MuggleCast 98 Transcript
Deathly Hallows Talk at Enlightening
Keith Hawk: Ladies and gentlemen, MuggleCast!
[Cheering and applause]
Ben: Now that we have... Whoa! It's kind of loud over there, huh? Now that we have the all sorted out..
Ben: I think it's time to introduce ourselves. Of course, I'm Ben. I'm from MuggleNet. We started the website a long time ago. It's been a great journey. This summer has truly been the best summer of my life. I've been on the road with these four people here for a long time. We've been to England, Southern California, Northern California, Ohio... Everywhere. And...
Jamie: And we still aren't sick of it, which is pretty impressive after all that now.
Ben: So, who here has seen the movie?
[Some cheers from audience]
Andrew: Some people still haven't.
Audience: We're all waiting. Yeah.
Andrew: Oh, you're waiting.
Ben: Waiting for the IMAX screening?
Audience: There is a screening.
Andrew: Oh, okay. Oh.
Ben: What did you think? What did you think?
Jamie: It is a good idea to wait, but are you waiting to see it in IMAX especially?
Audience: Yeah! On campus.
Jamie: Wait, wait, wait. There's an IMAX on campus?
Andrew: They're busing.
Jamie: I was going to move there if there was.
Ben: He's going to transfer to Penn.
Jamie: I was going to transfer. That's pretty cool.
Ben: So, there's only a week left, folks. Basically a week until Deathly Hallows.
Andrew: A week and two days.
Ben: Can you believe it? I mean this is the moment we've all been waiting for. It's almost like..
Jamie: Since 1999.
Ben: It's almost like it snuck up on us. I mean, it came out of no where, and next thing you know, it's only a week left until Harry Potter is over.
Emerson: That was a long couple of years for me, Ben. Especially the whole sneaking up thing.
Ben: But I would rather have it be another two years before the nest book.
[Some audience members agreeing with a 'Yeah!']
Ben: I don't want this to end!
[Some audience members agreeing with a 'No!']
Ben: Boo yourself, okay? Boo yourself.
Andrew: Are we happy now that it is going to be released this year?
[A few audience members shout 'Yeah!' and applaud]
Andrew: Are some people happy?
[A few audience members shout 'Yeah!' and applaud]
Andrew: I mean, we really can't complain. We are getting the final book. Sol, it's not like, "Ahhh, not the final book." I don't know. Looking back now, I don't know if I'd be able to wait another year. Every thing would have been over by now. The movie would have been out, we would be sitting back at home. They would be nothing to do.
Jamie: But it's weird, though, you know, that we can go into 12 years - 11 or 12 years, and it's only a week to go before it's all over.
Andrew: Most people can say that they grew up with Harry Potter?
Andrew: All of us can say that pretty much, right?
Emerson: So we know why you guys are here. You want to talk about what's going to happen in the last book. So... How about...
Ben: They say we might know something about that. I don't know.
Will Harry Live?
Emerson: We thought about it a lot. Now, true. We don't have any inside information. THere's nothing we know that you don't know. We've just done a lot. We've spent a lot of time re-reading the books, and dissecting every word of every sentence and trying to figure out how it fits in JK Rowling's BIG mystery novel. Which Harry Potter is part mystery. You guys could agree on that. She likes to let us know what is going to happen in future books. So, without further ado. Let's get into it.
How about by a show of hands. Who thinks Harry Potter is going to die in the next book?
Andrew: Awww, man.
Emerson: Now, who thinks he is going to live?
[Some talk among audience]
Emerson: Who has no idea?
[Some talk among audience]
Ben: Who doesn't care?
Emerson: At least we got some honest people around.
Ben: Now, who here has a copy of MuggleNet.com's What will Happen in Harry Potter 7? [pause] That's what I like to see.
Emerson: He's so going to live!
Emerson: He's so going to live!
Ben: There is definitely a reason why the first chapter in the first book is titled 'The Boy Who Lived', and not 'The Boy Who Died.'
Girl: He has to die!
Girl: Okay, if you ever heard of the whole...
Ben: Wrong, sorry.
Ben: Go on, I'm just kidding. Go on. Go on.
Girl: The whole, like, hero's journey. Like, in Greek mythology and stuff. There is certain things a hero has to go through. And Harry Potter has passed through every single one. And the end is that he falls in eyes of his own people.
Girl: It's the tragic hero syndrome.
Jamie: It is, but it's more than that. I mean, I take it from a, sort of - if you look at Jo, she's spent however many years writing this book.
Ben: It's been years in the making.
Jamie: Yeah, okay. Thank you.
Jamie: Yeah, it's been years in the making. The entire Harry Potter series has taken up, you know, two decades of her life. If I had written a series that spanned that long, I couldn't kill my favorite character. I couldn't kill the person who everyone else loves, as well. You know, there are like billions of Harry Potter fans in the world.
Ben: Right. But the difference is, is it's something that regardless of whether or not Jo likes to kill Harry. Of course she didn't like kill Sirius and she didn't like to kill Dumbledore, but it was something that had to happen.
Jamie: Yeah, but there's no reason...
Ben: Now, could it be the case where she thought that Harry has to die? I mean, I'm not - I think he's going to live. I'm just kind of playing devil's advocate here. See what Jamie thinks.
Emerson: Do you really think that J.K. Rowling - we know she's had these books planned out from the beginning. So, just imagine that you're J.K. Rowling. Some of you may have done this before.
Emerson: Imagine - go back in time ten years. Now you're sitting on this train to Manchester. This is where you had the idea for the books. And you, in a flash of inspiration, you know now how you are going to write the bestselling book in the next decade. It's going to be about a boy...
Jamie: Who dies - who doesn't die.
Emerson: And then you make his life completely miserable and then you kill him! Yeah! Yeah!
Ben: Sounds cool to me.
Emerson: Well, I'm glad you're not writing the book then, Ben.
Andrew: I like to look at it from a marketing standpoint. Okay, because there has been a lot of speculation over this. You're a big fan of MSNBC, aren't you?
Andrew: Keith Olbermann did an excellent piece on why Harry should live. And he took it from a marketing standpoint. He said, can you imagine a Harry Potter theme park where the main character is going to be dead?
Andrew: Now granted, I'm sure J.K. Rowling - hold on, wait. Let me finish.
Emerson: She'd do it in a way, as such that it wouldn't be - I don't think it's going to be a negative thing. I think it going - If she did decide to kill him, I think it would be in a sense that, like a sacrificial form. Where we all felt good about what he did. We're still...
Andrew: I guess.
Jamie: No, no. He'd still be dead.
Emerson: Wouldn't it be kind of depressing? Wouldn't it be kind of depressing to go walking around the theme park? It would be walking around someone's grave.
Emerson: Like, what are we doing here guys? This is creepy.
Jamie: It would be like a library. There'd be a "no talking" policy.
Andrew: I could imagine if Harry did die, there would be like a tribute to him somewhere. Like a...
Andrew: Little tombstone. I'm just saying, it'd be nice. I'd pay tribute.
Ben: I just want to get a little scope on something here. Raise your hand if you cried when Sirius died?
Jamie: Thank you, yep.
Ben: Raise your hand if you cried when Dumbledore died? Raise your hand if you'd cry if Harry died?
Andrew: Of course.
Jamie: It's too much. It's too much.
Ben: Why is it too much?
Jamie: Because, I mean, although Sirius and Dumbledore were obviously very important characters. One was Harry's godfather, one was his mentor. You know, the whole wizard, you know, old person who always helps the hero.
Jamie: It's just like, they are important characters because they help him on his journey. But it's his journey and his burden to bear. Alone. So like, I just could not see him die. Ever.
Jamie: Ever. He can't die. He's too cool.
Ben: Kind of like Jamie.
Emerson: That's a good reason too. But also, I mean, when you think about what - J.K. Rowling, throughout these books, she's always made it very, very clear in every interview and throughout the books that it's the importance of the choices that you make is far more important than your abilities. So, what kind of moral message would J.K. Rowling be sending if she killed off Harry, after Harry has done nothing but be a good, true, loyal, and honest friend.
Jamie: Well, I have to say that she could do it in like a sacrificial thing, like you said. You know, where he dies to save someone else. So, her books do have intense moral messages in them. You know, the difference between right and wrong, good and evil. That kind of thing. So like, I can understand why she would do it from that point of view. But, he's not going to die. So...
Ben: Well, you have to get...
Jamie: It's pointless.
Ben: But also, yeah, also you have to take into account the Drew Spartz factor, is what I've named it. Emerson has a brother who is eight-years old, okay, and he likes Harry Potter quite a bit, and he's read all of the books, and there's some younger fans here in the crowd, and I just couldn't imagine the look on his face if Harry died. I mean, the post-Potter depression...
Ben: ...would be incredible. I mean, it's all going to be pretty bad as is, but imagine if the main character died. And Emerson made a good point about how – take two characters like Harry and Draco or Harry and Voldemort and their choices – they grew up in similar situations, but the choices that they've made have been different, and for J.K. Rowling to punish Harry again, you know. His parents have died, his godfather has died, his grand - I mean, his Dumbledore died.
Jamie: His Dumbledore died.
Ben: I was going to say his grandpa, but he's not his grandfather. So he's lost everything, now why does he deserve to die? I don't...
[Audience member says something too soft to hear]
Emerson: But why does Harry have to be the one who makes the sacrifice?
Jamie: No, that's good, but...
Emerson: Characters will have to make sacrifices, but why does it have to be Harry? Hasn't he sacrificed enough?
Jamie: And no, that...
Emerson: But why would you create a character where you do nothing but make his entire life miserable and then you kill him at the end of the series? That's not – but why Harry? Why can't somebody else? Why can't Snape sacrifice himself? Why can't other characters step up?
[Audience calls out responses]
Emerson: We'll get into Snape in a minute.
Emerson: Simmer down now.
Jo's Howling Reaction
Andrew: He could go peacefully, I think that's a big point to bring up. Now hold on, I'm just on my Apple iPhone right here, and I just happen...
Ben: Which he just bought yesterday, by the way.
Andrew: I just bought yesterday.
Andrew: Hold on, wait, I just – I was just kidding. I didn't – I wasn't trying to sound arrogant. I just want to quote something J.K. Rowling said. I'm on MuggleNet. It looks great on that Apple iPhone. But anyway...
Ben: I think Apple's paying him to say that.
Jamie: Yeah, they really are.
Andrew: She said, "When I finished one chapter near the end I absolutely howled, it had been planned for so long... [I felt] euphoria, devastated..."
Emerson: Yeah, well, but...
Andrew: She was completely destroyed when she finished this chapter she had been writing – she had planned for so long. This is, I think, the chapter she's had planned since the beginning, because she's said for so long that she's had this one chapter for Book 7 finished before she even finished Sorcerer's Stone.
Jamie: But that could just be because it's the final chapter of Harry Potter. It's going to be a...
Andrew: It's not the final chapter. It's not the final chapter.
Ben: She feels such a strong emotional attachment to this series...
Ben: ...because it's been her brain child for so long. That doesn't necessarily mean that something bad happened in the final chapter. It could mean that she finally was like, "Wow, I'm actually done with this. I can't believe it."
Andrew: Yeah, I guess. But it's something interesting to take into account when she's had it planned for so long, and yet she's devastated. She "absolutely howled." It's emotional. I don't know if it could be Harry having a good ending.
Jamie: But the entire books are emotional, as well, you know. She's going to "howl," as you put it, because right at the end, she's spent all these years writing these books. It's going to be emotional whether she writes that Harry dies or lives, because she's finished. She's done with it. That's the end of her job, you know?
Andrew: Wouldn't that be funny? Seeing her howl?
Jamie: I'd love to see her howl, yeah.
Ben: Has anyone else considered perhaps Harry doesn't have to die, but maybe he'll have to make some type of sacrifice in another form? Like giving up his magic? I've heard that a lot.
Emerson: No, no, no.
Andrew: That's what older Ben was saying.
Emerson: No, no, no, no, no, no.
Jamie: Actually, that reminds me of...
Emerson: No, no, no, no.
Ben: Emerson, might have already read the book or something, because he seems to have it all figured out.
Emerson: No, no, no, no. He's not going to give up his magic. That would be like the most depressing end to the books I could ever see.
[Everyone shouts over each other]
Ben: So much for your happy ending, I mean.
Ben: I mean, who says that the books have to end happily?
Emerson: I do.
Andrew: I think they'll...
Emerson: Jo and I are best friends, and you guys know.
Jamie: That would be a fate worse than death, though. Going from having magical powers to none. I'd rather...
Jamie: Imagine knowing that that world's out there and knowing everything that you can do and not being able to do anything. Kind of like Filch really.
Ben: Yeah, and also what about Voldemort? I think – who here... I think perhaps that Voldemort won't die but Dumbledore continually reminds Voldemort that there is a fate worse than death. So perhaps Voldemort...
Jamie: Will lose his power, yeah.
Ben: ...lose his powers or maybe be kissed by the dementor or something or other.
Emerson: Or be forced to work as a...
Jamie: If he...
Emerson: ...Muggle janitor or something.
Jamie: You just bring up a very interesting point. If he was kissed by a dementor, because obviously he only has a maimed soul in his body, what would happen to him?
Ben: I don't know.
Jamie: I don't know either.
Andrew: We do see Harry and Voldemort on the cover, the US cover dueling without wands. So maybe they don't have to use their magic necessarily...
Jamie: They fight.
Ben: Well of course, of course...
Andrew: It's definitely not a fist fight. They're not having a fist fight.
Ben: Right because they can't duel because of Priori Incantatem and for those of you who've seen the movie you know how when Dumbledore and Voldemort were dueling, how it wasn't like it was just normal magic. It became this upper advanced magic where it was almost like they were battling with elements of the earth. And it was so much like they were beyond spells, spells were just so trivial.
Jamie: I just have to say this because I keep making this point but did anyone see Pokemon the first movie?
Jamie: Okay, do you know when Mew and MewTwo were battling right over the edge and they're throwing like these balls of elements and fire, at each other. It was just like that in the film, I thought, anyway.
Andrew: I need to watch that.
Ben: But as I was saying, perhaps Harry, in this last book, takes his magical ability to the next level where he can actually survive a duel with Voldemort, where it's no longer the case where he's the little kid who lucks out. I think we're finally going to see that. And Book 7 will be the book where finally Harry grows up and becomes a mature wizard because with Dumbledore gone, it's time for him to step up and take the reigns.
Harry The Horcrux
Emerson: So in our book we put forth a theory that is – that was at first extremely controversial and it's still very controversial, but it doesn't seem as quite the crackpot theory that it used to. Now, we think that on the night that Voldemort showed up at Godric's Hollow to kill Harry, we know that he planned to make a Horcrux out of Harry's death. Now, when the Avada Kedvara spell backfired, what we think happened was the Horcrux spell that Voldemort prepared, or would have had prepared was released and Harry was turned into an accidental Horcrux. Now this is the part where a lot of you guys start going [in a silly voice] "Those Muggle boys and their theories."
Ben: Yeah. Last week in - it was only a few days ago we were in Los Angeles and we brought up this theory, we heard, "NOOOOOOOOO!"
Emerson: So, the reason why we think this happened, the "crux" of the theory...
[Audience laughs and moans]
Emerson: He's so punny, ha ha ha.
Andrew: So funny.
Emerson: Is that Harry and Voldemort share this mind connection that can't be explained by anything else that we've read in the books so far. There's no other theory to explain it. Now this connection that they share is the same connection that Voldemort and Nagini share. Nagini is Voldemort's snake and a known...
Emerson: Now when Dumbledore...
Audience Member: A suspected Horcrux.
Emerson: A suspected Horcrux, right.
Ben: We think Dumbledore's right about this one because we need to trust Dumbledore.
Andrew: Yeah, we do.
Emerson: Now when Harry is in the department of mysteries he takes on the perspective – when he started – he started having these visions, and he imagined he's the snake biting Arthur Weasley. Wouldn't it make sense then that the reason why Harry could see into the mind of Voldemort's snake is because all three of them share a piece of the same soul.
Ben: [in a deep voice] "They got soul."
Jamie: And also I can tell you that when Dumbledore said that Voldemort put a piece of himself inside Harry, it's – we've never seen magical powers, an actual part of the magical power be transfered. So we think that he must be referring to the...
Emerson: A piece of soul.
Jamie: ...a piece of soul.
Emerson: Literally a piece of soul. Now Voldemort and Harry share all these connections, all these similarities that again can't be explained by anything that we've read in the books so far. They were both selected by brother wands, Harry can open up the Chamber of Secrets even though he's not the heir of Slytherin.
Emerson: When was the last time in the books somebody who wasn't the heir of Slytherin opened up the Chamber of Secrets?
Jamie: And also, and everyone says it's because he can speak Parseltounge, but it was specifically said that you have to be the heir of Slytherin.
Ben: You have to be the heir of Slytherin.
Emerson: It was Ginny Weasley who opened it up, and she used the diary which was a known...
Emerson: Why would the Sorting Hat even consider putting Harry in Slytherin? Harry is the Gryffindor-iest Gryffindor who was ever Gryffindored a Gryffindor.
What was the Sorting Hat thinking? It must have seen something else inside him.
Ben: Yeah Keith, what were you thinking? Come on Keith. [laughs] Sorry! Keith does the Sorting Hat by the way. Something else that's interesting is, this isn't major evidence or anything but in the Divinations class in Prisoner of Azkaban, Trelawney is known of course for making crackpot predictions and often times she's really off her rocker, but she is a true Seer. We she that she's made two real prophecies, and her grandmother was really famous or whatever, so we know that she is a true Seer and something at all Seers can be able to do, at least I think makes sense, is to be able to, you know, tell simple things like birth date based off your astrological sign and all that, and when she looks at Harry in Book 3 she says "You were born during the winter months, blah blah blah" and he was like "actually I was born in July." And recently we learned on J.K. Rowling's website that Voldemort's birthday is New Year's Eve, which is obviously a winter month. So perhaps Trelawney was getting mixed signals because of this peice of soul inside of Harry.
Emerson: Now throughout the books, Voldemort has been driven by the single minded desire to kill Harry. That's all he's concerned about is just killing Harry. But then after the scene in the fifth book where he possesses Harry in the Department of Mysteries, after that moment in the books he stops trying to kill him. He specifically instructs the Death Eaters not to harm Harry. Now why would he do that unless he realized that there were pieces of his soul inside Harry which he needs to remove first before killing him.
Ben: Now, many of you - I have the feeling the question is going to come up, "Well, Emerson you seem so confidant that Harry is going to live, now how would it be possible for Harry to live if he's a Horcrux? He's a Horcrux, he's got to destroy himself, I got you Emerson I got you right there!"
Ben: Well, sorry. You don't have Emerson. I have Emerson.
Emerson: Maybe it's not just coincidence that J.K. Rowling happned to introduce creatures that are capable of sucking out a wizard's soul.
Jamie: Yeah, but you can't sort of go up to them and request q soul-sucking session.
Emerson: No wait, those dementors are pretty horny for some soul, maybe they would, you know?
Ben: Okay, for example I mean, if we know that Dementors usually suck the soul out of the mouth, perhaps if Harry's scar is what denotes that he's a Horcrux, perhaps you know, just give him a little [makes kissing noise] on the forehead. That's all I'm saying.
Emerson: Now Dumbledore says something really strange to Harry after Harry is mourning the death of Sirius.
Ben: "Suffering like this Harry proves you're still a man."
Emerson: That's weird.
Who says things like that?
Emerson: Proves your still a man? Dumbledore could see that there was something less than human inside of Harry, so that's why he was congratulating Harry for still being able to feel empathy. Now the crack on the ring, after Dumbledore removes the Horcrux, is the same shape as Harry's scar. The ring being also, a known Horcrux.
Emerson: It just keeps piling up, doesn't it guys?
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