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MuggleCast 75 Transcript (continued)



Music for the Ball


Andrew: I was saying that the Decade of Enchantment Ball at Prophecy2007.org is going to have...

Laura: Okay, it's going to be a cryfest. [laughs]

Andrew: Well, it's going to have some extra meaning.

Laura: It will.

Andrew: What should the final song be? What's a good goodbye song?

Laura: Please not something from the Goblet of Fire soundtrack.

Andrew: No, no, no.

Laura: [laughs] Anything but that stuff.

[Kevin laughs]

Andrew: No, like - What's one of those really depressing, end of the world...

Eric: That's What Friends are For.

Andrew: How's that go?

Laura: I don't think it should be depressing.

Eric: [sings] That's what friends are for...

Laura: I think it should be like, we went out with a bang.

Eric: [sings] In good times...

Laura: You know, that kind of thing.

Eric: [sings] In bad times, I'll be on your side forevermore.

Andrew: Oh, oh, oh, what about that song that goes... [sings] Oooh... [laughs] I'm totally off key.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Wait. [sings] Oooh... [stops singing] You know the one with a ukulele? [sings] Oooh...

Kevin: [laughs] Okay.

Mikey: You mean, Somewhere Over the Rainbow?

Andrew: Yes, yes, Mikey. Thank you.

Kevin: Oh.

Mikey: I can't pronounce the guy's name. He's awesome, though.

Andrew: Yeah, that's a good song.

Laura: I think Green Day's, Good Riddance / Time of Your Life.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: I think that would be good.

Kevin: Oh geez.

Andrew: [sings in strange voice] Wake me up when July ends.

Eric: Yeah.

Laura: I wasn't talking about that song.

Andrew: I know. That's a good song.

Eric: It's a good song, though.

Laura: He admits it now.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: The final countdown...

Andrew: Oh, by the way...

Eric: ...by Europe...

Andrew: Just real quick, speaking of music, I got a lot of feedback about my little Bye, Bye, Bye remix...

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: ...that I did on the last show.

Eric: Not in July.

Andrew: So much so that I've decided I am going to look into possibly turning it into a Wizard Rock single. I just purchased...

Laura: Oh, geez.

Andrew: ...the karaoke version. So, now I can...

Kevin: Oh, god.

Andrew: ...freely sing without NSYNC getting in my way. So, I'll...

Mikey: Do you need back up?

Andrew: ...be providing updates in that, too.

Mikey: Do you need back up vocals? That's what I'm asking.

Andrew: Well, there are back up vocals already on the karaoke version. So...

Mikey: Oh, okay. Oh, okay.

Andrew: [laughs] ...I don't know.

[Kevin laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, I'll enlist you if I do need any help, though.

Mikey: Okay.



Fan Reaction


Andrew: But anyway, anyone else want to bring anything else up before we get to fan reaction? Which we can talk about.

Laura: No.

Kevin: Can't wait to see a response.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. We got...

Kevin: I want to hear the story personally from her, is what I want to see.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: I want to hear...

Kevin: About the hotel.

Andrew: Yeah, why she decided to go...

Kevin: That's all I want.

Andrew: ...to the hotel.

Mikey: Why she graffitied...

Kevin: It's going to be a great story.

Andrew: If she tells us. [laughs]

Kevin: I can just see a great story coming from it. No, I'm sure she will. I mean, I'm sure she will without a doubt and I'm just looking forward to it.



Listener Rebuttal: Math in the Release Date


Andrew: Yeah. So, we got some feedback from the listeners about their feelings on the release date, and we got some interesting tidbits that some people wanted to point out to us, sent in to mugglecast at staff dot mugglenet dot com. The first one comes from Benjamin, 16, of Buffalo. He writes:

Hey, guys, I love the show, you are all fantastic. One of the best things I've ever listened to. Thank you, Benjamin.

I just wanted to comment on the release date. I know that 7/7/07 would have been an awesome release date but that was crushed by the movie premiere. But I think that 7/21/07 is a good release date. Seven plus seven plus seven equals twenty-one.

Laura: Oh geez.

Andrew:

Just wanted to bring that to your attention.

See, people start looking into that.

Laura: That's not the first time someone's done that.

Micah: Where's K'lyssa?

[Laura and Andrew laugh]

Andrew: Yeah, K'lyssa's that person.

[Laura, Andrew and Kevin laugh]

Andrew: That's clever, though.

Eric: It is clever.

Andrew: It's probably not the reason, but...

Eric: So, it's five sevens?



July 21 is NOT the Summer Solstice


Kevin: Oh, you have to mention the summer solstice.

Andrew: No! Summer solstice - Oh, yeah.

Laura: It's not the summer solstice.

Kevin: No, no, no, that it's not the summer solstice, please.

Andrew: Oh.

Laura: Yeah.

Kevin: Please. I went through like ten e-mails...

Laura: Ten million e-mails, yeah.

Andrew: June 21st...

Eric: June 21st...

Andrew: ...everyone.

Eric: And that was when Book 5...

Laura: When Order of the Phoenix...

Eric: ...was released.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. And that was 2003.



Listener Rebuttal: Release of Title and Release of Book Connection


Micah: The next one comes from Charlotte, 15, of Wisconsin. She says:

Today in history, I was thinking about the Book 7 release date and then I realized that it's on my half birthday, July 21st, of course. That made me realize that it was exactly six months after my actual birthday, December 21st, which was the date we found out the name of Harry Potter 7. I'm sure other people probably realized the connection already, but if not, I'm letting everyone know now.

Andrew: I've just found out from Charlotte. [laughs]

Kevin: Six months...

[Everyone talking at once]

Eric: Exactly six months then? Because we found out...

Mikey: Wow.

Andrew: Right, exactly. You have to wait exactly six months.

Eric: Oh, wow!

Andrew: I think that's kind of cool.



Listener Rebuttal: Release Dates in South Africa


Andrew: Next email, Lindsey, 16, of Capetown, South Africa. She writes:

Hello, MuggleCast, I just...

[coughs] Oh, excuse me, I just choked on nothing.

I just wanted to say that the 21st of July for the 'Deathly Hallows' release is just great. Usually the HP film comes out a week after the U.S. and U.K. release. If this...

In South Africa, she's talking about.

If this pattern continues it means that I can go see the movie on Friday the 20th, read the book on the 21st, and then cry my eyes out on the 22nd...

[Eric laughs]

Laura: Ohhh!

Andrew: ...because there will never be another HP book again.

Eric: Ohhh!

Mikey: But you've still got two more movies.

Andrew: The date won't stop me from seeing the movie at least twice in the cinema and I think most HP fans from South Africa would agree. Thanks for the great show and I hope you don't stop MuggleCast after July.

So, see, it's not - Some people enjoy that sort of thing. You've got the movie and then the book the next day. [laughs]

[Kevin laughs]

Andrew: That's crazy. Or vice versa, whatever she said.



Book Versus Movie


Micah: That was one thing we didn't really talk about, that we mentioned on the last show, was the book versus the movie.

Andrew: Oh yeah, Laura, what do you think about that? I mean, does that play - Is that a big deal to you?

Laura: Ummm...

Andrew: What's...

Laura: It doesn't really bother me...

Andrew: Yeah, someone...

Laura: ...but, I don't know, it does seem kind of weird, I guess, because they're two different stories. I don't really think - I don't think it'll hurt either or, but I think it's not the best marketing I've ever heard of.

Andrew: Who was it that pointed out on the last show - Well, we did talk about marketing and I thought it would be great cross marketing, media-wise with the news outlets.

Eric: Harry Potter month, etc. is what you said.

Andrew: Yeah, what Eric pointed out on the MiniCast was that it's better that the book comes after the movie. Rather than...

Laura: Oh, yeah.

Andrew: ...the movie come after the book.

Laura: It is better.

Kevin: Oh, yeah.

Laura: That would be awful if the book came before the movie.

Andrew: Right. Yeah, so I think I just wanted to get your thoughts on that.

Micah: I think that second weekend, though, is going to suffer in sales because people are going to be completely focused on the book.

Eric: Yeah.

Mikey: Yeah.

Eric: Well, that's what I wrote. I mean, people who wanted to see the movie a second and a third time, unless they do it in the first week they'll have a book to occupy them, obviously so...

Kevin: Yeah, but, honestly, I don't see it suffering that much.

Eric: Well, right.

Kevin: I mean, like I said, quite a few people like to pace themselves with these books, and why not see one of the movies in between? It's - There's no reason not to, you know?



Listener Rebuttal: Marketing Techniques


Andrew: Right. I have another email, Joe, 24 of Tampa, Florida, talks about marketing, sent me an email about the marketing:

There was some disagreement on the MiniCast as to whether releasing 'Deathly Hallows' a week after the release of the Order of the Phoenix movie was A) incredibly smart or B) incredibly stupid. Purely from a marketing stand point this move was genius...

Joe thinks.

As was pointed out on the MiniCast, the potential for cross-marketing is amazing. You could literally have leaflets for the movie placed into each copy of the book during production which would be instant advertising to potentially tens of millions of fans for the cost of basically your average daily newspaper.

Now, before we get to the rest of his email, I don't think they're going to be doing that. [laughs] Throwing a flyer...

Micah: There's no need to do that.

Andrew: ...in the book. Yeah. [continues laughing] Yeah, but he goes on to say:

Despite all the debate it's important not to forget one thing: This is Harry Potter. Scholastic could literally release the book in the dead of winter, only in bookstores above the 40th parallel, in the middle of a driving snow storm, and people would still buy this book. It's the biggest series to come out in at least the last 50 years and this is the last book. No one who bought the last six books are going to pass on this.

Of course, of course. So, I mean...

Laura: Yeah, the thing is, I mean, it's Harry Potter. It's going to sell no matter what you do with it.

Andrew: Right. And it's not so much the selling for us, I don't think. I think it's the hype and the build-up...

Kevin: Yeah.

Andrew: ...that we're all a little disappointed about because the book comes so soon after the movie. And the movie build-up can't compare to the book build up. The book build-up is so much bigger. I mean premiere-wise, the premieres are great, and they're a lot of fun, but there's so much more anticipation for the book, it...

Laura: Well, yeah, I think that's the one thing - I think I was actually talking to you, Micah, about that, was that the second I found out the book was coming out, that became my priority. Like, you know, I'm thinking about - we're going to go to New York for the premiere and stuff, at least that's what I am planning to do.

Andrew: Mhm.

Laura: And I was thinking if I had to cut one trip out of my entire summer, that would be the first thing to go, because I would much rather do a book release than a movie release.

Mikey: Right.

Kevin: Yep, absolutely.

Laura: I think the book definitely trumps it in the aspect.

Andrew: Yeah.



The Spacing Between Book and Movie


Micah: I just think spacing out a little bit could have made a difference for a lot of people if, say, the book came out in the middle of August as opposed to sort of the end of July.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. It could have, but then there just would have been such a long break. I don't - well, I mean, at least for us it would be like, "Okay, movie, let's go back to our homes for two weeks and then fly somewhere else."

Kevin: I think it will work out in the end.

Laura: Well, at least it would give us a break. [laughs]

Andrew: It would give us a...

Kevin: A lot of people...

Andrew: See, but people are saying, "Oh, we need a break." No we don't! It's...

[Everyone laughs]

Kevin: Exactly. That's what I'm saying. I think...

Andrew: Come on! Give me a break.

Mikey: It's going to be an awesome month.

Kevin: Exactly. Yeah.

Mikey: It's going to be back-to-back-to-back-to-back. Everything's going to fall like dominoes. It's going to be the movie, the book, then Prophecy. It's all going to fall together and it's just going to be...

Andrew: Yeah.

Mikey: ...a crazy ride for all of us.



How Will Prophecy Change?


Laura: Yeah, what does everyone - what does everyone think Prophecy is going to be like now, since we will have all read the book by the time we go?

Eric: Well, they...

Andrew: Well, they've got to seriously change - look into their programming...

Laura: [laughs] Change their panels.

Andrew: ...and start some - yeah.

Mikey: "Is Snape good or bad? Well, that we don't know."

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

[Kevin laughs]

Andrew: Well, no offense to the Harry Potter conference in England, but that's over the book release.

[Everyone laughs]

Mikey: Something's happened...book release...

Eric: It's quite a shame to have - yeah, Prophecy was lucky that Jo didn't throw a date right in the middle of their conference because there are these other conferences. Well, what - Enlightening catches the movie, but misses the book? Is that how that works? Or...

Andrew: Basically, yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Andrew: It's right over the movie.

Eric: Catches the movie but misses the book.

Andrew: Which was planned.

Eric: Oh, it was planned? Okay.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: But then, but they missed the book and so - and then the conference...

Andrew: Oh...

Eric: ...in England - what is that Sectus?

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Is right over the book, so...

Andrew: So, I mean, honestly, if you're looking at all three of these conferences, Sectus is going to be interesting because you're going to be right there for the release, but Enlightening there can be, there's much more potential for the Book 7 theory discussion because that's all off in Prophecy now. [laughs]

Laura: Yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: And Sectus is pretty much in... [laughs] What is everyone going to be doing at Sectus when the book comes out? They're going to be reading it. I don't think they're going to be wanting to go to panels. [laughs]

Laura: Panels. [laughs]

Andrew: So...

Laura: Well, it could work out in their favor, though. I mean...

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: MuggleNet had - we had Spellbound in 2005 for Half-Blood Prince.

Andrew: Well, that was planned, that was designed for...

Laura: Yeah, it was, but...

Andrew: It was a one-night thing.

Laura: ...at the same time, I think it goes to show that you can have a large meeting of people and have a book come out.

Andrew: Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Plus, that's in England and we're going to be stealing - well, we want to do a podcast over there. So...

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: Yes!



Listener Rebuttal: Cover Colors


Andrew: Next email, Jessicagoingcrazy, 16, of California. She writes:

First off, I'd like to say that I love you all so much. You make me get a warm, fuzzy feeling inside when I listen to you guys.

Thank you, Jessica.

Laura: Awww.

Andrew: Okay, so the seventh book coming out in July freaks me out. I thought I would be excited, but now that we have a date, I'm scared and upset. Upset because I agree about how close it is to the movie. Scared because I might end up killing myself [laughs] at the end of the book.

Laura: [laughs] Oh my gosh.

Andrew: A note to all of our listeners: She's not serious.

I also don't want to know what happens. I don't want anyone to die. I'm glad that the movie is coming out first, though, but it's just too close to the book. I think the book is more money because it is - it's a bigger book than the sixth. I personally want it to be bigger than the sixth. I will be disappointed if it isn't. I don't think J.K. Rowling is being rushed. For some reason, I feel like she wants to just get it out.

[laughs and clears his throat]

I mean, we got the name of the book and the date on when it comes out. I feel that soon we will know what the cover will look like. You never know.

She wraps up her email by saying:

What do you think the color/colors of the seventh book will be?

Did we talk about this on - when we did favorite book cover?

Micah: No, we actually didn't talk about it.

Laura: No.

Andrew: Oh, okay. What do you guys think? I mean, is there a pattern here? We had - it was sort of green-themed...

Laura: Ummm...

Andrew: Well, it's going to be a solid color, I think. Right?

Laura: Well, I think also, she's talking about when you take the jacket off, you have two colors like...

Andrew: Oh, yeah.

Laura: ...the color on the spine and the - yeah.

Andrew: Well, I think it's going to be black.

Mikey: I agree with that. I think it's going to be black.

Laura: But Goblet of Fire was already black.

Andrew: Nooo.

Laura: Yeah, when you took the jacket - when you took the cover art off Goblet of Fire, it was orange and black.

Andrew: Oh, yeah. No, but I'm talking about the actual - the - where the hard part is.

Laura: Yeah, the actual cover?

Andrew: No, no, no, no. I'm - it was orange and black, but the colors - it'll be black and...

Laura: And something else?

Andrew: ...gray, maybe? Because...

Laura: But wasn't Half-Blood Prince black and purple?

Andrew: It is, but why I'm saying it - it's going to be black, that main part of it is going to be black...

Eric: No, Half-Blood Prince was purple and green, I believe. Half Blood Prince was...

Andrew: No, no, no.

Laura: No, no, no.

Andrew: The...

Laura: The... [laughs]

Andrew: Inside the binding of the book.

Eric: The binding? No, that's what I'm saying. If you take the cover off, it's...

Andrew: It's black. But it's purple. It's black and purple.

Eric: Oh, black and purple?

Andrew: I'm looking at it right now, dude. It's black and purple.

Laura: Yeah, me too. [laughs]

Andrew: [laughs] Ummm, what was I going to say? Yeah, but the - you might remember that the placeholder art for Half-Blood Prince was purple and...

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: ...this one - and for Order of the Phoenix it was blue, I think. Because we were all confident that the theme of the book was going to be purple because Order of the Phoenix matched the color - the color of the placeholder with the color of the actual cover. So, I could be completely off on this, but why would they make the placeholder art black unless the...

Laura: Yeah, it could be.

Mikey: I...

Andrew: It just seems - there just seems to be a pattern here.

Mikey: You know what? It's black because the word "deathly" is in it. It's kind of a dark color...

[Kevin laughs]

Andrew: Do you think that could be true?

Laura: Yeah.

Mikey: It could be that, because it just looks good, also. So...

Andrew: But I mean, black? What does black represent? The end.

Eric: Death?

Andrew: But the end, too, so I think it's...

[Laura laughs]

Eric: Well, the end. Death. Yeah, the end.

Andrew: Yeah. But actually, I mean, completely contradicting myself, I don't think that a black - that the actual cover would be good black. I don't think a Harry Potter cover could be black.

Eric: I don't know.

Micah: Probably be gray.

Mikey: It could be green.

Eric: It could be like a gray-scale type...

Andrew: But that's so blah. It's like, blah. [laughs]

Laura: What if it's like...

Andrew: [laughs] What if it's just solid black?

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Harry Potter... That would be awesome.

Mikey: With a seven on it?

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: The book is so dark that the cover is pure black.

Andrew: It's got a picture of a marble bust on it.

Kevin: Death? Yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: What about red?

Andrew: Maybe that's the key to the book.

Laura: I was thinking red, too.

Kevin: That makes sense.

Andrew: Red? Yeah.

Laura: I think red would be cool.

Mikey: Red and black?

Eric: Red is interesting.

Andrew: Like a Chamber of Secrets red?

Eric: Or red and black.

Mikey: Like a Fawkes red?

Laura: Well, Chamber of Secrets wasn't completely - well, yeah. Fawkes, but - yeah, like that kind of color. Like a blood red.

Mikey: What? Wow.

Andrew: Laura, I don't like blood.

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Well, it's supposed to be a dark book!

Andrew: Yeah.

Micah: Do you think Mary Grandpre...

Mikey: It's going to be blood red and the darkest black they can find. It's going to just be dark and scary.

Andrew: I hope...

Micah: Do you think she gets locked in a room somewhere and for weeks on end and she's not allowed to go anywhere?

Andrew: Well...

Eric: Who?

Micah: Mary Grandpre.

Andrew: Dang. I don't think so, but... [laughs]

[Laura laughs]

Andrew: I hope they - I want a big reveal, like with the Half-Blood Prince cover. They did it on the Today Show. They had a little handkerchief over it and Katie Couric was like - no, it was Arthur Levine, and they pulled it off and there was the cover! We were like, "Wow!" That's the final step. These things come in three steps. You - we get the title, we get the date, and then the cover. And then the...

Eric: Maybe some excerpts.

Andrew: ...countdown's going to be on!



Listener Rebuttal: Movie Release versus Book Release


Andrew: And we have one final email here. Yeah, one final email here from Mary, 31, of Michigan. She writes:

Hey, love the show. Regarding your mini-podcast about the release of Book 7, I think that your conspiracies regarding the timing of Book 7 versus the movie release are a bit too dramatic. I think it's as simple as J.K. Rowling was very close-mouthed about her process of finishing Book 7, and never fully revealed the speed at which she was writing. I think she finally saw the light at the end of the tunnel and did not want to jinx herself. I also think that if she feels the book is ready, it's ready. This is not a woman who can be pushed around by her publishers. She keeps them in the dark just like the rest of the world. Remember also that she willingly sold the movie rights to Warner Brothers and does not have control over when the movie is released. As for taking more time to make Book 7 better, how would we even know if it could have been better unless J.K.R. admits it? She did admit that 'Goblet of Fire' could have been better, but if she'd never told us that, we would not have been - we would not have been the wiser. Who really cares? I think most fans are excited, but also sad the adventure will come to an end. Have a great day.

I wanted to get as many different perspectives from the listeners as possible on this show.

Micah: Well, when she says "bit too dramatic," I think itís really - thatís what we do, though. [laughs] We examine it from every different angle, and we bring up as many different things...

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: ...as possible.

Andrew: We do need to complain, because if we agreed with everything, then [pauses] there would be nothing to talk about.

Micah: Yeah.

[Andrew laughs]

Laura: No show. It would be boring.

Andrew: But with that said, letís reiterate again: we are very excited about this. Itís sort of setting in for me today; itís not fully set in.

Laura: Yeah.

Andrew: The final book is coming out, people. Thereís a 160 plus eight days until the release. So... [laughs]

Laura: There is a certain amount of trepidation involved, too, I think, because part of me is so, so excited that itís coming out, and then again, Iím like, wow, in six months, itís going to be done. And weíre going to know everything. And, you know, weíve been reading these books since - I was 11, so itís been a long time.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Iíve basically grown up with these books.

Andrew: Yeah.

Laura: Itís kind of sad, but exciting, too.



Listener Rebuttal: Horcruxes


Andrew: Okay. Well, I think that wraps up our release date discussion for now. But changing gears here, weíre going to get into some book discussion now. Last week, we asked everyone to send in their ideas on the Horcrux discussion that we had last week, because we were sort of getting all caught up in a tizzy over - we were confusing ourselves, I think. [laughs]

Micah: We got a lot of good response, though.

Andrew: We did, Micah. So, you want to get us through it all?

Micah: Sure.

Andrew: Iím still confused by it all! [laughs]

Micah: [laughs] Well, Sarah, 18, from North Carolina, said that she was re-reading the series and when she was re-reading the beginning of Goblet of Fire, she came across this passage on pg. 10. Wormtail says:

"My lord, I must speak," panic in his voice now.
"All through our journey, I have gone through the plan in my head. My lord, Bertha Jorkinsí disappearance will not go unnoticed for long, and if we proceed, if I murder..."
And then Voldemort says, "'If?' whispered the second voice. 'If?' If you follow the plan, Wormtail, the Ministry need never know that anyone else has died. You will do it quietly and without fuss. I only wish that I could do it myself, but in my present condition... Come, Wormtail. One more death, and our path to Harry Potter is clear. I am not asking you to do it alone. By that time, my faithful servant will have rejoined us."

And she goes on to say that:

Obviously, theyíre talking about making the final Horcrux. I had just noticed that for the first time, and I was just wondering if yíall had noticed it, or if this had been brought up already. If it has, sorry.

Andrew: I understand that theyíre making the final Horcrux, but what does Bertha Jorkins have to do with it?

Eric: Well, no, itís the fact that they said one more murder, and then the path to Harry Potter is clear, but did anybody die in Book 4? I donít think this is talking about the Horcrux at all.

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: I think itís talking about Dumbledore.

Kevin: Well, I donít think itís talking about the Horcrux.

Eric: Yeah.

Kevin: At the very least, I donít think it is.

Laura: No, I really donít think so. I mean, Iím not ruling it out completely, but I always took it to mean that they were trying to go after Dumbledore or somebody who could protect Harry.

Eric: And Voldemort says, "I only wish that I could do it myself." Well, obviously, if heís - he has to do it himself if heís making a Horcrux.

Andrew: So, youíre saying theyíre not talking about killing Bertha Jorkins? Theyíre talking about killing Dumbledore or someone?

Eric: Well, no. Thereís...

Laura: No, no, no, no. Thatís just part of the quote where...

Eric: Yeah. Thatís just part of the quote.

Laura: ... Wormtail is saying that her disappearance is going to...

Eric: Not go unnoticed. And if I murder this other person...

Laura: Kind of make - yeah.

Eric: Right.

Andrew: Thatís what Iím saying.

Eric: And then he says, "If you murder this other person," blah, blah, blah. So, thereís another person, and he says, "Come, Wormtail. One more death, and our path to Harry Potter is clear." So, I wonder - well, Barty Crouch, Sr. died? But who was - who do you think theyíre planning the death of, is what Iím saying? Like, could it be that they were planning Dumbledoreís death in Book 4, or - in this scene, or what?

Laura: Possibly. I mean, who else...

Kevin: Yeah.

Laura: ...does Voldemort really see as the person protecting Harry?

Kevin: Yeah.

Andrew: How would Voldemort expend - expect Wormtail to kill him, though? If Voldemortís feared of him?

Eric: Thatís true, too.

Andrew: Thatís...

Eric: So, it's interesting to see who they killed. Because nobody - who died in Book 4 besides Barty Crouch, Sr.?

Andrew: Well, there was Cedric.

Laura: Yeah, but I donít think they were planning to kill Cedric. [laughs]

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: No. No, no, no.

Laura: Well, thatís kind of interesting, though.

Eric: They were really planning on...

Laura: Because looking at this, apparently there was a murder that was supposed to occur in Book 4, and it didnít happen.

Mikey: [laughs] He was the spare.

Eric: Well, maybe it did. It said, "If you follow the plan, the Ministry never need to know that anyone else has died." So, maybe we donít need to know, either.

Mikey: Well, hold on. Couldnít it be that Barty Crouch, Jr., wasnít with them yet? And the other person that died would be his mother, right? Could they have put Barty Crouch, Sr. under the Imperius Curse to get Barty Crouch, Jr. out? You know what I mean?

Eric: Voldemort says, "By that time, my faithful servant will have rejoined us." So, by his faithful servant, that kind of goes to the graveyard scene, where he is talking about his faithful servant, and is it Snape, or is it Barty Crouch? You know, "By that time, my faithful servant will have rejoined us," you know?

Laura: [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Mikey: I think itís because you donít know. So...

Laura: Interesting.

Andrew: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Micah: Itís just a very weird scene.

Eric: Itís an interesting passage, because it could - it should, actually, matter. Iíd be surprised if it didnít, but it should actually matter. So...

Mikey: Well, couldnít it be - it would matter if they found out that Barty Crouch, Jr. broke out of Azkaban, you know what I mean? So, if they put Senior under - Barty Crouch, Sr. under the Imperius Curse, there is... He did it right this time, and his faithful servant, Barty Crouch, Jr. is going to be able to break out, impersonate Moody...

Eric: Well, no, the...

Mikey: ...and get in.

Eric: ...storyline is coming back to me. What actually happened was Barty Crouch, Sr. took his wife to see their son, swapped bodies with their wife and his son, took his son back home under the Polyjuice Potion as his wife. Dementors didnít notice, but then Bertha Jorkins came by the Crouch household, and kind of got the - got the idea that Barty Crouch, Jr. was kept in the basement, and thatís when Wormtail ran into her, when she went to Albania, and she said, "Yeah, you know, itís kind of weird, but I really think that they are hiding his son down in the basement or something." And that led Voldemort to the Crouches - to Barty Crouch, Jr. Thatís actually what...

Micah: Well, I thought Wormtail killed her because Wormtail is supposed to be dead.

Laura: Yeah, thatís what Voldemort said.

Eric: Well, that, too. But she... But I heard, I thought that Wormtail got the information about Barty Crouch being alive through Bertha Jorkins.

Laura: Yeah. I...

Micah: Thatís possible.

Laura: Yeah.

Mikey: Thatís a possibility. I think I need to re-read the end.

Eric: And I - and by the time all the memory spells are gone, they...

Laura: Thatís right, because they...

Eric: ... her mind...

Laura: Yeah.

Eric: ...would have been a mess, anyway. So, they just killed her. So, but - I donít know. But itís an interesting passage, and Iím glad it was caught, because weíll have to see what it means.

Andrew: Now that weíre discussing...

Eric: Now that Book 7 is coming out.

Andrew: ...it, it doesnít seem like it could mean Horcruxes.

Eric: No.

Laura: No, I donít think so.

Andrew: When I first read that, [laughs] it kind of sounded convincing, but...

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