: Well, and it's kind of though. I mean it's not kind of, but in the same context it shares context. When you think of hollow as being empty and revered, a silent place like a church of revered magic, an ancient magic and things like that. Hollow, Godric's Hollow, can that tie it back to it? Am I solving the mystery? I don't know, but what I'm saying is that, you know, hollow as being empty and, you know, foreboding kind of just adds to the mysticism, the feel of what I imagine the seventh book is going to be like.

Most Ominous Title of the Three?

Andrew: Right. Maybe, you know I'm thinking about it now. Maybe this is the most ominous title of all three.

Laura: It is.

Kevin: It is, yeah.

Laura: I think so.

Andrew: [laughs] Well, we don't know the other two but...

Jamie: Or seven you mean. Oh, sorry I thought you...

Kevin: Oh, okay. All of them.

Laura: Oh, I thought you were talking about all the books.

Kevin: Yeah, same here.

Andrew: [laughs] No.

Jamie: [laughs] Andrew, you really need to re, you know, think.

Andrew: No, but it's true. If she's had three titles, what was the deciding factor on this one? It might be because it's the most ominous, the one that gets the fans most excited because it's so broad. You can't...

Jamie: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Andrew: You're going to be even more excited. For example, if Half Blood Prince was called, now I'm just speculating. If Half Blood Prince was called The Search for Horcruxes or something. Or just Harry Potter and the Horcruxes.

Eric: Harry Potter and the Great Snog Adventure.

Laura: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: Harry Potter and Severus Snape's Old Potions Book. [laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Kevin: But, I think that she may have chosen it just for that reason.

Jamie: Yeah, do you... But also, do you think it is because, like if you have Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets and you release that title, you can't then go back and write out the Chamber of Secrets even if you hated it so much. But, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, you know, you can - it's the kind of title where you can make it mean anything. So, perhaps she isn't committing herself more then like if she had Harry Potter and the Final Showdown in Godric's Hollow because then, you know, she can't go back. And also, releasing a title she can't change it. This is absolutely set in stone now.

Andrew: Right.

Jamie: So, I think it's also because she just doesn't want to commit herself to one story line because she must be writing Book Seven, you know, completely different than the other ones where she has to tie up all the loose ends. She has to go back, change stuff.

Eric: Well, just on...

Andrew: Yeah. Well, that's interesting about this book.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Because the stuff that you're writing, you're finished with and there's no going back in a future book to change someone's view of a certain topic or whatever.

Jamie: Well, precisely, yeah.

Eric: Not that she really does that.

Andrew: No, but you know what I mean. Like, once you write something in this book, for example - well I don't know. I can't think of anything right now, but it's just everything is set in stone. It's final and there's no going back whereas with the other books maybe someone's opinion could change on something. Or...

Kevin: Yeah. She had room to finagle the characters. Yeah.

Laura: There's no room. Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. What's in this book is going to be Harry Potter forever.

Eric: That's true.

Andrew: That's how she's going to leave it.

Jamie: Exactly, yeah.

Eric: It's true.

Laura: There's no room for clarification outside of interviews and such, essentially.

Kevin: No.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Which I can't even imagine what she's going to do around press time for interviews and stuff.

Laura: Oh, man.

Kevin: And even then, the interviews you can't really expect a normal reader to be reading the interviews.

Laura: No.

Andrew: Right.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Mhm.

Kevin: When your normal person just picks up the book and starts reading it, they're going to get an impression of the book based on what's written in it and she has to make sure it's correct. Otherwise, you know?

Jamie: And also, it kind of, I don't know, it has a metaphysical meaning, I'm sure, over just the literary meaning as well. She could argue that it represents - I mean, if you take the word "hallow" to mean the veil between the worlds, than you can also take it to mean the divide between good and evil, the divide between Harry and Voldemort.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jamie: And that, you know, it could mean so many things on so many different levels. Which I think is a good thing. I don't think it's good to have Harry Potter and the... and then...

Eric: And then specific...

Jamie: ...and then exactly what's going to happen...

Eric: Yeah.

Jamie: Or one pivotal thing. So, I think it's a very, very, very interesting title.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: Well, I have a question.

Laura: That said...oh, go ahead, Micah.

Andrew: Yes, Micah.

Are Hallows the Horcruxes?

Micah: Well, if you take it to mean that Hallows are the Horcruxes and you take the word before it, Deathly, as in causing death. I mean, you look at the fact that R.A.B died from the locket, Dumblehands - Dumbledore's hand was dying...

[Andrew laughs]

Micah: ...from the ring and maybe he was doomed to die anyway, and you think...

Jamie: Wait, Micah.

Micah: Yeah?

Jamie: Sorry. I don't - are you sure? R.A.B didn't actually die from...

Laura: I don't think we know how he died.

Jamie: The locket...

Eric: Well he...

Jamie: It didn't kill him. It just...

Eric: It could have been in the pursuit of Horcruxes.

Laura: Yeah, he could have...

Jamie: Oh, I think he was - yeah.

Micah: Or after he destroyed it he died from...

Kevin: Something related.

Micah: Whatever.

Eric: Maybe...

Jamie: Yeah.

Laura: I always assumed he died from drinking...

[Kevin laughs]

Laura: ...the stuff.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Well, my point is perhaps tied to each Horcrux is going to be somebody's death.

Eric: Oh.

Andrew: Hmmm.

Micah: Perhaps you can't destroy a Horcrux without somebody dying. I mean, perhaps Harry just got lucky in Chamber of Secrets with the diary.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: So, you create one by killing somebody and then somebody else has to die for it? That kind of sucks.

Micah: It's just a suggestion.

[Laura laughs]

Jamie: That's one way of putting it, yeah.

Eric: Well, no, I mean, that's cool. But, that would really stink if that were the case. Could be.

When Will Book Seven Be Released?

Laura: That said, do you think we're going to be seeing Book Seven next year?

Kevin: Oh, geez.

Andrew: Yeah, this is going...

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: go into a whole discussion.

Kevin: Same.

Jamie: I would love to not see it next year. It's over after this.

Laura: I know.

Jamie: It is actually over.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: It's so sad, but...

Andrew: And just the timing would be bad in the sense of school and the movie next summer.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: And...

Eric: That's what I hate about it.

Laura: What do you mean school? No one is going to be in school.

Andrew: Well, hold on, nobody...

Eric: They totally ruined...

Andrew: Now, wait a second. Yeah, what? Go ahead, Eric, finish that.

Eric: They ruined 7-7-07. We talked about this. By doing a movie on 7-12 they don't - they aren't going to do the book on 7-7-07, and if they do it'll be really stupid because everything will be jumbled. There will be no way to get the information across, what was good, what you like about it, everybody will be forced to condense their opinions and not elaborate on anything. And they'll - it's too much too soon.

Kevin: Yeah, but I mean...

Micah: But I think, as Jamie so eloquently put it last time, she can't just pull the book out of her *BLEEP*

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Oh, thank you, Micah.

Micah: You know what I mean? If it's not ready by then, it's not ready.

Jamie: Oh, yeah. Well, it's true.

Eric: Well, what do you guys think? Because on her website when - I'm sorry, Laura. When Micah just asked her to do that little blurb thing and she did about...

[Andrew, Kevin, Laura, and Micah laughs]

Andrew: Well, let's...

Eric: Sorry, that may have been jumping to a few conclusions, [Micah laughs] but I'm sure we've made them already on this show. So, when JKR wrote that thing in her diary about doing the scenes that have been planned for 12 years, do you think that means she's towards the beginning or towards the end of the novel?

Andrew: I think that has got to be towards the end.

Eric: Do you think?

Jamie: Yeah, it must be.

Andrew: Because if you've had this story in the back of your head, this part of the story, for the past 12 years, you're not thinking about...

Kevin: Yeah, absolutely.

Andrew: ...the middle when you're looking for - I mean, I don't want to say fluff, but because...

[Jamie laughs]

Andrew: maybe she has had the final book all mapped out in her head, so I don't know.

Eric: Did she start by writing the in-between places? I mean, what exactly do you guys think is the process? Because we know...

Jamie: Well, she said that...

Eric: She has had the last chapter for a long time.

Jamie: Yeah.

Eric: And she can tweak it, but...

Jamie: She has to make the rest of the book fit in with the final chapter rather than the other way around if you think about it.

Kevin: Well, I think she...

Jamie: Sorry.

Kevin: I think the final chapter is - she knows where she wants to go, you know what I mean? So...

Eric: Well, she's not done.

Jamie: Well, I hope she does by now. After six books.

[Andrew, Eric, Jamie, and Micah laugh]

Kevin: Well, the final chapter, the fact that she has a final chapter says "This is where I want to be at the last chapter of this book."

Eric: Yeah. Kevin; So, mapping the books out based on that...

Andrew: Should be easier.

Kevin: It should be easier, yeah. I mean, in my mind, anyway.

Andrew: Not to say [laughs] her job's easy.

Kevin: Exactly, yeah.

[Eric laughs] Kevin; Not to downplay the fact that it is a monumental task. But still it's - you would think it would be easier knowing where you want to go.

Laura: Even if she has it planned out, that doesn't mean that things haven't changed. You know?

Kevin: That's true, yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, things have got to change.

Laura: I mean, you may have something planned out, but it could be an extremely vigorous 20-page chapter, and that takes time.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: So, I mean, we can't assume that we're going to see a book next year.

Jamie: No.

Laura: But, I think, especially considering that she has released the title, I don't think it's impossible at this point.

Micah: Yeah. I was going to ask, what do you think releasing a title tells us about where she is in writing the book? I mean, is it easier to decide on a title at the end or towards the end as opposed to the beginning?

Andrew: I see it this way. Half-Blood Prince, the title was revealed on June 29, 2004. That is roughly a year and about two weeks prior to the actual release of the book. So, if we were to follow this pattern, which I would think she would be trying to, she would be following the same pattern because, I mean, well, I don't know. [laughs] I have no real explanation.

Eric: So, taking that into account. I wasn't really...

Andrew: Taking that into account you would think the book would be released January, yeah, January 2008.

Eric: They should push that back to June.

Andrew: Yeah. The thing is I... It's not like Jo to write - I don't think she would release a book in January.

Kevin: Well...

Laura: No.

Andrew: For a January release.

Jamie: She wouldn't, would she.

Eric: No, it would probably be a summer release.

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