MuggleCast | The #1 Most-Listened to Harry Potter Podcast

MuggleCast 81 Transcript

Please note: Due to the nature of the show being live, there are some areas that were quite difficult to understand. These areas are marked as "unintelligible." Other than that, enjoy our first live MuggleCast from England!

Show Intro

Andrew: Hey, everyone. This is Toots. And before we go to the live show that Jamie and I recorded on Saturday, March 17th, Saint Patty's Day, I just wanted to point out that we did lose the first twenty to twenty-five minutes of the show. Basically, in the beginning of the show, we had a killer intro, and it killed. Trust me, the audience was on the floor. Just trust me. I know you won't be able to hear it, but trust me. And also we did a Equus review.

The show is going to start off with a theory contest - halfway through a theory contest that we were doing during this live show. Apologies to everybody for the sound quality in some parts. It is a little bad because the audience did not have a microphone. We did really enjoy recording this event, however, and we hope everyone else enjoys it as well. And we'll definitely consider doing more of these live events. MuggleCast-only live shows in the future. So, here it is now. We're going to start it off twenty-five minutes into the show halfway through the theory contest.

And big thanks goes out to everyone who attended that day and Alivan's at Alivan's dot com. They make some great wands and they provided us with some great prizes for the event. So, here's the show now. Enjoy.

Theory Contest

Jamie: Next person? There?

Andrew: Go ahead. This guy right here. Say your name, where you come from. Nice t-shirt, by the way.

Male Audience Member: Oh, thanks.

Jamie: I like it.

[Everyone laughs]

Male Audience Member: I'm [unintelligible], from Canada, originally.

Female Audience Member: Woo-hoo!

Andrew: Alright.

[Everyone laughs]

Theory One: Selfless Act Transfers Soul

Male Audience Member: Okay, anybody who doesn't want Harry to die might not want to listen to my theory.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: That doesn't want Harry to die.

Male Audience Member: Doesn't want Harry to die.

Andrew: Okay.

Jamie: I'm going to go now.

[Everyone laughs]

Male Audience Member: Okay, a little while ago I heard a theory that if you do something so selfless for somebody that - and you end up dying, that perhaps part of your soul can be transferred to them. And theory is this is how Harry got the green eyes, and this is how his love protection works. I was thinking that, perhaps in the seventh book, Harry will end up sacrificing himself for Ginny or Hermione or Ron or somebody in the trio. And his soul with get transferred to Voldemort, and the love in it will destroy him. And that's how love will destroy Voldemort.

Audience Members: Oooh!

[Audience applauds]

Jamie: I couldn't help picturing a - for those of you who have seen The Matrix - I couldn't help picturing Agent Smith flying into Voldemort.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: That would be awesome.

Andrew: Yeah, I remember talking about this on a recent show, too, that ultimately, love is what's going to kill Voldemort; Harry's love, Lily's love.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: And...

Jamie: Could we just have a collective "aww." Audience Members: Aww.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Me and you were sort of debating this on the train yesterday whether or not to discuss whether Harry should live or die. Because we sort of have contrasting opinions.

Jamie: Yeah, we do.

Andrew: I went into a little rant on a recent show, too, just about Harry - And Ben seconded this. I think that Harry has gotten away with - He's won all of his battles, and he keeps just nearly escaping death. And it sounds terrible, but I agree with that kid. It's either going to be love or he's just going to [unintelligible].

Jamie: It's pointless, debating this.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Why?

Jamie: He's just going to live.

Andrew: Tell me why Harry should live, though.

Jamie: Well, no, I shouldn't say that because we have a debate coming up where we're going to have two sides...

Andrew: Oh, oh. I completely forgot about that, actually.

[Audience laughs]

Jamie: Those people with theories want to come down?

Andrew: You and then you? [pointing to kid with Superman shirt] Superman?

[Jamie laughs]

Theory Two: Sirius's Mirror

Female Audience Member: Okay. [unintelligible], and this is kind of a weird theory, but I really want a wand, so.

[Everyone laughs]

Female Audience Member: There's this big thing going on about the mirror that Sirius gave Harry, and - Okay, this is going to sound totally unrelated, but it will mix in the end. When Snape eventually kills Dumbledore in the end of the sixth book, you hear Dumbledore pleading. And a lot of people just read that and think he's begging Severus not to kill him, but really I think it's the opposite; he's asking Severus to kill him because it's [unintelligible] in his death to help Harry. But I was reading up on the next film they're making and from the information there and from the information from J.K. Rowling, it turns out that Dumbledore's brother, Aberforth, is actually the landlord of the Hog's Head. So, and in the sixth book you see Mundungus selling some things that he stole from Grimmauld Place to Aberforth. And I think that, while Sirius wouldn't have the left the mirror hidden somewhere because he needs it to contact Harry, so he would have left it out on display. So I reckon Mundungus has probably stolen that and the sold it to Aberforth. And through Dumbledore - I think he must have realized somehow that, well, he's done his deed. He's killed Grindelwald and done that kind of bit. But he's never really said that much about his brother, apart from he kind of went of his different path and went away. And the name Aberforth does actually mean to just wander off. So, well I reckon he kind of knew that he was trying to make some kind of connection to Harry to his brother via the mirror that Sirius gave him; to kind of help - to get Aberforth to help Harry kill Voldemort. If that made any sense at all.

[Audience laughs]

Andrew: I think so.

[Audience applauds]

Andrew: I just want to say, real quick, about that. Aberforth - I cannot wait to see Aberforth in Book 7 because I really think he's going to give some sort of guidance to Harry, whether it involves just giving him some encouragement, saying, "Dumbledore wants you to do this."

Jamie: Or goats because he's famous...

[Everyone laughs]

Theory Three: The Locket And Grimmauld Place

Male Audience Member: Okay, my name's Michael. I'm from London. I don't know how I'm going to compete with that one. Or that one.

[Everyone laughs]

Male Audience Member: But basically, mine's with the locket horcrux. Basically, it's how it could be possibly linked with Sirius Black's brother, Regulus, maybe taking the locket. And in Book 5 - as we know, J.K. Rowling loves to put little tasters in for us to then reflect back and be like, "How did we not see that?" Well, basically, when they're cleaning out Grimmauld Place in the fifth book, Harry notices this locket that's actually in the cabinet when they're throwing stuff away. And I just think that's something so J.K. Rowling to - suddenly she's going to pull that back out, and that's actually the link with Sirius's brother actually taking the locket, it being in Grimmauld Place, and bringing Grimmauld Place back into the story for the final book, the final chapter.

Andrew: Ooh.

[Audience applauds]

Theory Contest Vote

Jamie: Now we'll have a vote on it. I can't actually what...

[Audience laughs]

Andrew: What? Who did the first one?

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: I think she did the first one.

Female Audience Member: Yeah. Don't vote for me.

Andrew: Don't vote for you?

[Audience laughs]

Andrew: Alright. [laughs]

Jamie: Then...

Andrew: She came second.

Jamie: And then three, four, and five. So should we have a vote for the first theory?

Andrew: It was like...

Female Audience Member: [unintelligible]

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: By the way, only clap for one.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Only your favorite one. So, what was yours, real quick? Summarize.

Female Audience Member: That someone else made a horcrux.

Jamie: Okay.

Andrew: Okay. Applause for that?

Jamie: Applause for that one?

[Moment of silence]

[Everyone laughs]

[Little applause]

Andrew: Everyone who did a theory gets a shirt, anyway. So...

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: I liked it. I liked it. [laughs] Yeah. This guy with the Harry...

Jamie: Do you want to summarize it quickly?

Male Audience Member: Yeah. Harry will sacrifice himself and his soul will get transferred to Voldemort and the love will kill Voldemort.

Jamie: Oh, the Agent Smith theory.

Andrew: Yeah.

[Audience loudly applauds]

Andrew: And then...

Jamie: [Matrix impersonation] Mr. Anderson.

Andrew: Then who else...

[Audience laughs]

Andrew: Sorry, who's next?

Female Audience Member: That was the theory of Dumbledore, like, wanting to kill himself and then the mirror that Sirius gave Harry leading Harry to Aberforth, help him kill Voldemort.

Jamie: Applause for that?

[Audience applauds]

Jamie: [laughs] And, finally...

Male Audience Member: The locket being a marvelous J.K. Rowling conversion into the fifth book which will arise in the last book.

Jamie: That was beautiful.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: I think that's clever.

Jamie: Applause for that one?

[Audience applauds]

Jamie: Bring the overwhelming winner over.

Andrew: Yeah. [laughs]

Jamie: Come up and get your wand.

[Audience applauds]

Andrew: Everyone else, you guys can come up and get your t-shirts.

Andrew: By the way, it's a trick. There's nothing in the box.

[Audience laughs]

Jamie: Oh, it's just a box. We've taken the wand out.

Andrew: We should plug Alivan's.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: I mean, they are a good wand company, and...

Female Audience Member: Tell us the properties of the wand.

Jamie: Sorry?

Andrew: Oh, it's - there's a different wand for each. That's, that's probably - yeah.

[Loud crash]

Andrew: Oops.

[Audience laughs]

Andrew: We didn't see that in there.

Female Audience Member: Wow.

Andrew: You can just look down. What kind of wand is it? Right at the top.

Male Audience Member: Holly and ebony, twelve and a half inches.

Andrew: There you go.

Female Audience Member: Nice.

[Audience applauds]

Andrew: There's - they're all different, so every time someone wins one, we'll open it up. It's a surprise.

[Audience laughs]

Male Audience Member: Ooh.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: What's coming next?

Andrew: Alright, so - oh, yeah, and by the way, everyone else who gave a theory, you can come up and pick a shirt.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: We've got tons of shirts. Actually, these are all leftover because WB won't let us sell them anymore, so...

[Audience laughs]

Andrew: I had four boxes of t-shirts mailed to me. [laughs] I - this isn't even all of them.

Jamie: Yeah, it's like a tenth of them.

Andrew: Yeah, and I could honestly open up a store in my house with the amount of MuggleCast t-shirts [laughs], so - by the way, a lot of fun carrying that on the Underground.

[Audience laughs]

Andrew: But anyway...

Jamie: It was - ugh, don't even want to think about it.

Andrew and Jamie's Trip To EA

Andrew: So yesterday, Jamie and I went to Electronic Arts here in the UK to check out the Harry Potter video game. We had an awesome time. We spent a few hours there yesterday. They have a brand new facility. Where is it, Guildford?

Jamie: Guildford in Surrey.

Andrew: Guildford, yeah.

Jamie: And it's amazing. A sort of glass, you know, building with almost glass floors and...

[Andrew laughs]

Jamie: ...elevators. They're very, very cool.

Andrew: Brand new, very high-tech. When you go into the lobby there's video games there. We were playing the Goblet of Fire while we were there. [laughs]

Jamie: There was a Wii, a PS3, and there were all these games on it.

Andrew: So then, the representative who works with the media, like the fan sites and EA, she came and picked us up at the lobby, took us upstairs, and she said, "Wait until the doors open up." The whole floor...

Jamie: Is...

Andrew: ...Harry Potter.

Jamie: ...Harry Potter-based. It's like they have a floor for each game.

Andrew: Mhm.

Jamie: So you'll have like, I mean, I can't name any of the games, but...

Andrew: I was...

Jamie: Yeah, that was like a floor and then we get up, and you go out, and there's a huge gold-plated Harry Potter sign there, and it's like a Diagon Alley thing...

Andrew: With a Sirius - there's a Sirius "Wanted" poster as a hologram. So like, you would look at it, you would see Sirius and then move a little to the left, and...

Jamie: Very cool.

Andrew: But, it's amazing because there's 120 people all on this one floor, working on the Harry Potter video game, so it's an amazing team of people who are dedicated.

Jamie: And they really are. They're fans, as well. You know, they aren't just programmers who work on the game. They're fans as well. And, I mean, we can't say that much, they told us all this - they told all the work that's going into it. The game looks absolutely unbelievable.

Andrew: Amazing.

Jamie: It really does. I mean, I haven't played a game before, I don't know if anyone else has...

Andrew: Who has played the Harry Potter video games? And are a fan of them? They're good, right? You guys like them?

Jamie: But this just blows everything else away. It's absolutely - it's just like a world, this thing. It's amazing, absolutely amazing.

Andrew: It - yeah, even if you're not a video game fan, I honestly think that anyone's going to like this video game.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Because you can go through all of Hogwarts, everywhere, and in the beginning, I think it is, they have a big pan-through to show all the grounds and everything. It's amazing.

Jamie: It's very, very cool.

Andrew: The PS3 version, I mean, you know, that's a very powerful game system. The graphics are unbelievable.

Jamie: It's very gorgeous. You have a question?

Male Audience Member: Yeah, can you tell us anything about the Wii version?

Jamie: We - yeah, it's unbelievable.

Andrew: The Wii version...

Jamie: Or it's going to be. It really is.

Andrew: We haven't actually played it, but they're very excited for it. I mean, the Wii, for everyone who doesn't know, it's...

Jamie: Everyone knows what a Wii is.

Andrew: Does everyone know? Audience Members: Yeah. [laughs]

Andrew: Alright, well, sorry. [laughs]

Jamie: He thinks we British people are so far behind on that.

[Audience laughs]

Andrew: Sorry. By the way, is there any Americans here to support me in this little world? [laughs] Okay.

Female Audience Member: I lived there for four years.

Jamie: Oh, really?

Andrew: Oh, yeah? Cool. So, yeah, the Wii version, they're very excited about, because you have the remote control, and you're going to be doing spells with them, so, you know Wingardium Leviosa and stuff like that, I think there's going to be like, twelve. When we had them on MuggleCast for an interview about two or three months ago, and we talked with the two guys who we met yesterday. They were very excited about it, and one guy, Matt, is a huge Harry Potter fan, so you know that the game is going to be...

Jamie: It really is.

Andrew: There's so many insights. The game is - It's actually unbelievable how good this game is going to be. It's just great, it - really.

Jamie: Should we go onto our debate now?

Andrew: Yeah.

Debate: Should Harry Die?

Jamie: Okay, we're going to have a "Should Harry Die" - not could - "Should Harry in the Final Book?" What we're going to do is, we're going to pick three people, one for the "for Harry should die," one for the "against Harry should die," and the winning team gets a wand each.

Andrew: Okay.

Jamie: So, who wants to argue for...?

Andrew: There's three wands.

Jamie: Hm?

Andrew: Oh, oh! I get it now. Okay.

[Audience laughs]

Andrew: Sorry.

Jamie: He's had a long trip.

[Audience laughs]

Andrew: [laughs] Yes.

Jamie: So who wants to argue for "should Harry die?" Yeah?

Andrew: Of course, you've got...

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Alright, do we have three right there? Alright, so you guys have all seen how the debate segment works on MuggleCast, and it's usually Ben's thing, but we didn't tell him, so...

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: Usually he'll run into all the technical terms. So yeah, you guys can come up and - how are we going to do this?

Jamie: Three on this side, three on that side, and you get three minutes each, a minute each to represent your case. A minute each to represent your case, and then we'll have an audience clapping session again.

Andrew: [laughs] Yeah.

Jamie: We like those now.

Andrew: Yeah, they're fun.

Jamie: And so, yes, so who's on for "should Harry die?" Or rather, "Harry should die." Okay, you ready to come up? You?

Andrew: Okay.

Jamie: You, but if you win, you're getting a scarf or something.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Yeah, you don't get another wand.

Male Audience Member: I'll fight for "shouldn't."

Andrew: "Shouldn't?" Okay.

Jamie: Oh, you're "shouldn't." Okay, yeah. Come up for "shouldn't."

Female Audience Member: "Shouldn't."

Andrew: We'll get everyone. Everyone's going to have a chance to participate.

Jamie: Yeah, we're going to open it, open it up to the audience afterwards. Okay, so, do you want - do you want a couple of minutes to think about it?

Female Audience Member: Yeah, we need to, we need to huddle up right now.

Andrew: Okay.

Jamie: Group hugging.

Andrew: Group hug.

[Each team begins discussing amongst themselves]

Andrew: So, basically, we'll just go over the rules, while we’re...

Jamie: Okay, yeah. Basically, each team gets three minutes to report their case. Then, we leave it up to the audience. You can then grill them and ask as many questions as you want, so yeah.

Andrew: On the show, usually Ben goes into all the technical terms.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: I don't understand that nonsense.

Jamie: He thinks that because he does the debate thing that he's amazing.

Andrew: Yeah. How much time are we giving this?

Jamie: Another minute or something?

Where Is Everyone From?

Andrew: So, who here is from - how many people actually live here in England?

[Majority of audience raises hands]

Andrew: Oh, wow. What's your weirdest locations, or furthest?

Audience Member: [unintelligible]

Jamie: I don't even know where that is, and I live here.

[Audience laughs]

Andrew: No, name your country.

Female Audience Member: Canada!

Andrew: We’ve got Canada. We’ve got some people here from Canada. Visiting for Equus?

Andrew: [Continuing conversation with unheard audience member] What did you come for? Don't say us. Oh, okay. Cool.

Jamie: Awesome. Okay, should we...

Debate Team #1: Harry Should Die

Andrew: Yeah. Alright, are you guys ready to start?

Female Debate Participant #1: Yeah, sure. I'm not doubting myself at all.

Andrew: Alright, so...

Jamie: Want to give them the mic?

Andrew: Yeah. Okay, so what you're going to do - you're going to have two minutes?

Jamie: Three.

Andrew: Three minutes to prove your case. So come over here to the side.

Female Debate Participant #1: Three minutes?

Andrew: Three minutes max. So, whenever you're ready.

Jamie: One, two, three, and go.

Male Debate Participant #1: Okay, Harry has to die.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Good argument.

Female Debate Participant #1: Because we have the theory.

Male Debate Participant #1: Yeah, my theory. Harry has to die.

[Audience laughs]

Female Debate Participant #1: Oh man. [turns to other team member] What was your theory?

Female Debate Participant #2: Okay. From just a standpoint of people copying J.K. Rowling’s books and stuff, Harry has to die because then there would be sequels and those wouldn't be as good as the original, and we just need - and what bigger way can the series end than Harry killing Voldemort? I mean, he won't have a life after that. What is he going to do, something boring?

[Everyone laughs]

Female Debate Participant #2: It's all exciting because he's always trying to kill Voldemort, but once Voldemort's dead...

Male Debate Participant #1: What can he do?

Female Debate Participant #2: Exactly.

Female Debate Participant #1: He can go to Career Finder...

[Everyone laughs]

Female Debate Participant #1: No, I just think that, obviously, one can't live while the other survives, and it just seems, probability-wise, as far as - even wands and trying to killing each other, there's going to be some sort of tussle in the mud...

[Everyone laughs]

Female Debate Participant #1: ...and there is going to be an awkward slamming-faces-at-same-time - death. Or - it's just too sad to think, really, that Harry is going to stay alive and we’re not going to be able to see him living.

[Everyone laughs]

Female Debate Participant #1: I'd rather he just went and we could go, "Okay, it's fine."

Jamie: And cry for a week.

[Everyone laughs]

Female Debate Participant #1: Yeah.

Jamie: And a half. Years.

[Everyone laughs]

Female Debate Participant #1: And the rest of our lives.

Male Debate Participant #1: Oh, everybody...

Jamie: Oh, I've got - Sorry. Carry on.

Male Debate Participant #1: Are we over?

Andrew: Yeah, you’re probably over.

Jamie: You’ve probably got about twenty seconds. Twenty seconds.

[Team looks to Female Debate Participant #1]

Female Debate Participant #1: Oh, thanks. Everyone points to me.

[Everyone laughs]

Female Debate Participant #1: I just - he has to fulfill the prophecy, obviously. I just think he should die, if only for everyone’s sanity, and so nobody pesters Jo to write any more books.

Jamie: Okay, thank you very much.

[Audience applauds]

Debate Team #2: Harry Shouldn't Die

Jamie: Now, for Harry not dying. Three minutes and go.

Male Debate Participant #2: Okay, I'm going to go on with the idea of moral ethics, and the idea that in every good story, good triumphs over evil, so I'm just going to stick to those guidelines. Secondly, my idea for the name, Deathly Hallows is that it's going to be fought on All Hallows Eve, or Halloween night, because that's the day Voldemort tried to kill Harry in the first place, so I can see it being a repeat of destiny. So, Harry will win again, I think. And, as Andrew said, anyone who looks that good naked should deserve to live.

[Everyone laughs]

Male Debate Participant #2: That's my idea.

Female Debate Participant #3: Basically, if Harry dies before he actually gets a chance to defeat Voldemort, then I think the wizarding world is going to die.

[Audience members laugh]

Female Debate Participant #3: Because he'd be the only person to be able to kill him, and if he doesn't, then it's just going to end up in ruins. Yeah, there would be nobody left to kill Voldemort, and if he defeats Voldemort, then he gets what he's always wanted; to lead a normal life. And I think it's better if Harry's happy rather than all the ex-Death Eater people.

Jamie: One minute.

Female Debate Participant #4: Okay, I think that Harry shouldn't die because the whole thing with J.K. Rowling is that she's trying to say that death isn't everything, like with Dumbledore saying there were things more evil than death or whatever, and so I don't think he will die, but I think he will go into Azkaban and have his soul sucked out or something, but he won't die.

[Everyone laughs]

Female Debate Participant #4: He will live. Yeah.

Jamie: Okay, we've got twenty seconds.

Female Audience Member #4: He should live.

[Everyone laughs]

Female Audience Member #3: If Harry dies, I will cry for years to come.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Okay, it's about done.

Andrew: Would everyone cry if Harry did die?

[Mixed 'yes' and 'no' replies from audience]

Andrew: I think it would depend on how it was presented.

Jamie: If it just ends the book, and then it says, "Oh, yeah, and he dies at the end." I wouldn’t cry.

Questions For Debate Teams

Andrew: What, you have some feedback? Alright.

Jamie: Okay, we have questions to that "Harry should die."

Andrew: Grill them. Feel free to grill them.

Male Debate Participant #1: Yeah, grill us.

Female Debate Participant #1: Yeah, kill them now.

Jamie: Over there? Are you scratching your hair, or are you...

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: Okay, sorry.

Female Audience Member: If Harry dies, then Voldemort will still live, and then people will still try to make sequels about Voldemort trying to kill people and them fighting back.

Female Debate Participant #1: Oh, I'm not trying to say that if Harry dies, then that means Voldemort lives. I'm just saying that Harry might, because J.K says there is nothing worse than whatever, but death isn't the final thing. I think Harry can then go do something that Voldemort will never expect, which is kill himself to kill Voldemort. So Voldemort will die, but Harry will have to die to kill him.

Male Debate Participant #1: Like sacrificing.

Female Audience Member #2: Exactly.

Male Debate Participant #1: Just because Harry dies doesn't mean Voldemort doesn't also die.

Female Debate Participant #1: Exactly. I do think Voldemort will definitely die, but Harry will also.

Jamie: Okay, thank you. Question over there?

Female Audience Member: Well, it’s like - People were talking about similarities between Agatha Christie's Poirot, and Harry - She killed off Poirot so she wouldn't actually have to write any more books about him, and so she wouldn’t have to or be able to because he was dead. But then you think about Sherlock Holmes, and he killed off Sherlock Holmes so that he wouldn't be able to come back. In the ultimate showdown between good and evil, Sherlock Holmes kills Moriarity, but then he brought back Sherlock Holmes, so I just don't think it's going to work. That’s all I have to say.

Female Debate Participant #1: That’s excellent.

Andrew: Okay, so one more question over here.

Female Audience Member: Because J.K. Rowling is writing a children’s book, generally in a children’s book, the main hero doesn’t die.

Male Debate Participant #1: She never said that it’s a children’s book.

Female Debate Participant #1: And there’s definitely been death.

Male Debate Participant #1: She never said she was writing it for children or for adults; she just said she was writing it, so good can win as easily as evil.

Jamie: Any other questions?

Female Audience Member: Can I just say that I think everybody is too caught up on what they think J.K. Rowling [unintelligible] and I just think, we’re Harry Potter fans; this is the Harry Potter world, okay? Think of it as if it’s real. Why won’t he live and why will he live? It’s got to do with the book, not with what J.K. Rowling says or whatever. She said about the forgotten prophecy, she said she worded that prophecy very well and there was a time, I don’t know, maybe it’s old enough, but she said that no one had actually picked up on exactly what Fawkes meant.

Jamie: Yeah.

Female Audience Member: I still think that no one has completely gotten it. How do we know that’s exactly what Fawkes’ singing means? It seems too straight forward for me, and I just think everybody keeps talking about yeah, "he’s not going to die because this is JK Rowling, because how can she kill off a main character?" But I mean, you can’t think that like the essence of the book and the theme of the book and what’s happening in the book and in the wizarding world.

Female Debate Participant #1: There’s only four options, isn’t there? It’s like they both live, they both die, one dies, and the other dies. Male Debate Participant #1: The other dies.

Female Debate Participant #1: There’s only four options so everyone’s set.

Jamie: Or they all live happily every after.

Andrew: Yeah. [Laughs]

[Everyone laughs]

Female Debate Participant #1: Or we have that Voldemort suddenly gets like a little...

Jamie: Yeah.

Female Debate Participant #1: He turns a new leaf.

Jamie: An epiphany. “I’ve been really mean, actually.”

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: Let’s start - I’m starting, we’re on this side now.

Jamie: Any questions from the "Harry should not die?"

Male Audience Member: I have a couple.

Jamie: Okay, here.

Male Audience Member: Well, I’m not going - Well I’m probably going to get booed for this but, along the lines that Harry’s a Horcrux theory, Harry says to Dumbledore in the office, “So he put a bit of himself into me?” and Dumbledore says, “Yes, he did.” And that, in a way, implies that he could be. I’m not saying it is, but it’s a theory that could be true, and if that was true, Harry would have to die. But also, he had Priori Incantatem in Book 4, and there’s nothing to say that it couldn’t be something like that. Not necessarily Priori Incantatem but something similar to it that we don’t know about yet that happened between the two, which could result in both of them dying.

Jamie: On that thing, I’ve always wondered this, if they can’t fight with their wands because, as you say, Priori Incantatem happens, what is going to happen? It has to come down to love, you know, that she says Harry’s going to kill him with love, but...

Male Audience Member: A mortal death would be the ultimate insult to Voldemort.

Jamie: Yeah.

Male Audience Member: Not to be killed with a wand, be killed in a mortal way.

Jamie: Through something else.

Male Audience Member: Because he hates being part Muggle.

Female Audience Member: I think Harry’s not going to be able to kill off the horcruxes, like to destroy them. And what’s something would be quite ironic is if Voldemort were killed by Muggles because I believe that Muggles...

[Audience laughs]

Female Debate Participant #1: Drunk driving.

Jamie: Yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Female Audience Member: … so if Muggles got pitchforks or something and started...

[Audience laughs]

Female Audience Member: ...chasing after Voldemort, it would be quite ironic.

Jamie: With burning torches and stuff.

[Audience laughs]

Jamie: Anyone else? There?

Female Audience Member: You said that it was like all good stories have an ending where good triumphs over evil. Won’t that be a bit typical, that the best story every ends like every single other fairy tale? In real life, it’s not like some little person who doesn’t have any powers, so he beats the super powerful person, so it would be a bit unrealistic.

Male Audience Member: I think it would be quite ironic. Because here we all are thinking, "No, she’s not going to do that. She’ll do something completely off the record, something really new." I think it would be just something like her to do something that we’re not expecting, so do the conventional rather than something out of the ordinary.

Jamie: And in the back row.

Female Audience Member: And all the way through the books it says that death isn’t the final thing. I think Harry’s earned the right to be happy and peaceful at the end of the books with his parents that he’s always wanted to meet in the books. So if Harry dies he’ll have that final reunion.

Male Audience Member: So long story short, dying’s a good thing then.

[Everyone laughs]

Andrew: That's true. I like that point. I like that.

Jamie: Yeah.

Andrew: And plus, whoever else dies in the final book, I don’t know if you said that, but I mean, they’ll be with Harry too.

Jamie: Yeah.

Audience Members: Awww.

[Everyone laughs]

Male Audience Member: They’re all going to die.

Andrew: This girl right here?

Female Audience Member: What’s he going to do if he lives? He’s going to be – go away from Hogwarts? Is he just going to, like, go around with Ron and Hermione and just...?

Female Audience Member: Quidditch.

Male Audience Member: I think a good reply for that would be, what would Voldemort do if Harry dies? What would he do?

Female Audience Member: He’ll kill more people.

Male Audience Member: I know, but no one wants to see that.

Female Audience Member: No, but their point is...

Male Audience Member: Harry is a tragic hero character. I think the sort of life he’d live after beating Voldemort is just the sort of life you would live. It’s like he’s never had a really good life, when you think about it, so it would suit it to carry on being a normal life, I think.

Jamie: Right at the back.

Female Audience Member: I think that one of the trio has to die, so wouldn’t it be better for Harry to die? Because Ron and Hermione are so sweet together.

[Everyone laughs]

Female Audience Member: Harry has had such a hard life. I just want him to die, really.

[Everyone laughs]

Jamie: This is depressing.

Male Audience Member: Yeah, I’m not really sure what to say to that except that he’s had a hard life, so therefore he deserves to die.

[Everyone laughs]

Male Audience Member: I’m sure there are a lot of people who wouldn’t agree with that. I think he deserves to be happy, but you know.

Female Debate Participant #1: He just needs a bit of a lie down.

Andrew: Just take a break for a while.

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