Grey Areas

Ben: Now there are a few grey areas in the theory. For example, since we don't know exactly how a Horcrux is created, you can't exactly tell - because that night in Godric's Hollow some people say well, how could he go there intending to kill Harry, make a Horcrux out of Harry's death, and Harry accidentally becomes a Horcrux. We don't know how it happened; we're just saying that it did, because Slughorn's very vague about the process that you have to go through to make a Horcrux. So we don't know, do you mark the object beforehand? If I want to make this water bottle into a Horcrux, do I kill Emerson first...

[Audience laughs]

Ben: ... or do I kill him after? I mean, it's just - we just don't know what, exactly, it takes. And at one of the events - there's this website, like, Red Robin Publications, or Red Bird, Red Hen Publications or something - and they discussed about the Horcrux theory, about Harry being a Horcrux, and they're thinking that when you kill somebody...

[Phone rings]

Andrew: I'm sorry, it's my Apple iPhone.

[Audience laughs]

Ben: Sorry, his brand-new Apple iPhone is ringing.

Andrew: Let me just silence it.

Jamie: Answer it. Answer it on-air.

Ben: So, where was I? I was about to make a very good point. Oh, yeah, yeah. And they're saying that - so, Dumbledore says that when you kill somebody, your soul is split. Now, we think that you'd have to guide that piece of soul into something or other - I don't know how the Horcrux works, but he's a Horcrux.

Jamie: And also...

[Audience laughs]

Jamie: He is, but...

Audience Member: If part of Voldemort is in Harry, how come he can't control the Basilisk in Chamber of Secrets?

Emerson: Now, Arthur Levine, who's actually had a chance to read the seventh book, he mentions that in the book, Harry is in a, quote, "interesting position."

[Audience laughs]

Emerson: Now, that can be interpreted in a lot of different ways, but wouldn't you consider having a piece of your arch-enemy's soul inside you to be an interesting position?

Jamie: Em, that could be anything. An interesting position could mean anything.

Ben: Well, we're just saying that that could fit.

Jamie: That would be interesting, definitely, but...

Ben: Well, Andrew, Andrew, Andrew, I haven't heard your thoughts on the Horcrux theory; I've been dying to hear them. What do you think?

Andrew: Well, listen. This is the first time I'm involved in one of these MuggleNet book talks, and I'm pretty interested. But, okay...

Emerson: Seriously, how right are we?

Andrew: What? I don't know, Emerson, because I'm just thinking now, that, if Harry was a Horcrux, have you guys really explained yet how this is going to be taken out of him?

Jamie: Well, yeah. We talked about the dementor thing with the soul-sucking, but...

Andrew: But, I don't...

Emerson: We don't know specifically how the soul-sucking works...

Andrew: How are you going to get a Dementor to take it out of Harry? That seems, like - what are you going to do?

Jamie: You'd have to tell him - you'd have to tell him...

Ben: You put them under the Imperius Curse.

Emerson: Dementors love soul, they wouldn't need that much convincing.

Ben: Just put the Dementor under the Imperius Curse, and say, "suck soul." And they do it.

[Audience laughs]

Jamie: But, you'd have to tell them to get Voldemort's soul and not Harry's own soul as well.

Ben: Right.

Jamie: And I don't think they're that sort of complicated creatures, they just do it.

Emerson: But you're not seeing the forest from the trees here. I mean, the fact that these creatures exist offers a lot of evidence that the reason that - they specialize in exactly what Harry needs, so the specifics of how the soul would come out, we don't know, but it's not outside the realm of possibility, they could find some way to get a dementor to do what they do best and suck out a soul.

Audience Member: There's actually an excellent piece of fanfiction on the web right now that details that very scenario, and the...

Ben: Do you happen to be the author?

[Audience laughs]

Audience Member: No, I actually just started reading fanfic, like, a couple weeks ago, and I've actually gotten into a lot of it because a lot of it varies and makes sense to read in that forum. But the author - she told it as, with the two souls residing in Harry - of course, one is Harry's soul, it's complete, it's full, the other is a fragment of Voldemort's soul that needs to come out.

Ben: Yeah, yeah, and also, Harry has smart friends like Hermione. I think Hermione - you know, because perhaps Dumbledore was a Horcrux, and knew, and that's why his hand turned all black, and perhaps he didn't know what he was doing. And also, if you're into fanfiction, read the Psychic Serpent Trilogy by Barb on FictionAlley.net.

Jamie: That is good.

Emerson: Well, think about it. Wormtail still owes Harry a life debt. And Wormtail's always creeping around, looking for information he can use for his own benefit. Maybe Wormtail will pay off his life debt by telling how he can remove the Horcrux from inside him. It's just a thought.

Jamie: I'd say one final point, though.

[Audience member replies]

Emerson: Why wouldn't he? He'd save Harry's life by doing that.

Jamie: One final point where it falls down slightly but - I don't know if it does because the same rules don't apply. But when he goes to Godric's Hollow, he knows that the person who has the power to vanquish him is going to be there , so - and when he's talking to Slughorn, he says, "that seven is the most powerful magical number." So, I would have thought when you go to face the person the only person who can possibly kill you and vanquish you, you would go there already with seven Horcruxes, but obviously the scenario that happened there had never ever been prescribed in history books. So, it could have been that the Horcruxes were made because of...

Ben: Right. Dumbledore said that the night Voldemort went to Godric's Hollow, he was intending to make a Horcrux out of Harry's death because what more of a significant death could it be than the person who was going to vanquish him?

Jamie: Oh, I agree.

Ben: With the power.

Jamie: But if someone has the power to vanquish you, you would assume that they have intensive power of magic to kill you and his defense against magical power is his seven Horcruxes because you know he can't be killed with that, so it's just a case of wearing down his opponent until he can, because if he can't be killed, then the other person can't kill him. So, I'd have thought he'd go to Godric's Hollow already with the most amount of Horcruxes there to face his arch-enemy. But saying that, I'm not sure, because it is an important death, obviously.

Ben: Right.

Emerson: Some people say this theory - I mean, how can Voldemort just accidentally make a Horcrux. I mean, we know through the books that you have to mean your spell, but maybe - first of all, maybe it was a nonverbal spell and also, Voldemort's soul just killed James and Lily so his soul would have already been split and ready to be directed into whatever object he chose and at that point, he was casting Avada Kedavra, and Harry is "The Chosen One." So. it's not outside the realm of possibility that that's how that Horcrux was released in Harry; it was made into one.

What if Harry Knew He Was a Horcrux?

Andrew: The reason why I think this stands is because he does have a scar on his forehead.

Jamie: Which is the same as the one in the ring.

Andrew: It's never been explained. It's the same one on the ring. So, and what was it Hagrid told Harry back in Sorcerer's Stone he said to him? "Voldemort left a mark on your forehead that..." but it was never really explained. Does Voldemort know - Dumbledore?

Ben: We think that Dumbledore may have had an idea that Harry was a Horcrux because we think - some people say, "Well, why wouldn't Dumbledore reveal that information to Harry. Isn't it obvious that it's something that would be useful to him?"

Andrew: Right.

Jamie: It wouldn't though.

Ben: But, see, the problem is we think that Harry doesn't react very rationally, so...

Andrew: Do you think he would kill himself?

Ben: Yeah, we think that Harry wouldn't think it through, would isolate himself from everybody and decide that, "Well, I have to go," you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: He would decide that...

Jamie: But it isn't that he doesn't react rationally. It's just that he puts other people before himself so he could get rid of himself.

Emerson: But he also really doesn't act rationally; he kind of just charges head first into danger the way any Gryffindor would. But frankly, I mean, I'm not hating on Harry here. I mean, we run a Harry Potter website, but if I was alive in the Wizarding World right now and I knew that the future of our species depended on Harry Potter defeating the Dark Lord, I wouldn't sleep soundly at night.

Andrew: And also, look at Book 5, where Dumbledore didn't want to talk to Harry about all this because he didn't want to scare Harry. He didn't want to make Harry feel any worse that he already did. So imagine Dumbledore then telling him...

Ben: It wasn't only that, though. It was that he had to isolate himself from Harry because Voldemort - he thought that if he isolated himself from Harry, that Voldemort would be less interested in trying to control Harry's mind. That was part of it, too.

Emerson: But Dumbledore does only tell Harry on a need-to-know basis. Every book, he sits him down and says, "I'm going to tell you everything," and then he doesn't.

[Audience laughs]

Andrew: Yes.

Emerson: So - but I think Dumbledore knew what he was doing by not telling Harry that he was a Horcrux. Harry could do something very rash if he knew that there was a piece of his arch-enemy's soul inside of him.

Andrew: He definitely would do it. You think he would do it, right? He's the hero. He wants to save the day.

Ben: Yeah. Of course.

Andrew: "I'll sacrifice myself. I'll apologize to Ron and Hermione in my suicide note..."

Jamie: But if you take the prophecy to be worded as it talks about Harry, then if he kills himself, then he couldn't then go on to defeat Voldemort.

[Audience Member speaks]

Andrew: Well, that...

Jamie: Sorry?

[Audience Member speaks]

Jamie: Well, I don't know, because wouldn't the sword just goes straight through his neck?

Andrew: But if all the Horcruxes are destroyed except for Harry's, and then he has to kill himself, isn't he still defeating...

Jamie: He would have to take Voldemort down with him, yes.

Andrew: Down first - oh.

Ben: Nowhere in the prophecy does it say that one must live if the other survives. I mean, one must live if the other dies. Do you understand?

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Ben: So both could die, and that's not - it isn't like one has to live and the other has to die. Enough Horcruxiness.

Andrew: We'll know in nine days. Isn't that weird?

Jamie: Pardon?

Andrew: We will know in nine days. Isn't that weird?

Jamie: Can I just...

Andrew: Now, if you guys are wrong...

Ben: Yeah! If we're wrong, if we're wrong...

Andrew: What's going to happen?

Emerson: You can blame us for making predictions, just like every other Harry Potter fan does! Seriously.

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: Blame us for having this...

Andrew: They're standing behind this so strongly!

Ben: We have good evidence, though. I mean, you can't deny the evidence is there. There are a few areas - I can see that. The more and more we 've done these book tours, it's almost like I've convinced myself more and more.

[Audience laughs]

Ben: Because at first it was like - we were both kind of, like, "You know, we don't particularly subscribe to this theory, but Harry might be a Horcrux for these reasons." Then by the end of our book tour, we were saying, " Yeah! He's definitely a Horcrux!"

[Audience laughs]

Ben: You know, "Don't you question me!"

[Audience laughs]

Ben: So our attitudes quickly evolved about Harry being a Horcrux.

Emerson: It's because we've now put this theory out in front of thousands of fans in cities all around the country, and we've never heard - every time we do it, we usually get just one more piece of evidence that supports the theory, and we've never heard anything that can actually...

Ben: Disprove it.

Emerson: ...disprove the theory, so we've just added more and more evidence.

Ben: We had a few scares, though. We had an event in Paramus, New Jersey, back in March, and this lady in the second row says that, "Yeah! In Half-Blood Prince, Slughorn says that you have to mark - the Horcrux is made after the death!" And we are like, "[gasps] Oh my gosh! We just published a book about this."

[Audience laughs]

Ben: "Whoops!" And then we whipped out the book, and we actually told her, "You show us right now!" You know, because she made an outrageous claim, and then she couldn't find it, so that was a scare.

[Audience laughs]

Emerson: Enough Horcruxes for right now!

Theory on the Prophecy

Jamie: I want to bring out a point, which I think is the best theory I have ever heard in my life, and I've been asking everyone about it just because it's so good. In the prophecy, it says that "the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches," yeah? As in he approaches because he is being born soon. But right at that moment, Snape is walking towards the room, because obviously, he overhears the prophecy. So, I want to hear what people think about it being Snape that has the power to vanquish the Dark Lord.

[Audience all talks at once]

Ben: Okay, no, Jamie. Here's how I think about it. I think about it in the sense that Harry is the one who is going to be the one who is actually going to kill Voldemort...

[Audience continues to murmur their thoughts in the background]

Ben: ...I think that Snape is going to assist in that, and in hindsight, once we look at the prophecy, we're going to think, "Oh, Jo was hinting at this there." I don't actually think that Snape is the one who is born as the seventh month dies.

Jamie: Okay.

Audience Member: Because he's born in January.

Ben: Yeah, that's right.

[Audience laughs]

Jamie: So wait, by the end of the - just to show my complete lack of knowledge here...

[Audience laughs]

Jamie: ... right at the end of the prophecy, it says, "The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord is born as the seventh month dies?"

Ben: Well, it "approaches" also.

Jamie: Sorry, "as the seventh month approaches?"

Ben: It says, "The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches, will be born as the seventh month dies?" I don't know! I call myself a fan!

Andrew: Wasn't there a theory that said "approaches" means someone who is actually walking.

Ben: Yeah! But that's what we were just saying! [laughs]

Jamie:

[Audience laughs]

Andrew: Oh. Sorry. My bad.

Ben: Someone's out to lunch!

[Andrew and audience laugh]

Jamie: No, yeah. Well, okay, but that's just completely shot down, but I still think it's so awesome.

[Audience laughs]

Snape Debate

Emerson: What do you guys think about Snape?

[Audience yells various answers]

Emerson: How about this? How about show of hands, show of hands. Raise your hand if you think Snape is working for Voldemort?

[Audience laughs]

Emerson: Raise your hand if you think that Snape is working for the Order of the Phoenix?

Audience Member: But he's a jerk.

[Audience laughs]

Emerson: Raise your hand if you think Snape is working for himself?

Jamie: I'd vote for...

Ben: Raise your hand - raise your hand if you think Snape is working for the Giants?

[Audience laughs]

Emerson: Raise your hand if you think Snape is a huge, slimy git no matter who he's working for?

[Audience cheers]

Emerson: Raise your hand if you're tired of raising your hand?

[Audience laughs]

Jamie: I've always thought with Snape, he's like - you've had two classes of people. You've had the amazing wizards and witches who like you know, are above everyone, so you have Voldemort and Dumbledore who you know - they can only face up against themselves because they are more powerful than any one else. And then you have sort of like one class down and in that class is Snape.

Ben: Second-tier.

Jamie: Yeah is Snape.

Ben: I think Snape is the third most powerful.

Jamie: He's the third most powerful. All of the other teachers are - they are powerful as well but Snape is - sorry?

Audience Member: I said that's a scary thought.

Jamie: It is a scary thought but he... I mean he's working for himself but if, I assume everyone here thinks Harry's going to win. Good is going to triumph over evil. Well, I hope you all think that.

Ben: I think Snape is perhaps one of the most clever characters...

Jamie: He is and powerful, very, very powerful.

Ben: Because if you think about it, I mean if - regardless of who he's been hoodwinking whether it's the good side or the bad side, or if he's hoodwinking both of them at the same time, that's absolutely incredible because he's fooling two of the greatest wizards of all time and if he managed to do that somehow that's pretty amazing. But we think that - in our book we reached the conclusion that Snape is working for the Order of the Phoenix. Now, there's a scene when Dumbledore dies - and by the way he is dead okay?

[Audience laughs]

Ben: Just so you know. I don't want to hear anything about Dumbledore making Horcruxes. I don't want to - we've heard it all folks.

Emerson: And I quote J.K. Rowling, "Dumbledore is definitely dead." You cannot wriggle around that, that is pretty explicit. Okay, go ahead.

Ben: So, here's the scene, Dumbledore, he's laying there incapacitated. He basically - he's helpless. There's Draco - and Draco's has to kill him because early on in Half-Blood Prince we hear Narcissa Malfoy and Snape talking about his son's task and that Snape will have to carry it out and ofcourse they make the Unbreakable Vow. So, at that one crucial moment when Draco proves that he is not a killer, sort of - he can't kill Dumbledore. Dumbledore doesn't even have a wand, he just can't do it and he pansies out. And finally, Snape steps in and Dumbledore turns to Snape and says, [impersonating Dumbledore] "Severus, please."

[Everyone laughs]

Ben: Now the first question we have to ask ourselves is "Why would Dumbledore, a man who thinks death is nothing but the next great adventure, be begging his trusted friend for his life?" He really wouldn't be doing that. Jamie take over.

Jamie: He's too powerful to beg...

Ben: I just know.

Jamie: ...no I'm just saying he's too powerful to beg, Dumbledore. And as you said you know, death is just the next great adventure so I could never see him doing that, but you know what we think is that he's saying you know, "Please Severus, please do the task that you were appointed to do." And also, if you remember earlier in the book, Hagrid hears Snape and Dumbledore arguing and they're like - and he's like, he said Snape was saying to Dumbledore that he didn't want him to keep taking him for granted and that the task was bigger than him.

Ben: But you're saying that he didn't want to do it.

Jamie: ...yeah, yeah so then in the scene when he's killed he's - Dumbledore's saying, "Please, please, please do it. Do the task that you were supposed to do" and then the look of utmost revulsion on Snape's face wasn't for Dumbledore, but was for the task he was just about to perform.

Emerson: Dumbledore definately knew that he was about to die.

Jamie: Yeah, he did.

Emerson: He had to have had that plan. There's no way a sixth-year wizard is going to keep Dumbledore from doing what he wants to do, when he wants to do it.

Jamie: How he wants to do it?

Emerson: How he wants to do it. I mean at any moment Dumbledore could have just laid the smack down and said, "Draco, I'm Dumbledore! You're not!" And at the very least Fawkes could have come to save his life. There's no way Dumbledore didn't know he was about to die. Dumbledore's death served a purpose. This is...

Ben: It was inevitable.

Emerson: J.K. Rowling killing Harry and killing Dumbledore. Dumbledore's death was crucial for Harry's development.

Jamie: And also, it was. And also if you look to the scene in Order of the Phoenix when Dumbledore and the Ministry witches and wizards are in his office, he can take down two outstanding aurors, he can take down...

Ben: The Minister for Magic.

Jamie: ...Fudge. He can take down any one he wants basically. He's that cool.

Ben: Right. And something else that's interesting to point out is that in Half-Blood Prince we learn that when Voldemort - Voldemort tried to apply to the school to teach Defense Against the Dark Arts and he put a curse on the position. Now, why would Dumbledore assign Snape - finally let him have the position of the Defence against the Dark Arts teacher unless he knew that Snape was going to be leaving at the end of the year and perhaps that Dumbledore was going to be - that he was going to be checking out himself.

Jamie: That's true and you have to see Dumbledore's plan as a grand master plan. He thinks of everything. You know? I just think that everything he does, and everything that happens, he knows about. Do you know what I mean? Like, if he wanted to he could have stopped Draco and a few Death Eaters. You know? like, Fenrir Greyback is scary to most people, but to Dumbledore he's just a person that fears death, you know? Dumbledore sees the big picture.

Ben: We hear in Sorcerer's Stone where, you know, he doesn't need a cloak to become invisible. Now, why couldn't he just become invisible right then and do a barrel roll and just roll right out of the way?

[Audience laughs]

Emerson: Do a barrel roll!

Ben: You know what I mean? He wouldn't even need an invisibility cloak. So, he obviously could have gotten out of there if he wanted to.

Andrew: I think something is going to have to be explained very early on in the book about Snape, because this whole time Harry is going to want to be after Snape. Or somebody in the Order is going to have to explain to him, "Look, Snape is good for this specific reason."

Ben: Yeah. I could see Lupin - I could see Lupin doing that.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: Well, also, forgetting, the sixth book is Snape's book, you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: It was named after Snape, so he's ridiculously important.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jamie: And that has to follow on. Sorry?

Audience Member: I kind of disagree with what you just said though, because Snape and not knowing is- creates such great tension of the book that it won't have to be in...

Andrew: Well, that's true, there will be a lot of tension, but you also have to think that if Harry - Harry is going to want to be after Snape the whole time, especially if he makes himself known.

Audience Member: No, he knows that he has to go after Voldemort.

Andrew: He does know that, but at the same time, he's the guy that just killed Dumbledore.

Jamie: He's definitely going to go try to kill him.

Ben: He's going to be seeking vengeance, but I don't think that's going to be, like - yeah. He's not going to be driven by that.

Andrew: All right.

Ben: He's going to be driven by the fact that this is it. You know, he has no one to lean on and it's finally the time for him to step up...

Andrew: Yeah.

Ben: ...and be a man.

Andrew: I still think someone's going to have to explain that Snape - something has to be explained about Snape to comfort Harry that Dumbledore asked him to do it.

Ben: But does it, though? I mean, I don't think - I think that it's going to be that one shocking moment when we finally find out Snape's true loyalty. I think it's going to come, perhaps near the end of the story, you know, in some sort of battle where Snape steps in the way, or finally stands up to Voldemort and says, "No, this isn't how it's going to be."

Jamie: No, because, Ben, Harry thinks he stands on Voldemort's side now. He doesn't know that it was part of Dumbledore's grand plan. So...

Ben: Right. So, that's why Snape would step in at the end and reveal his true loyalty.

Jamie: But if their paths cross - if Snape's and Harry's paths cross Harry is going to try and kill him.

Ben: Right, of course, I think Snape is going to win, because, you know, he's - for example, if you look him in the Occlumency scenes in Order of the Phoenix, it is so obvious that, like, the master and the student, the teacher and the student. It's so obvious and I don't think that, unless there was some odd - Harry lucks out again, does some super back flip over the top Snape...

[Audience laughs]

Ben: ...kicks him in the back of the head, and then AKs him, I don't think it's going to happen. Maybe - I say, that Snape would obviously be the more experienced wizard in that case. He would get his way out of it and, like I said, I think it's going to be one moment in the book where Snape finally shows his true loyalty, by either standing up to Voldemort and trying to do something, but I really think that it's going to be him either way.

Jamie: And also, getting back to the Occlumency scenes, you know, when you first read it, you think, "Oh, Snape's just shouting at Harry. He doesn't really care he just wants to get out of there," but if you read it more closely, he's teaching him. He's really, really - he wants him to do well. He shouts at him because he can't get it, because he realizes how important it is that Harry learns Occlumency, and it really is. If you look at the development in the next book, the whole Voldemort possessing Harry thing, it's so important that he learns these things, and Snape is actually worried.

Andrew: Right.

Ben: And Snape had so many chances to - to just not have done anything. For example, we see in Order of the Phoenix when - the movie also - when Snape is - excuse me - when Harry is in Umbridge's office, and Umbridge says, "Snape get me your Veritaserum." "I have used my last stores on so and so." And then he's getting ready to walk away and then Harry says, "They have Padfoot in the place where it's hidden," I don't know the line from the book; that's the line from the movie, and at that one moment, Snape could just say, you know, he could actually mean he has no idea what Harry's talking about, and choose not to act on that, because that's such a vague thing to say to someone. He knows exactly what he's talking about, and the fact that Snape acted upon that, when he could have just done nothing, I mean, and there would be no question about it, to me, proves his loyalty to Dumbledore and the Order.

Emerson: And Dumbledore as he - after he removes the Horcrux from the ring, and he's near death, and Snape saves his life. Snape is, obviously the best Potions master at Hogwarts, so he could have just pretended to do his best effort, and let him die anyway, and nobody would have been the wiser, because nobody knows their potions like Snape does.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emerson: Snape's had so many opportunities to kill Harry, bring him to Voldemort, to do whatever, and he never has. He saves Harry's life, or he might abuse him, you know, mentally and verbally, but he doesn't - he's definitely not. He can't be working for Voldemort. He's had way too many opportunities.

Jamie: Yeah, and also, you have to, you know - his life hasn't been perfect and people haven't trusted him after the whole, you know, Voldemort/Prophecy thing and him being a Death Eater. So, Dumbledore is the only person who's trusted him. And his life hasn't been perfect so having that person in your life who is the only one who trusts you, unconditionally trusts you, about everything, you know, it would be - it would take a tough man and an evil man to not, you know...

Ben: To betray that trust.

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: Yeah, yeah. And for example, I think there's - we never really find out why Dumbledore trusts Snape and I think that's something that's going to be revealed to us in this final book is we're going to find out the real reason why. Perhaps it has something to do with what happened in Godric's Hollow, something or another, and I just think that we will finally find out why Dumbledore trusts Snape so much.

Jamie: Yeah.

Ben: Then we will all trust Snape.

Jamie: And also, he's trusting, Dumbledore, but he isn't stupid, so like, on an issue like Snape, who could potentially swing the entire battle to Voldemort's side or to the good side, I don't think he's going to take any chance at all. So, he's sure of Snape's loyalty. As you said, you know, there's going to be one thing, which convinces us as well, there'll be one thing that Snape did that - because I don't think, you know, Snape obviously, should be extremely loyal to Dumbledore and I don't think Dumbledore could ever take the risk of not really trusting him 100% at all.

Andrew: Couldn't that exactly be the cause of, okay, sure, there's a definite sure-fire reason why Dumbledore trusts Snape, but the reason - it could be the reason why Snape - Dumbledore and Harry - well no, Dumbledore trusts Snape a lot, right? So say - now I'm losing my train of thought.

[Audience laughs]

Andrew: Get back to me in a minute.

Jamie: Okay.

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