Delta Phi

Ben: So, yeah that is true. I don't know. But Rob "Cheeseman", he knows something. He writes - he is 23 and he is from Liverpool, England - and he writes:

Is it me, or does Ron have Godric Gryffindor's sword in his hand? More importantly: Why? Regarding the Delta image, Delta in mathematics is used to denote "difference between" or "change in" things. If the other symbol is indeed Phi, then perhaps the image is being used to denote a change in wisdom? As for Phi, the number to which you refer in the "Golden Ratio," which is intimately related to nature and aesthetically pleasing things, including Da Vinci's "Vitruvian Man." Incidentally, the great pyramid at Giza is proposed to be closely related to the golden ratio. More evidence for an Egyptian adventure? It was also described by Johannes Kepler as "a precious jewel." Significant? Not entirely sure of the significance of all of this, but I'm sure it'll make for good discussion.

Eric: More Egypt.

Mikey: Before we go into Delta Phi, I was actually reading - we have another one, actually the next message - the next caller talks about Delta Phi specifically. So...

Ben: So...

Mikey: ...why don't we hold off that one.

Ben: ...we will go ahead and read that one.

Mikey: Oh, you want to read that one now.

Ben: We will go ahead and read that. Robin, 45 from Santa Rosa, California writes specifically about Delta Phi. She...

I had an idea about what the symbol on the spine of the U.K. children's edition 'Deathly Hallows' cover might be. I was thinking that in Greek, maybe the letters "Delta" and "Phi" might be the abbreviation of "Order of the Phoenix." I went to BabelFish and did an English to Greek translation of "Order," and the word that came up did begin with a Delta. Then I put in "Phoenix," and the word that came up did begin with a Phi. Pretty neat, huh? What do you think? Hmmm. So...

Kevin: That would be pretty interesting.

Ben: That's crazy.

Kevin: Yeah.

Ben: That seems almost like too much of a coincidence for me.

Mikey: Yeah, and you know what the symbols for Delta and Phi are, right?

Kevin: Of course, yeah.

Mikey: Delta is a triangle and Phi is a circle with a line through it. So, kind of the symbol here? I don't know...

Kevin: Phi is typically caps, though, like an "I."

Mikey: Yeah, it is more like an "I" instead of a line.

Kevin: Capital "I."

Mikey: I don't know if I - that's a cool coincidence. I don't know if that is actually what the symbol means. I don't know.

Micah: Well, Mikey, though, you were talking before, though, that this symbol was very similar to sort of the white marble on Dumbledore's tomb. Isn't that what you were going for before?

Mikey: Yeah, well it seems like...

Micah: So...

Mikey: ...well, it is on white so it would make sense, I don't know.

Micah: It would make sense then if it is the symbol for the Order of the Phoenix.

Ben: Right, if it is Dumbledore's tomb, but why would it be significant if it was on Dumbledore's tomb? That's the thing.

Mikey: Well...

Ben: Well, I guess that Dumbledore - I don't know.

Mikey: The Order of the Phoenix, it has to be significant.

Ben: It's so hard to tell.

Mikey: This book is going to be the death of me! I'll never know.

[Everyone laughs]

Mikey: Honestly, like, my brain right now hurts because I'm trying to answer these questions logically...

Ben: Yeah.

Mikey: ...but there's so much like, I don't know. Like, what could it mean?

Dumbledore's Tomb

Ben: Before we get ahead of ourselves here, Daniel, 19, from Armagh - someone's going to get mad and correct me - Ireland. [pronounces several different ways] Armagh? Armagh? E-mail me and tell me...

Eric: Ask Ciaran.

Ben: ...how it's pronounced - has a little bit of information about - has a question and a little information about Dumbledore's tomb:

Hi all you MuggleCasters, I love the show and can't get enough of your cover coverage. Let's get to it. In one of the previous episodes, 80 something, I can't remember which one exactly, you talk about the odd symbol on the top of the spine on the U.K. children's cover. And I noticed that when you look closer at the background for the symbol it appears to be marbled. Now, when I realized this I tried to remember any time that marble is mentioned and I came up with Gringotts, which we can eliminate, I think, because it is described in the book as being snowy white not really marble, and Dumbledore's tomb. So, I think the symbol on the spine can be some sort of symbol on Dumbledore's tomb that might be recognized and translated by, say, someone who has been studying Ancient Runes for the past three years. No idea formulated about what it could mean yet, but just an interesting point. Hmmm, who's been studying Ancient Runes?

[Kevin laughs]

Micah: Uh, Hermione? [laughs]

Eric: Hermione.

Ben: Yeah. So, yeah, mark my words. That's probably going to play a role. Hermione's knowledge in ancient runes.

Eric: Oh wow!

Mikey: Really?

Eric: I just realized. I was looking up - I'm on Wikipedia and I searched for marble, and there's a term called [mispronounces] faux-marbling or [mispronounces again] faux-marbling.

Kevin: [correct pronunciation] Faux. Yeah

Eric: Or whatever. And it's a wall painting technique. Faux, yeah, that's what it is, but I saw [pronounces like "Fawkes"] faux and I was like, "Holy crap!" But no. Nevermind.

Mikey: How were you like? What were you doing?

Eric: I'm looking up marble - I'm looking up marble and...

Micah: Are you redecorating?

Eric: ...trying to see, it just says [laughs]: "Marble is a metamorphic rock." No, I was just on Wikipedia. "Marble is a metamorphic rock, resulting from regional or early-contact metamorphism of sedimentary carbonate rock, either limestone of Dulles stone. The metamorphic processes causes a complete..." This is why I'm not taking Geography or Geology. Yeah. Geology. This is why I'm not a geologist. Nevermind.

[Kevin and Mikey laugh]

Eric: I thought I'd found something.

Ben: [laughs] Yeah.

Eric: But Jo, Jo, Jo - but speaking about marble, though, Jo did talk about Alchemy in the first book, you know? The Philosopher's Stone? And Dumbledore did some work on Alchemy with Nicholas Flamel. I'm wondering if Alchemy itself will come into play in the future books.

[Kevin laughs]

Ben: Future book, you mean. There's only one left.

Eric: Oh, right! Yeah, crap.

[Ben laughs]

Eric: Future book. Future 700, or 800-some pages. Yeah.

Ben: I don't know, but this symbol is what's important right now and I don't think...

Micah: I think these are a lot of good ideas, and I think they raise just a whole lot more questions.

Kevin: Yeah, it's true. And like I said before, we have no basis for what...

Micah: Right.

Kevin: ...it's linked to, so it could be linked to anything in history. Or it could be - like, I saw an e-mail recently...

Ben: Right.

Kevin: ...that said it's a triangle, which represents the trio, and a circle, which represents unity, and a line down the middle, which represents a breaking of this unity.

Ben: Right, and...

Kevin: That was a completely interpreted response to the symbol that could be absolutely correct.

More Symbol Analysis

Ben: Yeah, and we have an e-mail about that from Jared Pratt, 20, from Canandaigua, New York, correct me on that, too. He says:

Micah: No, you got it right.

Ben: Hey, MuggleCasters... - Is that right?

Micah: Yeah, Canandaigua...

Ben: Canandaigua.

Micah: Upstate New York. Yeah.

Eric: Winnibega.

Micah: Indian territory. Native American, sorry. Native American territory.

Ben: Okay.

Hey, MuggleCasters, I heard about the symbol in Episode 85 and promptly turned to my copy of 'The Book of Signs' by Rudolph Coke. After examining the picture of the U.K. cover and analyzing the symbol through the compendium...

Is that right?

...of symbols, I have come to this conclusion. It's the compound signet comprised of two elemental symbols. The vertical split circle, which stands for God's vision of light from darkness and/or time, and the vertically split equilateral triangle means a broken trinity or loss of faith. This is purely an academic view as my amateur analysis can reveal. I'd love to hear what you guys have to say on this.

[Mikey sighs]

Ben: End quote. Thanks for that...

Kevin: See, and like I said before, where, I mean, it sounds...

Mikey: So many questions.

Kevin: It's completely plausible. You know, there's - it's absolutely plausible that's what it's going to be, but...

Eric: Yeah.

Kevin: ...until we get at least some bit of information as to where it links, whether it be Greek or, you know, this book of signs, we won't have any idea exactly what it is. I think it could absolutely be correct. Yeah.

Ben: But his interpretation, Jared's interpretation here about it - well, yeah, I think even if this is not specifically what the symbol was referencing in Half-Blood Prince, I think that his interpretation could mean - the symbol could have more than one meaning, because, you know, he talks about an equilateral triangle - a split equilateral triangle meaning a broken trinity or loss of faith. Well, that would make sense because, as they have this time of war going on and stuff, a lot of people may start to lose faith in the cause on both sides. You know? They may lose faith in the fact of thinking that things are going to work themselves out. So, when there's despair going on, when there's war going on, it does make sense for there to be a loss in faith...

Eric: Yeah.

Ben: ...even in that symbol isn't referring to that...

Eric: Yeah. Well, I mean...

Ben: ...specifically.

Eric: We learned about - I mean, Half-Blood Prince is the name Snape called himself. Maybe Draco goes around calling himself this.

[Kevin laughs]

Eric: Like maybe he took a leaf out of Prince's book, you know? Just...

Mikey: [laughs] The wizard formerly known as Draco Malfoy?

Eric: Yeah. So now he's Phi Delta, or something. I don't know.

Ben: Yeah.

Mikey: Delta Phi.

Eric: Delta Phi.

Ben: That'd be funny. Well...

Mikey: Well, what do you guys think?

Ben: Well, that wraps up this week's main discussion.

Eric: Yep.

Ben: We're sorry we can't offer anything that isn't really anything more than conjecture, but we haven't read the book yet, so we don't know what's going on, but...

Mikey: Well, I have, but...

Ben: Oh, right, Mikey. [laughs] Well, hopefully this gives you guys - gives each of you a few ideas as to what to expect or what it could possibly be and that's the best we could do. If you have any rebuttals of this or any e-mails or any thoughts that we have missed in the show, please e-mail us at mugglecast at staff dot mugglenet dot com.

Voicemail: Harry Killing Voldemort

Ben: Now, we have a few voicemails this week about stuff other than analyzing the cover - well, overanalyzing the cover like we love to do. So, we have a few voicemails for you here this week, and let's roll the first one.

[Audio]: Hey, MuggleCasters. This is Wesley from California. Your show is fantastic. I just started listening to it about a week ago and now you guys have me completely addicted. Anyways, my question is this: From what I can tell, you guys seem to have concluded that Harry will not be able to kill Voldemort as long as Voldemort still has a wand with the same phoenix feather as Harry's, because if Harry tries to do the Avada Kedavra on Voldemort, Priori Incantantem will just keep blocking it. Although this is logical, in The Goblet of Fire, Voldemort still performs a Cruciatus curse on Harry even while Harry has his wand drawn. I think this was because Harry wasn't performing a spell at that exact same time, so Priori Incantantem didn't block it. Doesn't this mean that Harry could actually kill Voldemort as long as Voldemort wasn't doing a spell at the exact same time? What do you guys think? Thanks, bye.

Ben: This person makes a very interesting point, and I think Harry can kill Voldemort as long as Voldemort doesn't shoot up any type of curse so - to create the Priori Incantantem. So, they can't duel and can't shoot spells at each other at the same time, but they can put spells on each other. So - but everything would be all too easy to block, that's the thing. If Harry attacks...

Kevin: If all he had to do is shout out any random spell that comes to...

Ben: Any random spell, right.

Kevin: Yeah. I think it's...

Ben: Because, what was it that saved Harry? It was Expelliarmus. [laughs]

Micah: Well...

Kevin: Yeah. I think it's going to come down to something beyond - I think either one of them is going to lose their wand or, you know, something unique. It's not going to be wand on wand.

Mikey: You know, I have a question about that, maybe you guys know. Is it that - if they were able to just toss out anything, you know, wouldn't Harry's shield charm or shield spell backfire Voldemort's Avada Kedavra then, because they're technically connecting? Or is it that the spell has left the wand and it's no longer connected? How does Priori Incantantem actually work?

Kevin: I think the wands just link. It completely nullifies whatever spell you were casting and just links the wands.

Eric: But it's not that a shield charm cast by Harry's wand would deflect something or cause a problem for Voldemort's wand. I just think it's when the wands are directly faced with each other.

Micah: Yeah, I don't think the spell matters.

Kevin: It's basically - exactly. Anything that comes out of the wand is nullified by the fact that the two wands are brother wands.

Ben: Right. Brother wands and they can't really - they can't fight each other. So...

Mikey: So they connect somehow.

Micah: This could be interesting for - on the cover of the American edition of Deathly Hallows, if they're both reaching for a wand, maybe Harry's reaching for it and Voldemort's trying to push it away.

Kevin: Yeah. I've seen someone - someone sent that in at one point, and I thought it was pretty interesting, where it comes down to just a single wand between the two of them, and whoever gets the wand first is going to, you know, win. That would be pretty interesting.

Eric: Well it's - what I like about Star Wars is that when they're lightsaber dueling, some of the coolest stuff happens without the lightsabers. I mean, lightsabers are cool, but they'll also punch each other or their lightsaber will get cut in half, or they'll lose it and they'll have to go hand-to-hand combat or jumping and rely on everything else. You know? It's not just strictly lightsaber battles, it's actually just hand-to-hand combat and face-to-face, and really battle of the wits, and, you know, everything else.

Ben: Well, guys, how athletic is Voldemort? How do you think Voldemort would handle hand-to-hand combat?

Kevin: Yeah, I don't think so, either.

Ben: He wouldn't have to use it, would he? Because he could just use wandless magic, he wouldn't even need his wand.

Eric: Well it's not exactly like you can test Harry and Voldemort to run the mile, either, now that they can just Apparate.

Kevin: Yeah [laughs].

Ben: Yeah, that's true [laughs]. Who can Apparate the quickest?

Eric: So to answer your question, I don't know how physically fit they are. Because...

Ben: I don't think it matters. See, that's the beauty of the wizarding world. You don't have to be...

[Kevin laughs]

Ben: To be a good wizard, you don't have to be buff. You don't have to be thin.

Eric: You can have treacle tart and pumpkin pasties all day long and just Apparate to work and never be late and never be fit.

Micah: Yeah.

Ben: Seriously, obesity must be a big problem, because imagine if you didn't have to walk anywhere.

[Kevin laughs]

Ben: Actually, you can probably just zap the fat right off.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: Oh boy.

Ben: There's probably some weight loss potion. Aw man, I wish I lived in that world. Thank you...

Micah: Ben, I think you just titled the show.

[Kevin laughs]

Ben: What?

Micah: "Zap The Fat Right Off."

Ben: "Zap The Fat Right Off"? Yeah. [laughs]

Mikey: Oh, man.

Voicemail: Aunt Petunia and Dumbledore

Ben: [laughs] Thank you. Thank you for that voicemail; we have another one here. Go ahead and roll the clip.

[Audio]: Hey, MuggleCast! I was reading Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone to my two younger sisters and I came across some quotes in the hardback edition of the U.S. book. On page 8, it said, "Nothing like this man has ever been seen on Privet Drive," of course referring to Albus Dumbledore. This made me think. Knowing that we're missing 24 hours from the Potters' death and where the book picked up, do you think Dumbledore talked to Aunt Petunia about her sister's death somewhere else than Privet Drive? If you think - if so, where? I would love to know. I love your show. Bye! Pickle!

Ben: That really sounds like pure conjecture to me. I don't - it's not necessarily - it's not unlikely, but I don't know. She - that was the purpose of the letter, I think. I don't think a letter would have been left if they had already met and discussed these things.

Kevin: Yeah, it was to explain the situation.

Eric: Right.

Micah: I think it's just setting the tone for the book. I mean, you know, it's supposed to be taking out of just the sort of mundane style of life that these people normally have and just...

Kevin: Yeah, it's supposed to be mysterious and...

Micah: Yeah. It sets up who Dumbledore is, too.

Ben: Yeah, and there wouldn't be as much of - I mean, okay, imagine if you're Petunia and Vernon, and a baby is just on your doorstep. What can you do, you know? Imagine how cruel - I mean, I know they're cruel people, but I don't think they're viciously cruel to the point where they wouldn't even... [laughs] You know, if someone drops a baby off on my doorstep, I'm going to take care of it until I can turn it over to the proper authorities or whatever, you know? So, I think that there really - I really doubt that there was a prior meeting to when Dumbledore showed up.

Kevin: Yeah, I'm fairly it's the letter that set everything up.

Voicemail: Harry Will Die

Ben: Yup. Thanks for that voicemail. Our next voicemail comes from two girls from Los Angeles, California:

[Audio]: Girl #1: Hi, I'm Audrey [unintelligible]...

Girl #2: And I'm [unintelligible], and we're two 11-year-old MuggleCast fans from Los Angeles, California.

Girl #1: Our theory is that Harry with die in Deathly Hallows because when he encountered the Mirror of Erised, his heart's desire was to be with his family, and dying would certainly make that happen.

Girl #2: We thought that the book would culminate in a big battle between Harry and Voldemort, in which they both die. That way, it would be sad because Harry dies, and happy because Harry sees his family again and Voldemort dies, too.

Girl #1: Jo could do the ending from many different takes. It would be totally an awesome way to end the series. We think it's a probable theory and we want to know what you guys think.

Girl #2: Keep up the good work!

Both girls: Bye!

Micah: I thought we have always talked on the show about how your desire changes. And I think that when Harry is so young, that is his desire, to be with his family, but I think if he looked in the Mirror now, it would be a completely different picture. Do you agree with that?

Ben: Yeah, I think that makes sense that his ultimate desire has changed and I think that he wants - saving the wizarding world is now more important to him than being with his family. Because Harry isn't a selfish person, he's going to put the needs of the few - I mean, excuse me - the needs of the many are going to out way the needs of himself. So...

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it goes back to the Mirror of Erised and if you believe that it will actually show what's true, because Dumbledore said it didn't show truth, nor knowledge...

Kevin: Or the future.

Ron and the Mirror of Erised

Eric: ...nor anything else like that. But at the same time - or the future, yeah. But at the same time, Ron as since become Head Boy, and won the Quidditch Cup, and done all the crap that he saw in the Mirror. Or done all the stuff that he saw in the Mirror of Erised. So, I don't know what to think about the Mirror of Erised anymore, because what Ron saw came true. So...

Ben: Well, right, right, but that doesn't mean that all of the sudden it's prophetic, if that's even a word. Is that even a word?

Mikey: Yeah, it is.

Ben: It's not like - it doesn't mean - that does not mean that Mirror is predicting these things. Because if you think about it, people have their greatest desires in life come true at times, but at the same time a lot of people don't. So...

Kevin: And also, remember Ron has always had a confidence problem. And what better to boost his confidence than seeing that his desires - seeing himself as the Quidditch champion? It could've just been the fact that seeing it motivated him to try to be what he desired.

Ben: Because once he saw himself, than he realized, "I can do this." He realized the potential, maybe.

Mikey: You know, I don't think Ron was aiming that high to where - his most desires were out of his reach. You know? Being Head Boy and Quidditch Captain.

Ben: Well, at the time they seemed a bit extreme because he wasn't even on the Quidditch team, he was this first year who didn't...

Mikey: [imitating Ron] "Bloody hell, Harry!"

Ben: Hold on a second. Has Ron become Head Boy?

Kevin: No.

Mikey: No. We don't know. We don't know Seven yet.

Ben: Has Ron become Head Boy?

Mikey: No. He's not Quidditch Captain, either.

Eric: But he's been a Prefect.

Kevin: He's getting close. He's getting close to his goal. Yeah.

Eric: Well, he's a Prefect. He's getting very close.

Mikey: He's on the Quidditch team. He's a Prefect, yes, but he's not there yet.

Eric: Well, Weasley is our King! Come on.

Ben: Well, there you go. He didn't even achieve his goals, so...

Mikey: Yeah.

Eric: He came pretty darn close.

Mikey: And he's not coming back to school for year 7. He's going on the hunt for the Horcruxes.

Ben: Oh, please...

Mikey: So he's not getting that.

Ben: According to Mikey... according to Mikey.

Eric: Was he not in Book 6 holding the Quidditch Cup after he blocked all of the goals against Slytherin or something?

Mikey: Except for the whole point to that was so that Harry and Ginny can get their mack on.

Eric: Well, okay, they can get their mack on.

Ben: [laughs] Their mack...

Mikey: I'm trying to keep it nice and, you know, PG-rated here.

[Kevin laughs]

Mikey: I don't know. Honestly, I don't know about the whole Mirror of Erised. I don't think it means that much. I think we are looking way too much into it.

Eric: No, I don't agree that it shows much. I mean, I don't think it does, is what I was trying to say.

Back to Harry Dying

Micah: Well, I still think that his desire - at least on Harry's side - his desires have definitely changed, and it's not to be with his parents anymore, I don't think. When he was young, definitely. When he was only 11 years-old, then I'm sure after everything he has been through, that that's what he wants more than anything else.

Eric: He just needs someone to love. Someone to be loved.

Micah: But I always - I don't think that that foreshadows Harry dying, because I think in Sorcerer's Stone - and so many people have sent this in, and I don't know if we have talked about it - but there is a quotein pg. 262 of Sorcerer's Stone, and it says, "In years to come, Harry would never quite remember how he managed to get through his exams, when he half expected Voldemort to come bursting through the door at any moment."

Eric: Yeah! You know what? That's cool. I don't recall if we ever talked about that, Micah, but I remember reading that.

Micah: So, "In years to come..." I mean, that to me signifies much more than just a couple years down the road.

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. Me, too, because during years two through six as we have seen, Harry is not exactly thinking in depth about exam week in Year One. You know what I'm saying? So that J.K. put this, "In years to come Harry would never quite know how he got through exams in Year One..." We don't see him thinking about that, so it's possible - it is very possible that because...

Micah: Does he never quite remember, because he dies, or does he never quite remember, because...

Eric: [laughs] Yeah. In years to come, Harry would never quite reflect on the task of the...

Micah: Yeah. But if you are a supporter of Harry living, then that's definitely a quote that works in your favor, I think.

Eric: It's pretty good.

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